Shin is one of the best male mcs in recent years in LN adaptations(This thread has spoilers from LN)

Oct 6, 2021 12:04 PM

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Jul 2018

562319

[quote=Piromysl message=64561951]

Casual_Watcher05 said:

Piromysl said:
Heh. Funny to see you bickering for way over a month and writing entire books each post. Admirable dedication. xD
Anyway, I'm just gonna give me two cents.

Shin might perform his role as a protagonist, but not as a central one. I tolerate him, because I don't expect much from him. Despite everything, he is still a Gary Stu, an ace of a squad who excels at everything, shows little emotion and overall seems like a generic self-insert character. Even his design is nothing original. Characters like him appear in every other LN nowadays, but still, I'd say he presents himself "above average".

Lize on the other hand is a phenomenal character and thankfully she is the central protagonist. Not many writers are able to make a decent female character.

You parroted what you said months ago without providing any proof again.Milize good,Nouzen bad.Milize central protagonist,Nouzen not central protagonist.Because you said so?Where is the proof?People keep bickering because they have actually read the LNs and know how well-written Shin is.

1.The POV in the novel is split 50-50.I'd say even 60-40 in favour of Shin.His standalone volumes are excellent.(Run through the battlefront volume 2 and 3,Fragmetal Neoteny,both LN and manga)

2.It's hilarious when you say nothing about Shin is original including his design when Lena is a literal esdeath copy with a standard attractive military female uniform.

3.Charecters like Shin appear in every LN these days?Name a few of them.Ik you won't be able to.Simply because you don't even know what you are talking about.LN male mcs have genetic bland,vanilla personalities with minimal traits and maximum edginess aka supposed to be relatable so the readers can self project.Shin stands miles above most of them.He isn't supposed to be relatable or a self insert.He's a cold blooded,almost schizophreniac battlebeast.His personality has a lot more common with Heero Yuy than LN mcs except the death threats.(Asato is a gundam fan so big chance)He is the furthest thing from a Gary Stu because he earned everything he has going on now.I can see why you think he's though.Actually competent,great at his job=Gary Stu,Incompetent,bad at everything=relatable.That's how you think about a charecter.

4.LNs on the other hand,every LN has a charecter like Lena,kind,caring,only one who wants to save the male mc from himself(Your point of her pathological altruism is just so laughable after reading the LN)Doesn't make her a bad charecter,but not an "excellent central protagonist" like you keep claiming she is.She offers us readers the outsiders pov in the lives of 86 and Shin and is a moderately competitive person.

5.You are the guy who said in "This Detective is already Dead" that the loli queen is voiced by a loli so anime of the season right?Also called Kokoro from Darling in the Franxx a slut and zero two a goddess right?Your ceiling for a decent female charecter is so low Lena barely has to do anything at all to cross that bar lmao..
Solid piece of advice,go read the light novels instead of trying to pass off your opinions as facts.It's no wonder the two guys with the bad takes about Shin have terrible tastes and keep lying about reading the LNs.We all know you didn't xD

I sincerely apologize for daring my to have my own opinion and I totally deserved to be stalked on the forum and having an obvious joke used as an argument against me.
Nowhere I stated, that my opinion is a fact and, "that Zero-Two is a goddess", so you might want to check that again.
You are textbook example of someone affected with cognitive dissonance.
Your position is even dumber, when taking into account, that I actually praised Shin as an actual bearable protagonist, different that when I was bickering pointlessly with racist OP before (Who seemingly got banned. I wonder why?), because I actually reassessed my opinion.
Maybe I should refrain from voicing my opinion, knowing what kind of people are taking part in this discussion. My bad.

Also, Lize is "generic" because one character in one different show is slightly similar in appearance, but Shin happens to be unique, despite being literally a [url=https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockLightNov]

1.Mention several light novel heroes with the same trait as Shin.

