Botato said: zak_arranda said: Reading up on it, I find that apparently the director of the anime (though not necessarily the writer, which is why so many people just ignore it) brings up a good point that the fans are free to interpret the ending in any way they think fits how they liked the series He means whether it is a happy or tragic ending is up to the viewer to decide. Deciding that Lelouch is alive just because you feel like it gives the show a giant plothole. zak_arranda said: I kind of suspected that it was possible he attained the Code from his father when he killed him in the Sword of Akasha, and that he was unaware of it leading up to his death. I based that theory on the fact that: 1. His father stole V. V.'s Code before killing him (or while; however it works), and that since Lelouch killed Charles, it could have been a side effect he wasn't aware of. 2. I don't think that Lelouch is the kind of character that would have deliberately sought out the Code. He was confident in his strategic abilities to be able to survive the wars leading up to the final implementation of the Zero Requiem, almost to the point of it being a fault. 3. His ultimate goal was always to ensure Nunnally would have a world she could be happy in, despite that he was oblivious to the one defining thing she would need for ultimate happiness: him. 4. Part of that plan was always to have Suzaku assassinate him under the guise of Zero, who was Lelouch's only true mask. So deliberately planning to keep himself alive, while handing that mantle on to his friend seemed a bit stupid -- something he'd proven multiple times throughout the series that he was not. I'm a terrible optimist. So, personally, I like to think that, despite all of his planning, that one unforeseen event resulted in him surviving the assassination and that he made the decision, hard as it might be for him to abandon Nunnally, to completely drop off the face of the Earth (metaphorically) and travel with C. C. He didn't kill Charles, he couldn't even if he wanted, and he never gained a code. I thought it was clearly stated in the show that Charles and Marianne where absorbed by Cs world, Lelouch didn't kill them. Not to mention Lelouch made a contract with C.C, so he could only kill C.C. and gain her code. He can't gain the code of someone else. PremiumCascade said: sadly i found out the real ending a year after since i watched subbed not raw anyway my theory is that C.C gave it to lelouch before he went to kill himself with him not noticing as she took charles code before lelouch made him go space dust. But how did she get Charles' code? How is she able to possess two codes? And how did she give it to Lelouch? PremiumCascade said: It is implied in the show that you have to die once to lose your geass power and turn immortal (C.C flash back and Charles' first "death"). However, I agree in that it doesn't make sense for him to have Charles' code because: 1. Lelouch didn't kill him and 2. His contract is with C.Cohh for those who say he got it after he killed charles, that makes no sense as he was still using the geass for like 4 more episde so its literally impossible for him to have the code as you cant have both the geass and the code Actually you say that you can only kill a person who you made a contract with however, that's not strictly true is it? If it were true then Charles couldn't promise C.C. that he would fulfill her wish and kill her. To me it seemed Charles wanted to take her code also. Ergo it is very possible for Lelouche to take the code from Charles. In addition Lelouche, by calling on the subconscious, and awakening the Geass in both eyes not only gained the power to kill an immortal but also did directly or indirectly kill both Charles and Marianne. I thought this was obvious when his Geass resonated with that Moon looking thing (the subconscious). |
MilviBritanniaMay 19, 2014 8:43 AM
MilviBritannia said: Botato said: zak_arranda said: Reading up on it, I find that apparently the director of the anime (though not necessarily the writer, which is why so many people just ignore it) brings up a good point that the fans are free to interpret the ending in any way they think fits how they liked the series He means whether it is a happy or tragic ending is up to the viewer to decide. Deciding that Lelouch is alive just because you feel like it gives the show a giant plothole. zak_arranda said: I kind of suspected that it was possible he attained the Code from his father when he killed him in the Sword of Akasha, and that he was unaware of it leading up to his death. I based that theory on the fact that: 1. His father stole V. V.'s Code before killing him (or while; however it works), and that since Lelouch killed Charles, it could have been a side effect he wasn't aware of. 2. I don't think that Lelouch is the kind of character that would have deliberately sought out the Code. He was confident in his strategic abilities to be able to survive the wars leading up to the final implementation of the Zero Requiem, almost to the point of it being a fault. 