nocorras said: That is not what I'm referring to as a strawman. He took my implication that 'more people should be able to get it in the anime' and made the extreme counter of 'SO then, why every anime viewer must understand it perfectly??' when that's obviously not what I meant or anyone could ever reasonably hope for. Hell there are things out righte stated or out right shown in the anime that people complain is lacking. Ok, to be fair: nocorras said: Since when is a lot of anime onlys not getting it = perfection? Don't delete your post. :)) |
| Guys, a few clarifications 1. Does Shirou knew the abilities of the thing he copies? This is bugging me for a while, in HF 2. Aside from a brief reference to Touko of Tsukihime in the end of HF, is there any other instance of referencing other Nasuverse characters in Fate? 3. Would Arcued from Tsukihime can battle any Servants from Fate? What Servants can she defeat and who could defeat her if she is in full power. Thanks, minna. |
| F0XFIRE said: OP 4 most butthurt bitch on MAL. |
peeyaj said: Guys, a few clarifications 1. Does Shirou knew the abilities of the thing he copies? This is bugging me for a while, in HF Until they break, he gains knowledge and abilities of whatever weapon he projects. 2. Aside from a brief reference to Touko of Tsukihime in the end of HF, is there any other instance of referencing other Nasuverse characters in Fate? Touko is from Mahoyo and Kara No Kyoukai, not from Tsukihime. Her sister Aoko is from Mahoyo and Tsukihime. Mahoyo is the story of those sisters. Also I don't remember where exactly, but I know Ciel from Tsukihime gave archer his red coat thingy 3. Would Arcued from Tsukihime can battle any Servants from Fate? What Servants can she defeat and who could defeat her if she is in full power. Arcuied 30% can is more powerful than every servant other than Gil, it would depend on other factors to see how Gil vs Arcuied would go. Anything above 30% she'd wipe the floor with the servants. |
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| I am confusing Tsukihime and KNK, lack of sleep. T_T It really boggles my mind how an ordinary person like Shirou Emiya who did not become a Heroic Spirit later on, become suddenly badass and be able to use his RM, UBW and able to defeat, the strongest servant, Gil. I sorta understand if it is in HF as he is using Archer's arm. But in UBW, it seems to me out of character. I am still not convinced. Hayys. |
| F0XFIRE said: OP 4 most butthurt bitch on MAL. |
| How does a female Master transfer Mana to her female Servant? |
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peeyaj said: I am confusing Tsukihime and KNK, lack of sleep. T_T It really boggles my mind how an ordinary person like Shirou Emiya who did not become a Heroic Spirit later on, become suddenly badass and be able to use his RM, UBW and able to defeat, the strongest servant, Gil. I sorta understand if it is in HF as he is using Archer's arm. But in UBW, it seems to me out of character. I am still not convinced. Hayys. Well, he gained experience from an alternate shirou that did become a heroic spirit. It's the whole multiple timelines thing, just because 1 shirou became and HS and another one didn't, doesn't change the fact that they are both still shirou. It's a theory when it comes to multiple timelines, you'll see it in a lot of science fiction that deals with timelines. Since Archer and Shirou should not both exist at the same time and at the same place, the universe itself begins to merge them. It contradicts the laws of the universe that states there can only be one of him so the universe tries to make them both into one to get rid of the contradiction. Making him gain Archer's knowledge and experience. Plus Archer himself says there is magic within the universe that allows you to do that. Aoko herself has a pretty powerful version of that. |
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ziggy_Z said: If you're talking about the sex scenes, i'm pretty sure it's just bodily fluids. I mean in Kalied they do it by making out.How does a female Master transfer Mana to her female Servant? |
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KamiCity said: Ohhhh, I thought inseminating through intercourse was how it works.ziggy_Z said: If you're talking about the sex scenes, i'm pretty sure it's just bodily fluids. I mean in Kalied they do it by making out.How does a female Master transfer Mana to her female Servant? |
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ziggy_Z said: KamiCity said: Ohhhh, I thought inseminating through intercourse was how it works.If you're talking about the sex scenes, i'm pretty sure it's just bodily fluids. I mean in Kalied they do it by making out. Anything works to some degree, although it's strongest when from a mage. |
WrongPriest said: ziggy_Z said: Ohhhh, I thought inseminating through intercourse was how it works. Anything works to some degree, although it's strongest when from a mage. What the heck is that from? |
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ziggy_Z said: WrongPriest said: Anything works to some degree, although it's strongest when from a mage. What the heck is that from? Fate/Kalied |
