New
Mar 11, 2014 5:35 AM
#401
XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. After this, re-adaptation of Tsukihime? Its not a new route. There's no previous adaptation of tsukihime. |
Mar 11, 2014 9:27 AM
#402
Fai said: XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. Its not a new route. It's sad how many times this exact same conversation happened. |
Mar 11, 2014 12:42 PM
#403
Botato said: It is a sign.Fai said: XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. Its not a new route. It's sad how many times this exact same conversation happened. The new FSN will actually be FHA. |
Mar 11, 2014 12:46 PM
#404
ssjokg said: Botato said: It is a sign.Fai said: XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. Its not a new route. It's sad how many times this exact same conversation happened. The new FSN will actually be FHA. However since its OBVIOUSLY an anime original story, Shirou will be replaced by Saber Nero and it will be harem route version of FHA. Nero then will proceed to subjugate the whole cast and found a new Roman Empire. |
Mar 11, 2014 12:56 PM
#405
Fai said: ssjokg said: Botato said: It is a sign.Fai said: XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. Its not a new route. It's sad how many times this exact same conversation happened. The new FSN will actually be FHA. However since its OBVIOUSLY an anime original story, Shirou will be replaced by Saber Nero and it will be harem route version of FHA. Nero then will proceed to subjugate the whole cast and found a new Roman Empire. Is that the route where Kiritsugu shows up and kills Nero? |
Mar 11, 2014 1:00 PM
#406
Botato said: No, it it is the route where Waver becomes a girl and is getting hit on by some ancient greek military otaku.Fai said: ssjokg said: Botato said: It is a sign.Fai said: XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. Its not a new route. It's sad how many times this exact same conversation happened. The new FSN will actually be FHA. However since its OBVIOUSLY an anime original story, Shirou will be replaced by Saber Nero and it will be harem route version of FHA. Nero then will proceed to subjugate the whole cast and found a new Roman Empire. Is that the route where Kiritsugu shows up and kills Nero? |
Mar 11, 2014 1:21 PM
#407
Botato said: Fai said: ssjokg said: Botato said: It is a sign.Fai said: XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. Its not a new route. It's sad how many times this exact same conversation happened. The new FSN will actually be FHA. However since its OBVIOUSLY an anime original story, Shirou will be replaced by Saber Nero and it will be harem route version of FHA. Nero then will proceed to subjugate the whole cast and found a new Roman Empire. Is that the route where Kiritsugu shows up and kills Nero? Surely you mean the opposite? Such a gracious and exquisite being as Nero can't really be killed, , as the world itself would weep for such a loss. Kerry is sure to acknowledge that. If not now, then surely after 20 days of sitting in her theater witnessing the most majestic of plays. |
Mar 11, 2014 1:28 PM
#408
Fai said: FixedBotato said: Fai said: ssjokg said: Botato said: It is a sign.Fai said: XiPwnUX99 said: I wanna see what this new route is. Seems interesting. Its not a new route. It's sad how many times this exact same conversation happened. The new FSN will actually be FHA. However since its OBVIOUSLY an anime original story, Shirou will be replaced by Saber Nero and it will be harem route version of FHA. Nero then will proceed to subjugate the whole cast and found a new Roman Empire. Is that the route where Kiritsugu shows up and kills Nero? Surely you mean the opposite? Such a gracious and exquisite being as Nero can't really be killed, , as the world itself would weep for such a loss. Kerry is sure to acknowledge that. If not now, then surely after 20 days of sitting chauned in her theater witnessing the most majestic of plays. |
Mar 11, 2014 1:38 PM
#409
ssjokg said: No, it it is the route where Waver becomes a girl and is getting hit on by some ancient greek military otaku. Ah. I keep mixing them up. Fai said: Surely you mean the opposite? Such a gracious and exquisite being as Nero can't really be killed, , as the world itself would weep for such a loss. Kerry is sure to acknowledge that. If not now, then surely after 20 days of sitting in her theater witnessing the most majestic of plays. Right, forgot her absolutely mesmerizing performances. What a great blessing it is to spend 20 days in Nero's theater. |
Mar 15, 2014 5:39 PM
#410
http://www.ufotable.com/2014animejapan/img/top.jpg They better give us something to chew on come then.. |
StanfooMar 15, 2014 6:15 PM
Mar 16, 2014 8:19 AM
#411
Stanfoo said: http://www.ufotable.com/2014animejapan/img/top.jpg They better give us something to chew on come then.. We'll probably be trolled again. Just like in January -_- |
Mar 16, 2014 9:11 AM
#412
Stanfoo said: http://www.ufotable.com/2014animejapan/img/top.jpg They better give us something to chew on come then.. This is me from future: Ufotable has said that they, most certainly are making FSN anime. As you can see it will SURELY contain characters Saber and Shirou and it will SURELY air in the fall. Then they have shown a 5 minute trailer consisting of fate zero recap and ending with 2seconds longer Saber SUmmoning scene. |
