Forum SettingsEpisode Information
Forums
New
Jun 25, 10:34 PM
#1
Offline
Aug 2022
425
I really only watched Apothecary Diaries because of Maomao. And also because of the high ass score on MAL but mostly because of Maomao. But is this really what people believe a strong and well written female character is. Damn.

Maomao is an overpowered and unflawed character. She can quite literally do anything the plot requires her to do and she is the only person that can do said thing. It so quickly de-escalates tension that like halfway through Apothecary Diaries I lost interest because I knew Maomao already knew what to do. She is more capable than anyone; she is far more intelligent than anyone at least in this season. How exactly are you supposed to derive conflict from something like that? Maomao, I need you to be an expert at chess, at dancing, at manipulation. I need you to be an expert on all plants and all bugs. Since this plot revolves around poisons, nothing can essentially harm you so you are thereby invulnerable. Maomao, you will serve ZERO consequences for any actions you take even when you step out of line. Maomao, can the deutaragonist fall in love with you, even though you are incredibly plain and dry and apprehensive towards him? Maomao, I need you to solve this big mystery that NO ONE else can wrap their head around because you are now essentially Sherlock mf Holmes. Apothecary to scientist to doctor to detective who can solve and do anything and is never wrong. Yh sounds like a real complex character to me.

She's never challenged and her conclusions are ALWAYS right. Always always right. And that would be fine but its how she gets to these conclusions, using the smallest and most unrelated clues possible to get these conclusions. And its so ironic because her father warns her against conjecture. She warns herself against conjecture. Yet somehow, someway, when she applys it to what she is trying to deduce, she is spot on. Like right on the mark that is exactly what happened. Zero room for failure. I mean, you wanna know how to do a smart character. Take a look at Light(which is such a basic one but am I wrong). Because even though Light is incredibly smart and intelligent, he fails. He overestimates himself at times and it can lead to him slipping up. Most of all, Light tries not to assume bs. Because when he does, he suffers consequences for jumping the gun. But this is about Apothecary Diaries not Death Note. And when Maomao speculates, she is right. Her hypothesis becomes factual. Its just so boring.

I mean I hope she improves and meet some sort of challenge but I was hearing shouts about Maomao being this incredibly well written character but she is basically a Mary Sue so how? The one flaw Maomao has she gave to herself. Her freckles or whatever doesnt even make her look ugly and her reasoning for it is stupid too but whatever. Her reaction to what she feared the most(in ep 1) happening to her? Oh well, I guess I'm a slave now. Like what? And I'm supposed to resonate with someone so plain? Yeah, man. Someone gotta explain what y'all see in Maomao because her character is a large reason why I dont wanna watch season two. She is essentially Apothecary Diaries. And man i heard it gets better but I really doubt it. I find it really hard the author is gonna change Maomao somehow.

I have not seen any posts like this before I get accused for tryna make a hate thread again. The rating for this show is so high and I've seen so little criticism for Maomao that I just had to point this out. And can anyone tell me if she does get better, like does she at least fail one time๐Ÿ˜ญ. And yh if you think I'm wrong, you know you can go ahead and bash me for not understanding her character somehow I guess.
-Ezra-Jun 25, 11:24 PM
Pages (3) [1] 2 3 »
Jun 25, 10:42 PM
#2
Offline
Aug 2015
32
You just don’t get it, the fact that she is the only one who can solve all the mysteries is part of her endless intelligence, and survival skills that none else has on that privilege state(aka rich people or nobel) she was raised in survival mode and has seeing many things, and the plot shows you in more episodes and even on the light novel and manga, that she comes from the clan “LA” where everyone is super intelligent and eccentric in their way of thinking, is on her blood, her mom was a super smart courtesan so, that’s why the plot is like that, besides, she thinks that’s her best feature, you see the other women on the anime taking advantage of their best features and skills to survive, maomao does this but with her intelligence.
Jun 25, 10:42 PM
#3
Offline
Jun 2023
53
Incorrect opinion.
Jun 25, 10:46 PM
#4
Offline
Oct 2015
25
I agree. I really dislike her character. She does not get better in season 2. It's been really hard for me to watch because of her. I am only watching these because eventually I want to watch all of the top one hundred shows. But right now, season 2 is close to a 4 for me.
Jun 25, 11:00 PM
#5

Offline
Jan 2021
2435
Heavily agree. You really just laid all my problems with Maomao and the Apothecary Diaries. I still enjoyed S1 because of the intriguing political mystery (+ Lakan), so if that is your cup of tea you probably will still like this series.
Jun 25, 11:04 PM
#6
Offline
Aug 2022
8
Not only the character is ass but her voice is hella annoying too.
You add that on top of the already uneventful s2 and you get a boring ahh show.
While s1 was relatively okay, s2 DOES NOT deserve neither the hype nor the 8.86 rating.
Jun 25, 11:06 PM
#7
Offline
Jan 2022
1115
Anything more to say?
Jun 25, 11:21 PM
#8
Offline
May 2016
2080
Yes, I still remember when she was able to win over the guard and didn't attack her...

