Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei Episode 24 Discussion

Sapewloth said:
Since the show never stated the other highschoolers to be Tatsuya wannabes (a.k.a child soldiers stripped of their emotions who already were mass murderers by the time they left middleschool), then it's safe to assume that the likes of Miki, Erika or Leo are functional human beings, with feelings and emotions like anybody else, and who don't have actual battle experience or a kill count.

Sapewloth said:
In the case they do have a kill count (like Erika, if we go by what you said), then it should have been stated in the anime no matter what, cause that's fucking important.
Now about Leo, I can't go with that justification because there is a gulf between "being ready to dirty your hands" and actually "dirtying your hands for real" (a.k.a kill somebody). So unless he's been there before, I can't buy that.
Same for Mikihiko: a "bit of hesitation" doesn't really say much about his state of mind after the deed was done.

Takuan_Soho said:
It hasn't been touched on in the series much, but the reason Kudou was afraid of magicians being "tossed out" of human society is because "witch" hunts are very common throughout the world (including the US) and Japan is ripe with "anti magic" hatred by most humans."

Takuan_Soho said:
So to summarize. This is a "dog eat dog world", the Chinese are not bad because they know that if they don't level up with magic they will be eaten. Everyone, including the Japanese, butchered people in order to get more powerful magicians. That is the way this world is.

wrenchbread said:
Do you even read the shit you write sometimes?

wrenchbread said:
First, there's experimental technology capable of matching or exceeding magic users at combat. I'm pretty sure you didn't bother to read my reply to you in the Episode 19 thread, but I said there that no one should put their eggs into one basket;

Takuan_Soho said:
Mr. Kettle may I suggest you read your own crap. The writer has already addressed your concern. Magic trumps science, because while science can exploit physical reality, magic can rewrite (in only temporarily, but temporarily is permanent if there is not a "base" to return to) that reality.

That is a basic premise of this series. If you can't except it then DROP THE SHOW.

The writer has already addressed your concern. Magic trumps science, because while science can exploit physical reality, magic can rewrite (in only temporarily, but temporarily is permanent if there is not a "base" to return to) that reality.

Otherwise you are a stupid pathetic ass complaining that the Hobbit is bullshit because a dragon can't fly because of its air/speed velocity (ah, MP rules).

Flaws, in fiction, never involve underlying assumptions, only the logic built on those assumptions. This series has stated its assumptions, so if you are going to judge then you have to judge accepting those assumptions. Otherwise you are only an ass.

wrenchbread said:


For very good reason. What have magicians contributed to society in the past century in the Mahoukaverse if not war, chaos, and crimes against humanity? Maybe if you want mages to be treated a little better, go fukken lobby for freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or something? You guys got magic, ffs. You got leverage in the form of firepower. You can make a separate country just for mages if you wanted to. You can break free from your governments and do something productive like solving the problem of space travel. These mages are basically being all pissy after banning nuclear weapons to make themselves the new nuclear weapons and then wondering why the hell everyone is so anti-magic when all they've been doing is fueling war. All

odysseyrh said:
wow just wow. Ok first off it was regular old fashioned human beings that started WW3 and the magicians helped prevented it from leading to Nuclear weapons. That in and of itself is a HUGE plus. Oh and your missing a key fact here....magicians don't lead a nation to war that's the Elected officials who do that which btw ARENT magicians. That's like saying soldiers like war and want to go to war so they go to war when in fact its Kings/Presidents/ and Congress that send soldiers off to war. Also you fail to see what this arc was about.... making a clean sustainable energy source. Which would open the doors for magicians to work for the betterment of man w/o having to viewed as weapons.

wrenchbread said:


Well, I'm sorry, I judge people based on their actions.

Don't want to be viewed like weapons? Then stop acting like them.

I already pointed out the great irony that mages banned nuclear weapons but essentially made themselves the new nuclear weapons. It's a new age of deterrence via magic.

And it's the fact that they willing give themselves to the government to exploit their powers is the issue. The act of doing this fuels magic-related conflict for the foreseeable future. If they would just ban the use of magical warfare, you know, things might be slightly better. Hell, they banned nuclear weapons.

Takuan_Soho said:


Mister Kettle I presume



Mr. Kettle may I suggest you read your own crap. The writer has already addressed your concern. Magic trumps science, because while science can exploit physical reality, magic can rewrite (in only temporarily, but temporarily is permanent if there is not a "base" to return to) that reality.