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ChickenFry said: Synccc said: Did you forget the part where they removed Caster's real backstory? Isn't she Medea? If so, I know who she is and what is the deal with her without Nasu telling me. But you can't expect everyone to have a basic knowledge in Greek mythology :/. Also my main gripe is that they removed almost all affection and reality from Rin and Shirou's relationship. They love each other and go through live or death situations pretty much every day and they haven't so much as hugged. Also the fact that they only characterised shirou in like, the final 3 episodes... GradationAir also has a huge list somewhere on how they made Shirou appear really stupid and not competent. Basically if you really are very anal about adaptations; I don't believe you because whilst this is an enjoyable adaptation, it is NOT true to the source material. |
| Btw with this argument, don't really want to get into it but I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of the anime only viewers don't get a lot of whats going on considering the amount of questions that have been asked. Also everyone of my IRL friends who watch this and haven't read the VN have no clue how Shirou is doing anything and didn't know he was Archer until the end of Answer. I understand that's not the case for EVERY anime viewer but my impression is that UFO haven't been very clear with explaining a lot of stuff :/. |
SaintEmiyaJun 23, 2015 5:29 AM
SaintEmiya said: But you can't expect everyone to have a basic knowledge in Greek mythology :/. Google is a thing, Allusions were used way before the internet was a thing, nowadays they're even easier to research. SaintEmiya said: Btw with this argument, don't really want to get into it but I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of the anime only reviewers don't get a lot of whats going on considering the amount of questions that have been asked. Questions will always be asked, i'm pretty sure even if you read the VN you'll have plenty of questions. Sometimes it requires multiple reads to understand things. Look at the difference between a reviewer who watches the episode once, and one who actually takes the time to analyze it and go through it multiple times. The difference is quite substantial. |
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KamiCity said: SaintEmiya said: But you can't expect everyone to have a basic knowledge in Greek mythology :/. Google is a thing, Allusions were used way before the internet was a thing, nowadays they're even easier to research. SaintEmiya said: Btw with this argument, don't really want to get into it but I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of the anime only reviewers don't get a lot of whats going on considering the amount of questions that have been asked. Questions will always be asked, i'm pretty sure even if you read the VN you'll have plenty of questions. Sometimes it requires multiple reads to understand things. Look at the difference between a reviewer who watches the episode once, and one who actually takes the time to analyze it and go through it multiple times. The difference is quite substantial. It's pretty poor of a show that expects it's viewers to google outside stuff to understand whats going on in their show FYI. That's just really lazy. Especially for it's Japanese audience who most likely get 0 teaching in Ancient European history/probably have no interest. They also didn't really make Medea a compelling character in this adaptation, I really don't think you should expect people to google her myth. Btw I meant to say viewers not reviewers xD. And yea I understand where you're going with that. |
SaintEmiya said: It's pretty poor of a show that expects it's viewers to google outside stuff to understand whats going on in their show FYI. That's just really lazy. Especially for it's Japanese audience who most likely get 0 teaching in Ancient European history/probably have no interest. They also didn't really make Medea a compelling character in this adaptation, I really don't think you should expect people to google her myth. Umm Allusions are a really big thing in literature actually, saying "it's poor of a show" to use them are just excuses. If you mention Hamlet in a story, do you have to tell them what Hamlet was and who Shakespeare was? No you don't. This show is using many myths as allusions, their history isn't really relevant, and if you choose to look up those myths or know about them then you'll only benefit from it. So idk if I can agree with you in calling it lazy. Also, i'm another thing i'm unsure if I can agree with is that Greek myths are not in the Japanese education system. I mean just look at Japanese video games, japanese novels, and anime and manga a lot of them use these myths and they have a pretty good knowledge about Ancient Europe. At least the international students I've met seem to know quite a bit about it. Then again, Greek, Britain, and Rome were a pretty big thing in our worlds history. You also have to remember, their target audience are those who know the fantasy genre. |