3. His ultimate goal was always to ensure Nunnally would have a world she could be happy in, despite that he was oblivious to the one defining thing she would need for ultimate happiness: him. 4. Part of that plan was always to have Suzaku assassinate him under the guise of Zero, who was Lelouch's only true mask. So deliberately planning to keep himself alive, while handing that mantle on to his friend seemed a bit stupid -- something he'd proven multiple times throughout the series that he was not. I'm a terrible optimist. So, personally, I like to think that, despite all of his planning, that one unforeseen event resulted in him surviving the assassination and that he made the decision, hard as it might be for him to abandon Nunnally, to completely drop off the face of the Earth (metaphorically) and travel with C. C. He didn't kill Charles, he couldn't even if he wanted, and he never gained a code. I thought it was clearly stated in the show that Charles and Marianne where absorbed by Cs world, Lelouch didn't kill them. Not to mention Lelouch made a contract with C.C, so he could only kill C.C. and gain her code. He can't gain the code of someone else. PremiumCascade said: sadly i found out the real ending a year after since i watched subbed not raw anyway my theory is that C.C gave it to lelouch before he went to kill himself with him not noticing as she took charles code before lelouch made him go space dust. But how did she get Charles' code? How is she able to possess two codes? And how did she give it to Lelouch? PremiumCascade said: It is implied in the show that you have to die once to lose your geass power and turn immortal (C.C flash back and Charles' first "death"). However, I agree in that it doesn't make sense for him to have Charles' code because: 1. Lelouch didn't kill him and 2. His contract is with C.Cohh for those who say he got it after he killed charles, that makes no sense as he was still using the geass for like 4 more episde so its literally impossible for him to have the code as you cant have both the geass and the code Actually you say that you can only kill a person who you made a contract with however, that's not strictly true is it? If it were true then Charles couldn't promise C.C. that he would fulfill her wish and kill her. To me it seemed Charles wanted to take her code also. Ergo it is very possible for Lelouche to take the code from Charles. In addition Lelouche, by calling on the subconscious, and awakening the Geass in both eyes not only gained the power to kill an immortal but also did directly or indirectly kill both Charles and Marianne. I thought this was obvious when his Geass resonated with that Moon looking thing (the subconscious). 1. He would kill her after he succeeds in his plan, we were never told what kind of powers he might get if he re-creates the world or whatever it was he wanted to do. Or if they will still retain their codes in his 'new world.' 2. He already has a code, it's possible he can kill others with the code or he knows how to steal the code from someone. He had an entire city of scientists doing research on Geass stuff afterall. Lelouch had the power to kill C.C from before he had the power in both eyes, she asked him to kill her but he refused. This was in episode 15. And just right before that he shot Charles multiple times but he didn't die. I repeat, they weren't 'killed.' They were absorbed, Charles ceased to exist and his code disappeared with him. Even if he killed them 'indirectly,' he shouldn't gain a code (if it is possible in the first place) because it was indirect. |
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| I wont quote your comment above so as to avoid a massive post but: 1. Well this is completely conjecture, my point remains valid. For one reason or another Charles could clearly take the code from someone who did NOT give him the geass. 2. Same as above. This is never touched on, so I go basically on what the anime shows. He seems to have the capability to take C.C's code even without having obtained the Geass from her. 3. I'll have to check episode 15, I'm pretty sure you need to awaken a complete geass (meaning both eyes) to kill someone who has a code and thats why she keeps saying that their contract is not complete much further into the anime than that. 4. Lelouch's eyes resonating with the subconsciousness looks identical to me as the way Charles' code resonated with that of C.C. I could assume that he forced it to happen...he states himself when activating his full geass that he will try to ask. Let me just note that I thought Lelouch died as well...until I remembered the way the crane and how they zoom into it. The way that Nunally gets his memories when she touches him. The geass he "gave" to suzaku unless he was referring to the wish etc. |
MilviBritannia said: I wont quote your comment above so as to avoid a massive post but: 1. Well this is completely conjecture, my point remains valid. For one reason or another Charles could clearly take the code from someone who did NOT give him the geass. 2. Same as above. This is never touched on, so I go basically on what the anime shows. He seems to have the capability to take C.C's code even without having obtained the Geass from her. 3. I'll have to check episode 15, I'm pretty sure you need to awaken a complete geass (meaning both eyes) to kill someone who has a code and thats why she keeps saying that their contract is not complete much further into the anime than that. 4. Lelouch's eyes resonating with the subconsciousness looks identical to me as the way Charles' code resonated with that of C.C. I could assume that he forced it to happen...he states himself when activating his full geass that he will try to ask. Let me just note that I thought Lelouch died as well...until I remembered the way the crane and how they zoom into it. The way that Nunally gets his memories when she touches him. The geass he "gave" to suzaku unless he was referring to the wish etc. 1+2. It's still not the same situation though, one is already immortal the other is just a human. 