Charlie Kirk, co-founder of Turning Point USA (TPUSA), was assassinated at a during a Utah Valley University event.

"politically motivated murder"

I feel bad, but Charlie has been shilling for the Republicans for almost a decade. And yet, it what only 2 months after dropping this that he got murdered:



While violence is bad, one of the dumbest moves a political commentator could do was get behind Trump on the Epstein case.

It really bothers me how, instead of condemning political violence in general, people are now debating whether it can be justified for certain views or statements. I too was a black sheep for various reasons as a child and I too had edgy thoughts about people who were my abusers or whom I perceived as such. But political violence cannot be normalized by any argument. If you allow it, you open Pandora's box.

@RobertBobert I'm sure there are a lot of unhinged people actually celebrating this...

It really bothers me how, instead of condemning political violence in general, people are now debating whether it can be justified for certain views or statements. I too was a black sheep for various reasons as a child and I too had edgy thoughts about people who were my abusers or whom I perceived as such. But political violence cannot be normalized by any argument. If you allow it, you open Pandora's box.

@RobertBobert It feels odd, but I feel more inclined to say Brian Thompson was deserving of death than Charlie Kirk. I mean yes, Charlie Kirk's words and ideology did hurt people and led to widespread suffering which no doubt contributed to deaths, making the world a worst place.

On the other hand, using violence against speech and ideology we disagree is inherently fascist, even if said person in question is a fascist.

Deserve is such a dirty word, honestly. Please refer to my forum signature. Obsessing over what is deserved can be damaging to us as human beings.

Though I can see the point @149597871 made. While I am fairly sure it was likely a left-leaning individual who loathed Kirk's beliefs, I cannot rule out the possibility it was someone right or center or left who was upset over Epstein. Kirk was a part of the administration. To which yeah? I think if that was the reason, I would have a harder time condemning the murderer.

I understand violence, even political violence, when the laws fail us. It is a Ken Rex McElroy situation. Again, we do not know who the shooter is, much less their motivation. Of course, I see some motivations as more sympathetic than others.

Also, don't watch the fucking video. I have not, and my life is better for it.

@PeripheralVision The words fascist and nazism have long since lost their meaning after people started using it as a label that meant "I think this person's views are bad." And I say this as a person with Jewish roots. As one YouTuber, a black one by the way, said, if you disagree with someone's views, ignore them or prove them wrong. Otherwise, you're just starting a cycle of violence that may eventually come back to haunt you. For my part, I can say that if you think that their words violate any laws, go to court. Violence is not the solution.

@RobertBobert I think the words are apt here. Violence and coercion is intrinsically embedded into the framework of fascism, and one way to condemn something is to describe as the practice of something else that is considered widely bad.

Ruling with violence is bad, and it is a tool of fascism. Of course, not all violence arises from a fascist ideology, but that does not render violence of this nature and purpose not fascist in its effects. People should not be living in fear that they will be killed for their views. That is fascistic.

Being Jewish does not make you an expert anymore than citing a black youtuber.

@PeripheralVision Violence? To rule by violence? Sorry, what violence did Kirk use and what or who did he rule? If you think you can call anything violence to contrasting that he was a victim of violence, that's not how it works. And yes, don't tell a Jew what fascism is, please. Over 30 of my relatives were killed in the Holocaust just because of their ethnicity. Fascism is a much more dangerous and scary thing than just a person telling you something you don't want to hear.

@RobertBobert

I said politically motivated murder was fascistic violence, unless you were referring to me calling Kirk a fascist, which I think is besides the point here? I mean, I think he is because of his far-right political beliefs which call for systemic discrimination against minorities, his attacks on history and alliance with those who wish to destroy history, and all that, but I still do not think that is a justification for actual political violence.

It would feel weird to me to discuss in this particular thread whether or not he was a fascist, as if we should be discussing the merits of his murder. You can DM me if you want, but I don't think we should be continuing this sort of discussion in any form.



...I am sorry to say, but I was under the impression that Jewish people are not born with a degree in Holocaust Studies, or a degree in political science, or had the final say what a category as broad as "fascism" and "fascist" should include. Of course we would differ, I suppose, but anyway...

Being a member of X group does not necessarily make you an expert on a member of X group, especially when multiple groups of people were subjected to fascistic violence throughout history. Listen, I am considered the most stereotypical leftist on the forums, and even you are utilizing identity politics in a way that embarrasses me.

Mentioning 30 of your own relatives murdered in a Holocaust here? In this context? What the heck dude? Can't we just agree to disagree because we agree that whatever his political affiliation or label applied to him, it is still murder?

@149597871 If you have to specifically remind someone that you are against violence when you comment on someone's murder, then that already means that you are doing something wrong.

@RobertBobert

I agree with you, but then again, raping children and covering up for child traffickers is also wrong.