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KamiCity said: SaintEmiya said: It's pretty poor of a show that expects it's viewers to google outside stuff to understand whats going on in their show FYI. That's just really lazy. Especially for it's Japanese audience who most likely get 0 teaching in Ancient European history/probably have no interest. They also didn't really make Medea a compelling character in this adaptation, I really don't think you should expect people to google her myth. Umm Allusions are a really big thing in literature actually, saying "it's poor of a show" to use them are just excuses. If you mention Hamlet in a story, do you have to tell them what Hamlet was and who Shakespeare was? No you don't. This show is using many myths as allusions, their history isn't really relevant, and if you choose to look up those myths or know about them then you'll only benefit from it. So idk if I can agree with you in calling it lazy. Also, i'm another thing i'm unsure if I can agree with is that Greek myths are not in the Japanese education system. I mean just look at Japanese video games, japanese novels, and anime and manga a lot of them use these myths and they have a pretty good knowledge about Ancient Europe. At least the international students I've met seem to know quite a bit about it. Then again, Greek, Britain, and Rome were a pretty big thing in our worlds history. You also have to remember, their target audience are those who know the fantasy genre. You can't talk about how because I know anime onlies who needed stuff explaining that I'm not allowed to use that to say UFO needs to explain more stuff, when you go and say that because of international students you know that all japanese people know ancient European mythology. When for the international students I know (hundreds actually) very few of them actually know anything of ancient European history/mythology. As I stand, in this day and age, modern television shows aimed at the teenage audiences shouldn't require their viewers to do outside research and google mythology. I mean, do you really expect everyone to go and research the epic of gilgamesh as well? That's quite obscure really. |
KamiCity said: Btw, who is that reviewer? He is regarded one of the best by who? Any credibility? A lot of flaws still there. You, actually, since you said he gets everything and disproves that the anime doesn't convey it's messages well enough. ChickenFry said: Isn't she Medea? If so, I know who she is and what is the deal with her without Nasu telling me. Shame it's not exactly the same story, then, isn't it? peeyaj said: be able to use his RM Any powerful mage with a sufficient mind cant use a RM. Time Alter is a mini pseudo RM. |
InsertanamehereJun 23, 2015 6:20 AM
SaintEmiya said: You can't talk about how because I know anime onlies who needed stuff explaining that I'm not allowed to use that to say UFO needs to explain more stuff, when you go and say that because of international students you know that all japanese people know ancient European mythology. When for the international students I know (hundreds actually) very few of them actually know anything of ancient European history/mythology. As I stand, in this day and age, modern television shows aimed at the teenage audiences shouldn't require their viewers to do outside research and google mythology. I mean, do you really expect everyone to go and research the epic of gilgamesh as well? That's quite obscure really. I wasn't talking about them having other questions, I was talking about the use of greek myths specifically. So you are allowed to say "I know hundreds of international students who don't know about greek mythology" but i'm not allowed to say "I know hundreds of international students who do?" Also, how many of those hundreds of international students that you know, are fans of fantasies? Since the target audience of this show is fans of the fantasy genre. Sure it's aimed at teenagers, but it has a specific range. You are making excuses again. Also, how many of the international students you know are even interested in myths at all? I don't expect a person who doesn't like basketball to understand the history of basketball. I don't expect someone who doesn't care for physics to understand the theory of relativity. Why do you think you get vague explanations about scientific theories in scifi? Insertanamehere said: KamiCity said: Btw, who is that reviewer? He is regarded one of the best by who? Any credibility? A lot of flaws still there. You, actually, since you said he gets everything and disproves that the anime doesn't convey it's messages well enough. I'm pretty sure i've never called anyone the best. Even you who is so knowledgeable about the VN gets proven wrong, so I don't know how you expect anybody to understand everything. You want to try harder, or will you give it up, I mean you've been trying for quite a while now? |
KamiCityJun 23, 2015 6:30 AM
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| Must've been Grey-Zone then. Sorry, you guys tend to get muddled together sometimes. KamiCity said: You want to try harder, or will you give it up, I mean you've been trying for quite a while now? Are we talking about you? I mean, you're telling him how people should Google the myth since it's aimed towards fans of the fantasy genre when the actual myth and the version presented in the game are different. You always type a lot and talk about fallacies and whatnot but manage to say very little of substance. |
Insertanamehere said: Are we talking about you? I mean, you're telling him how people should Google the myth since it's aimed towards fans of the fantasy genre when the actual myth and the version presented in the game are different. You always type a lot and talk about fallacies and whatnot but manage to say very little of substance. What about the anime actually needs nasu's version of the myth? Anything at all, because I can't think of anything? Sure it's different and VN readers care that they didn't show it because of the VN..... but what exactly is relevant about it as far as the anime is concerned? You say that I don't manage to say anything of substance, but you have yet to actually say anything at all. I mean you can't even back up your "very little substance" statement. |
