| To answer your question, engalleons, I think that NGNL is on there because of the lolicon and because of several scenes of women being humiliated by being forced to strip, put on embarrassing outfits, etc. I haven't seen Steins;Gate, so I can't comment. |
| Maybe this series isn't sexist exactly, but what about Haruhi Suzumiya? The way Mikuru is treated in that series really bothered me, like in the episode where Haruhi forces her to wear the bunny suit...or when Haruhi makes that guy touch her to get that computer. I know Haruhi is a female character, but it really used to irritate me how Mikuru was just forced into those situations. It just felt like another kind of weird fanservice. |
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SunnyShadows said: Maybe this series isn't sexist exactly, but what about Haruhi Suzumiya? The way Mikuru is treated in that series really bothered me, like in the episode where Haruhi forces her to wear the bunny suit...or when Haruhi makes that guy touch her to get that computer. I know Haruhi is a female character, but it really used to irritate me how Mikuru was just forced into those situations. It just felt like another kind of weird fanservice. I remember being annoyed and offended by that when I was 12 years old ... and trust me, there were a lot of things that didn't offend me then. I think I related to Haruhi and it deeply annoyed me how she treated Mikuru and just trampled all over her friends. |
fuven said: SunnyShadows said: Maybe this series isn't sexist exactly, but what about Haruhi Suzumiya? The way Mikuru is treated in that series really bothered me, like in the episode where Haruhi forces her to wear the bunny suit...or when Haruhi makes that guy touch her to get that computer. I know Haruhi is a female character, but it really used to irritate me how Mikuru was just forced into those situations. It just felt like another kind of weird fanservice. I remember being annoyed and offended by that when I was 12 years old ... and trust me, there were a lot of things that didn't offend me then. I think I related to Haruhi and it deeply annoyed me how she treated Mikuru and just trampled all over her friends. Haruhi does treat her friends poorly. I think she gets called out for this in the second season but I never finished it (couldn't get past endless eight). I do remember seeing a clip from the second season of Haruhi screaming that Mikuru is her "plaything" though, and Kyon getting mad at her for it. Like SunnyShadow, I don't think the show is exactly sexist, but I think its treatment if Mikuru is problematic. The show itself labels her the big boobed moe mascot. And it seems like she is basically there to be exploited by Haruhi (getting more members, brewing tea, the computer, etc). And of course the viewer is supposed to be enjoying the fanservice Mikuru gets wrapped up in. Its been a few years since I've watched the anime, but from what I can remember, Mikuru doesn't have much use other than being eye candy in the first season. In the movie and in the first episode of the second season she has more uses, helping Kyon several times. But her character never really gets much development, making it hard to think of her as much more than a mere fanservice character. I haven't read any of the light novels so I can't speak on if her character is any different there. Haruhi is whole 'nother beast. I think she's a fascinating character. But I've often heard words like "selfish," "pushy," and "bitch" thrown around to describe her. And because of that, we could probably talk about how female character like Haruhi who aren't nice and submissive like women "should" be commonly get called that (think of Skylar White from Breaking Bad or Cersei from Game of Thrones), while similar male characters get praised as "badasses" and "geniuses" AND get defended no matter what kind of heinous deeds they commit. |
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xxHxx said: By the way, I would like to suggest the mangá "Black Bird" to the list of sexist stuff. The main character is a very powerless girl who relies complete in the protection of a youkai. And there is not other female character considerably strong to balance with her. Really? I didn't think so. There were some questionable instances in the first couple chapters, but overall, I didn't find it so. |
| That Steins Gate analysis in the last page is exactly what I was afraid of. I'll still play the VN but, meh. At least I know what I'm getting into. |
| Welcome, Zokolov! @xxHxx: I haven't finished Black Bird either. We can share impressions as we go along. ;) I do agree she's often a damsel in distress, and I found a couple moments in the beginning questionable, like in chapter three, when he says after rescuing her that he wanted her to learn she can't live without him. I haven't seen any more of that since, unless I'm forgetting something. Maybe I'm thinking of it relative to other shoujo, so the bar's low, but I thought Kyou was nice. Misao does determine the progress of their relationship, and while she does martyr herself a lot, it is her decision at least. I wouldn't call this manga empowering though for sure, lol. |
