Opinion on the baltic states. (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania)

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Jan 2009

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deadoptimist said:
You all joke about Russia and invasions, but in the end such sentiments make people's lives worse.

I can relate to this. Ultimately, if you are from an ethnic Minority, at one Point or another, you are bound to feel negative Sentiments from the indigenous Majority (unless the respective Peoples are Friends with each other) towards the Minority, especially when there have been negative Cases in which the Mother Country had to resort to Force to help its Natives in foreign Countries to protect them from the Harassment.
However, that is being considered as an Invasion by the other, indigenous People(s), so the Harassment towards the Minority increases which in Turn increases the Want to protect it by the Mother Country and thus the Vicious Circle continues.

At this Point, I could see only 3 Solutions:
1) The Minority is ex-pulsed or supported into either Migration towards their Country of Origin or Assimilation towards the Culture of their current Father Land.
2) The respective Countries become friendly with each other and guarantee the respective ethnic Minority the same Protection and Rights, while trying to put any Fight between them towards an End.
3) War, but I hope and doubt it'll come to that.

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Aug 23, 2015 3:20 PM

#53

deadoptimist

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Noboru said:
Ultimately, if you are from an ethnic Minority, at one Point or another, you are bound to feel negative Sentiments from the indigenous Majority <...>

At this Point, I could see only 3 Solutions:
1) The Minority is ex-pulsed or supported into either Migration towards their Country of Origin or Assimilation towards the Culture of their current Father Land.
2) The respective Countries become friendly with each other and guarantee the respective ethnic Minority the same Protection and Rights, while trying to put any Fight between them towards an End.
3) War, but I hope and doubt it'll come to that.

Yeah, I don't think that it's likely that there will be war over Baltics.

I don't wish the first option on those people. Our program of integration for the "former compatriots" isn't working too well. Also it kind of stinks, especially in light of the current policy of multiculturalism in Europe. They wouldn't want to leave their homes or abandon their identity, and considering that the younger non-citizens were born there in the same way that the citizens did, it seems strange. But it's, probably, what they try to do.

The second variant doesn't look plausible, and it didn't look so even before the current crysis. There're too many factors at work, also it has become kind of a trend. Besides our unfortunate historical and political reality, there's also this thing that after the fall of the USSR most ex-Soviet or ex-Eastern Block countries sought new political self-identity in nationalism of various degrees. And Russians always end up as the unfavorable side of the comparision. It's natural, cause it's easy, but the result looks worrying (and breeds even more tension).

Aug 23, 2015 4:34 PM

#54

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Jan 2009

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^I don't wish the first Option on those People, either. It should be enough imho if an ethnic Minority can integrate within the Country. By that I'm referring in the first Place to speak the Language fluently, to act and behave like someone from the ethnic Majority in Public and to accept the respective Country's Law and Order.
What someone does and believes in Private (as long as it doesn't harm others), shouldn't upset anyone. Problems usually stem from public Displays of such and thus it's always wise to at least give the Appearance of the ethnic Majority on the Outside. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Sooner or later, I think it's in both Europe's and Russia's best Interest to stop any Hostilities between each other and to form a common Economic Area.
100 Years ago, it would've been unimaginable for England, France, Germany and Italy to be a Part of a shared economical and political Union, yet (despite the Problems) it happened. So Chances that there will be at least an Economic Area with Russia are not that low.

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Aug 23, 2015 6:16 PM

#55

Diginarcissa

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Jan 2015

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Konte said:
Hell NO.... nah... I will prefer to be in a Russians side.....They're friendly and all... and russian girls is the best !!!! * eternal hate for Polish people *

still salty coz only the Poles can raid Moscow?

Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race

Aug 23, 2015 9:08 PM

#56

_Nemrod_

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Apr 2014

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Noboru said:

Tourist said:
I think those countries are very vulnerable to being invaded by Russia

But those Countries are both in EU and NATO, so I doubt that Russia would try to do anything to them

The movements of the Russian army are far from being a "parade".
There is a possibility that Russia does nothing, but the risks are big.
On European soil, the US does not have the ability to slow an invasion Russian and the US polits knows that very well.

Noboru said:

Moving is the first thing that I think when to remember those countries because Europe (especially eastern) is not a safe place right now.

North Eastern Central Europe might become a safer Place in the Future thanks to the sheer Mass of Immigrants/Refugees.

I doubt it.
Europe, Asia and Africa are not Latin America (born from the merger), in other words their cultures lack the capacity absover people from other races.
On the other hand, one thing is to get immigration of Hispanic America (USA case) and quite another to receive Muslim immigration (Europe case).
The truth is that although Europe escape from a Russian invasion, it is difficult to avoid a future civil war with the Muslim world......." We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades" Muammar Gaddafi

_Nemrod_Aug 23, 2015 9:32 PM

Aug 24, 2015 1:25 AM

#57

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Tourist said:
The movements of the Russian army are far from being a "parade".
There is a possibility that Russia does nothing, but the risks are big.

While that's true, I don't see any Reasons why Russia would want to risk out a full-fledged WW3. At most, it looks like those "Parades" are meant to remind the other Military Block to not mess around too much within it's Sphere of Interest.