3. They never say awaken a complete Geass, hell there was no mention of a complete Geass. Just that your Geass has to be 'strong enough.' In episode 15 C.C clearly asks him to kill her, so his Geass is strong enough. 4. I repeat, even if they were 'killed'.. He only caused it but didn't do the actual killing. The crane and what he says to Suzaku is a metaphor that extends throughout the whole series. The origami looks like the geass symbol, if you make 1000 of them your wish will come true, then you have his speech to Suzaku about wishes and Geass. The way I see the thing with Nunally: she realized his plan, much like how Kallen and Tohdo did, and the memories are thrown there randomly; just a plot hole to increase drama. |
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Botato said: MilviBritannia said: I wont quote your comment above so as to avoid a massive post but: 1. Well this is completely conjecture, my point remains valid. For one reason or another Charles could clearly take the code from someone who did NOT give him the geass. 2. Same as above. This is never touched on, so I go basically on what the anime shows. He seems to have the capability to take C.C's code even without having obtained the Geass from her. 3. I'll have to check episode 15, I'm pretty sure you need to awaken a complete geass (meaning both eyes) to kill someone who has a code and thats why she keeps saying that their contract is not complete much further into the anime than that. 4. Lelouch's eyes resonating with the subconsciousness looks identical to me as the way Charles' code resonated with that of C.C. I could assume that he forced it to happen...he states himself when activating his full geass that he will try to ask. Let me just note that I thought Lelouch died as well...until I remembered the way the crane and how they zoom into it. The way that Nunally gets his memories when she touches him. The geass he "gave" to suzaku unless he was referring to the wish etc. 1+2. It's still not the same situation though, one is already immortal the other is just a human. 3. They never say awaken a complete Geass, hell there was no mention of a complete Geass. Just that your Geass has to be 'strong enough.' In episode 15 C.C clearly asks him to kill her, so his Geass is strong enough. 4. I repeat, even if they were 'killed'.. He only caused it but didn't do the actual killing. The crane and what he says to Suzaku is a metaphor that extends throughout the whole series. The origami looks like the geass symbol, if you make 1000 of them your wish will come true, then you have his speech to Suzaku about wishes and Geass. The way I see the thing with Nunally: she realized his plan, much like how Kallen and Tohdo did, and the memories are thrown there randomly; just a plot hole to increase drama. 1. Not really, there is no reference anywhere that you need to be immortal to take the code of another immortal. if anything it only shows mortals taking codes from immortals. 2. I would have to look at episode 15 again to see the context in which she says it since I don't remember it. 3. Well...that's pretty much the same thing. Who is to say that this type of killing is not able of giving you the code. Sure you can interpret it that way but then other people have chosen to interpret it differently with reference to the cranes (which really only make two or so appearances), suzaku and nunually. Frankly if anything the flash of memories Nunally gets is the same as the one he gets from C.C when shes killed. If I am honest and from watching other anime, writers and directors often love to leave people on cliff hangers and have them interpret the same situation in countless ways. The very fact that 6 years down the line people still discuss it is proof enough that it works. :) |
| 1. I didn't say there is, but immortals can't have a Geass power as shown in the anime, so they can't make contracts with other immortals to begin with. That's my point, Charles is immortal without Geass and can somehow steal a Code, a normal human without Geass can't steal a Code. 2. Alright. 3. It's not, that's like Lelouch using his Geass on, say, Milly Ashford and making her kill Charles. Cranes make a lot of appearances. When is she killed? Also the writers and directors confirmed that Lelouch is dead. It's because the last parts were rushed and due to lack of explanations in certain areas that we have this confusion. |
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| Lelouch is dead #dealwithit fangirls This is as dumb as all the stupid 9/11 conspiracy theories. |
DizzeeMay 19, 2014 1:17 PM
Botato said: 1. I didn't say there is, but immortals can't have a Geass power as shown in the anime, so they can't make contracts with other immortals to begin with. That's my point, Charles is immortal without Geass and can somehow steal a Code, a normal human without Geass can't steal a Code. 2. Alright. 3. It's not, that's like Lelouch using his Geass on, say, Milly Ashford and making her kill Charles. Cranes make a lot of appearances. When is she killed? Also the writers and directors confirmed that Lelouch is dead. It's because the last parts were rushed and due to lack of explanations in certain areas that we have this confusion. 1. Still don't see how that removes any validity from my point. You're basically arguing that we don't know the extent of Charles' power and I'm saying that being under contract is not a prerequisite for taking the Code. 2. n/a 3. Not really, since we know very little about the subconscious. As I said before, the way it resonated with Lelouch's Geass is practically the same as Charles' code resonating with that of C.C. Also despite slowly disappearing, if memory serves, it is only when Lelouch shouts "begone" or something like that, that they immediately and completely vanish. When I say killed, I mean shot in the head at the start, when Lelouch thinks shes dead. You know people keep saying that but I've yet to see the article where they say that. Mind linking it? I'm going to ignore the guy below you as he doesn't seem pleasant. |