2.Mention and bring out points from the LN upto volume 8 where Shin's emotional development came across to you as something like say other light novel heroes instead of calling him out to be just like other light novel heroes aka a stock LN hero(Shin doesn’t even look anything like them!Have you seen Shirabii's illustrations?Could that be you are visually impaired?Of course that would explain your bad takes).I'll make it easier for you since you keep lying about reading.Ayanokoji Kiyotaka,Hachiman Hikigaya,Natsuki Subaru,Rudeus Greyrat,Touma Kamijou,Klaus,Bell Cranel,Kimizuka Kimihiko,Kirito.These are some of the male leads of the LNs I liked.Not necessarily the male leads.The Light novels.You are free to add more and prove your point by giving me a trait by trait psychoanalysis.As I stated previously Shin has traits from mecha pilots like Setsuna and Heero even Soren Ibrahim.

3.Not only Lena's charecter design is a copy of Esdeath,off the top of my head,Leila from Akito the Exiled(even her uniform is kinda similar to Lena),Relena Peacecraft from MSG:Wings(Notice how they are named similarly too?!).Charecters like Lena(kind,naive,idealistic with a bleeding heart princess who is also an authoritative figure)exist just so they can soothe the traumatised hero's inner turmoil(which Lena does spectacularly)and redeem the oppressors(also we do need a hot military waifu every few years.It has been a hot minute).As I stated before very big chance because the writer Asato is a big gundam fan.So she probably based Lena on Relena and Leila.(I could probably give you more examples,adding those later on)And Asato is a woman.Lena is her self insert as she stated herself.Not Shin.Again wrong lmao.

So far I have proved twice how Lena's charecter is nothing original in terms of traits and looks but you failed to prove how Shin is a light novel stock hero in terms of traits and looks?What's up with that?You could just admit Shin and Lena both displays classical gundam hero and heroine traits and they execute those tropes well or you could call them equally bad for being tropey.But then you have to move away from your whole "Shin basic LN hero,Milize excellent protagonist "dumb take and it would be funny huh?

Your take is simply dumb because you are saying Shin Gary Stu,because he does his job too well.Lize great because she does her job well?!Also you gave it away that you don't read light novels by attaching that stock Photo.Because you couldn’t remember a single male LN protagonist from memory.Your argument is empty af.Also want me to attach several light novel heroines who looks like Lena?The illustrations shiirabi does for other LNs,every single one has a charecter who looks just like Lena with varying lengths of silver hair.Silver haired and eyed LN waifus are dime a dozen but you had no way of knowing that.I am laughing so hard.

Also the op deactivated(MAL shows deactivated as removed.Sorry to burst your victim bubble)Nowhere he's being racist.Calling out Lena's white saviour tendencies isn't racism and calling you out your inability to sympathise with the oppresed side because you have no grasp on the source material or you are a simp are valid too.Your dumb ass reallly went and said " what does that have to do with skin colour"You understand which story you are reading???Where a bunch of coloured folks are discriminated and killed by Lena's people(white skinned silver eyed,silver haired people)because they have darker skin,different coloured hair?!fucking god the stupidity doesn’t end.If you sympathise with anyone it would be the albas.I can just picture you going"Why do coloured people like Shin needs to exist.That’s why the albas had to be racist!"Your dumb ass really trynna call the OP racist for calling out white supremacy and thought you proved something by saying OP got banned for being racist.

Can't wait for your dumb ass to come up with some trendy keywords and an even dumber take(along with trying to play a victim of racism lmao)without actually adding anything to the convo.(Also if Lena has fans like you,my opinion of her is simply lowered than what it used to be)Don't bother me if you have nothing new to add to the convo though.After months you could add nothing to the convo so I doubt you'll be able to now.You won't change my mind and I yours,So sayonara.

removed-userOct 7, 2021 12:46 PM

Oct 8, 2021 5:11 AM

#152

addie1998

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Jun 2020

353

Thigh_Tide said:

The first point you make highlights the author's inability to engender personal development, for instance, as you mention several events that should drastically alter a character's temperament in a well-written piece, but with Shin being a flanderised, empty character, no such changes are made to him. Your second point also shows this, by noting the character settle into the same, repetitive role, another symptom of the author's failure to make him any more profound than a mere archetype. The third comes close to saying something of value, by attributing a short-term goal to him, but this again just highlights that for the majority of the storyline, he had none. This is shallow, plain and simple. And finally, him reading again fails to tell anything of his character, since as you say, he's reading only as a result of his previous, one-note characterisation.