LuckyKrystal said: Haruhi is whole 'nother beast. I think she's a fascinating character. But I've often heard words like "selfish," "pushy," and "bitch" thrown around to describe her. And because of that, we could probably talk about how female character like Haruhi who aren't nice and submissive like women "should" be commonly get called that (think of Skylar White from Breaking Bad or Cersei from Game of Thrones), while similar male characters get praised as "badasses" and "geniuses" AND get defended no matter what kind of heinous deeds they commit. I do dislike Haruhi's character because of the way she treats Mikuru, so I do understand why some people would say that about her. Though, I think that's an interesting point you raised about the views of male characters. I can't think of a male character like that off the top of my head, though I'm sure there are thousands, but I dare say it may have something to do with stereotypes of women. Though it may seem an age old view, I think some people still 'expect' women to be naturally more sympathetic and caring, whilst males are 'expected' to be more logical and tough, and when characters extend out of those stereotypes, some people find it harder to accept. I think this problem stems into stereotypes of male characters as well, such as when a male character is shown to be sensitive and caring. It doesn't fit in with the age old 'roles' of men being tough, so some people don't like it. |
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| Sci-fi Harry. Oh God. What a mess. I watched only two episodes, it was horrible and also terribly sexist. This happens in the first episode so I won't spoiler tag it: Main girl almost gets raped, is "saved" by the main guy (who just stands there, the girl seems more worried about him than herself at that scene it's ridiculous). Girl gets over it five minutes later guy angsts over it for the rest of the episode. She also looks like this. All the time. She has no other expression on her face, ever. http://myanimelist.net/character/15483/Catherine_Chapman |
| Also 12-sai.: Kiss, Kirai, Suki. It has the classic evil female shoujo antagonist. Worse, the girls in the class somehow end up plotting against the boys (to ruin MCs relationship) , and our pure heroine who doesn't play along qith all the evil evil girls. Everything is stupid. But it's very short, so it might not even be worth adding to the list. |
EarwenAug 20, 2014 11:41 AM
| Hi, Im new. Can I first ask why is Haruoki , Clannad,Steins Gate ,and Chobits on the list? I have seen and loved the anime, manga and VN(Haruoki if your confused) but I don't see it offensive. I hope no one hates me for this. But to balnce it out I have a few recommendations for the list Narutaru: This plays out so many wrong themes I swear it has child rape, child pregnancy, child death, and so many other things DearS :Ill admit it has a catchy as heck opening but what's going on in it is just offensive especially with the slave part Maboraho: This makes me face palms because all the dumb girls want to have sex with one guy , this just frustrats me Also am I the only girl who doesn't hate fanservice and can find it relatable at times like showers or a skirt going up because of wind? |
| Welcome. Chobits was discussed a few pages back. Clannad is sexist. Nagisa is the perfect waifu who can't do anything on her own. I don't remember Clanad much, maybe someone else can explain it better. After reading the VN I would say while Steins;Gate is sexist it isn't as bad as some of the other stuff on the list. Unless the anime is different, then I don't know. Besides Steins;Gate isn't even on the list? Am I missing it? |
Earwen said: Thanks, for explaining. I did read and agree with Clannad (Fuko is a confusing plot device /comic relief) and Steins Gate but I still love it. They werent the type to offend me deeply.With Chobits, the manga isnt badly sexist, at least from what I remember. The anime was at times but I never was offended badly enough. Same with Code Geass , Death Note (most of the cast was bad even if it wasn't sexist),and Vampire Knighr (I hate it for totally seperate reasons)Welcome. Chobits was discussed a few pages back. Clannad is sexist. Nagisa is the perfect waifu who can't do anything on her own. I don't remember Clanad much, maybe someone else can explain it better. After reading the VN I would say while Steins;Gate is sexist it isn't as bad as some of the other stuff on the list. Unless the anime is different, then I don't know. Besides Steins;Gate isn't even on the list? Am I missing it? Im still confused as to why Haruoki is on here. I am a fan of the games and watched some of the anime. |
| Heartofsouls- I think Hakuouki is on the list because the main female was weak. She became their captive and then just stayed on as a servant. The males had to protect her all the time too. I was personally bothered by how Hijikata treated her. For the record, I didn't hate the show and I liked a lot of the characters, but it wasn't empowering. |