Why did you make this thread if you haven't watched the show?
Jun 25, 11:26 PM
#9
Offline
Aug 2022
425
ktg said:
Yes, I still remember when she was able to win over the guard and didn't attack her...

Why did you make this thread if you haven't watched the show?

bruhh why is it always you man? ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ im so done and what are you even talking about? The servant for Lady Lihua that was basically poisoning her? See how like you ignored everything else I said๐Ÿ˜ญ๐Ÿ˜ญ.
-Ezra-Jun 26, 12:07 AM
Jun 25, 11:27 PM
Offline
Jan 2025
68
Kim Dokja pfp = Opinion accepted.


Also, it's not 'kinda' that bitch is hella overrated, Best 6/10 character I have seen so far ๐Ÿ’”๐Ÿฅ€

W opinion, W preference, W pfp.
Jun 25, 11:30 PM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
Christina_Leywin said:
Kim Dokja pfp = Opinion accepted.


Also, it's not 'kinda' that bitch is hella overrated, Best 6/10 character I have seen so far ๐Ÿ’”๐Ÿฅ€

W opinion, W preference, W pfp.

been a while since i seen an ORV fan. Thanks.
Jun 25, 11:33 PM

Offline
Sep 2018
14394
Mao Mao is essentially a shoujo Mary Sue. Liking her character or not is more a matter of finding her cute or not.
Jun 25, 11:37 PM
Offline
Jan 2024
133
What's with these Unemployed Reddit mod-types and their "overrated" crusade?! First Frieren, now Maomao from Apothecary Diaries? These j*bless jabronis just sit around, twiddling their thumbs, waiting to trash a masterpiece because it's not a constant explosion-fest. "Oh, no typical action? Must be bad!" newsflash, snowflake, some shows are good without things blowing up every five seconds and the comparisons? don't even get me started! Apothecary Diaries is a historical drama with mystery, not some psychological mind-bender like Death Note! They're apples and… well, poisoned apples. Stop trying to start a "w*r" because your tiny little brains can't grasp different genres. Also comparing an intelligent apothecary in an ancient imperial court to some high schooler with a magic notebook and a god complex? first off, Light Yagami failed plenty! his big brain didn't stop him from getting outsmarted by a detective who ate nothing but candy and a kid who played with toys. Maomao, on the other hand, solves riddles involving poisons, complex human relationships, and palace intrigues without needing some mystical death book. She uses actual brainpower, observation, and a healthy dose of "don't-mess-with-me" sass, secondly, Apothecary Diaries is a historical drama with mystery, not some twisted psychological death game. Maomao's PUZZLES are about saving lives, uncovering truth, and navigating treacherous court politics. Light's PUZZLES were about seeing how many people he could off before getting caught. Totally different playgrounds. You clearly don't understand the difference between a genius investigator and a megalomaniac with a pen and frankly, Maomao would probably solve their life problems before they even knew they had them.

Next time I see one of those "overrated" posts, I'll just remember it's some reddit mod who needs to get an actual j*b, touch some grass, and maybe, just maybe, learn what a historical drama actually is. Seriously, go outside! Touch some grass!
Jun 25, 11:44 PM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
Extice said:
What's with these Unemployed Reddit mod-types and their "overrated" crusade?! First Frieren, now Maomao from Apothecary Diaries? These j*bless jabronis just sit around, twiddling their thumbs, waiting to trash a masterpiece because it's not a constant explosion-fest. "Oh, no typical action? Must be bad!" newsflash, snowflake, some shows are good without things blowing up every five seconds and the comparisons? don't even get me started! Apothecary Diaries is a historical drama with mystery, not some psychological mind-bender like Death Note! They're apples and… well, poisoned apples. Stop trying to start a "w*r" because your tiny little brains can't grasp different genres. Also comparing an intelligent apothecary in an ancient imperial court to some high schooler with a magic notebook and a god complex? first off, Light Yagami failed plenty! his big brain didn't stop him from getting outsmarted by a detective who ate nothing but candy and a kid who played with toys. Maomao, on the other hand, solves riddles involving poisons, complex human relationships, and palace intrigues without needing some mystical death book. She uses actual brainpower, observation, and a healthy dose of "don't-mess-with-me" sass, secondly, Apothecary Diaries is a historical drama with mystery, not some twisted psychological death game. Maomao's PUZZLES are about saving lives, uncovering truth, and navigating treacherous court politics. Light's PUZZLES were about seeing how many people he could off before getting caught. Totally different playgrounds. You clearly don't understand the difference between a genius investigator and a megalomaniac with a pen and frankly, Maomao would probably solve their life problems before they even knew they had them.

Next time I see one of those "overrated" posts, I'll just remember it's some reddit mod who needs to get an actual j*b, touch some grass, and maybe, just maybe, learn what a historical drama actually is. Seriously, go outside! Touch some grass!