Where you appear to be going wrong is by assuming that facile tropes amount to a well-written character. This is, of course, not the case. As I mentioned earlier, and I referred you towards, Shin's major issues come from his mishandling of his position in the storyline. He is supposed to be the deuteragonist, yet is completely extraneous to much of the narrative. His mindset isn't explored to any degree, we never see any sort of growth, we don't even know what his views on critical aspects of the plot and world.

He's a character with all the depth of a saucer, a bad attempt by a bad creator. But you think that having 2 or 3 stereotypical quirky anime traits equates to good writing, so you're oblivious to that.

Lena was never the main character of the series since the story was centered around shin and the 86ers lena was there to act as a "Deuteragonist", you should have known this in the first place and this is pretty much proves my point you never read the novel nor you understand the story.

Shin is no way in hell an empty character. There is a clear personal development ,his philosophy and moral in life and a lot of events that affects his character so much, heck even the series dive deeper into the psychoanalytical dissection of the charecter. And there is a big difference between having no goal at all vs finding the purpose of oneself while still trying to overcome his trauma.

Also you didn't even know the practicality of the mechs again this proves me point that you're just a fxxking lying bastard.

addie1998Oct 8, 2021 5:42 AM

Oct 8, 2021 7:55 AM

#153

O_T_T

Offline

Feb 2019

2410

addie1998 said:
Lena was never the main character of the series since the story was centered around shin and the 86ers lena was there to act as a "Deuteragonist", you should have known this in the first place and this is pretty much proves my point you never read the novel nor you understand the story.

Lena is the protagonist of the story. She is the character who acts as the audience's point of view and moral compass. Shin is the deuteragonist, being second in importance to the story (or at least supposed to be, as he of course isn't).

Shin is no way in hell an empty character. There is a clear personal development ,his philosophy and moral in life and a lot of events that affects his character so much, heck even the series dive deeper into the psychoanalytical dissection of the charecter. And there is a big difference between having no goal at all vs finding the purpose of oneself while still trying to overcome his trauma.

These are a lot of nonspecific, dubious claims.

What is his personal development, his philosophy and moral in life? Where does the series dive deeper into psychoanalytical analysis? And when does he find the purpose of oneself, and what is it?

If any of this were truly the case, you should have no issues saying where, when and what.

Also you didn't even know the practicality of the mechs again this proves me point that you're just a fxxking lying bastard.

I already talked about the many issues of the vehicles in the other thread. If you have something to say about that, do so there.

Well I for one already loved Lain.

Oct 10, 2021 5:28 PM

#154

addie1998

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Jun 2020

353

Thigh_Tide said:

addie1998 said:
Lena was never the main character of the series since the story was centered around shin and the 86ers lena was there to act as a "Deuteragonist", you should have known this in the first place and this is pretty much proves my point you never read the novel nor you understand the story.

Lena is the protagonist of the story. She is the character who acts as the audience's point of view and moral compass. Shin is the deuteragonist, being second in importance to the story (or at least supposed to be, as he of course isn't).

Shin is no way in hell an empty character. There is a clear personal development ,his philosophy and moral in life and a lot of events that affects his character so much, heck even the series dive deeper into the psychoanalytical dissection of the charecter. And there is a big difference between having no goal at all vs finding the purpose of oneself while still trying to overcome his trauma.

These are a lot of nonspecific, dubious claims.

What is his personal development, his philosophy and moral in life? Where does the series dive deeper into psychoanalytical analysis? And when does he find the purpose of oneself, and what is it?

If any of this were truly the case, you should have no issues saying where, when and what.

Also you didn't even know the practicality of the mechs again this proves me point that you're just a fxxking lying bastard.

I already talked about the many issues of the vehicles in the other thread. If you have something to say about that, do so there.