Mar 16, 2014 4:05 PM
#413
http://www.anime-japan.jp/exhibitors/exhibition_booth.html Google translate: Released in 2004, PC game hugely popular yet "Fate / staynight". And, this fall to become the 10th anniversary since its release, the TV anime broadcasting initiated by the hand of ufotable that produced "boundary empty" and "Fate / Zero"! "The PV animation screenings for the first lifting of the ban" in this booth "2nd public key visual" and "original goods sales", We deliver the "Fate / staynight" in various forms! Life-size statue of the main heroine, Saber of this work. Exhibition! Looks like we're getting a new PV and key visual. I have a good feeling the PV is gonna deliver this time. |
Mar 17, 2014 6:31 AM
#415
http://www.anime-japan.jp/exhibitors/exhibition_booth.html Fate/stay night individual booth on display! The PC game “Fate/stay night” that went on sale in 2004 still remains very popular today. And 10 years after its initial release, the anime by ufotable, who also worked on Kara no Kyokai and Fate/Zero, will air this autumn! At this booth, we will deliver “Fate/stay night” in many various ways - a new anime PV, a second release of key visuals and the sale of original goods! A life-size statue of the story’s main heroine, Saber, will also be on display! For those who are wondering about what's going to happen at the booth, I've translated the information from the link provided by Stanfoo. ^^ |
KashiroMar 17, 2014 8:19 AM
Mar 17, 2014 10:11 AM
#416
Sorry ufotable. I willbelieve you when it happens. Till it happens, I am 100% sure that the "new pv" will havenothing new. |
Mar 17, 2014 7:02 PM
#417
Kashiro said: http://www.anime-japan.jp/exhibitors/exhibition_booth.html Fate/stay night individual booth on display! The PC game “Fate/stay night” that went on sale in 2004 still remains very popular today. And 10 years after its initial release, the anime by ufotable, who also worked on Kara no Kyokai and Fate/Zero, will air this autumn! At this booth, we will deliver “Fate/stay night” in many various ways - a new anime PV, a second release of key visuals and the sale of original goods! A life-size statue of the story’s main heroine, Saber, will also be on display! For those who are wondering about what's going to happen at the booth, I've translated the information from the link provided by Stanfoo. ^^ LIFE-SIZE SABER, HOLY FU- *brain explodes* And yeah, I gotta stay away from the internet... to not increase the F/SN temptations. |
Mar 22, 2014 6:30 AM
#418
Some more screens of the new PV: http://imgur.com/FSjEnth |
Mar 22, 2014 6:33 AM
#419
stAtic91 said: Some more screens of the new PV: http://imgur.com/FSjEnth Oh look. All from pre-route stuff. Was I right or was I right? |
Mar 22, 2014 6:35 AM
#420
stAtic91 said: Oh yeeeeah!!!Some more screens of the new PV: http://imgur.com/FSjEnth But is it me or does Archer have derped eyes? Fai said: At least for now there s no reason to think that it is something new.stAtic91 said: Some more screens of the new PV: http://imgur.com/FSjEnth Oh look. All from pre-route stuff. Was I right or was I right? |
ssjokgMar 22, 2014 6:40 AM
Mar 22, 2014 6:37 AM
#421
ssjokg said: stAtic91 said: Oh yeeeeah!!!Some more screens of the new PV: http://imgur.com/FSjEnth But is it me or does Archer have depred eyes? Fai said: At least for now there s no reason to think that it is something new.stAtic91 said: Some more screens of the new PV: http://imgur.com/FSjEnth Oh look. All from pre-route stuff. Was I right or was I right? In before ufotable kills off Rin and Sakura right after prologue and proclaims Shinji as main LI. EDIT: and we already have idiots claiming its HF because Sakura had a scene in the pv...le sigh... |
AhenshihaelMar 22, 2014 7:12 AM
Mar 22, 2014 6:57 AM
#422
http://www.typemoon.com/products/hollowvita/ F/HA vita version looks to be boss. |
Mar 22, 2014 7:04 AM
#424
stAtic91 said: Translation never. Voice patch never. meh, ill just import it like i did with ccc |
Mar 22, 2014 8:49 AM
#425
I would do the same if I could read moonrunes. So, about that trailer... |
Mar 22, 2014 9:38 AM
#427
stAtic91 said: Translation never. Voice patch never. I think that in BL thay talked about exctraction tools. Or was it elsewhere? |
Mar 22, 2014 8:37 PM
#428
I must be one of the incredible few that prays this new adaptation isn't based on the Heaven's Feel route. The story does have some interesting ideas that I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated. The problem I have is that Sakura is the weakest and most contemptible character in Fate/Stay Night. I hope they borrow some plot points, but for the love of god don't make Sakura's character the focus. |
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Mar 23, 2014 4:11 AM
#429
