New
May 27, 2016 5:49 AM
#251
kamisama751 said: no, becaus it also used as plot device too very often, not simply settings and beckground story only... for more fair comparison, zombie series that simply using zombie as monsters like HoTD (thou in the end never answered) sure they don't need necessary detail information about zombie itself.. but if something that zombie theme actually have role more than simply being monster like sankarea, or even semi of both like i am hero or kabaneri sure, the explanation about it is very necessary and how it can happened that way because it affected directly to the plot...Kuma said: Kreion said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: Kuma said: yes plot hole is plot hole, but is it make series good or bad? sure, you can use it as critics.. but if you think "your plot hole" is the one determined a series being good or bad in genereal, i call bullshit on that... A plot hole is a plot hole. It makes the plot worse. If something is bad or not is also based on other things. Don't mind me, I just want to give this piece of information. But how do you define a plot hole? What do we mean when we say 'it doesn't make any sense'? wikipedia said: In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.[1] Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. Do you need more?.............................................................. That's still a little vague. One man's missing information is another man's info dump. To be honest I don't find anything missing there. Inconsistencies are just inconsistencies, there is nothing debateable that it isn't and so on. The only way to bring you more near to it might be giving a few examples but that's it. I had a lot of debates about whether Future Diary has plotholes. Many wanted to know how Reisuke got his poisons. It was just unnecessary information for me. The series set itself up as fantastical and bizarre, so a kid with poisons fits. No need for more info. How I see your perspective on it is you don't care but that doesn't negate it being one. Actually, the one subjective aspect of a plot hole is how much it affects your enjoyment of the show. For me it entirely depends on the show and the plot hole, some need that explanation for me to stay immersed and some don't. For example, I don't need extreme specifics on the reasoning of the Mushi from Mushishi, MUSHISHI HAS BIG PLOT HOLE on mushi sistem and environtment... but it doesn't meake it less entertaining because that's totaly not the focus in the series... same goes with many series like recently eresed... sure you can determined a plot hole, but you can't determined how much plot hole affected to series overall... The Mushi is part of the setting. If that really count as a plot hole then don't you think so should every zombie/... show? |
May 27, 2016 5:57 AM
#252
Personally, I don't like animes that has an art style where lots of going on, lots of colours etc like Bakemonogatari and also serious style line Steins Gate. Plot of these are good but the art really throw me off. I don't like where there is just too much boob or nudity, female/male parts showing with no plot whatsoever or a really dumb plot like Seikon no Qwaser, but that's obvious. I don't like animes with really child like art style; Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica. And I don't like animes where the main antagonist (male) is really stupid and just ignores every sign. With Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo, I was going mental over main guy's stupidity. As far as pacing goes, I'm fine with both slow or fast as long as the plot is good. I don't really mind it. |
May 27, 2016 8:39 AM
#253
kamisama751 said: i am simply saying that no, mushi in mushishi is not as simple as zombie in HOTD... if anything, it would be zombie in sankarea... so yes, it should be important, but since it's not the focus, it's totaly out of question asking about that..Kuma said: kamisama751 said: Kuma said: Kreion said: thank you. finnaly someone said this...kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: Kuma said: yes plot hole is plot hole, but is it make series good or bad? sure, you can use it as critics.. but if you think "your plot hole" is the one determined a series being good or bad in genereal, i call bullshit on that... A plot hole is a plot hole. It makes the plot worse. If something is bad or not is also based on other things. Don't mind me, I just want to give this piece of information. But how do you define a plot hole? What do we mean when we say 'it doesn't make any sense'? wikipedia said: In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.