I would assumed you think this series isn't really a Mecha because this clearly shows how fxxking dumb you are :)

Oct 11, 2021 4:12 AM

#155

O_T_T

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Feb 2019

2410

addie1998 said:

Thigh_Tide said:

Lena is the protagonist of the story. She is the character who acts as the audience's point of view and moral compass. Shin is the deuteragonist, being second in importance to the story (or at least supposed to be, as he of course isn't).

These are a lot of nonspecific, dubious claims.

What is his personal development, his philosophy and moral in life? Where does the series dive deeper into psychoanalytical analysis? And when does he find the purpose of oneself, and what is it?

If any of this were truly the case, you should have no issues saying where, when and what.

I already talked about the many issues of the vehicles in the other thread. If you have something to say about that, do so there.

I would assumed you think this series isn't really a Mecha because this clearly shows how fxxking dumb you are :)

That depends entirely on which definition of "Mecha" you wish to use. At its core, Mecha is regarded to be "science-fiction focusing on giant robots controlled by people within." That fits with the content of 86, but often, though not always, that definition is appended to specify said robots are humanoid, which would disqualify 86 from the genre.

All that is for nought, though, since how is the genre even relevant here? Would it being a Mecha or not being a Mecha in any way alter what I've said about it?

I remind you that you haven't shown what I asked, about your previous spiel of "personal development etc," so that claim must be considered untrue.

Well I for one already loved Lain.

Oct 12, 2021 2:32 PM

#156

MK17_2

Offline

Jan 2019

637

Using PTSD to excuse the bastard's lack of personality is both an immature and offensive misunderstanding of the condition.

If you can get attached to that complete literary failure, you must be as shallow as he is.
.........................,.........................................................................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,...............:..........

Yeah that right there ☝️ 😂 way to go bro. Something as trivial as that has triggered a long ass line of fans. 😂
I wonder if you bothered to watch 86 properly. Paid attention. Finish the season? Ey Nah ey
You can't attack real life traumas like that. Even it's just anime. Ever.
Idk what you're beef is with shin but it sounds petty. We get to watch every bit of what he went through....
There's nothing absurd about him enough to be cause for insult. He's human. Living in a shitty society. I bet you'd be on the other side calling him a pig.

No need to randomly hate out loud on him. It's ridiculous. You can't understand him. No you can't.

Shin is this kickass stoic real life soldier keeping everything and everyone together. And sooooooo much more. It's insanely dope. He's effortlessly attractive I'm sure that bugs you too.

So chill man. If you don't like the dude then aight. Don't bring such insensitive ignorant words that you def don't comprehend, on serious mental health matters here. You'll never get away with it.
Weak minded people Say dumb shit like that.

Oct 16, 2021 1:13 PM

#157

Piromysl

Offline

Jul 2015

12681

MK17_2 said:
Using PTSD to excuse the bastard's lack of personality is both an immature and offensive misunderstanding of the condition.

This happens way often than it should.
SAO fanboys somehow claim that Kirito is a good character, because he went through trauma or some shit, yet we not only saw did not saw him showing any signs of turmoil, but actually willingly exposing himself to more potentially traumatic experiences, which is dumb.

Obviously, Shin was raised on the battlefield and that's the only way of life he knows, so that's a good excuse.
Shin not showing any emotions prevents us from experiencing his turmoil and deciphering his character, and they decided to go with Sasuke, Quiet and edgy.
Shin is still better than most of the LN Stock Heroes tho.

One may argue, that author simply has no experience/knowledge of how PTSD looks like.

Oct 16, 2021 3:24 PM

#158

addie1998

Offline

Jun 2020

353

Piromysl said:

MK17_2 said:
Using PTSD to excuse the bastard's lack of personality is both an immature and offensive misunderstanding of the condition.

This happens way often than it should.
SAO fanboys somehow claim that Kirito is a good character, because he went through trauma or some shit, yet we not only saw did not saw him showing any signs of turmoil, but actually willingly exposing himself to more potentially traumatic experiences, which is dumb.

Obviously, Shin was raised on the battlefield and that's the only way of life he knows, so that's a good excuse.
Shin not showing any emotions prevents us from experiencing his turmoil and deciphering his character, and they decided to go with Sasuke, Quiet and edgy.
Shin is still better than most of the LN Stock Heroes tho.

