BigBoss said: @pkKodama Why not just ask some japanese people rather than make a thread about it in MAL? they will obviously give you better answers. Obviously because I wanted to know what people in mal actually think about it. It's not the answer for the question that I really cared about. What -Mashiro said is pretty much a common sense, everyone knows that. |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
Comic_Sans said: Why don't they speak normally like they speak in anime? OP, I will let you in on a secretAnd I'll let you into another secret |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
| Lolno That's like saying Americans talk the way the characters in The Simpsons do |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| Based on what little Japanese I can speak, my views are that Japanese people have a very high degree of respect for the listener and they are like super cautious while talking to others so that they use "ano" to find out if the listener is angered/bored by them. While it may seem strange to us, thats perfectly normal for them. And don't forget the honorifics :P |
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Yumehara said: I've never thought that as Japanese (*´っω･。`*) I think we don't want to express ourselves directly because sometimes we offend others. So we choose apropriate words. That's why we don't often say an honest opinions And yet I tell you that whatever it may be, your honest and noble opinion should be much appreciated by everyone ^^ |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
No that's not, because japanese anime is not for retarded kids like american cartoons are. |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
pkKodama said: BigBoss said: @pkKodama Why not just ask some japanese people rather than make a thread about it in MAL? they will obviously give you better answers. Obviously because I wanted to know what people in mal actually think about it. It's not the answer for the question that I really cared about. What -Mashiro said is pretty much a common sense, everyone knows that. Dunno about that one, more like you are fishing for "fights" I guess but hey, no one can stop you so you do you. |
 "One must die and one must live. No victory, no defeat. The survivor will carry on the fight. It is our destiny... The one who survives will inherit the title of Boss. And the one who inherits the title of Boss will face an existence of endless battle." |
pkKodama said: Yes, it isNo that's not, It is a well known fact that Japanese anime dialogue ≠ Japanese real life dialogue because japanese anime is not for retarded kids like american cartoons are. Nice b8 |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Comic_Sans said: pkKodama said: Yes, it isNo that's not, It is a well known fact that Japanese anime dialogue ≠ Japanese real life dialogue because japanese anime is not for retarded kids like american cartoons are. Nice b8That's not a bait, that's a fact, and if you disagree with that you're in the wrong place. |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
pkKodama said: So you do agree that Japanese anime dialogue ≠ Japanese real life dialogue?That's not a bait, that's a fact, and if you disagree with that you're in the wrong place. |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
BigBoss said: pkKodama said: Obviously because I wanted to know what people in mal actually think about it. It's not the answer for the question that I really cared about. What -Mashiro said is pretty much a common sense, everyone knows that. Dunno about that one, more like you are fishing for "fights" I guess but hey, no one can stop you so you do you. You are clearly the one who came here "fishing for fights". |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
pkKodama said: BigBoss said: Dunno about that one, more like you are fishing for "fights" I guess but hey, no one can stop you so you do you. You are clearly the one who came here "fishing for fights". Oh you mean like what you are doing literally right now on this second page?.......ok |
"One must die and one must live. No victory, no defeat. The survivor will carry on the fight. It is our destiny... The one who survives will inherit the title of Boss. And the one who inherits the title of Boss will face an existence of endless battle." |
| [quote=flannan message=46515726] Neferr said: people who speak Russian sound angry when they speak. It's the first time I heard about it. Is it true? From my experience, some yes. The older ones with the more raspy voices sound angry. Younger ones tend to sound normal although there are exceptions. |
Taiga is Knowledge, Taiga is Power, Taiga is Life |
| Damn, definitely one of the weirdest threads I've seen. The things people convince themselves of... |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
pkKodama said: Zefyris said: *roll eyes* No, I'm not an "expert", but what's with this thread? You're intermediate in Japanese yet you can't make a difference between "ano"/"sono"/"desukedo" and striving to find what they want to say (btw when asked question like that you can really strive to explain exactly what you're thinking of something, there is nothing surprising or weird about it)? Especially desukedo/desuga has absolutely nothing to do with this, but could it be, you're unaware that this video is clearly a very natural flow of a japanese conversation? It's just like the multiple and very noticeable "hai" that you can hear many times in that video, you won't see peoples in anime speak like that. You know why? Most anime are adaptation of written original material, and you don't write like you speak. I'm sure it's the same in your mother language. That's why it's happening ImO. Oh my god, just no. Your thread is a proof that this doesn't work. If you're unable to see that conversation as natural, this shows how much your experience from anime is completely unable to teach you correctly. You should read what I wrote again before being rude like that. "You're intermediate in Japanese yet you can't make a difference between "ano"/"sono"/"desukedo" " When did I ever say that, wtf are you talking about. I can speak fluently both in my mother language and japanese. And no that conversation was not natural, Nakata Jouji was almost, I dare say, but Fukuyama Jun is far away from it. I can speak much better than that. You don't even know me, how can