MilviBritannia said: Botato said: 1. I didn't say there is, but immortals can't have a Geass power as shown in the anime, so they can't make contracts with other immortals to begin with. That's my point, Charles is immortal without Geass and can somehow steal a Code, a normal human without Geass can't steal a Code. 2. Alright. 3. It's not, that's like Lelouch using his Geass on, say, Milly Ashford and making her kill Charles. Cranes make a lot of appearances. When is she killed? Also the writers and directors confirmed that Lelouch is dead. It's because the last parts were rushed and due to lack of explanations in certain areas that we have this confusion. 1. Still don't see how that removes any validity from my point. You're basically arguing that we don't know the extent of Charles' power and I'm saying that being under contract is not a prerequisite for taking the Code. 2. n/a 3. Not really, since we know very little about the subconscious. As I said before, the way it resonated with Lelouch's Geass is practically the same as Charles' code resonating with that of C.C. Also despite slowly disappearing, if memory serves, it is only when Lelouch shouts "begone" or something like that, that they immediately and completely vanish. When I say killed, I mean shot in the head at the start, when Lelouch thinks shes dead. You know people keep saying that but I've yet to see the article where they say that. Mind linking it? I'm going to ignore the guy below you as he doesn't seem pleasant. 1. But being in a contract IS a prerequisite to gain a code. For normal humans anyway. 2. __ 3. He shouts it but how does that count? His Geass won't work on him anyway.. Also I don't understand what this resonance has to do with the whole thing. There are translations of magazine interviews all over the net, here you go: http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?do=discuss&gmid=38473 http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/10/code-geass-r2-another-nail-in-lelouchs-coffin/ No he doesn't seem so. |
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Botato said: MilviBritannia said: Botato said: 1. I didn't say there is, but immortals can't have a Geass power as shown in the anime, so they can't make contracts with other immortals to begin with. That's my point, Charles is immortal without Geass and can somehow steal a Code, a normal human without Geass can't steal a Code. 2. Alright. 3. It's not, that's like Lelouch using his Geass on, say, Milly Ashford and making her kill Charles. Cranes make a lot of appearances. When is she killed? Also the writers and directors confirmed that Lelouch is dead. It's because the last parts were rushed and due to lack of explanations in certain areas that we have this confusion. 1. Still don't see how that removes any validity from my point. You're basically arguing that we don't know the extent of Charles' power and I'm saying that being under contract is not a prerequisite for taking the Code. 2. n/a 3. Not really, since we know very little about the subconscious. As I said before, the way it resonated with Lelouch's Geass is practically the same as Charles' code resonating with that of C.C. Also despite slowly disappearing, if memory serves, it is only when Lelouch shouts "begone" or something like that, that they immediately and completely vanish. When I say killed, I mean shot in the head at the start, when Lelouch thinks shes dead. You know people keep saying that but I've yet to see the article where they say that. Mind linking it? I'm going to ignore the guy below you as he doesn't seem pleasant. 1. But being in a contract IS a prerequisite to gain a code. For normal humans anyway. 2. __ 3. He shouts it but how does that count? His Geass won't work on him anyway.. Also I don't understand what this resonance has to do with the whole thing. There are translations of magazine interviews all over the net, here you go: http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?do=discuss&gmid=38473 http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/10/code-geass-r2-another-nail-in-lelouchs-coffin/ No he doesn't seem so. Yes Lelouche had a contract with CC but that doesn't mean he cannot get the code from Charles. Well the shout seems like hes effectively willed them away with his own power. The resonance importance is two fold. One is him effectively getting the subconscious to do what he says and two that this act kills Charles' who is in possession of a code. Thanks for the links. Seems kinda contradictory though with Okouchi saying one thing and Taniguchi saying that he thinks of it as a happy ending over all and that the epilogue is up to the viewers to work out for themselves. I could be really pedantic and say that with Taniguchi being the producer/director/writer his opinion is final but then whats the point of a back and forth which is what I fear this will eventually turn into. I have no problem with people thinking Lelouch is dead or alive ^^ Regardless thanks for the fun chat and for not getting emotional as most people tend to during these debates! I'm out! Peace! :) |