One may argue, that author simply has no experience/knowledge of how PTSD looks like.

Not my Post!
https://www.reddit.com/r/EightySix/comments/q6nk29/86_through_the_eyes_of_a_combat_vet/

"From a Combat Vet perspective"

Im a rarity. Im in my mid 40s and I like anime. Specific types, mind you and some popular stuff I just can't suffer - Naruto, the Re-zero thing which I tried really hard to like...

I started watching this stuff around the time of Cowboy Bebop, Aeon Flux, and so forth. My favorite is probably Samurai Champloo. Violet Evergarden is up there as well. I suppose I trend to the more 'mature' stuff, but then again, I found girls und panzer to be hilarious. Mostly because of the lengths they went to on the armor.

I'm also a combat vet. I was a ground pounder. A cavalry scout (19D). From that perspective 86 is special. Shin's development, is real. So is Shuga's. Every stick has a mother or some guy that's always coming up with some philosophical shit. Thats Raiden. Shin's mannerisms are spot on for someone who's been there. Especially the way he just kind of stares at people who do stupid shit.

Also, the moment Raiden has in the truck, where the parade mechs are walking by, and his hands start moving instinctively. Yep. Real. The part where they have to be on the field, and not living in safety and peace? That's the feeling nearly every vet has when he still has brothers in the field. Part guilt, part separation anxiety, part being it's what you know and are strangely comfortable with. It's almost like the cereal isle scene in hurt locker.

So much of this anime strikes right home. The difference in the boots in the field vs the people in the walls. Comments like "The people will it" when the people have no fucking idea what it's like in the field, or what their "wants" translate to in reality for the guy behind the trigger. Staff officers being disconnected.

Day to day life in the FOB. All of it. The innuendos. The symbolism of someone who's supposed to be fodder, and frankly stupid / uneducated reading "all quiet on the western front" and the meaning of that. Each individual personality of the unit. Unit pride. The whole concept of being, essentially walking corpses and Raidens "climb the gallows" moment.

The best scenes for me are the ones around daily life at the FOB. That and the recon mission..Its uncanny just how right they got a lot of this...

It's hard to see them as kids, when they don't act like it

Dec 8, 2021 8:38 AM

#159

Kurosakill

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Nov 2019

29

The most boring mc, nothing special, trying to act cool

Mar 25, 2022 12:20 PM

#160

almaghraby_8976

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Feb 2021

6

O_T_T said:

addie1998 said:
Lena was never the main character of the series since the story was centered around shin and the 86ers lena was there to act as a "Deuteragonist", you should have known this in the first place and this is pretty much proves my point you never read the novel nor you understand the story.

Lena is the protagonist of the story. She is the character who acts as the audience's point of view and moral compass. Shin is the deuteragonist, being second in importance to the story (or at least supposed to be, as he of course isn't).

Shin is no way in hell an empty character. There is a clear personal development ,his philosophy and moral in life and a lot of events that affects his character so much, heck even the series dive deeper into the psychoanalytical dissection of the charecter. And there is a big difference between having no goal at all vs finding the purpose of oneself while still trying to overcome his trauma.

These are a lot of nonspecific, dubious claims.

What is his personal development, his philosophy and moral in life? Where does the series dive deeper into psychoanalytical analysis? And when does he find the purpose of oneself, and what is it?

If any of this were truly the case, you should have no issues saying where, when and what.

Also you didn't even know the practicality of the mechs again this proves me point that you're just a fxxking lying bastard.