[1] Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. Do you need more?.............................................................. That's still a little vague. One man's missing information is another man's info dump. To be honest I don't find anything missing there. Inconsistencies are just inconsistencies, there is nothing debateable that it isn't and so on. The only way to bring you more near to it might be giving a few examples but that's it. I had a lot of debates about whether Future Diary has plotholes. Many wanted to know how Reisuke got his poisons. It was just unnecessary information for me. The series set itself up as fantastical and bizarre, so a kid with poisons fits. No need for more info. How I see your perspective on it is you don't care but that doesn't negate it being one. Actually, the one subjective aspect of a plot hole is how much it affects your enjoyment of the show. For me it entirely depends on the show and the plot hole, some need that explanation for me to stay immersed and some don't. For example, I don't need extreme specifics on the reasoning of the Mushi from Mushishi, MUSHISHI HAS BIG PLOT HOLE on mushi sistem and environtment... but it doesn't meake it less entertaining because that's totaly not the focus in the series... same goes with many series like recently eresed... sure you can determined a plot hole, but you can't determined how much plot hole affected to series overall... The Mushi is part of the setting. If that really count as a plot hole then don't you think so should every zombie/... show? To be honest, I can't understand your viewpoint abut this at all. But that's okay. |
May 28, 2016 10:08 AM
#254
Kreion said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: Kuma said: yes plot hole is plot hole, but is it make series good or bad? sure, you can use it as critics.. but if you think "your plot hole" is the one determined a series being good or bad in genereal, i call bullshit on that... A plot hole is a plot hole. It makes the plot worse. If something is bad or not is also based on other things. Don't mind me, I just want to give this piece of information. But how do you define a plot hole? What do we mean when we say 'it doesn't make any sense'? wikipedia said: In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.[1] Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. Do you need more?.............................................................. That's still a little vague. One man's missing information is another man's info dump. To be honest I don't find anything missing there. Inconsistencies are just inconsistencies, there is nothing debateable that it isn't and so on. The only way to bring you more near to it might be giving a few examples but that's it. I had a lot of debates about whether Future Diary has plotholes. Many wanted to know how Reisuke got his poisons. It was just unnecessary information for me. The series set itself up as fantastical and bizarre, so a kid with poisons fits. No need for more info. How I see your perspective on it is you don't care but that doesn't negate it being one. Actually, the one subjective aspect of a plot hole is how much it affects your enjoyment of the show. For me it entirely depends on the show and the plot hole, some need that explanation for me to stay immersed and some don't. For example, I don't need extreme specifics on the reasoning of the Mushi from Mushishi, but one of the most annoying plot holes I have ever experienced was from Man of Steel (not an anime but it's related to the point so) where a species with the technology to control black holes managed to mine their own planet to the point of destruction...I can't stand that gap in logic if you're trying to sell the movie to me as a serious sci-fi. Ultimately I would say that it the more important part of a subjective plot hole - the amount it matters depends a lot on the nature of the series and the nature of the missing information. A supposedly smart series will probably require more explanation than an OTT series which is displaying a universe far more flexible than our own. It's more about the narrative consistency which is what keeps your suspension of disbelief going and all people kind of have different scales for that anyway. So whilst I agree a plot hole is a plot hole, there is a bit more nuance to it than that. A smart series doesn't require more explanation. High amount of details doesn't equal depth or intelligence. A smart series only includes the necessary stuff. |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
May 28, 2016 11:11 AM
#255
May 28, 2016 11:19 AM
#256
I usually go on about how dark and serious AoT is even if that doesn't mean it's good or represent the show very well. I kind of have to, otherwise people think I'm watching animated child porn when I bring up anime. |
May 28, 2016 11:32 AM
#257
TheBrainintheJar said: Kreion said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: Kuma said: yes plot hole is plot hole, but is it make series good or bad? sure, you can use it as critics.. but if you think "your plot hole" is the one determined a series being good or bad in genereal, i call bullshit on that... A plot hole is a plot hole. It makes the plot worse. If something is bad or not is also based on other things. Don't mind me, I just want to give this piece of information. But how do you define a plot hole? What do we mean when we say 'it doesn't make any sense'? wikipedia said: In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.