MilviBritanniaMay 20, 2014 5:14 AM
| I have reason to believe that you do only get a code from the person who gave you the power. That's what I gathered from watching the show. That whole scene lacks explanations like no tomorrow tbh, so who knows :| I think it's too late to fear that, because it already happened xD No problem hahaha! C ya. |
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Fundog said: Charles did intend on taking C.C's code, so it's obvious you can steal codes off people unrelated to your contract. Except Charles doesn't have a contract anymore and is already immortal, Lelouch is not. You can't assume they can do the same things. |
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Botato said: Fundog said: Charles did intend on taking C.C's code, so it's obvious you can steal codes off people unrelated to your contract. Except Charles doesn't have a contract anymore and is already immortal, Lelouch is not. You can't assume they can do the same things. It's Code Geass...practically anything is possible :P You know I went back and re-watched the ending saw Lelouch die and thought yeah, he is dead...and then saw the final scene with C.C. and thought, yeah he is alive, again. It really is an amazing ending! :) |
MilviBritannia said: Botato said: Fundog said: Charles did intend on taking C.C's code, so it's obvious you can steal codes off people unrelated to your contract. Except Charles doesn't have a contract anymore and is already immortal, Lelouch is not. You can't assume they can do the same things. It's Code Geass...practically anything is possible :P You know I went back and re-watched the ending saw Lelouch die and thought yeah, he is dead...and then saw the final scene with C.C. and thought, yeah he is alive, again. It really is an amazing ending! :) Yeah Everything is possible in CG!! :D Agreed, my favorite ending so far. (Not that I've seen many anime but still.. :P ) |
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Fundog said: Botato said: Fundog said: Charles did intend on taking C.C's code, so it's obvious you can steal codes off people unrelated to your contract. Except Charles doesn't have a contract anymore and is already immortal, Lelouch is not. You can't assume they can do the same things. C.C said that Lelouch was strong enough to kill her now that his Geass is strong enough. So it's about strength of Geass that allows you to defeat a Code bearer or steal their codes. I know. Charles doesn't have a geass when he tries to steal C.C's code though. |
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moranoutofideas said: Back in good ol' R1 lelouch narrates in a rather ambiguous way, chronologically that it is. Given this, someone concocted the theory that perhaps events weren't moving as they happened rather how lelouch narrates them. Also can someone explain why the seasons are called R1 and R2? Season one is not called R1. R2 probably means Rebellion 2, aka second black rebellion to recapture Japan. Which is what Lelouch was planning for most of the season. |
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Fundog said: moranoutofideas said: Back in good ol' R1 lelouch narrates in a rather ambiguous way, chronologically that it is. Given this, someone concocted the theory that perhaps events weren't moving as they happened rather how lelouch narrates them. Also can someone explain why the seasons are called R1 and R2? There is no R1. R2 is the romanisation of Lelouch Lamperouge, showing that he is a code bearer like C.C. They could've called it R.R, but that would be way too obvious. Source please? |
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| Let you thought go about Code Geass, An Anime is build to theorized about, it your own belief who decided what for ending an anime has, when the creater don't let clues behind, then there isn't an other 'fan' concept about the story. An anime is just a story who is made by a creator, so it is just a piece of interest information. every story could be made different, that is why there exist theorized story concepts. The most creators of this anime decided (belieft) that Lelouch is dead, but let clues behind to make people think about an alternate story (ending) of the original story. So the main discussion is about the serie, is Lelouch dead or alive Construction: Reason (support post[ L=line]) Clues for alive: Lelouch was at highest level of Geass (#1L1) Nunally seeing Lelouch's memory (#71), (#1L2) Lelouch kill Charles with Geass and obtained the code (#1L1)(#10)(#13) C.C Ending= Talking about Lelouch, the smile of her (unusual) , her body language is talking to the air, these things can be clues. (#13)(#47) Pink crane = a referring to Nunnally (#13) The song "Continued Story"'s lyrics are "Lets meet again if we are still alive" or something (#71) R2 = R.R (renamed after getting immortal like C.C etc.) (#47) Dead = Lelouch mortal life is dead (no the Geass user himself, referring to the code 'immortal') Ending word 'solitude' = a referring of his 'mortal dead' & not right question, Lelouch? (#47) Lelouch is a lier and manipulator, so 'to Suzaku' (#47) C.C wish to be loved (#52) Clues for dead: Most staff members choose this ending (#18)(#68) Realistic ending, dead (crying that Lelouch do not open his eyes)(#18) Real sacrifice for justice No hard thinking / (accept the story from creators) (#74) Did he master really the Geass like Charles. / Did the code really pass to him. (#1L1) R2 = Rerouch Ramperouge C.C. is looking at the sky, symbolic for the afterlife. How is the context any different? (#73) Why there is speculation C.C wish Personality of Lelouch Renaming of immortal Passing the code yes or no. Power of a Geass user (transferring memory, immortal) [https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/6250/how-could-nunnaly-see-lelouchs-memories, Story is made for open view] |