mickdrew_99 said: I must be one of the incredible few that prays this new adaptation isn't based on the Heaven's Feel route. The story does have some interesting ideas that I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated. The problem I have is that Sakura is the weakest and most contemptible character in Fate/Stay Night. I hope they borrow some plot points, but for the love of god don't make Sakura's character the focus. Most contemptible? She needs respect just for not going mad before the 4th war.Before breaking she put her Servant to protect Shirou instead of,I dont know, keeping Shinji away from her.And even when she was mad she gave them the chance to run away because she couldnt control herself. And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Sakura. |
Mar 23, 2014 4:55 AM
#430
ssjokg said: And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Rin and Shirou. fix'd. Sakura does not have much badassery till her psycho moments and even her psycho moments are just the way for Rin to be even more badass :P |
Mar 23, 2014 5:10 AM
#431
Fai said: ssjokg said: And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Rin and Shirou. fix'd. Sakura does not have much badassery till her psycho moments and even her psycho moments are just the way for Rin to be even more badass :P Her actions trigger those scenes.There would be no Gil absorption,ALL of Saber Alter,Dark Berserker+NLBW,Archer's arm,Kirei fighting without heart,Ilya's rescue,Rider being badass,Jewel Sword etc ALL of them is because of Sakura's actions. So yeah Rin,Shirou and Kirei wouldnt have THOSE badass scenes if it wasnt for Sakura. |
Mar 23, 2014 5:49 AM
#433
marian11 said: Dunno. I was hoping it would be out by now. But there's not even a cam version of it.So when can we expect the new PV to come out? |
Mar 23, 2014 7:42 AM
#434
ssjokg said: Fai said: ssjokg said: And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Rin and Shirou. fix'd. Sakura does not have much badassery till her psycho moments and even her psycho moments are just the way for Rin to be even more badass :P Her actions trigger those scenes.There would be no Gil absorption,ALL of Saber Alter,Dark Berserker+NLBW,Archer's arm,Kirei fighting without heart,Ilya's rescue,Rider being badass,Jewel Sword etc ALL of them is because of Sakura's actions. So yeah Rin,Shirou and Kirei wouldnt have THOSE badass scenes if it wasnt for Sakura. You are assuming that I count The kill-em-all-event that happened in HF as badass and not a contrived excuse to fast-forward through now-irrelevant characters |
Mar 23, 2014 7:57 AM
#435
Fai said: ssjokg said: Fai said: ssjokg said: And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Rin and Shirou. fix'd. Sakura does not have much badassery till her psycho moments and even her psycho moments are just the way for Rin to be even more badass :P Her actions trigger those scenes.There would be no Gil absorption,ALL of Saber Alter,Dark Berserker+NLBW,Archer's arm,Kirei fighting without heart,Ilya's rescue,Rider being badass,Jewel Sword etc ALL of them is because of Sakura's actions. So yeah Rin,Shirou and Kirei wouldnt have THOSE badass scenes if it wasnt for Sakura. You are assuming that I count The kill-em-all-event that happened in HF as badass and not a contrived excuse to fast-forward through now-irrelevant characters Which event? And if you mean LAncer,Sasaki,Caster and even Gil I only mentioned Gil because of how it happened. Still doesnt change that everything MAJOR in the route happened because of Sakura went crazy. |
Mar 23, 2014 8:45 AM
#436
Mar 23, 2014 9:19 AM
#437
ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: I must be one of the incredible few that prays this new adaptation isn't based on the Heaven's Feel route. The story does have some interesting ideas that I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated. The problem I have is that Sakura is the weakest and most contemptible character in Fate/Stay Night. I hope they borrow some plot points, but for the love of god don't make Sakura's character the focus. Most contemptible? She needs respect just for not going mad before the 4th war.Before breaking she put her Servant to protect Shirou instead of,I dont know, keeping Shinji away from her.And even when she was mad she gave them the chance to run away because she couldnt control herself. And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Sakura. Yes, she is the most contemptible. Not explaining that she's in the war, her insistence on living and lack of any guilt or remorse for the people she's killed, even her desire to keep Shirou alive through the entire story are all selfishly motivated. The town can go to hell, but god forbid something happens to Shirou - the one person that's accepted her She cares little for the lives of anyone who doesn't make her happy, and only acts in the story to maintain the status quo that satisfies her. |
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Mar 23, 2014 9:35 AM
#438