I doubt it.
Europe, Asia and Africa are not Latin America (born from the merger), in other words their cultures lack the capacity absover people from other races.

Didn't write that probably above. The Baltic States might become safer because there won't be (much) Immigration and/or many Asylum Seekers from the Muslim World.
Other than that, Muslim is not a Race, but rather a Culture and Religion.

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Aug 24, 2015 1:31 AM

#58

Heavy-Maetel

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Mar 2014

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I find Estonian to be an interesting language.

Aug 24, 2015 3:24 AM

#59

deadoptimist

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Noboru said:
^I don't wish the first Option on those People, either. It should be enough imho if an ethnic Minority can integrate within the Country. By that I'm referring in the first Place to speak the Language fluently, to act and behave like someone from the ethnic Majority in Public and to accept the respective Country's Law and Order.
<...>
Sooner or later, I think it's in both Europe's and Russia's best Interest to stop any Hostilities between each other and to form a common Economic Area.

I think what Russia is missing is a Form of "Genuflection" in which Putin (or whoever will be President after him) would officially apologize for the Atrocities the Soviet Union and its Satellite States have done at its Command.

Yeah, of course, nobody should be allowed to break law or public order because of their ethnicity. Though I think that the idea of cultural integration is not universally popular (or working) these days. In the case that we are discussing, though, I think it's hardly the biggest problem, since the two cultures are not too far apart. I mean both are Christian at least.
The language is a bit trickier though. There's this question of secondary state languages, which can be seen as viable, if we think that Russians comprise about 20% of Lithuania's population.

I'd like to see the relations between Europe and Russia becoming warmer. But it didn't work out in 90-s for some reason. Putin was all for integration and friendship before 2007, as it seems.

I guess, in the end there will be some form of genuflection. But a lot of things should coincide for it to happen (unless Russia will be forced to do it by other countries; damn, I hope not). As of now Russians don't have a unified opinion on it anyway, every ex-Soviet or ex-Eastern Block country has its own version of history, and often this version ends up dumping everything bad on Russia. It has reached such a degree that there is a popular opinion both inside our society and outside it that we should all be killed outright (I am so not exaggerating, there're even parties whose leaders express opinions like that), so it's kind of volatile nowadays.
For Russians the best way would be to find a new idea/identity and discard the past dispassionately.
But in all honestly it looks more realistic that the reconciliation would come after the coming big war with islamic terrorism. si-igh.

Anyways, I kinda feel bad talking about Russia in the thread about Baltics. They have enough of tasty bread dishes, good milk products, Middle Age architecture and pretty ornaments to be fawned over in a Casual section without me dragging politics in the topic.

deadoptimistAug 24, 2015 3:33 AM

Aug 24, 2015 6:26 AM

#60

_Nemrod_

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Noboru said:
While that's true, I don't see any Reasons why Russia would want to risk out a full-fledged WW3. At most, it looks like those "Parades" are meant to remind the other Military Block to not mess around too much within it's Sphere of Interest.

Both NATO and Russia are redeploying its troops in strategic way (That is no small thing). It is difficult to say that Europe is a safe place in that context.

Noboru said:
Didn't write that probably above. The Baltic States might become safer because there won't be (much) Immigration and/or many Asylum Seekers from the Muslim World.
Other than that, Muslim is not a Race, but rather a Culture and Religion.

It was not my intention to say that Muslim is a race (it is clear that they are not).
It was better to add that Europe is not capable absover people from other cultures for avoiding an incorrect interpretation.
It is not necessary that there remains massive immigration. Just look at the birth rates of Europeans and Muslims for a glimpse of the near future that awaits the Old World.
It is obvious that the Socialists are giving Europe to Islam. Communist dictatorships need strong internal conflicts for take place and the Islam precipitated that process.

Aug 24, 2015 6:57 AM

#61

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Jan 2009

14537

deadoptimist said:
The language is a bit trickier though. There's this question of secondary state languages, which can be seen as viable, if we think that Russians comprise about 20% of Lithuania's population.

That depends on whether a secondary, Official Language would be seen as necessary or whether it's enough to have Street Signs and Place Names in different Languages to at least make them feel at Home.

Anyways, I kinda feel bad talking about Russia in the thread about Baltics. They have enough of tasty bread dishes, good milk products, Middle Age architecture and pretty ornaments to be fawned over in a Casual section without me dragging politics in the topic.

Same here, I don't want to drag this out further, so I'm shortening it a lot.
The Buildings in the Capitals do look beautiful and eventually, I'd like to visit, but there's no actual Spark to do it by myself. It's nice too look at Pictures and getting to know about different Countries from the Experiences from People, who visited or live(d) there.

Tourist said:
Both NATO and Russia are redeploying its troops in strategic way (That is no small thing). It is difficult to say that Europe is a safe place in that context.

I still find the Situation much safer than during the Cold War. It's true that it's not completely safe in that Regard, however, the Chances seem to be much lower than they used to be. At least, that's my Impression.

Talking about Muslims and Immigration would stray too far away from the Topic. My Main Point in that Regard was just that the Baltic States (and other, Eastern European Countries) could become a safer Place than Western European Countries with increasing massive ethnic Conflicts, who are trying to integrate completely different Cultures, which is not really working, as you said.

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