EternalwishJun 9, 2014 2:06 PM
| Well put Eternalwish! I agree that the best animes are those that leave the ending open to debate. No matter what anyone thinks is up to them. I am unsure as to why people are so eager to prove each other wrong or to change others opinion's. Regardless, good note of clues and points of view. It summaries everything very well. Cudos! |
| Didn't Okouchi confirm that Lelouch is dead? It's not that some Lelouch is alive theories don't make sense, some do, but we have an official source confirming that he isn't, I don't see how that isn't enough evidence to prove that he's dead. |
Windfall said: He did. The theories seem to make sense but if you think a bit about them with your Lelouch over-fanboy-ism off, they wouldn't. For your last question, apparently the fact that he said "it's up to the viewer to decide" means he's not dead to some people, even though he CLEARLY meant that whether you think his death was tragic, bitter sweet or happy is up to you.Didn't Okouchi confirm that Lelouch is dead? It's not that some Lelouch is alive theories don't make sense, some do, but we have an official source confirming that he isn't, I don't see how that isn't enough evidence to prove that he's dead. |
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| He's Alive! |
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BlackAvatar said: No she didn't. She's still crippled.grandy_UiD said: Actually nunnaly gets rid of that geass after charles' death.So what now?People here should really stop coming up with theories (and presenting them as facts) when the series never ever stated something like that. Only because one Geass stops working after the users death doesn't mean that's true for every Geass. I'm not sure about that example but I think it means the scene where they raid the Geass order and one of the kids there took control of one of the soldiers movements. It indeed stops after Rolo kills the kid. The thing is there are different types of Geass and that kid's was obviously one that only works while the user is actively using it. So if he turns it off (or dies) the effect stops as well. Same type as Rolo. Then there are Geass that only have to be used once and then have a permanent effect on the target. That would be the case with Lelouch. he doesn't have to constantly use it. He casts it once and is done with it. Same as Charles. Oh yeah Charles. Remember him? Both Nunnaly and Anya were still under the influence of his Geass long after he died. So there goes that theory down the drain. As for your previous post, the fucking AUTHOR said he is dead. How the fuck does that not count? And no there's no proof that he's alive. Speculation =/= proof. |
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Forgetfulness said: And also, the whole "Nunnaly totally saw his memories!!" thing is bullshit. She didn't see them, they were just thrown on screen to make the scene more emotional.I don't really feel like getting into some huge argument about this, but I don't see why this is still going on. Let me jot down a few major arguments for both sides 1. Author says he's dead 2. Series says he's dead 3. "Director's cut" is obviously fake 4. Lelouch foreshadowed his death from the very first episode 5. To begin with, it's not even possible for Lelouch to be alive because he did not get Code from Charle, which is obvious because he can still use Geass after Charl dies 6. "You must die for Code to activate" is also bullshit. They never say that in the series and it is something that someone came up with for some stranger reason while both C.C.'s and Charle's scenes can be explained without resorting to it 7. Orange's opinion doesn't mean shit. He could be happy that Lelouch is doing something for the greater good; you aren't him, you don't know why he's happy 8. C.C. was talking to herself or imagining to talk to Lelouch in the afterlife (hence her looking at the sky). If you say "hurdur Lelouch must be alive because C.C. was talking to him!" you must also subscribe to the bullshit that "hurdur Lelouch lives in Kallen's mind because she was also talking to him!" 9. Lelouch did not even kill Charles. "God" or "humanity" did. To claim that Lelouch did would be like claiming "Person A ordered Person B to assassinate Person C. Person A killed Person C", which is not how it works 10. Most other "implications" of being alive are only implications and don't even have to do with the story itself. e.g. title name, ending song |