First, you keep censoring the J word its frying me๐Ÿ˜‚. Secondly I like Frieren I acc think its a damn near masterpiece. Or the closest you can really get to that. Thirdly, Im just comparing how both Maomao and Light reaches their conclusions๐Ÿ˜ญ๐Ÿ˜ญ. Maomao js basically guesses shi from the littlest clues of all time๐Ÿ˜ญ๐Ÿ˜ญ. She'll touch something and all of a sudden an epiphany appears๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚. Thats not how u write a smart character. Thats how you do dumb detective shows. You cant js assume i dont like drama, two of my favourite seasons of anime are Frieren S1 and Vinland Saga S2–both very drama and conflict driven shows. The problem is when you have a character like maomao, tension and suspense is essentially non existent because Maomao can do everything and is always right. And in a show that lacks action, how are you supposed to get any conflict? Thats all there is. I want Maomao to fail sometimes because that would challenge her. Thats how characters grow. If the main character can just do everything from the beginning of the show, then atleast make em have some sort of internal conflict(like Saitama) because then whats the point? Maomao essentially cannot grow without conflict n this show doesnt let her face any real conflict. If she cant grow and develop then why am I even watching the show in the first place? To err is to be human. Arent the really well written and complex characters supposed to be reflections of people? Thats what Maomao should be. Because thats how everyone perceives her. She really isnt that at all.

And bro seriously, before you label me a reddit mod. Look at what you just wrote. "dont mess with me sass" ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚. Be fr man.
-Ezra-Jun 26, 12:09 AM
Jun 25, 11:46 PM
Offline
Jan 2025
68
GRG3 said:
Christina_Leywin said:
Kim Dokja pfp = Opinion accepted.


Also, it's not 'kinda' that bitch is hella overrated, Best 6/10 character I have seen so far ๐Ÿ’”๐Ÿฅ€

W opinion, W preference, W pfp.

been a while since i seen an ORV fan. Thanks.

[49%] [51%]

PINNACLE OF FICTION
Jun 25, 11:49 PM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
Christina_Leywin said:
GRG3 said:

been a while since i seen an ORV fan. Thanks.

[49%] [51%]

PINNACLE OF FICTION

REAL SHI๐Ÿ™Œ. Cant wait for the anime
Jun 26, 12:04 AM
Offline
Aug 2023
68
Man this anime is slightly overrated but Maomao is the sole reason this is watchable. Insane charisma and seiyuu
Jun 26, 12:34 AM
Offline
Jan 2024
133
Frieren being a masterpiece – you're damn right! Finally, something we can agree on. Good taste, even for a "not-a-Reddit-mod” but then you get to Maomao, and oh boy, do you go off the rails! "Maomao just guesses sh*t?" "Epiphany appears? Are we even watching the same anime? let’s be clear: Maomao isn't just guessing. She's an unbelievably sharp observer with a lifetime of practical knowledge about poisons, herbs, and human behavior. When she touches something and has an "epiphany," it's not magic! It's her brain connecting thousands of tiny, seemingly unrelated dots faster than you can say "Izanasolos's idiosyncratic, instantly iconic impressions inevitably inspire intense intestinal giggles, even from incredibly intimidating interdimensional invaders... and extice", she notices microscopic details, scents, subtle reactions, and then rapidly processes them based on her vast experience, that's not "dumb detective shows," that's what a genius investigator actually does. It's called deductive reasoning, you know, Maomao does it with less screw up and for the record, Light Yagami had a magical notebook! Maomao's only magic is her brain and her borderline unhealthy obsession with poisons. "Tension and suspense are non-existent because Maomao can do everything?" Have you seen the court she's in?! The danger isn't from a bad guy she can punch; it's from subtle plots, political intrigue, poisonings, and misinterpretations that could get innocent people, or even herself, killed! The tension comes from the intellectual challenge, the race against time, and the very real consequences of failure in a brutal imperial setting. It's a different kind of conflict, one that relies on your brain working, not just your eyes watching explosions. You like Vinland Saga S2 for drama? Great! That's a different kind of drama. Just because a show doesn't have a giant axe battle every episode doesn't mean it lacks conflict. Maomao's struggles are internal and intellectual, dealing with intricate puzzles and moral dilemmas. That's a masterclass in tension for anyone with a brain bigger than a pea. "don't-mess-with-me sass." it's true for Maomao too! she's got that quiet, unimpressed demeanor that tells everyone she's smarter than them without saying a word. It's called character and frankly, your "analysis" is exactly why I'm ranting about people needing to understand what a historical drama is before spouting off about "overrated" nonsense. Now if you will excuse me
Jun 26, 12:55 AM
Offline
Mar 2023
127
I agree she's overrated. Her character starts off pretty complex and interesting, but they cling onto the base version of her character for all 2 seasons without building on that strong foundation. While I think her character's great, I don't think she warrants Frieren levels of praise.