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Daisy_petals said: Heartofsouls- I think Hakuouki is on the list because main female was weak. She became their captive and then just stayed on as a servant. The males had to protect her all the time too. I was personally bothered by how Hijikata treated her. For the record, I didn't hate the show and I liked a lot of the characters, but it wasn't empowering. Daisy_petals said: Heartofsouls- I think Hakuouki is on the list because the main female was weak. She became their captive and then just stayed on as a servant. The males had to protect her all the time too. I was personally bothered by how Hijikata treated her. For the record, I didn't hate the show and I liked a lot of the characters, but it wasn't empowering. I havent seen it all. (I love the games more because the anime really was at times a mess, it gave me a headache so I took a break) But that was true, though they did for a reason but I really didn't care. Though Ill agree she was weak compared to.the VN protagonist. |
| Hmm . . . not sure Stiens;Gate is sexist per say. I think this is one of the MAJOR problems with labeling something as "sexist" or "not sexist" because it really depends on personal definitions. For example, Game of Thrones is sexist because the girls are shown naked far more than the males. But not sexist because the women are fully developed characters that have agency (many do) and show a wide spectrum of different kinds of females. Stiens;Gate is the same way. Almost the entire female cast has a job, most of the male cast does not. The female cast have a wide range of personalities that do not fit easily inside standard anime stereotypes. However, there are many sexual jokes made, especially from the male character Hack. And Overall, I appreciated the show for having a large cast of female characters with very different personalities and only two female characters have a romantic interest in the lead and |
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| I have finished the VN some time ago and I wanted to talk about Steins Gate for a while now. Keep in mind I didn't watch the anime (but from what I know it's a pretty faithful adaption so it shouldn't make much of a difference). The post on the last page frankly scared me off, I still think it has problematic elements, and lots of them, but has some good points too. Definitely NOT list material though. Honestly some of the things written are plain wrong. I'm going to assume it's been a long time since the user actually watched Steins Gate because seriously I don't know why else they would write some of it. So yeah, if you want to read/watch Steins Gate I say go ahead. I still don't think it's anywhere near as good as people say, but from a feminist perspective it's not much worse than you average anime. @PaladinAlchemist actually in the VN all female characters except Suzuha and Moeka have interest in Okabe. Though some only if you follow their route to the end. Oh and in the Luka end |
EarwenNov 4, 2014 12:49 PM
| @Earwen, I've only seen the anime so I didn't know about the VN :) I'm glad you broke the points down. I thought about doing the same thing, but didn't want my first post in here to come across too angry :) |
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| So I'ma add Ookami Shoujo to Kuro Ouji to the sexist list. Don't need to finish it to know it belongs there, and I highly doubt anyone will disagree with me on this one. Also I'll just add BB as a whole for having pedophilia. |
AmberlehNov 4, 2014 11:10 PM
Amberleh said: So I'ma add Ookami Shoujo to Kuro Ouji to the sexist list. Don't need to finish it to know it belongs there, and I highly doubt anyone will disagree with me on this one. Yeah all I did was read the summary and immediately decided against watching it. They really need to stop making sexist shoujo into anime and actually give girls something positive where the main character doesn't get treated like dirt. |
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| It's weird because I feel like anime was less sexist before... |
new_user said: It's weird because I feel like anime was less sexist before... The rise of Moe! Unless you're talking specifically about shojo then I don't know. |
SakuWolf said: When did Black Butler ever have pedophilla (minus Alois's backstory) I would like to know? I presume Amber refers to shota fanservice undertones. I am one of those who actually like Black Butler for most part (I have been following the manga for years), but those undertones are undeniably present, though they are fortunately not prominent enough to ruin the manga for me. Or maybe I am just turning a blind eye. |
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| I d expect Berserk to be on the list tbh. The subtext, overtext etc scream sexist >: Glorified and sexualised rape scenes, extensive use of rape scenes, homophobic nuances, archetypes on femininity and masculinity. I don't even know where to start and where to end. Guts and Griffith got to be strong, ambitious, faulty and a bunch of stuff. Women in berserk get to be "strong", raped, or dead. |