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BlackAvatar said: I have just read this whole discussion,to me it seems the only proof that says lelouch is dead is that "Staff said so".How are staff related to this in any way? I mean,if staff said those fan theories,wouldn't you then accept them also? I mean,an anime must be judged by itself,not by its creators' opinions.We are all intelligent beings,we all have seen anime,and we all see that there ARE some soft proofs for lelouch being alive,but no proof for him being dead. Yeah,if he is dead,then the show is really having huge plot-holes. At the very center,lelouch's purposes are completely mixed up.At first he says i do this for nunnaly and revenge of my mother.However,later on he seems just lost.He has no purpose at the last episodes,especially after nunnaly's fake death. And most importantly,the plan of killing himself is just bullshit.When the great emperor of the world dies,the world doesn't go to peace. It goes to war.Anyone denying that is simply mad.Go and study history.My own country has seen lots of it.The big king murdered and the throne broken to pieces. Besides,won't people suspect how nobody (even lelouch himself) opposed zero? That it is impossible to kill such an important person so easily.That zero's actions are inconsistent. And,hell,where did charles' code went?It can't just disappear. To me,the show ended childishly,and I believe lelouch was not idiot enough to kill himself even if he wasn't immortal.He could just fake his own death.After all,mao did come alive after eating tens of shots,didn't he? And he was never a person to care for people.He only cared about himself and nunnaly,which BOTH ended up badly,nunnaly with a beloved brother dead and he himself dead. And why in the first place nunnaly betrayed lelouch?It's not that easy to suddenly hate someone,especially when you haven't even heard their explanations. And why didn't lelouch use the order of "obey me" from the start? Please answer anyone.I hate plot-holes. Holy smokes you really didn't get Lelouch's character (development) at all, did you? Him intentionally faking his death would be completely contrary to everything we've seen in the show. The only fact is: there are no "facts" that "proof" that he is alive. Also, "no proof about him being dead"? I don't know, I think him dying would count here... You do have a point that reaching world peace this way is highly unrealistic and would (or rather did) not work in the real world. This however has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Also I'm still waiting for a satisfying answer to my question a few months ago about how exactly Lelouch could possibly walk away just like that after resurrecting. People are free to believe what they want. If you want to think he's alive then that's fine. It's just ANNOYING as shit that you try to make it sound like a fact and the only possible conclusion while it is nothing but speculation. |
grandy_UiDJul 17, 2014 2:17 AM
Pyrowombat said: Botato - Nunally clearly wanted Lelouch to be stopped, she hated him, and she wanted him dead. If she didn't see all the memories at the end, then why would she have had a huge change of heart to "I don't want you to die". She saw that he wanted to create the world that both she and Euphie desired and realised his vision for a better future. Obviously she realized his true intentions there in the end. It just doesn't have anything to do with her seeing his memories because he is immortal. Going by that logic Miss Lohmeyer must have been immortal, too... |
| He's dead and no fan theory or fake video proves otherwise. |
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Forgetfulness said: I totally agree with you! fans just want to have Lelouch alive but he's a tragic hero I have read all comments (and other websites) and for me Lelouch is dead@Pyrowombat Lelouch being confirmed dead: http://atashi.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/code-geass-r2-the-complete-official-guidebook-review/ "Director's cut": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhyzoq4mxo My reasons for it being fake -people claim that it's "from the original DVD/BD" but there's clearly a TV channel watermark logo in the top right -that logo disappears during that one second of "cut content". Obvious conclusion is that that one frame was created and fake -I'm pretty sure if you search around for the "director's cut" you're not going to find it anywhere besides like Youtube, again most likely because someone just faked that frame. And you're wrong about Kallen. To quote the subs, Kallen said: Hey, Lelouch. The world has become a much better place afterwards |
zero2sixty said: Can someone please tell me why Lelouch was still able to use his Geass if he became immortal. Did Charles not state that you give up your Geass power in order to become immortal. The question is whether you lose the Geass as soon as you take the Code or only after "dying" once. It's commonly accepted that it's the latter although now that I think about it it's not nearly as clear as it might seem at first. |
| Do you know what happens when people hate the man in charge, and just a group of people, but everybody who isn't working with him. Well, he dies, then he is thrown on a stake, then he is burned at the stake while people celebrate his death. Lelouch would be dead. I had the glimmer of hope after watching the show as well, but after putting everything together and the fact that CLAMP has made really dark things in the past, I really don't think there is anyway Lelouch survived. Even if he did gain the power of a contractor he would have lost it as soon as C.C. gained it back. That means his immortality is gone as well. Even if Suzaku has stabbed him in such a way that he could survive with minimal injury, well the angry population of the world would get a hold of his body, guard it constantly until they burn it. The beauty of Lelouch is that he was willing to give everything to make the world a better place for Nunnally. That included his own life. And as for the image on the carriage. the man driving it has white hair and a beard only a year after Lelouch died. And if the body had been gone before the burning there would have been some sort of uproar. |