But honestly that's just my opinion. I'm glad a lot of people seem to love her and I wouldn't dream of taking that away from them. I don't really have a right to talk considering my favourite character is a big dumb panda who punches people and is silly. I'd hate for people to be telling me that he's overrated.
Jun 26, 1:00 AM
Offline
Aug 2024
52
This is L ragebait
Jun 26, 1:03 AM

Offline
Sep 2018
5302
Yes, absolutely. You might wanna read some comments I found online about this (I could reword everything and make my own reply, but I'd feel like stealing so I'll just quote them):


Jun 26, 1:05 AM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
Isagi_Kevichi said:
I agree she's overrated. Her character starts off pretty complex and interesting, but they cling onto the base version of her character for all 2 seasons without building on that strong foundation. While I think her character's great, I don't think she warrants Frieren levels of praise.

But honestly that's just my opinion. I'm glad a lot of people seem to love her and I wouldn't dream of taking that away from them. I don't really have a right to talk considering my favourite character is a big dumb panda who punches people and is silly. I'd hate for people to be telling me that he's overrated.

U right๐Ÿ˜”. My favourite character is practically a mary sue too(dont know the male term for tha). Still I gotta point it out since Apothecary Diaries receives this much praise for its characterization.
Jun 26, 1:09 AM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
Extice said:
Frieren being a masterpiece – you're damn right! Finally, something we can agree on. Good taste, even for a "not-a-Reddit-mod” but then you get to Maomao, and oh boy, do you go off the rails! "Maomao just guesses sh*t?" "Epiphany appears? Are we even watching the same anime? let’s be clear: Maomao isn't just guessing. She's an unbelievably sharp observer with a lifetime of practical knowledge about poisons, herbs, and human behavior. When she touches something and has an "epiphany," it's not magic! It's her brain connecting thousands of tiny, seemingly unrelated dots faster than you can say "Izanasolos's idiosyncratic, instantly iconic impressions inevitably inspire intense intestinal giggles, even from incredibly intimidating interdimensional invaders... and extice", she notices microscopic details, scents, subtle reactions, and then rapidly processes them based on her vast experience, that's not "dumb detective shows," that's what a genius investigator actually does. It's called deductive reasoning, you know, Maomao does it with less screw up and for the record, Light Yagami had a magical notebook! Maomao's only magic is her brain and her borderline unhealthy obsession with poisons. "Tension and suspense are non-existent because Maomao can do everything?" Have you seen the court she's in?! The danger isn't from a bad guy she can punch; it's from subtle plots, political intrigue, poisonings, and misinterpretations that could get innocent people, or even herself, killed! The tension comes from the intellectual challenge, the race against time, and the very real consequences of failure in a brutal imperial setting. It's a different kind of conflict, one that relies on your brain working, not just your eyes watching explosions. You like Vinland Saga S2 for drama? Great! That's a different kind of drama. Just because a show doesn't have a giant axe battle every episode doesn't mean it lacks conflict. Maomao's struggles are internal and intellectual, dealing with intricate puzzles and moral dilemmas. That's a masterclass in tension for anyone with a brain bigger than a pea. "don't-mess-with-me sass." it's true for Maomao too! she's got that quiet, unimpressed demeanor that tells everyone she's smarter than them without saying a word. It's called character and frankly, your "analysis" is exactly why I'm ranting about people needing to understand what a historical drama is before spouting off about "overrated" nonsense. Now if you will excuse me

we can really agree to disagree on how Maomao deduces her puzzles or whatever. She is presented as that much of a genius that can just connect completely UNRELATED clues together. But heres my 2 main problems:

1.
Maomao is a hypocrite when it comes to solving mysteries. She herself warns herself against conjecture, which is gaining a result without all possible facts. Take the concubine that was faking being crazy or whatever. Maomao speculates tha she faked her craziness and fell in front of the emperor while entertaining him to be with the man she loved after some bs rumours and dumb clues. And she is completely spot on. Like what?

2.
Idc Maomao is that incredibly intelligent. She's a goddamn mary sue thats the problem. You're not listening. She can solve everything. There is no tension because Maomao is the deux ex machina to clean everything up. What subtle plots? You mean the same redundant detective plot over and over again. The plot started off so interested with actual political intrigue and conflict like you mentioned. But after those few first eps, you only get another 2 eps with Lady Lihua tha really offer any political intrigue. The remaining eps(except with the ones with her past) all follow the same general formula for the ep, where Maomao, instead of the goddamn police(of tha time) or Jinshi the absolute useless deutaragonist, saves the day by solving a seemingly impossible case and is glazed by everyone. @Nirinbo(thanks man) quoted a lot of good points I agree with. You should really read those because it gives a lot more reasons about why Maomao really isnt that good of a character. Everyone loves Maomao when she's supposed to be this socially inept and awkward person yet she's adored by everyone and lusted over by Jinshi because she understands how people work? Despite having a low EQ? Make it make sense man.