mickdrew_99 said: ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: I must be one of the incredible few that prays this new adaptation isn't based on the Heaven's Feel route. The story does have some interesting ideas that I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated. The problem I have is that Sakura is the weakest and most contemptible character in Fate/Stay Night. I hope they borrow some plot points, but for the love of god don't make Sakura's character the focus. Most contemptible? She needs respect just for not going mad before the 4th war.Before breaking she put her Servant to protect Shirou instead of,I dont know, keeping Shinji away from her.And even when she was mad she gave them the chance to run away because she couldnt control herself. And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Sakura. Yes, she is the most contemptible. Not explaining that she's in the war, her insistence on living and lack of any guilt or remorse for the people she's killed, even her desire to keep Shirou alive through the entire story are all selfishly motivated. The town can go to hell, but god forbid something happens to Shirou - the one person that's accepted her She cares little for the lives of anyone who doesn't make her happy, and only acts in the story to maintain the status quo that satisfies her. Because she doesnt want to fight either Rin or Shirou,why would she want to die or have guilt for people that died when she didnt even know what she was doing before becoming Dark?And it isnt like she could actually stop herself,even if she tried to kill herself,nothing would happen to her. With her past, that she didnt just kill everyone the moment she became dark is because she isnt actually evil.She couldnt even kill Shinji before losing it. Yes the town can go to hell, the whole world even.Nobody knew about her or her pain and those that did didnt do anything except for Shirou.Why would she care? Yet she didnt consciously do anything before she went crazy. Not to mention that even though that it was obvious that Shirou died, she waited for him, while even being good with her niece when she could have take out her frustration on her and others in "contemptible" ways. |
ssjokgMar 23, 2014 9:45 AM
Mar 23, 2014 9:47 AM
#439
ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: I must be one of the incredible few that prays this new adaptation isn't based on the Heaven's Feel route. The story does have some interesting ideas that I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated. The problem I have is that Sakura is the weakest and most contemptible character in Fate/Stay Night. I hope they borrow some plot points, but for the love of god don't make Sakura's character the focus. Most contemptible? She needs respect just for not going mad before the 4th war.Before breaking she put her Servant to protect Shirou instead of,I dont know, keeping Shinji away from her.And even when she was mad she gave them the chance to run away because she couldnt control herself. And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Sakura. Yes, she is the most contemptible. Not explaining that she's in the war, her insistence on living and lack of any guilt or remorse for the people she's killed, even her desire to keep Shirou alive through the entire story are all selfishly motivated. The town can go to hell, but god forbid something happens to Shirou - the one person that's accepted her She cares little for the lives of anyone who doesn't make her happy, and only acts in the story to maintain the status quo that satisfies her. Because she doesnt want to fight either Rin or Shirou,why would she want to die or have guilt for people that died when she didnt even know what she was doing before becoming Dark?And it isnt like she could actually stop herself,even if she tried to kill herself,nothing would happen to her. With her past, that she didnt just kill everyone the moment she became dark is because she isnt actually evil.She couldnt even kill Shinji before losing it. Yes the town can go to hell, the whole world even.Nobody knew about her or her pain and those that did didnt do anything except for Shirou.Why would she care? Yet she didnt consciously do anything before she went crazy. Take any of the main characters; Shirou, Tohsaka, Saber, etc. and put them in Sakura's situation. If any of them had wanted to live in spite of potentially going crazy, you can be sure they would be tortured by guilt of the thought that they could at any time start killing scores of people. No such guilt exists for Sakura, as long as she can cook with Shirou she's happy. I disagree that she had no idea what she was doing in her sleep (at least towards the end). After Gilgamesh attacks the shadow and she fights back, it's made pretty clear that she's become self-aware of her actions - she even lies to Shirou about why she was found passed out in front of their house the next morning. Yes, she has had a rough past, but that only makes us understand why she's contemptible, it doesn't excuse it. In the end her actions are morally wrong and her motivations are selfish. |
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Mar 23, 2014 10:21 AM
#440
ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: ssjokg said: mickdrew_99 said: I must be one of the incredible few that prays this new adaptation isn't based on the Heaven's Feel route. The story does have some interesting ideas that I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated. The problem I have is that Sakura is the weakest and most contemptible character in Fate/Stay Night. I hope they borrow some plot points, but for the love of god don't make Sakura's character the focus. Most contemptible? She needs respect just for not going mad before the 4th war.Before breaking she put her Servant to protect Shirou instead of,I dont know, keeping Shinji away from her.And even when she was mad she gave them the chance to run away because she couldnt control herself. And ALL of the plot points,badass scenes,epic scenes tec are in HF because of Sakura. Yes, she is the most contemptible. Not explaining that she's in the war, her insistence on living and lack of any guilt or remorse for the people she's killed, even her desire to keep Shirou alive through the entire story are all selfishly motivated. The town can go to hell, but god forbid something happens to Shirou - the one person that's accepted her She cares little for the lives of anyone who doesn't make her happy, and only acts in the story to maintain the status quo that satisfies her. Because she doesnt want to fight either Rin or Shirou,why would she want to die or have guilt for people that died when she didnt even know what she was doing before becoming Dark?And it isnt like she could actually stop herself,even if she tried to kill herself,nothing would happen to her. With her past, that she didnt just kill everyone the moment she became dark is because she isnt actually evil.She couldnt even kill Shinji before losing it. Yes the town can go to hell, the whole world even.Nobody knew about her or her pain and those that did didnt do anything except for Shirou.Why would she care? Yet she didnt consciously do anything before she went crazy. Not to mention that even though that it was obvious that Shirou died, she waited for him, while even being good with her niece when she could have take out her frustration on her and others in "contemptible" ways. Her actions are understandable but in no way right. She is essentially a psycho who uses her grief as an excuse to do whatever the fuck she wants. Her line of thinking is pretty much "Since I am a despicable wreck of human being who is useless, I could not have possibly done this. Since this means this is no longer me, I can do whatever the fuck I want yay!~~~" Her backstory makes us understand why. It does not make an excuse for her to be that way. Zouken might have created this monster. But she still IS a monster |
Mar 23, 2014 10:39 AM
#441
I thought people agreed Shinji is the most contemptible character? |
Mar 23, 2014 10:45 AM
#442
Botato said: I thought people agreed Shinji is the most contemptible character? Huh, I guess you got me there. Shinji would be the worst. |
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Mar 23, 2014 11:03 AM
#443
Botato said: I thought people agreed Shinji is the most contemptible character? The difference between shinji and sakura is that Sakura has legitimate reasons to BE This way. Shinji just does it because he is scum on earth. So yeah, Shinji is more despicable. |
Mar 23, 2014 11:47 AM
#444
All this hate on Sakura... That is a shame. All through Heaven's Feel (the only route where she has an active presence in the story) her attacking people only happened because Zouken prodded her to do so. Sakura does not actually WANT to hurt people, but when she is pushed, she starts to subconsciously attack people in the town without her realizing what she is even doing. It has to do with the Grail fragments inside of her body (thanks to Zouken) and her Crest Worms (Zouken again) that made her into The Shadow in the first place. She also had a dick head for a brother that was the final straw that broke the camel's back which made her officially lose herself to her darkness. However, this did not stop her from trying to fight back against what she became, which we see after her fight with Rin. Also, both the True HF ending, and even the Normal HF Ending show that she is not really a bad person, and was only stuck with unfortunate circumstances due to most magi not named Shirou or Rin being total monsters. Sakura is a good character, and Heaven's Feel would be down right AMAZING animated. Of course, I would prefer UBW since that is my favorite Route, but HF would be right up there. (The Fate Route is way too slow and kinda uneventful to have another go, IMO.) It seems we may even get a whole new original story. Which can also be good depending on how it is done, and where the story goes. |
Mar 23, 2014 12:14 PM
#445