KamiCityJun 23, 2015 6:42 AM
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KamiCity said: Insertanamehere said: Are we talking about you? I mean, you're telling him how people should Google the myth since it's aimed towards fans of the fantasy genre when the actual myth and the version presented in the game are different. You always type a lot and talk about fallacies and whatnot but manage to say very little of substance. What about the anime actually needs nasu's version of the myth? Anything at all, because I can't think of anything? Sure it's different and VN readers care that they didn't show it because of the VN..... but what exactly is relevant about it as far as the anime is concerned? http://thirdmagic.tumblr.com/post/121008422496/medeas-motivation-in-the-visual-novel-i-was-once |
InsertanamehereJun 23, 2015 7:08 AM
| Could Fai whitewash Caster any more,Jesus |
Insertanamehere said: KamiCity said: What about the anime actually needs nasu's version of the myth? Anything at all, because I can't think of anything? Sure it's different and VN readers care that they didn't show it because of the VN..... but what exactly is relevant about it as far as the anime is concerned? http://thirdmagic.tumblr.com/post/121008422496/medeas-motivation-in-the-visual-novel-i-was-once Like I said, you managed to say absolutely nothing against the relevance that has in the anime. Sure, it's all nice that she has her history in VN, but what does that matter. Madea's REAL Myth 1. Young and innocent. Check 2. Used by the gods. Check 3. Killed her brother, depending on what myth you read. Check 4. Betrayed her country and her father. Check 5. Betrayed by the man she loved. Check The death of her children varies on the myth, her being used as a scapegoat varies on the myth. Aside from the HF foreshadowing, her myth has very little relevance to the plot of FSN. Sure it would have been nice if they included it, but... was it really that necessary? Also lol at the bias between the VN and UFO version. |
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| What matters is the bit about the fact that she chose willingly to betray her country and her father in the actual mythos and her lack of her own children here. And again, no one should be expected to Google it. Ufo version is literally that-exaggerated, yes, but her master was a jerk and she didn't like killing kids is all that is presented there. Which apparently caused some confusion about her sucking energy from the townspeople later. I'm not even a real fan of Casters character in the VN and I still think Ufotables presentation of her failed to stay consistent with her actual character. What HF foreshadowing are you talking about? |
| Not sure what I am being accused of now, but all I ever said is that it's not right to generalize all of the AO watcher as if they were all a single entity. I never said anything about "everyone gets it", neither did I say anything about "reviewer X got it, that is proof that everyone else does it too". What I did was argue the opposite actually, i.e. "a single reviewer does not represent all of the AO watchers". Insertanamehere said: What matters is the bit about the fact that she chose willingly to betray her country and her father in the actual mythos and her lack of her own children here. And again, no one should be expected to Google it. Caster talking about "being used by others all the time" and Kirei laughing at her Master's "interpretation" of her myth should tell you in what direction it was intended. Yea it's subtle and yea it's still "incomplete" even with that. But whether that is "enough" or not, depends on the watcher. And what about Gilgamesh? I never get his backstory in the VN. Why is it OK for him but not for Caster? And no, if "wikipedia is too much", then you cannot expect from others to have played/read F/Z, F/HA and/or F/E CCC |
Grey-ZoneJun 23, 2015 7:13 AM
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peeyaj said: 1) Shirou wil know how to use it's ability as long as it is in tact i recomend reading the rest of the VN HF really doesnt make much sense without the rest of it.Guys, a few clarifications 1. Does Shirou knew the abilities of the thing he copies? This is bugging me for a while, in HF 2. Aside from a brief reference to Touko of Tsukihime in the end of HF, is there any other instance of referencing other Nasuverse characters in Fate? 3. Would Arcued from Tsukihime can battle any Servants from Fate? What Servants can she defeat and who could defeat her if she is in full power. Thanks, minna. -Touko is from Kara no kyoukai and Magician's night:Witch on the holy night. Aoko apeared in tsukihime and is the MC of MN:WotHN. Archer received his cloak from Ciel. Cornelious Alba from kara no kyoukai appeared in Fate/Zero. Ayako encountered Mikiya kokuto i think. can't think of anyone else atm if there are any -Arceuid at 30% is as strong as 3-4 servants put together. at 100% she's a life wiper and not a single servant would have a chance to take her. |
MaloghurstJun 23, 2015 7:16 AM