I already talked about the many issues of the vehicles in the other thread. If you have something to say about that, do so there.

i read this forum 5month ago or something
as the second season finished and i started reading the LN
i recommend watching the second season.
to be honest, while reading this forum, everyone is mean and cursing at each other.
there is character development and you may change your mind
so can you watch it and tell my if you changed your opinon or no

Mar 25, 2022 12:22 PM

#161

almaghraby_8976

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Feb 2021

6

Kurosakill said:
The most boring mc, nothing special, trying to act cool

please try watching the second season you will change your mind

Mar 26, 2022 9:07 PM

#162

Kurosakill

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Nov 2019

29

almaghraby_8976 said:

Kurosakill said:
The most boring mc, nothing special, trying to act cool

please try watching the second season you will change your mind

After finished ep 8 of 2nd season my opinion is still the same

Mar 27, 2022 5:40 AM

#163

almaghraby_8976

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Feb 2021

6

Kurosakill said:

almaghraby_8976 said:

please try watching the second season you will change your mind

After I finished ep 8 of 2nd season my opinion is still the same

11th and 12th episodes have character development. it will take you less than an hour please try and tell me your opinion

Mar 29, 2022 3:26 AM

#164

O_T_T

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Feb 2019

2410

almaghraby_8976 said:

O_T_T said:

Lena is the protagonist of the story. She is the character who acts as the audience's point of view and moral compass. Shin is the deuteragonist, being second in importance to the story (or at least supposed to be, as he of course isn't).

These are a lot of nonspecific, dubious claims.

What is his personal development, his philosophy and moral in life? Where does the series dive deeper into psychoanalytical analysis? And when does he find the purpose of oneself, and what is it?

If any of this were truly the case, you should have no issues saying where, when and what.

I already talked about the many issues of the vehicles in the other thread. If you have something to say about that, do so there.

i read this forum 5month ago or something
as the second season finished and i started reading the LN
i recommend watching the second season.
to be honest, while reading this forum, everyone is mean and cursing at each other.
there is character development and you may change your mind
so can you watch it and tell my if you changed your opinon or no

Why are you quoting me here? I don't care when you read this thread, or the LN, and especially not what you recommend. I've already discussed the issues behind the character, I'm not going to "change my opinion" on that since A) It's not even a matter of opinion to begin with, which you'd know if you read the earlier discussion, and B) You've not made any sort of case why I should, other than the assumption that your ill-informed and ill-written recommendation amounts to a genuine display of quality on the show's part.

If you insist there is character development, then I task you with demonstrating its presence, and while you're at it, that you even understand what it is to begin with. Other than that, don't waste my time necro-ing threads I was done with months ago.

Well I for one already loved Lain.

Mar 29, 2022 8:18 AM

#165

almaghraby_8976

Offline

Feb 2021

6

O_T_T said:

almaghraby_8976 said:

i read this forum 5month ago or something
as the second season finished and i started reading the LN
i recommend watching the second season.
to be honest, while reading this forum, everyone is mean and cursing at each other.
there is character development and you may change your mind
so can you watch it and tell my if you changed your opinon or no

Why are you quoting me here? I don't care when you read this thread, or the LN, and especially not what you recommend. I've already discussed the issues behind the character, I'm not going to "change my opinion" on that since A) It's not even a matter of opinion to begin with, which you'd know if you read the earlier discussion, and B) You've not made any sort of case why I should, other than the assumption that your ill-informed and ill-written recommendation amounts to a genuine display of quality on the show's part.

If you insist there is character development, then I task you with demonstrating its presence, and while you're at it, that you even understand what it is to begin with. Other than that, don't waste my time necro-ing threads I was done with months ago.

eh
looks like i you are mad
i read this thread 5 months ago so i don't remember the details
i apologize if i offended you in any way
to be honest, i want to describe the character development but i have a hard time (in my normal life) describing anything
i apologise again if i mad you mad

Feb 22, 2023 1:36 AM

#166

Piromysl

Offline

Jul 2015

12681

Pretty funny thread. Especially that OTT person, who just wilfully can't take an L.

I also thought Shin wasn't really "second coming of Christ" or anything like that. He was very good character by itself, but still kinda gave off those generic vibes.
But I made those statements BEFORE 2nd cour started airing and Shin becoming defacto a protagonist. This guy might show little to no emotions, but author perfectly managed to convey his inner turmoil, survivor's guilt and the fact, that inside he is constantly screaming. He has more depth than it seems and I think OP should create this thread after anime finishes airing in order to avoid this shitshow.

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Shin is one of the best male mcs in recent years in LN adaptations(This thread has spoilers from LN)

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