Orga777 said: All this hate on Sakura... That is a shame. All through Heaven's Feel (the only route where she has an active presence in the story) her attacking people only happened because Zouken prodded her to do so. Sakura does not actually WANT to hurt people, but when she is pushed, she starts to subconsciously attack people in the town without her realizing what she is even doing. It has to do with the Grail fragments inside of her body (thanks to Zouken) and her Crest Worms (Zouken again) that made her into The Shadow in the first place. She also had a dick head for a brother that was the final straw that broke the camel's back which made her officially lose herself to her darkness. However, this did not stop her from trying to fight back against what she became, which we see after her fight with Rin. Also, both the True HF ending, and even the Normal HF Ending show that she is not really a bad person, and was only stuck with unfortunate circumstances due to most magi not named Shirou or Rin being total monsters. Sakura is a good character, and Heaven's Feel would be down right AMAZING animated. Of course, I would prefer UBW since that is my favorite Route, but HF would be right up there. (The Fate Route is way too slow and kinda uneventful to have another go, IMO.) It seems we may even get a whole new original story. Which can also be good depending on how it is done, and where the story goes. I don't think Sakura has any preference in letting the town live or die. Morals do not drive her actions, Shirou does. It's only Shirou that leads her to do anything considered moral. Is it because he was a positive influence that showed a tortured girl the path to redemption? Contrary to what people who defend Sakura would think, I strongly doubt this is the case. To Sakura, Shirou is the one person (maybe Tohsaka) who accepted her (she says as much in the VN). So she only ever makes the right decision because she doesn't want Shirou to hate her. She only acts to meet his approval. You see my point? She has no actual morals and she doesn't actually care for anyone, all she wants is to feel validated by Shirou. Sakura is like that girl you hear about that is complicit with her boyfriend being a serial killer because he's "the one person who understands me". I have NO doubt that if Shirou happened to be a murderer, Sakura would help him in the search for self-validation. She has no spine, no convictions, and is altogether detestable - the complete antithesis to Saber and Tohsaka who are far stronger heroines. |
MickdrewMar 23, 2014 12:50 PM
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Mar 23, 2014 1:21 PM
#446
mickdrew_99 said: I don't think Sakura has any preference in letting the town live or die. Morals do not drive her actions, Shirou does. It's only Shirou that leads her to do anything considered moral. I do not necessarily agree with this. I look at it a bit differently in that Shirou is the one that led her away from the emotionally killing Matou way into what is considered more normal. Just because she didn't have a strong set of morals before hand (growing up a Magi kills that naturally, and it would be even worse in the Matou family, where this would be considered NORMAL.) I will go into details below. mickdrew_99 said: Is it because he was a positive influence that showed a tortured girl the path to redemption? Contrary to what people who defend Sakura would think, I strongly doubt this is the case. To Sakura, Shirou is the one person (maybe Tohsaka) who accepted her (she says as much in the VN). So she only ever makes the right decision because she doesn't want Shirou to hate her. She only acts to meet his approval. Shirou is the first one to accept her, however, let us not ignore the way she was brought up which has a negative impact on not only fictional characters, but in real life as well. Sakura was essentially sold by her father to a twisted old man, the only person in the Matou family that cared about her died in the Fourth Grail War in a very painful way and essentially right in front of her (killing off her having any hope after this), and she was nothing but abused both physically and mentally by what should have been her own family for years. Why should she have a base set of standard morals when none of the Matou's bar Kariya had any to begin with? Who would have taught her these morals? The fact that in even "normal" Magi family in Nasu-verse, it is more about reaching goals and a whole lot less about caring for who you have to walk over to get there or the means to do so. Even in the Tohsaka household this was practiced with Tokiomi who was more interested in reaching the Root than his own family, or the fact that his two daughters might have to fight to the death in the future. Rin never became the stereotypical Magus even though she always tried. She just couldn't harden her heart and kill off her emotions like others could. That is good for her character, but Sakura's situation was a whole lot more brutal than hers ended up being. Oh, and it definitely does not help that Angra Mainyu is inside her bdy due to the Grail fragments Zouken implanted in her to be a "dark vessel" for his little goals. I don't think having All the World's Evil's inside of you can be pretty good... Sakura was never the strongest person, however, that was not supposed to be her character. She was more easily molded into what Zouken wanted her to become, however, unlike Rin, she could only fight it off for so long. Remember this. Sakura pretty much felt that everything of importance was stolen from her. Shirou was the only person keeping her grounded at all. This is not a negative character aspect for someone as screwed up as Sakura ended up being. Continually violated for years by people she tried to care for tends to drive someone off the deep end. Actually, the