| "Canaan. You're a victim whose past was taken away by war. And she's a defeated person who lost her past in a power struggle. Soldiers who are born within destruction take hatred as their weapon. Even though you and her became soldiers for the same reason, you both live differently. Listen Canaan, you cannot counter hatred with hatred... ever." -Siam, Canaan |
Zebezl2139 said: There's no evidence AT ALL that he gained immortality.-snip- And really? Why isn't she talking in her head if Lelouch isn't there? Well why the fuck not? Why is it so strange that a character is speaking her thoughts out loud? And tilting her head means nothing.. As for the solitude thing, when she told Lelouch this the first time they met she was talking about her own experience, that she has been alone and living in solitude because of Geass. But after meeting him and living with him she gained precious memories and she doesn't feel lonely anymore because of them. |
|
| You didn't read much of this topic, did you? :D |
| Seriously why does it have to be either this or that. This sort of ending is really common in series, movies and many more shows. It is called open interpretation.The stabbing through the heart and his farewell with his sister were signs pointing towards his death (duh?). If things would have been left like this there wouldn't have been scope for any other possibilities. But keeping those small signs such as Nunnally looking at his past memories, CC speaking to the wind (or not?). All of this was intentional for people to choose the sort of ending they want. And I love this sort of thing. Because I get to choose what I want and believe. |
| "This world is rotten. " - Yagami Light "What's most upsetting, is I don't hurt." -Alan Shore "I am not the one at fault, the world is." - Lelouch Lamperouge "I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And I was really… I was alive" - Walter White |
november1911 said: I just re-watched code, I like it but am by no means a fan boy, in fact I dislike a lot of it. But, it seems to me, the rules of the game, that have been established over 40 something episodes support him being alive. Just cause the staff say hes dead doesn't mean anything. Otherwise why bother watching anything ever, if the staff can just contradict the rules they've established just so people will continue to argue over the show and keep it alive and controversial. People either want him to be dead because they think it makes the show deeper and them better people for liking it, or they dislike it and are trolling. If you look at it objectively it's pretty obvious he is alive, this is just another case of creators throwing in a little ambiguity to keep the show talked about after it's over i.e. Inception, Sopranos etc. etc. You interpreted It in a way, the people responsible for the story confirms a different interpretation, you never thought of the possibility of you interpreting It wrong? It's the one who created the story and not you that's wrong? I have to disagree with you, to me It's obvious that he's dead, him being alive to me wouldn't make much sense... Lelouch being alive would not only It pretty much reduce all of the tragedy of the ending but It would also be a very bad cop out, not only that but for Lelouch to be alive things that were never shown to be possible would have happened in a ambiguous way, that's not clever, that's just messy, It's bad writing, considering how this is a very straight forward anime I'd say It's extremely unlikely that the author's actually intended for viewers to look that deep into It and come into such conclusion. BurninDarkness said: Seriously why does it have to be either this or that. This sort of ending is really common in series, movies and many more shows. It is called open interpretation.The stabbing through the heart and his farewell with his sister were signs pointing towards his death (duh?). If things would have been left like this there wouldn't have been scope for any other possibilities. But keeping those small signs such as Nunnally looking at his past memories, CC speaking to the wind (or not?). All of this was intentional for people to choose the sort of ending they want. And I love this sort of thing. Because I get to choose what I want and believe. Couldn't Nunally read peoples heart by touching their hands? Thats how I interpreted that scene, I felt like that ability was handcrafted to make that single scene more dramatic. Anyway, the author confirmed that Lelouch is dead, It's confirmed on the interview and mentioned multiple times on the guidebook, I believe this shows that It was never his intention to leave It open. |
| @ Windfall If it closed like you said than it won't discussed until now. Open interpenetration actually good for series anyway. |
clowred said: Well, it becomes tiresome to read everything. Yes. Yes, indeed. Jesus... |
| He is dead and in hell get over it fan boys |
| I dislike lelouch vi Britannia. im a shiki supporter my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR90F0rzcss4CsrAbkZXTkg/featured?view_as=subscriber Just past the 1500th Mark bitches I approve this video http://youtu.be/U_0CCLxibFk |
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