That is a basic premise of this series. If you can't except it then DROP THE SHOW. Otherwise you are a stupid pathetic ass complaining that the Hobbit is bullshit because a dragon can't fly because of its air/speed velocity (ah, MP rules).

Flaws, in fiction, never involve underlying assumptions, only the logic built on those assumptions. This series has stated its assumptions, so if you are going to judge then you have to judge accepting those assumptions. Otherwise you are only an ass.

odysseyrh said:
it was a two prong problem: in the beginning to prevent the magicians from being persecuted like in days of old it was imperative to make magicians vital to a nations national security. At first this wasn't a problem since 1) number of magicians to civilians was much smaller than it is "today" 2) comparatively 1 magician was equal to 1-2 platoons of troops at best. However as time pasted the strength of magicians steadily grew to were there are some that are "nuclear weapons". Some families, like the Yotsuba fully embraced the mindset of Magicians as weapons. But these magical deterrence class mages (Strategic Class) theres only about 50 of them.

The number of mages that are weapons are quite small the problem is the stereotype. Normal people, especially in times of panic, assume that mages are weapons are there purpose is to serve normal humans.

HomeAlone said:
Magic is sued mainly for war, even though a lot of magicians have no combat experience, they are still able to kill if their lives are threatened,right now, they are in this kind of situation. Anyone with common sense would defend himself in this situation, you want them to turn into emo kids in this kind of situation? Why do you think they chose magicians with actual combat experience as part of the guard personnel?

Those who killed before are Tatsuya and Erika, I am not sure about Leo but his past his mysterious, it was probably Mikihiko's first kill too but he had no reason to hesitate.

Anti magicians rifle are good but against magicians highly accustomed to fights they are not very useful, the fighters of First High can beat them with ease.

jakkubus said:


If their life were threatened? Outcome of that battle was determined before Erika and Mikihiko entered it. What they did wasn't self-defence, but slaughter.



But those rifles combined with EMP grenades (to disable CADs) would not leave magician big chances to win.

Darklight0303 said:


Magic can still be cast without CAD'S >_> We've already been over this

Takuan_Soho said:

Uhm, every magician in the world is treated like a weapon. Some more than others, but all of them have had some experience with it.

Takuan_Soho said:
Are you forgetting the casual comments when Miki first met Mizuki that if he had been the same a year earlier he would have basically kidnapped and raped her?

Sapewloth said:
@HomeAlone then the anime fucked up pretty bad, cause it's not even a matter of taking liberties anymore, it's taking a scene that is supposed to be extremely important for our cast (cause in a world where they are seen and trained as weapons, how each of them reacts to a situation where they have no choice but to act as weapons is what defines them as characters), and make it into a borderline mundane action scene.
Even with those flat ass faces, Leo's uneasiness could've been easily shown through a forced facial expression or voice acting in case the first option didn't work too well.

Erika has bloodlust, someone said. Until that time there's no way to if it's really bloodlust or just generally liking to pick up a fight; because the latter is already a given, considering her tendency to get into a battle whenever there's one. BUT before this episode, all we've seen of them is fighting off bitches they didn't need to kill.
And what we see here is her killing off evil Chinese and then switching back to her usual cocky self like she gets back into a role. Why? Does she just consider it some chore she has to get done, or is the act of killing so natural for her that it's no different than eating bread? Or could it be that she actually enjoys killing? In any of those cases, why wasn't it clearly shown to us, viewers?

Miki's case is a problem in both the VN and the anime, judging from what I've read: it's his first kill, ffs. It's a big fucking deal. It matters! That there's no time for hesitation is one thing, but that it's not even touched upon afterwards is not acceptable.



I'm sorry, but this was never said nor ever hinted at. What the show has been hammering us with is the fact that Tatsuya is a super special case, but certainly not that by the age of 15 all the highschoolers in the country have had actual combat experience. If that's the case, then it should've been fucking said out loud, because again, there is a gulf between "being trained to kill" and actually killing.