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| Yeah you know people keep asking to have Berserk added and the only people who were against adding it were some guy friends of mine who love the series. So I'll just add it. |
| Well it's not like they are banned from liking it. We all like things that are problematic to some extent. Let's just not pretend they are ok and provide the rest with trigger warnings. :) thank you for adding it. |
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| I thought Berserk was already on the list tbh. iristella said: Well it's not like they are banned from liking it. We all like things that are problematic to some extent. You tell me. My favorite movie is American Psycho :| It's satire but still. |
EarwenNov 5, 2014 3:58 PM
Earwen said: I thought Berserk was already in the list tbh. iristella said: Well it's not like they are banned from liking it. We all like things that are problematic to some extent. You tell me. My favorite movie is American Psycho :| It's satire but still. Oh no I also like Berserk, it has gorgeous art, but yeah the amount of rape and orgies in it is disgusting. |
Earwen said: new_user said: It's weird because I feel like anime was less sexist before... The rise of Moe! Hm, maybe you're right! On the other hand, maybe my memory's just rosy. I'm sure I missed a lot of nuances when I was younger. |
| Diabolic lovers is softcore porn for a very specific fetish. It is what it is and really not even worth discussing :/ Ookami Shoujo seems to have a larger audience so I'm more concerned about that one. |
| Yeah, actually, that's interesting. DL's not labeled as ecchi. I guess they only think of it as sexual innuendo if it's targeting boys? |
SakuWolf said: I had no clue I watched a soft hentai until now. But yeah Im not going to go further into it, not even worth a chat. Well alot of people love a romantic comedy but I haven't seen too many talks. Well it's not really hentai. It's a VN adaption. The VN doesn't have actual sex either I think, at least not explicitly. But it's targeted toward a demographic who is into the whole...thing. Yeah. So you shouldn't feel bad about watching it, if you do so. @New User it's targeting girls. Why would you think otherwise? I guess it's ecchi for girls, and it doesn't have the tag same reason Free doesn't. edit: I misunderstood what you said nevermind .-. |
| I'm actually watching Wolf Girl as it comes out, and I can say with certainty that it is indeed bad and sexist. The guy talks down to the girl like "Man women are so petty, women are such a pain, women cry too much" and she just thinks to herself sadly, every single time "He's right, we really are". She gets abused constantly by him and still follows him, and one time he outright says "The truth is, I really do like you... I'm sorry for teasing you" and she starts crying and is happy and then he's like "HAHAH OH MAN YOU BELIEVED THAT? WOW YOU'RE SO GULLIBLE NO WONDER PEOPLE TREAT YOU LIKE CRAP" and then she splashes water in his face and storms off and vows to cut ties with him. Then he shows up at her house, gives her a necklace and says "You should apologize to me, You're my dog and you threw water in your master's face. Consider this your collar, I only got a necklace instead of a collar because I don't want people to think I'm a sadist". And she immediately cries and forgives him. I just... Holy shit. And it's more popular than Yona of the Dawn, which is such a wonderful, empowering, beautiful show. It makes me so mad. |
| I really couldn't get into Yona of the dawn. I moved it from dropped to on hold I'll give it another try. SakuWolf said: Earwen said: Well it's not really hentai. It's a VN adaption. The VN doesn't have actual sex either I think, at least not explicitly. But it's targeted toward a demographic who is into the whole...thing. Yeah. So you shouldn't feel bad about watching it, if you do so. @New User it's targeting girls. Why would you think otherwise? I guess it's ecchi for girls, and it doesn't have the tag same reason Free doesn't. edit: I misunderstood what you said nevermind .-. I have played bits of the VN and a few characters plus story were a whole lot better then the anime. The only good thing it has the op. But the VN got into.more detail as to why, they act that way. Though I still say a few of them are ass hats. Also heard more blood is abusive as fuck but I haven't played it so I wouldn't know. Still find that type.of stuff hard to watch though it is meant for the people who like that kind of thing. I wasn't aware that DL had a translation. |
| Now that I think about it, DL might be the first female-targeted ecchi anime I've heard of. It might be groundbreaking, guys! Lmao! (Well, outside BL/yaoi.) @Earwen: Free! isn't ecchi. It's pretty clean, AFAIK, after watching two or three episodes. Wolf Girl, yuck. I am gonna try Yona of the Dawn. Sounds good! |
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