Maomao cannot fail. Thats my problem. She cant grow. Her character constantly contradicts itself. Socially inept but incredibly loved and incredibly adept at manipulation. Supposedly ugly but lusted over by Jinshi despite being incredibly distant towards him at times. The way she solves her cases contradicts itself cuz she quite literally does what she is against and yet still ends up being correct. You'd think when a show warns a character against something, if that character does it, a consequence begets them. But not in Apothecary Diaries S1. Because Maomao can never be wrong. There cant be consequences for failure dont you get it, Maomao cant fail. Name one time she made a mistake. Name one time there was a consequence for failure like you just said. There are no instances of that. I got bored of seeing the same plot with the same plain character. But it seems you like the fact Maomao can do everything which is great for you. But a character that cannot fail is a character that cannot grow. Characters need what they believe or what they do to be challenged for them to develop. No great show ends up with a main character exactly the same as they began because wtf. Their ideologies, their strength, their beliefs. Something from tha has to give. You need failure to grow in real life and in fiction. And characters that dont grow are not complex characters at all. And thats how everyone perceives Maomao.
-Ezra-Jun 26, 1:38 AM
Jun 26, 1:09 AM
Offline
Jan 2024
5
Yes, finally some1 said that. Of course she's not a bad character but it feels like she's just solving mysteries. No emotions... Or an interesting personality... Kinda overrated.
Jun 26, 1:14 AM
Offline
Jan 2024
3
I like Maomao. Since it's her narrative, you kind of have to interpret her flaws for yourself. I usually see her as pesky, disrespectful, unfriendly and fearless. She's not courageous. Most of her relationships are weighed by something transactional imo. She's smart, but lacks emotional intelligence.
Good at observation, but only if she cares. Idk if I'm right, but that's just my opinion and what I see.
Jun 26, 2:08 AM
Offline
Dec 2022
30
the whole anime tbh.
Jun 26, 2:17 AM

Offline
Oct 2021
24
GRG3 said:
Christina_Leywin said:

[49%] [51%]

PINNACLE OF FICTION

REAL SHI๐Ÿ™Œ. Cant wait for the anime

a show is also coming with jisoo in it
Jun 26, 2:29 AM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
aniketttiw_ said:
GRG3 said:

REAL SHI๐Ÿ™Œ. Cant wait for the anime

a show is also coming with jisoo in it

damn i didnt even kn ORV was getting a live action adaptation. Might shed a tear rn.
Jun 26, 2:31 AM
Offline
Jan 2025
9
she's autistic, I like that
Jun 26, 2:40 AM
Offline
Jul 2022
236
rohan121 said:
Mao Mao is essentially a shoujo Mary Sue. Liking her character or not is more a matter of finding her cute or not.

or u can just like her character lol
Jun 26, 4:05 AM
Negator

Offline
Mar 2022
862
Thank god, this is exactly what we need, thank you. Everyone, make more “overrated” circle jerk forums
Jun 26, 4:27 AM
Offline
Feb 2025
10
While I really like Maomao, I completely understand your opinion. However, like someone has mentioned before, there's a bit of nuance you are lacking in your analysis.

The narrative of The Apothecary Diaries is mostly from Maomao POV. She is concerned mostly with not being trapped in the cage that is the Rear Palace. She obviously doesn't want to perform feminity or anything related to that. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with femininity, but it's not for everyone. She is also somewhat concerned about survival (which I totally agree with you. She seems too untouchable for us to actually fear for her, and that's something the show lacks) and freedom. She is not concerned with evolving, getting to know herself, and being better. She's fully dedicated to her craft (I wish they would focus more on that and the palace intringue and less on the detective stuff tbh). That's her first flaw. She doesn't care because to a point she thinks she is right all the time, she is even a bit arrogant imo. But because we, for the most part, get her POV, we have to be more critical of that.

She makes silly dicisions out of emotion (slapping someone higher in hierarchy than her, calling out Shenmei > but then I agree that she never suffers the consequences and it gets boring), I don't even think she is as rational as she think she is in her head. Maomao had a lot of flaws, but it's up for the viewer to catch them. That part of the narrative, I think, is cool. It also explains the "I shouldn't speak based on conjecture" and then does it anyway. It's just like anyone thinking, "I really shouldn't eat junk food." and then doing it anyway. But then, I agree with you that the lack of consequences is boring and prevents Maomao from thinking critically about her own conduct, hence no real tangible character growth, so far.

Something else to have in consideration is that The Apothecary Diaries has like 14 volumes, and we only got 4 of them adaptated. It's obviously a very slow paced show, I wouldn't be surprised to see it have more character growth later. This will be a slow burn, I am not even sure I like how they are adaptating the light novel so faithfully because the anime as a stand-alone from the LN has pacings issues. Not everyone is a source reader, and that is very apparent for those who aren't (me, because I have only read the first volume like two weeks ago).

However, Frieren suffers from the same way. She always wins. She is the final boss literally. What's the point of external conflict? Might as well, just completely focus on her internal conflict. This is an overarching anime issue imo.

To conclude, I loved Maomao from the first season. The second season was a bit disappointing, especially in terms of pacing, and the last episode that came out really pissed me off. We get all this build up and then... nothing mesmerising, that's for sure. The animation was trash half of the episode.