But that's exactly why I have so much problems with this show. I ain't living in the Mahoukaverse, and thus I have no idea what that sentence was supposed to mean. Why was it brushed aside and treated like a joke?
Why did Mikihiko even say something like that: what need did he have to rape her since he just wanted her eyes? Why did he go from juvenile wannabe rapist to shy harem lead? The fact that none of these questions were actually adressed is what's baffling. Even working with "assumptions" like you say, there's no way to know what that means exactly unless the show tells us (which it of course never does).
Anyway, if Mikihiko was a molester scumbag when he was younger has barely a thing to do with whether or not he'd be able to kill. Both being bad actions doesn't make them similar in any way, shape or form.

I don't give af that "Japan is not a place" or that it's "dog eat dog world": that we've known since episode X. I don't give af that Maya or whoever the fuck was raped. What my problem is, it's that you have a genetically enhanced Tatsuya that acts like a robot, and actual human beings who act the exact same way. Why? What's the point of a world full of Tatsuyas where everyone just wrecks shit and makes rape threats?
Why point is there to watch a show where the characters all act as one single entity, where all traces of individuality are inexistant? What's even the point of slapping some visible character quirks or traits to a few of them if when you scratched the surface, you see that they're all working and thinking the same way?
Why would one care about any of these characters, when the author doesn't even treat them as people?

Darklight0303 said:

There is so much wrong in this post....

Darklight0303 said:

But that's exactly why I have so much problems with this show. I ain't living in the Mahoukaverse, and thus I have no idea what that sentence was supposed to mean. Why was it brushed aside and treated like a joke?
Why did Mikihiko even say something like that: what need did he have to rape her since he just wanted her eyes?

odysseyrh said:
@Darklight0303
"I'm sorry, but this was never said nor ever hinted at. What the show has been hammering us with is the fact that Tatsuya is a super special case, but certainly not that by the age of 15 all the highschoolers in the country have had actual combat experience. If that's the case, then it should've been fucking said out loud, because again, there is a gulf between "being trained to kill" and actually killing."

umm yea about that they did nerf this a bit but it was touched on. Remember the conversation between Kirihara and Hattori in the NSC arc as they got off the bus? Kirihara makes mention to the fact that Tatsuya aura is like that of someone who has killed and Hattori found that to be suprising/rare

As for the original comment that made you make your reply.... I don't think it occurred in the LNs that have been adapted to anime how in the LN that follows this adapted arc there is a scene that shows just that. Regular humans viewing and treating mages as if they are weapons.

Sapewloth said:
@HomeAlone then the anime fucked up pretty bad, cause it's not even a matter of taking liberties anymore, it's taking a scene that is supposed to be extremely important for our cast (cause in a world where they are seen and trained as weapons, how each of them reacts to a situation where they have no choice but to act as weapons is something that will help define them as characters), and make it into a borderline mundane action scene.

Shangetsu said:


The entire anime in a nutshell.

Mahouka is not a good LN to adapt because it is heavy in details and have a lot of long length explanation about how the world and magic functions. If you think that this scene was fucked up pretty bad then I'll tell you it was one of the most correctly adapted scene in the entire anime.
That just show how fucked up this adaptation is.

For a LN reader that already read the volumes it's fine, we can easily fill the holes the anime left but for someone who never read the LN I can easily understand how this is a terrible experience.

jakkubus said:


If it was correctly adapted scene, then I think it's rather opposite. It means, that the source material itself is the thing, that is fucked up the most.

jakkubus said:


If it was correctly adapted scene, then I think it's rather opposite. It means, that the source material itself is the thing, that is fucked up the most.

Mikatarukito said:
Comparing to the light novel, how far are we into the series?

Mikatarukito said:
Comparing to the light novel, how far are we into the series?

jakkubus said:

Dropped after first volume.

Sapewloth said:
I'm sorry, but this was never said nor ever hinted at. What the show has been hammering us with is the fact that Tatsuya is a super special case, but certainly not that by the age of 15 all the highschoolers in the country have had actual combat experience.

UltraZulwarn said:
Well, the wording is a bit...well unconventional and confusing, no one can blame the viewers when they see that way.

What I get from Mikihiko's lines was that he would boldly offer Mizuki to study Ancient Magic under him so that he could have make use of her eyes

Haruka-SD said:
I still feel like reading a very bad fanfiction written by a 13year old....I really wish the characters were .. well...interesting. The designs were really good and appealing, but yeah idk i thought that OPness will fade over time. BUT I'm pumped for Godtsuya !! And more Gakupo pls I like that one I hope he's OP too.