Grey-Zone said: And what about Gilgamesh? I never get his backstory in the VN. Why is it OK for him but not for Caster? Ok? I'm talking about how the adaptation failed with Caters character. I don't see how Gils lack of characterization is relevant to that. |
Insertanamehere said: Grey-Zone said: And what about Gilgamesh? I never get his backstory in the VN. Why is it OK for him but not for Caster? Ok? I'm talking about how the adaptation failed with Caters character. I don't see how Gils lack of characterization is relevant to that. Well I don't know about others, but a 3 VN slides long backstory didn't make me emphasize with her, neither did it make me think that it suddenly turned her into a "proper character" from that. Infact her mention about "always being used by others" with an actual story shown for it through her former master had no less impact that those 3 VN slides to me. Then after she meets Kuzuki it kind of becomes a red herring about her motivation anyway, so it only stays relevant for Kuzuki, but he gets a new AO scene to compensate for that. I guess people have different aspects they liked about that arc in the VN and Caster's backstory was NOT part of it for me. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that I did NOT read F/HA yet? Because I heard THAT is where we really get her full backstory? |
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Insertanamehere said: What matters is the bit about the fact that she chose willingly to betray her country and her father in the actual mythos and her lack of her own children here. And again, no one should be expected to Google it. Ufo version is literally that-exaggerated, yes, but her master was a jerk and she didn't like killing kids is all that is presented there. Which apparently caused some confusion about her sucking energy from the townspeople later. I'm not even a real fan of Casters character in the VN and I still think Ufotables presentation of her failed to stay consistent with her actual character. What HF foreshadowing are you talking about? You can say the gods willed her to do it in the myths also, it only removes the mind control which is unimportant to UBW. Also as stated before it's an allusion, none of that actually matters to the actual plot of the story and no one is expecting anyone to google her myth. Her myth is a side story in the VN just as much as it is in the anime. Yes, UFO failed to portray her character the way the VN did it, but aside from being a cool story in the VN it offers very little to the resolution of the plot. Sure I would have loved for the to show it in the anime, i'm not arguing against that. As far as the HF foreshadowing, i'm just going off what you presented. I'll quote it even: "This is consistent with the story's own theme of exploring heroism and the various definitons of it- the idea of a twisted definiton of a "hero" as someone evil who saves others by playing the role of a convenient evil they can blame everything on- and foreshadows a majorly important plot element in Heaven's Feel." |
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| That doesn't make it not relevant to UBW. |
nocorras said: Synccc said: Did you forget the part where they removed Caster's real backstory? And Shirou characterization. And alter/remove Rin and Shirou scenes. Plus a lot of small changes to Shirou stuff that adds up over time. And a lot of explanations were left out in general. And Shirou's answer isn't all that easy to get in the anime. Basically took out the best parts of the route for me and I felt I was left with a hollow experience. Thanks for pointing stuff out to me. It's hard to remember all of the little details. Basically, as far as Caster goes, they could have added one line about who Medea is, and they didn't. I guess that's laziness. I meant more about how instead of the two lines of Caster's previous master, they showed a flashback that more or less fits in with the mythos but gives us more info on Caster. There were admittedly a few funny Rin/Shirou/Saber scenes that were eliminated, now that you mention it. I wouldn't say all of them are necessary, but a couple were. I still really like this adaptation, but thank you guys for outlining your criticisms. I've also read some users criticizing other elements outside of the quiet SoL elements, like the fight scenes. I'd like to hear rationale of that. |
WrongPriest said: as far as a lot of the crazy good details that the anime included it's mainly only gonna be the reader base that is actually gonna get them and this is because after reading the source material they already know what they're looking at and what to look for. anime onlies wont be looking for these because they have no inclination to look let alone have a reason to come to certain conclusions that they should have came to. it's one of the reasons why this anime is mostly just fanservice. perhapse once this anime is fully dubbed and available on netflix/ settled in/tempered/firmly roots itself more and more of the viewership will begin to catch these things especially the western audience who then are no longer busy reading subtitles and possibly missing all the visual cues from the anime.SNaG21 said: I've also read some users criticizing other elements outside of the quiet SoL elements, like the fight scenes. I'd like to hear rationale of that. The biggest disappointment I can think of in that Area is easily Saber vs Assassin's final encounter. I mean if you've read the VN and look very closly as the hilt of assassins sword and his facial reactions you can figure out what happened. But If you don't you have no chance of knowing how the hell Saber went straight through Assassin's refracting Sword. The Majority of the fights have been outstanding in the way of conveying every aspect of the VN, but there's some changes that are just an absolute shame. |