you say that it didn't teach me correctly? I can clearly understand what they are saying, so much for me to be able to see that they are making a thousand roundabouts, and that just make me want to tell them to get to the point already. And in any case it's undeniable that Nakata Jouji and Fukuyama Jun do definitely speak much more fluently when they are acting. And seriously, "Most anime are adaptation of written original material, and you don't write like you speak.", stop telling me that, I made this thread knowing it, but my point is just that the difference when acting and when talking in real life seems to be much stronger in japanese than in other languages. It's just as -Mashiro said, "I guess you could say that the Japanese are a lot more tactful and considerate when they speak. The entire culture is based on a specific etiquette that exists solely for the sake of avoiding any sort of confrontation or argument.". No, that's not what I meant. I mean that I can't believe you think those three "words" are actually here to mark the fact that the speaker is striving to find what he want to say. And no, Fukuyama Jun is speaking pretty much like you would IRL. So you can speak much better than a native fluent in his own language while being intermediary ? interesting. Do you realize what you're saying? You may need to stop watching anime as a reference to how to speak in Japanese. I've spoken with tons of Japanese native, and that video is far closer to it than any anime you can watch. But then again you did too it seems, so you know that. So why are you so adamant in thinking it's weird to have peoples talking differently than they write? That language is like that. And they don't struggle with their words, that's just their way to speak. get over it, Japanese peoples speak like that, not like anime. And this does include what you call "making a thousand roundabouts". I can say it didn't teach you correctly if you feel that natural flow of a Japanese conversation isn't as natural as anime conversation, yes. It may have taught you properly the listening part (since you say you understand everything, so that part is cool), but if you talk like peoples in anime, well.. I would not say that part is correctly learned then. Well I'm telling it to you because it's true and it's on topic though. And yes, it's partially due to etiquette, being tactful and the like, so if you understand that, why do you think they're struggling to say what they want? |
ZefyrisJun 17, 2016 10:30 AM
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pkKodama said: OtakuDaikun said: A Japanese pen pal of mine once told me not to learn Japanese from anime. I understand what he meant but there's still a lot that I've picked up on over the years. The difficulty trying to explain things, that tone and manner of speaking, is far more accurate to how the average Japanese person would speak. Yeah, I tell you that your friend was totally wrong, you should definitely learn japanese watching anime, without subs of course, and reserving a time every day to study the grammar, I did it and it worked perfectly well with me. You don't really need to go to a japanese course, but it definitely helps a lot as a motivation. His point was that people in Japan don't talk like anime characters. That said, there's a ton that can be learned from anime, for sure. In his mind it's like telling someone not to learn English from King of the Hill. |
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Zefyris said: pkKodama said: You should read what I wrote again before being rude like that. "You're intermediate in Japanese yet you can't make a difference between "ano"/"sono"/"desukedo" " When did I ever say that, wtf are you talking about. I can speak fluently both in my mother language and japanese. And no that conversation was not natural, Nakata Jouji was almost, I dare say, but Fukuyama Jun is far away from it. I can speak much better than that. You don't even know me, how can you say that it didn't teach me correctly? I can clearly understand what they are saying, so much for me to be able to see that they are making a thousand roundabouts, and that just make me want to tell them to get to the point already. And in any case it's undeniable that Nakata Jouji and Fukuyama Jun do definitely speak much more fluently when they are acting. And seriously, "Most anime are adaptation of written original material, and you don't write like you speak.", stop telling me that, I made this thread knowing it, but my point is just that the difference when acting and when talking in real life seems to be much stronger in japanese than in other languages. It's just as -Mashiro said, "I guess you could say that the Japanese are a lot more tactful and considerate when they speak. The entire culture is based on a specific etiquette that exists solely for the sake of avoiding any sort of confrontation or argument.". No, that's not what I meant. I mean that I can't believe you think those three "words" are actually here to mark the fact that the speaker is striving to find what he want to say. And no, Fukuyama Jun is speaking pretty much like you would IRL. So you can speak much better than a native fluent in his own language while being intermediary ? interesting. Do you realize what you're saying? You may need to stop watching anime as a reference to how to speak in Japanese. I've spoken with tons of Japanese native, and that video is far closer to it than any anime you can watch. But then again you did too it seems, so you know that. So why are you so adamant in thinking it's weird to have peoples talking differently than they write? That language is like that. And they don't struggle with their words, that's just their way to speak. get over it, Japanese peoples speak like that, not like anime. And this does include what you call "making a thousand roundabouts". I can say it didn't teach you correctly if you feel that natural flow of a Japanese conversation isn't as natural as anime conversation, yes. It may have taught you properly the listening part (since you say you understand everything, so that part is cool), but if you talk like peoples in anime, well.. I would not say that part is correctly learned then. Well I'm telling it to you because it's true and it's on topic though. And yes, it's partially due to etiquette, being tactful and the like, so if you understand that, why do you