I'm tired of this idea that just because we love or like something, we can't criticise it. I will still watch it, I will probably even read the novels slowly. But it doesn't mean it's flawless, and it doesn't mean that everyone who criticises it is a hater.
Jun 26, 4:40 AM
Offline
Feb 2025
10
GRG3 said:
Extice said:
Frieren being a masterpiece – you're damn right! Finally, something we can agree on. Good taste, even for a "not-a-Reddit-mod” but then you get to Maomao, and oh boy, do you go off the rails! "Maomao just guesses sh*t?" "Epiphany appears? Are we even watching the same anime? let’s be clear: Maomao isn't just guessing. She's an unbelievably sharp observer with a lifetime of practical knowledge about poisons, herbs, and human behavior. When she touches something and has an "epiphany," it's not magic! It's her brain connecting thousands of tiny, seemingly unrelated dots faster than you can say "Izanasolos's idiosyncratic, instantly iconic impressions inevitably inspire intense intestinal giggles, even from incredibly intimidating interdimensional invaders... and extice", she notices microscopic details, scents, subtle reactions, and then rapidly processes them based on her vast experience, that's not "dumb detective shows," that's what a genius investigator actually does. It's called deductive reasoning, you know, Maomao does it with less screw up and for the record, Light Yagami had a magical notebook! Maomao's only magic is her brain and her borderline unhealthy obsession with poisons. "Tension and suspense are non-existent because Maomao can do everything?" Have you seen the court she's in?! The danger isn't from a bad guy she can punch; it's from subtle plots, political intrigue, poisonings, and misinterpretations that could get innocent people, or even herself, killed! The tension comes from the intellectual challenge, the race against time, and the very real consequences of failure in a brutal imperial setting. It's a different kind of conflict, one that relies on your brain working, not just your eyes watching explosions. You like Vinland Saga S2 for drama? Great! That's a different kind of drama. Just because a show doesn't have a giant axe battle every episode doesn't mean it lacks conflict. Maomao's struggles are internal and intellectual, dealing with intricate puzzles and moral dilemmas. That's a masterclass in tension for anyone with a brain bigger than a pea. "don't-mess-with-me sass." it's true for Maomao too! she's got that quiet, unimpressed demeanor that tells everyone she's smarter than them without saying a word. It's called character and frankly, your "analysis" is exactly why I'm ranting about people needing to understand what a historical drama is before spouting off about "overrated" nonsense. Now if you will excuse me

we can really agree to disagree on how Maomao deduces her puzzles or whatever. She is presented as that much of a genius that can just connect completely UNRELATED clues together. But heres my 2 main problems:

1.
Maomao is a hypocrite when it comes to solving mysteries. She herself warns herself against conjecture, which is gaining a result without all possible facts. Take the concubine that was faking being crazy or whatever. Maomao speculates tha she faked her craziness and fell in front of the emperor while entertaining him to be with the man she loved after some bs rumours and dumb clues. And she is completely spot on. Like what?

2.
Idc Maomao is that incredibly intelligent. She's a goddamn mary sue thats the problem. You're not listening. She can solve everything. There is no tension because Maomao is the deux ex machina to clean everything up. What subtle plots? You mean the same redundant detective plot over and over again. The plot started off so interested with actual political intrigue and conflict like you mentioned. But after those few first eps, you only get another 2 eps with Lady Lihua tha really offer any political intrigue. The remaining eps(except with the ones with her past) all follow the same general formula for the ep, where Maomao, instead of the goddamn police(of tha time) or Jinshi the absolute useless deutaragonist, saves the day by solving a seemingly impossible case and is glazed by everyone. @Nirinbo(thanks man) quoted a lot of good points I agree with. You should really read those because it gives a lot more reasons about why Maomao really isnt that good of a character. Everyone loves Maomao when she's supposed to be this socially inept and awkward person yet she's adored by everyone and lusted over by Jinshi because she understands how people work? Despite having a low EQ? Make it make sense man.

Maomao cannot fail. Thats my problem. She cant grow. Her character constantly contradicts itself. Socially inept but incredibly loved and incredibly adept at manipulation. Supposedly ugly but lusted over by Jinshi despite being incredibly distant towards him at times. The way she solves her cases contradicts itself cuz she quite literally does what she is against and yet still ends up being correct. You'd think when a show warns a character against something, if that character does it, a consequence begets them. But not in Apothecary Diaries S1. Because Maomao can never be wrong. There cant be consequences for failure dont you get it, Maomao cant fail. Name one time she made a mistake. Name one time there was a consequence for failure like you just said. There are no instances of that. I got bored of seeing the same plot with the same plain character. But it seems you like the fact Maomao can do everything which is great for you. But a character that cannot fail is a character that cannot grow. Characters need what they believe or what they do to be challenged for them to develop. No great show ends up with a main character exactly the same as they began because wtf. Their ideologies, their strength, their beliefs. Something from tha has to give. You need failure to grow in real life and in fiction. And characters that dont grow are not complex characters at all. And thats how everyone perceives Maomao.