[1] Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. Do you need more?.............................................................. That's still a little vague. One man's missing information is another man's info dump. To be honest I don't find anything missing there. Inconsistencies are just inconsistencies, there is nothing debateable that it isn't and so on. The only way to bring you more near to it might be giving a few examples but that's it. I had a lot of debates about whether Future Diary has plotholes. Many wanted to know how Reisuke got his poisons. It was just unnecessary information for me. The series set itself up as fantastical and bizarre, so a kid with poisons fits. No need for more info. How I see your perspective on it is you don't care but that doesn't negate it being one. Actually, the one subjective aspect of a plot hole is how much it affects your enjoyment of the show. For me it entirely depends on the show and the plot hole, some need that explanation for me to stay immersed and some don't. For example, I don't need extreme specifics on the reasoning of the Mushi from Mushishi, but one of the most annoying plot holes I have ever experienced was from Man of Steel (not an anime but it's related to the point so) where a species with the technology to control black holes managed to mine their own planet to the point of destruction...I can't stand that gap in logic if you're trying to sell the movie to me as a serious sci-fi. Ultimately I would say that it the more important part of a subjective plot hole - the amount it matters depends a lot on the nature of the series and the nature of the missing information. A supposedly smart series will probably require more explanation than an OTT series which is displaying a universe far more flexible than our own. It's more about the narrative consistency which is what keeps your suspension of disbelief going and all people kind of have different scales for that anyway. So whilst I agree a plot hole is a plot hole, there is a bit more nuance to it than that. A smart series doesn't require more explanation. High amount of details doesn't equal depth or intelligence. A smart series only includes the necessary stuff. But what about when a show tries to present itself as smart yet misses those "necessary stuff"? That's where the plot hole stuff comes. The show tries to present itself as something serious, yet it's so badly written that you can't take it seriously. A.k.a. you can enjoy the trainwreck that is Code Geass R2 but it's still a trainwreck. |
But does the heart have the right perspective? |
May 28, 2016 11:44 PM
#258
KoreaWS said: TheBrainintheJar said: Kreion said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: TheBrainintheJar said: kamisama751 said: Kuma said: yes plot hole is plot hole, but is it make series good or bad? sure, you can use it as critics.. but if you think "your plot hole" is the one determined a series being good or bad in genereal, i call bullshit on that... A plot hole is a plot hole. It makes the plot worse. If something is bad or not is also based on other things. Don't mind me, I just want to give this piece of information. But how do you define a plot hole? What do we mean when we say 'it doesn't make any sense'? wikipedia said: In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.[1] Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. Do you need more?.............................................................. That's still a little vague. One man's missing information is another man's info dump. To be honest I don't find anything missing there. Inconsistencies are just inconsistencies, there is nothing debateable that it isn't and so on. The only way to bring you more near to it might be giving a few examples but that's it. I had a lot of debates about whether Future Diary has plotholes. Many wanted to know how Reisuke got his poisons. It was just unnecessary information for me. The series set itself up as fantastical and bizarre, so a kid with poisons fits. No need for more info. How I see your perspective on it is you don't care but that doesn't negate it being one. Actually, the one subjective aspect of a plot hole is how much it affects your enjoyment of the show. For me it entirely depends on the show and the plot hole, some need that explanation for me to stay immersed and some don't. For example, I don't need extreme specifics on the reasoning of the Mushi from Mushishi, but one of the most annoying plot holes I have ever experienced was from Man of Steel (not an anime but it's related to the point so) where a species with the technology to control black holes managed to mine their own planet to the point of destruction...I can't stand that gap in logic if you're trying to sell the movie to me as a serious sci-fi. Ultimately I would say that it the more important part of a subjective plot hole - the amount it matters depends a lot on the nature of the series and the nature of the missing information. A supposedly smart series will probably require more explanation than an OTT series which is displaying a universe far more flexible than our own. It's more about the narrative consistency which is what keeps your suspension of disbelief going and all people kind of have different scales for that anyway. So whilst I agree a plot hole is a plot hole, there is a bit more nuance to it than that. A smart series doesn't require more explanation. High amount of details doesn't equal depth or intelligence. A smart series only includes the necessary stuff. But what about when a show tries to present itself as smart yet misses those "necessary stuff"? That's where the plot hole stuff comes. The show tries to present itself as something serious, yet it's so badly written that you can't take it seriously. A.k.a. you can enjoy the trainwreck that is Code Geass R2 but it's still a trainwreck. Most smart shows I've seen required little explanation. The 'intelligence' was in themes and exploration of ideas. |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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