fact that she didn't kill Shinji SOONER than she did speaks well of her character that she tries to control herself, and not only for Shirou's sake, but probably her own sanity as well. Actually, she still cared about Shinji up to the point where she killed him, despite all the horrific things he has done to her. Zouken's mechanization's screwed Sakura big time here. She would have been very normal had things been different. I just don't understand how a girl that was given away by her own family into THE most horrible family imaginable is supposed to feel any sort of emotion for most people. What did she have to care about? Things couldn't get THAT much worse for her, after all. Her outlet for rage may be very misdirected, however, that does not make her despicable. She is just as broken as Shirou and Kotomine. This is the main reason all three get insane amounts of detail in the Heaven's Feel Route. However, she was never so far gone till Zouken started to manipulate her into fighting. You see my point? She has no actual morals and she doesn't actually care for anyone, all she wants is to feel validated by Shirou. Sakura is like that girl you hear about that is complicity involved with her boyfriend being a serial killer because he's "the one person who understands me". I have NO doubt that if Shirou happened to be murderer, Sakura would help if that meant she felt validated by him. She has no spine, no convictions, and is altogether detestable - the complete antithesis to Saber and Tohsaka who are far stronger heroines. Saber, Rin, and Sakura are so far different from each other that comparing them is actually pretty funny at how ridiculous that is. All three of them cover different aspects that separate themselves from one another which makes them their own person. Sakura is of course not as strong as Saber or Rin are in terms of convictions. That was the whole point of her character to begin with. This is not a knock to her character at all either. The fact that she ISN'T as strong as the other two is what makes her so tragic in the first place. She couldn't fight off her own darkness even though she tried to do so, even if only for Shirou's sake. However, that does not make her a horrible person. Most people would have been in worse shape in Sakura's shoes, if they would even survive that type of psychological and physical abuse for long at all. The fact she didn't break sooner is a huge testament to her mental fortitude, actually. Also, if Shirou was a standard murderer, I have a feeling Sakura would not have been taken with him to begin with. What drew her to him (and what drew Rin and Saber to him as well) is the fact that he is very determined and his personality of being supportive to everyone is like a type of healing medicine for those around him. We see this clearly in all three routes despite which character. If Shirou was someone less than that, he would never have been given a second glance by Sakura, who sees that type of stuff all the time in her dealings with Zouken, so bringing up a hypothetical like that is also not going to work in this case. Anyway, I still think Sakura is a great character who had a bad draw. She would have been normal if she wasn't part of the Matou household, or if she wasn't continually broken over and over again by people that should care about her. Her character is strong in the sense that she can still be saved from that. I just can't agree with all your points. :/ |
Orga777Mar 23, 2014 1:24 PM
Mar 23, 2014 2:39 PM
#447
Shirou is the first one to accept her, however, let us not ignore the way she was brought up which has a negative impact on not only fictional characters, but in real life as well. Sakura was essentially sold by her father to a twisted old man, the only person in the Matou family that cared about her died in the Fourth Grail War in a very painful way and essentially right in front of her (killing off her having any hope after this), and she was nothing but abused both physically and mentally by what should have been her own family for years. Why should she have a base set of standard morals when none of the Matou's bar Kariya had any to begin with? Who would have taught her these morals? The fact that in even "normal" Magi family in Nasu-verse, it is more about reaching goals and a whole lot less about caring for who you have to walk over to get there or the means to do so. Even in the Tohsaka household this was practiced with Tokiomi who was more interested in reaching the Root than his own family, or the fact that his two daughters might have to fight to the death in the future. Rin never became the stereotypical Magus even though she always tried. She just couldn't harden her heart and kill off her emotions like others could. That is good for her character, but Sakura's situation was a whole lot more brutal than hers ended up being. Oh, and it definitely does not help that Angra Mainyu is inside her bdy due to the Grail fragments Zouken implanted in her to be a "dark vessel" for his little goals. I don't think having All the World's Evil's inside of you can be pretty good... Sakura was never the strongest person, however, that was