I think that you shouldn't project your ideas about love onto everyone. I mean, you can, no one will stop you. However, everyone likes something different. It's very obvious and plausible why Jinshi likes Maomao: she doesn't fall for his facade, and she doesn't swoon over him (something he finds boring, obviously). She is a bit more of a challenge to him, a person who is used to having everything easily. He also seems to like to be teased. Hell, who knows? Maybe he likes the thrill of chasing. It may be an overdone type of attraction, but it's more than plausible and realistic. Tbh, sometimes I think it's not so much about Maomao. Anyone who would challenge Jinshi would get his attention. It just happens it was Maomao first, then he started to pay attention to her and maybe he also likes them quirky or something. That idea that only hot, cute, gorgeous girls get to have love is also super boring. So what she is plain?
Jun 26, 5:05 AM
Offline
Apr 2018
121
kurejii-yon-ke said:
she's autistic, I like that

finally someone here gets it
Jun 26, 5:20 AM
Offline
Nov 2016
4067
I finished S1 a couple of minutes ago and gave it a 7/10, it's a nice anime, but I got really bored in the 2nd half since Slice of Life ain't my thing, and this anime is mostly Slice of Life. I don't even know if I will watch S2, I'm still deciding, so while this anime is nice, I say it's overrated.

And while I did enjoy Maomao as a character, I have to agree with almost everything you said there, she's a Mary Sue, who knows it all and solves every single mystery because apparently she was MacGyver or Sherlock Holmes in her previous life, and when solving mysteries she's always right about it, and everyone depends on her because the other characters are basically useless.

So while I enjoyed that female character, she's not the best character on my list; I won't even place her in my top 10 female characters.
Jun 26, 5:20 AM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
nonsensicql said:
While I really like Maomao, I completely understand your opinion. However, like someone has mentioned before, there's a bit of nuance you are lacking in your analysis.

The narrative of The Apothecary Diaries is mostly from Maomao POV. She is concerned mostly with not being trapped in the cage that is the Rear Palace. She obviously doesn't want to perform feminity or anything related to that. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with femininity, but it's not for everyone. She is also somewhat concerned about survival (which I totally agree with you. She seems too untouchable for us to actually fear for her, and that's something the show lacks) and freedom. She is not concerned with evolving, getting to know herself, and being better. She's fully dedicated to her craft (I wish they would focus more on that and the palace intringue and less on the detective stuff tbh). That's her first flaw. She doesn't care because to a point she thinks she is right all the time, she is even a bit arrogant imo. But because we, for the most part, get her POV, we have to be more critical of that.

She makes silly dicisions out of emotion (slapping someone higher in hierarchy than her, calling out Shenmei > but then I agree that she never suffers the consequences and it gets boring), I don't even think she is as rational as she think she is in her head. Maomao had a lot of flaws, but it's up for the viewer to catch them. That part of the narrative, I think, is cool. It also explains the "I shouldn't speak based on conjecture" and then does it anyway. It's just like anyone thinking, "I really shouldn't eat junk food." and then doing it anyway. But then, I agree with you that the lack of consequences is boring and prevents Maomao from thinking critically about her own conduct, hence no real tangible character growth, so far.

Something else to have in consideration is that The Apothecary Diaries has like 14 volumes, and we only got 4 of them adaptated. It's obviously a very slow paced show, I wouldn't be surprised to see it have more character growth later. This will be a slow burn, I am not even sure I like how they are adaptating the light novel so faithfully because the anime as a stand-alone from the LN has pacings issues. Not everyone is a source reader, and that is very apparent for those who aren't (me, because I have only read the first volume like two weeks ago).

However, Frieren suffers from the same way. She always wins. She is the final boss literally. What's the point of external conflict? Might as well, just completely focus on her internal conflict. This is an overarching anime issue imo.

To conclude, I loved Maomao from the first season. The second season was a bit disappointing, especially in terms of pacing, and the last episode that came out really pissed me off. We get all this build up and then... nothing mesmerising, that's for sure. The animation was trash half of the episode.

I'm tired of this idea that just because we love or like something, we can't criticise it. I will still watch it, I will probably even read the novels slowly. But it doesn't mean it's flawless, and it doesn't mean that everyone who criticises it is a hater.

Yh okay, I understand where you coming from. With Frieren, she kind of is like Maomao. In the sense that they are apathetic and have low emotional intelligence. Except the latter is actually applied to Frieren very well since she finds it hard to understand connections despite wanting to. Maomao js does because shes so smart that she understands how people work, despite her low emotional intelligence. Its really contradictory. And the other part that acc makes Frieren really complex is her internal struggle and Maomao really doesnt have that much of tha. Of course, Frieren is kind of OP when it comes to fights

I also know its just been like 4 volumes adapted and theres more. Thats why I wanted someone whos maybe read the LN or Manga to tell if there is some sort of like development in her character where she meets some type of conflict but maybe I should have explicitly stated that. I cannot be asked now. Thanks man you acc kinda got wha I was tryna say
Jun 26, 5:31 AM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
nonsensicql said:
GRG3 said:

we can really agree to disagree on how Maomao deduces her puzzles or whatever. She is presented as that much of a genius that can just connect completely UNRELATED clues together. But heres my 2 main problems:

1.
Maomao is a hypocrite when it comes to solving mysteries. She herself warns herself against conjecture, which is gaining a result without all possible facts. Take the concubine that was faking being crazy or whatever. Maomao speculates tha she faked her craziness and fell in front of the emperor while entertaining him to be with the man she loved after some bs rumours and dumb clues. And she is completely spot on. Like what?