WrongPriest said: SNaG21 said: I've also read some users criticizing other elements outside of the quiet SoL elements, like the fight scenes. I'd like to hear rationale of that. The biggest disappointment I can think of in that Area is easily Saber vs Assassin's final encounter. I mean if you've read the VN and look very closly as the hilt of assassins sword and his facial reactions you can figure out what happened. But If you don't you have no chance of knowing how the hell Saber went straight through Assassin's refracting Sword. The Majority of the fights have been outstanding in the way of conveying every aspect of the VN, but there's some changes that are just an absolute shame. Yes, you are right. The Saber Assassin fight end was more abrupt than it should've been. I remember watching the last episode and I was like "Damn Saber, early much?" |
| They also changed the way the Gil vs Shirou fight went down and the actual reason Shirou barely managed to beat Gil. |
Insertanamehere said: let alone even make it a point to let the audience know that even inside UBW Shirou was still barely hanging on by his ball hairs. matador vs a bull just because a matador can defeat a bull doesnt mean the bull couldn't still have just 1 shot killed the matador.They also changed the way the Gil vs Shirou fight went down and the actual reason Shirou barely managed to beat Gil. |
KamiCity said: SaintEmiya said: You can't talk about how because I know anime onlies who needed stuff explaining that I'm not allowed to use that to say UFO needs to explain more stuff, when you go and say that because of international students you know that all japanese people know ancient European mythology. When for the international students I know (hundreds actually) very few of them actually know anything of ancient European history/mythology. As I stand, in this day and age, modern television shows aimed at the teenage audiences shouldn't require their viewers to do outside research and google mythology. I mean, do you really expect everyone to go and research the epic of gilgamesh as well? That's quite obscure really. I wasn't talking about them having other questions, I was talking about the use of greek myths specifically. So you are allowed to say "I know hundreds of international students who don't know about greek mythology" but i'm not allowed to say "I know hundreds of international students who do?" Also, how many of those hundreds of international students that you know, are fans of fantasies? Since the target audience of this show is fans of the fantasy genre. Sure it's aimed at teenagers, but it has a specific range. You are making excuses again. Also, how many of the international students you know are even interested in myths at all? I don't expect a person who doesn't like basketball to understand the history of basketball. I don't expect someone who doesn't care for physics to understand the theory of relativity. Why do you think you get vague explanations about scientific theories in scifi? Insertanamehere said: You, actually, since you said he gets everything and disproves that the anime doesn't convey it's messages well enough. I'm pretty sure i've never called anyone the best. Even you who is so knowledgeable about the VN gets proven wrong, so I don't know how you expect anybody to understand everything. You want to try harder, or will you give it up, I mean you've been trying for quite a while now? I don't think you understood what I said, I was saying it's hypocritical to say that people can't use reviewers/viewers they personally know to say that anime onlies don't understand whats going on; only to then go and use the people you personally know to say that all Japanese people know ancient European history. I hope I cleared that up. |
SaintEmiya said: I don't think you understood what I said, I was saying it's hypocritical to say that people can't use reviewers/viewers they personally know to say that anime onlies don't understand whats going on; only to then go and use the people you personally know to say that all Japanese people know ancient European history. I hope I cleared that up. In short whoever tries to say "anime onlys can/cannot understand..." has the burden of proof, which is obviously not possible to fulfill unless you got some credible statistics of a representative sample, which I have yet to see even once... So anyone trying to generalize something makes an empty claim, no matter if it's in a positive or a negative direction. We basically waste our time telling each other our "speculations" everytime any of us mentions "anime onlys". That in itself is fine, since it's our own time we waste, it just gets ridiculous if someone tries to ignore this fact and pretends to be all-knowing with the words "most of the anime onlys....." and so on. |
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| Go look at the episode thread for your sample. |
Insertanamehere said: Go look at the episode thread for your sample. You honestly want to claim that the MAL threads are a "representative sample"? |