not supposed to be her character. She was more easily molded into what Zouken wanted her to become, however, unlike Rin, she could only fight it off for so long. Remember this. Sakura pretty much felt that everything of importance was stolen from her. Shirou was the only person keeping her grounded at all. This is not a negative character aspect for someone as screwed up as Sakura ended up being. Continually violated for years by people she tried to care for tends to drive someone off the deep end. Actually, the fact that she didn't kill Shinji SOONER than she did speaks well of her character that she tries to control herself, and not only for Shirou's sake, but probably her own sanity as well. Actually, she still cared about Shinji up to the point where she killed him, despite all the horrific things he has done to her. Zouken's mechanization's screwed Sakura big time here. She would have been very normal had things been different. I just don't understand how a girl that was given away by her own family into THE most horrible family imaginable is supposed to feel any sort of emotion for most people. What did she have to care about? Things couldn't get THAT much worse for her, after all. Her outlet for rage may be very misdirected, however, that does not make her despicable. She is just as broken as Shirou and Kotomine. This is the main reason all three get insane amounts of detail in the Heaven's Feel Route. However, she was never so far gone till Zouken started to manipulate her into fighting. You're contradicting yourself. You're simultaneously arguing she was raised deprived of any morals, but also she has her own sense of morality independent of Shirou. You readily explain away her immorality using her past, and in equal readiness explain her morality using her character. I agree that her past does explain why she acts the way she does, but don't then somehow equate her character as something independent from her past. 1. loss of innocent life in the town is irrelevant to her. Explanation: you would say it's because she hasn't learned true morality BECAUSE of her past. 2. But she does feel remorse towards Tohsaka and Shirou. Explanation: You would say it's because of her morality IN SPITE of her past. See the contradiction? Let's not invent absurd rationalizations to excuse the blatantly obvious: she has no remorse for anyone who doesn't directly care for her - the definition of selfishness. Understanding how someone became contemptible does not stop the fact that they're contemptible. Saber, Rin, and Sakura are so far different from each other that comparing them is actually pretty funny at how ridiculous that is. All three of them cover different aspects that separate themselves from one another which makes them their own person. Sakura is of course not as strong as Saber or Rin are in terms of convictions. That was the whole point of her character to begin with. This is not a knock to her character at all either. The fact that she ISN'T as strong as the other two is what makes her so tragic in the first place. She couldn't fight off her own darkness even though she tried to do so, even if only for Shirou's sake. However, that does not make her a horrible person. Most people would have been in worse shape in Sakura's shoes, if they would even survive that type of psychological and physical abuse for long at all. The fact she didn't break sooner is a huge testament to her mental fortitude, actually. Also, if Shirou was a standard murderer, I have a feeling Sakura would not have been taken with him to begin with. What drew her to him (and what drew Rin and Saber to him as well) is the fact that he is very determined and his personality of being supportive to everyone is like a type of healing medicine for those around him. We see this clearly in all three routes despite which character. If Shirou was someone less than that, he would never have been given a second glance by Sakura, who sees that type of stuff all the time in her dealings with Zouken, so bringing up a hypothetical like that is also not going to work in this case. Saber and Rin are comparable in only the ways I mentioned: They have a spine, they have convictions, and they aren't detestable. Once again you're contradicting yourself. You praise Sakura for accepting her violent brother against all inclinations, while saying she would have the good sense not to get involved with Shirou if he was a murderer. I admit they provide a good reason why Sakura was interested in him (the story of him trying to jump over the impossibly high bar is symbolic of his determination to save her no matter how impossible), but my point is that it would be incredibly easy for her to grow attached to Shirou if he was a serial killer and he was dishonest. You're forgetting my earlier point that she's seeking validation, something that anyone could give if they're willing to lie. In such a situation where Sakura was manipulated into liking a serial killer, can you honestly claim she would morally object to his actions? She wouldn't because her priority is not innocent lives, but self-validation. |
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