think they're struggling to say what they want? Oh, when I saw your name I thought you would be rude again, that's not what happened and I thank you for that. "And no, Fukuyama Jun is speaking pretty much like you would IRL. So you can speak much better than a native fluent in his own language while being intermediary ? interesting. Do you realize what you're saying? " It's not a big deal, but why are you calling me an intermediary? I guess it's impossible to show you how I talk in real life, and I know it sounds arrogant to say that I "speak much better than a native fluent in his own language", especially when we're talking about Fukuyama Jun, who is one of my favorites, being Nakata Jouji my all time favorite voice actor, but all I can tell you is that I have a lot of confidence in my speaking skills and I really think I actually speak more fluently than Fukuyama in that interview, because I actually can speak without stammering, but then again, it's just childish to use it as an argument since I can't actually show it to you, so let's change all that to just "Based on what I understand as what means to speak a language in a normal way, Fukuyama Jun does not sound normal". I do talk to japanese people in real life, I want to make it clear, the usual way how native speakers talk is not the way how people talk in anime, if you want to call it the natural way of speaking japanese. But the way how they were talking in that table in Gankutsuou is pretty much the way how a family talk, at least in the main european languages, as far as I know from my own experience and study, and the way how they were speaking in that interview just doesn't sound natural. You can say that the unnatural way for me is actually the natural way and I should just deal with it. But there's a reason why Nakata Jouji was paid to speak in that way in Gankutsuou, which was an anime mainly intended for the late night adult audience in 2004. Don't you agree with me that he does sound more polite, refined and majestic acting as Edmond Dantes than when he is talking in the interview? Tell me with which one would you like to talk in real life? Which one sounds more cool and interesting to talk with? If someone started to talk with you with that voice, would you tell him that his japanese is wrong? "And yes, it's partially due to etiquette, being tactful and the like, so if you understand that, why do you think they're struggling to say what they want?" Because they do sound like they are struggling to say what they want. You can definitely be polite, gentle, amiable, and interesting without the need of stuttering while talking, I know some english speakers also do that, but it sounds much more forced with not only some japanese speakers, but most of them, as far as I know. Maybe you're right, maybe that's the right way of speaking japanese and I should just deal with that, But it surely doesn't sound natural for me, and I just wanted to share my opinion in this thread and see what other people actually think about it, I guess I'm the minority, and that's all. |
ColtBuntlineJun 17, 2016 1:23 PM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
| I am not sure what you are talking about. I have had conversations with different Japanese before in both English and Japanese and they dont have any trouble. You cant expect people to speak fluently like they do in anime because they are acting which they are given scripts and they redo it if they dont get it right. People, everyone can have trouble explaining something inn everyday convos. |
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Zilf said: Seriously even western animation and movie sounds different to me. the nuance. Yea, you know they all sound like fictional characters. It's pretty well the same thing with anime :P pkKodama said: Otaku-Gunso said: Heh if you think they speak normally in anime then you must not talk to that many REAL Japanese people :P I think many people will often tell you that most Japanese do NOT talk like that in real life. As far as sounding like they are trying to explain something, I watch enough japanese news and things to know what you're talking about. Maybe they all secretly have social anxiety :P Well, that's the point, I actually do talk with that many real japanese people. And sometimes I can't help thinking that maybe they do have social anxiety. You can say that that's how most japanese speak, but I'll never speak in that stupid way if I have the ability to say exactly what I want to say without the need of adding filler words every 2 seconds and sounding like someone who has social anxiety as you said. ... I see, and yet for someone who speaks to REAL japanese people on a regular basis don't you think you should be asking them directly about this??? I mean I can't really help you in that area I'm just another english native speaking person. Also that's kinda messed up that you called it stupid though. I mean I'm a brass person and say exactly whats on my mind but I can't help it if others don't. I especially can't help it if that person comes from a country where being polite is the most important thing over all either. pkKodama said: Orevataf said: Well to be honest, since I speak Japanese every day here in Japan, pausing while thinking how best to express yourself is completely natural. In fact, I do it in all the languages I speak, sometimes you are asked a question and go Hmmm... before you answer because you want to think about how best to answer. Let's say someone asks me a question I'm not expecting say, "What kind of women do you like?". There's no way I'd be able to answer immediately. In English, I'd probably pause a while or say, "Let's see... what kinda girl do I like...". In Japanese maybe I'd say... 好きなタイプですか？そうですね。。。and then answer. It is a necessary speaking device and is not limited to Japanese people. Yes, that's perfectly natural, but if you keep repeating そうですね。。。 every time that same person asks you a question, that will become really annoying. I think many times when you ask someone a question and they don't know how to answer it they'll either say nothing or answer in a generic manner. Saying something like "I see" or "ohh ok" is not totally out of the norm especially when you don't know what to say. I like to call it the magic conversation filler :P |
Otaku-GunsoJun 18, 2016 6:50 AM
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