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Insertanamehere said: Go look at the episode thread for your sample. Statistic question: How many percent of viewers actually post on MAL? |
Grey-Zone said: SaintEmiya said: I don't think you understood what I said, I was saying it's hypocritical to say that people can't use reviewers/viewers they personally know to say that anime onlies don't understand whats going on; only to then go and use the people you personally know to say that all Japanese people know ancient European history. I hope I cleared that up. In short whoever tries to say "anime onlys can/cannot understand..." has the burden of proof, which is obviously not possible to fulfill unless you got some credible statistics of a representative sample, which I have yet to see even once... So anyone trying to generalize something makes an empty claim, no matter if it's in a positive or a negative direction. We basically waste our time telling each other our "speculations" everytime any of us mentions "anime onlys". That in itself is fine, since it's our own time we waste, it just gets ridiculous if someone tries to ignore this fact and pretends to be all-knowing with the words "most of the anime onlys....." and so on. Yeaaa I've realised it's pointless to discuss this kinda stuff when you no one can really know haha |
SNaG21 said: I've also read some users criticizing other elements outside of the quiet SoL elements, like the fight scenes. I'd like to hear rationale of that. Mainly it fails to convey the tactics and message of each fight. Unless you read the VN, you ARE going to label almost every single fight in ufoubw as an asspull. Because they went for more of a flash than substance, a lot of the reasons why shit went down the way it did is unexplained. The choreography also is questionable as for this adaptation, unlike with Fate/Zero(which focused on telegraphing movement and action, as well as using dynamic camera and slo-mo's to showcase tactical aspects), UfoUBW is REALLY overblown with sfx overlays making fights pretty boring to watch. No inventive angles, no tactical aspects or dynamic camera shifts. When one things of nasuverse fights, one remembers TWO things: 1) KNK5 fight scenes. 2) Prillya fight scenes. 3) Zero Fight scenes( ex: vs Berserker. Vs Lancer) Something that can convey speed, intensity and overall sensibility of what is going on, while ufoubw certainly went more of a shonen-y "mudamudamudamuda" kind of fight animation approach. The comparison I linked above really showcases the problem with ufoubw approach to action tbh(and overall cinematography) |
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CookingPriest said: SNaG21 said: I've also read some users criticizing other elements outside of the quiet SoL elements, like the fight scenes. I'd like to hear rationale of that. Mainly it fails to convey the tactics and message of each fight. Unless you read the VN, you ARE going to label almost every single fight in ufoubw as an asspull. Because they went for more of a flash than substance, a lot of the reasons why shit went down the way it did is unexplained. The choreography also is questionable as for this adaptation, unlike with Fate/Zero(which focused on telegraphing movement and action, as well as using dynamic camera and slo-mo's to showcase tactical aspects), UfoUBW is REALLY overblown with sfx overlays making fights pretty boring to watch. No inventive angles, no tactical aspects or dynamic camera shifts. When one things of nasuverse fights, one remembers TWO things: 1) KNK5 fight scenes. 2) Prillya fight scenes. 3) Zero Fight scenes( ex: vs Berserker. Vs Lancer) Something that can convey speed, intensity and overall sensibility of what is going on, while ufoubw certainly went more of a shonen-y "mudamudamudamuda" kind of fight animation approach. The comparison I linked above really showcases the problem with ufoubw approach to action tbh(and overall cinematography) Saber/Archer vs Berserker didn't have any problems I think. Apart from making Saber look more significant than she actually was by her taking a life. |
| Yeah, Saber vs Berserker is relatively most balanced and even then that fight is chock full of sfx overlays(also, skating seiba...). And just as you said it does not convey the danger Saber is in or why she survived that fight(and yes Rin says it but saying=/=conveying, Lancer also said Shirou is smart and we all know how that went) And even then it is relatively low in terms of nasuverse fights animated so far. The first Lancer Vs Archer was also decent but yet again failed to convey the meaning behind the fight for anime onlies(spawning lots of "Archer won the first fight" bullshit). That and messing up Gae Bolg and atmosphere it should have and just how screwed Archer was. Otherwise it is really meh sfx spam fest, with some stuff like Saber Vs Caster(or any Kuizuki fight or Answer) being the worst contenders of (failing to use)flash over substance. |
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| I personally think Saber vs Lancer was done well. |
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laidellent said: I personally think Saber vs Lancer was done well. The reason why the fight was stalemate did not translate well. Gae Bolg execution was only understandable to VN readers. Gae Bolg Damage was nigh inexistent. |
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| If the Dress of Heaven was a noble phantasm, what rank would it be? |
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