Takuan_Soho said:


While the characters are more interesting in the novels and that I think Madhouse has done a bad job at showing their characteristics (Erika in particular, also Miyuki), this series is more a "setting" series than a "character" series.

As for the OPness, I suggest rewatching episode 16 where Fujibayashi and the Sensei are talking: basically Tatsuya is like a professional football player playing against high school students. This is one of those details that sort of got mentioned but wasn't developed enough. Basically there are only 50 magicians of Tatsuya's rank in the world, only 13 of them are publicly known (they are known as the 13 apostles, the rest are kept classified), but as a class they are known as "Strategic Magicians."

So until Tatsuya faces a magician of equal rank who KNOWS that he is a Strategic Magician, he has a great advantage over his opponents.

Takuan_Soho said:


While the characters are more interesting in the novels and that I think Madhouse has done a bad job at showing their characteristics (Erika in particular, also Miyuki), this series is more a "setting" series than a "character" series.

As for the OPness, I suggest rewatching episode 16 where Fujibayashi and the Sensei are talking: basically Tatsuya is like a professional football player playing against high school students. This is one of those details that sort of got mentioned but wasn't developed enough. Basically there are only 50 magicians of Tatsuya's rank in the world, only 13 of them are publicly known (they are known as the 13 apostles, the rest are kept classified), but as a class they are known as "Strategic Magicians."

So until Tatsuya faces a magician of equal rank who KNOWS that he is a Strategic Magician, he has a great advantage over his opponents.

Haruka-SD said:
A thing which bothers me is that nearly everyone adores him regardless of what. I mean when he killed the guy with the gun everyone still talked to him noramlly after the 'light shock'. If I would witness that one of my friends from class is able to kill and has the skill to do so I would be cautious or demand an explanation or idk /react/ to that in anyway. Wether it was a terrorist or not. In the anime it was like *shock* *shock over* *back to normal*. They /were/ "raised as weapons" but still it is a normal reacton to question why it was so easy to murder someone calmly like a daily task when this person just got into high school to start his training.

Haruka-SD said:
first off, I don't read the LN and it wasn't clear in the anime so how should I know what they are feeling if they aren't showing that ??

secondly. They might saved my life and I would be thankful for this, no doubt. But imagine you met a guy in school and hang out with him and you think he's neat and stuff, but like an ordinary guy and your school gets attacked and while you don't know what you should do in this situation your new friend just kills the attacker like it's everyday business. I'm pretty sure you would freak out too. Me for my part would want to know if it's save around them or not. You don't know where and why he can kill so easily. I would demand answers to be sure that he's not some maniac killer in secret or belongs to the mafia whatever possibilities there are. You know I couldn't rest next to such guy if I didn't knew a few things about him. Okay I would not demand. I would ask politely if he wants to tell us about that since I'm pretty sure I'd shit my pants twice if someone attacked my school and I'd definately would not pick a fight with someone who could be potentially dangerous. Depending on his answer I would remain friends or avoid im after the situation. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. I would be freaking out after I saw someone get killed that's the thing. None of the chars really had any reaction to the dead guy but rather "wow Tatsuya how u did thing? so awesome".

Haruka-SD said:
...

Haruka-SD said:
yeah I wouldn't ask during battle but probably while still in the hall for a short explanation. "I work for the military" would be enough to know where I stand and where HE stands until things calmed down. I would feel restless and distracting without knowing, I hope you u nderstand what I try to explain^^

Well Erika (?? red hair girl ??) had some combat skills and a "killing move" and class rep is head of some family thing that has influence. So I'm sure they are kinda prepare for battle and know they might have to kill someday, but it's a whole different thing to know something and experience it.

Haruka-SD said:
Ah right, Suzaku did kill. And they showed in the flashbacks that he didn't coped well with it if I remember correctly.

I keep forgetting about the other schools. There's not much hope since there are only two episodes left, but I would like to learn a bit more about them. First High seem to be quite elite so I wonder what kind of students the others accept. Might pick up the LN if I get more involved in this thing. The world is truly exciting and I just love overly complex fictional universerses.

Haruka-SD said:
With only two episodes left and the conflict still unresolved I don't know how much we could learn about the other schools in this time.

You mean the flashbacks during the school tournament? Or are we going to see more Suzaku and George in the last two episodes? (I hope so)