2.
Idc Maomao is that incredibly intelligent. She's a goddamn mary sue thats the problem. You're not listening. She can solve everything. There is no tension because Maomao is the deux ex machina to clean everything up. What subtle plots? You mean the same redundant detective plot over and over again. The plot started off so interested with actual political intrigue and conflict like you mentioned. But after those few first eps, you only get another 2 eps with Lady Lihua tha really offer any political intrigue. The remaining eps(except with the ones with her past) all follow the same general formula for the ep, where Maomao, instead of the goddamn police(of tha time) or Jinshi the absolute useless deutaragonist, saves the day by solving a seemingly impossible case and is glazed by everyone. @Nirinbo(thanks man) quoted a lot of good points I agree with. You should really read those because it gives a lot more reasons about why Maomao really isnt that good of a character. Everyone loves Maomao when she's supposed to be this socially inept and awkward person yet she's adored by everyone and lusted over by Jinshi because she understands how people work? Despite having a low EQ? Make it make sense man.

Maomao cannot fail. Thats my problem. She cant grow. Her character constantly contradicts itself. Socially inept but incredibly loved and incredibly adept at manipulation. Supposedly ugly but lusted over by Jinshi despite being incredibly distant towards him at times. The way she solves her cases contradicts itself cuz she quite literally does what she is against and yet still ends up being correct. You'd think when a show warns a character against something, if that character does it, a consequence begets them. But not in Apothecary Diaries S1. Because Maomao can never be wrong. There cant be consequences for failure dont you get it, Maomao cant fail. Name one time she made a mistake. Name one time there was a consequence for failure like you just said. There are no instances of that. I got bored of seeing the same plot with the same plain character. But it seems you like the fact Maomao can do everything which is great for you. But a character that cannot fail is a character that cannot grow. Characters need what they believe or what they do to be challenged for them to develop. No great show ends up with a main character exactly the same as they began because wtf. Their ideologies, their strength, their beliefs. Something from tha has to give. You need failure to grow in real life and in fiction. And characters that dont grow are not complex characters at all. And thats how everyone perceives Maomao.

I think that you shouldn't project your ideas about love onto everyone. I mean, you can, no one will stop you. However, everyone likes something different. It's very obvious and plausible why Jinshi likes Maomao: she doesn't fall for his facade, and she doesn't swoon over him (something he finds boring, obviously). She is a bit more of a challenge to him, a person who is used to having everything easily. He also seems to like to be teased. Hell, who knows? Maybe he likes the thrill of chasing. It may be an overdone type of attraction, but it's more than plausible and realistic. Tbh, sometimes I think it's not so much about Maomao. Anyone who would challenge Jinshi would get his attention. It just happens it was Maomao first, then he started to pay attention to her and maybe he also likes them quirky or something. That idea that only hot, cute, gorgeous girls get to have love is also super boring. So what she is plain?

I dont really care about the fact Maomao is supposedly ugly with her freckles on. I js brought that up because you having the not conventionally attractive girl being chased by the most attractive dude/dudes in the show is very self insert trope. (I think they might even be a love triangle between Maomao, Jinshi and some new character in the future I wouldnt be surprised.)
Everyone goes into love deeply. But a relationship where one person constantly chases the other is gonna be a successful relationship. In s1, for 24 eps, Maomao never even closes the distance between her and Jinshi. And apparently their dynamic doesnt even change tha much in S2. So when she is very plain towards him, and dry and damn near distant at times, it makes zero sense in my head why Jinshi is well attracted to her. Because if its not her looks then it should be her personality. But Maomao acts like she doesnt even like Jinshi. But maybe you're right, Im pushing my ideas of love and using tha to base how I view Maomao and Jinshi's relationship. Maybe.
Jun 26, 5:32 AM
Offline
Aug 2022
425
MusashiKarlsefni said:
Thank god, this is exactly what we need, thank you. Everyone, make more “overrated” circle jerk forums

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚. God forbid a person criticises a show or character you like.
Jun 26, 6:09 AM
Offline
Feb 2025
10
GRG3 said:
nonsensicql said:

I think that you shouldn't project your ideas about love onto everyone. I mean, you can, no one will stop you. However, everyone likes something different. It's very obvious and plausible why Jinshi likes Maomao: she doesn't fall for his facade, and she doesn't swoon over him (something he finds boring, obviously). She is a bit more of a challenge to him, a person who is used to having everything easily. He also seems to like to be teased. Hell, who knows? Maybe he likes the thrill of chasing. It may be an overdone type of attraction, but it's more than plausible and realistic. Tbh, sometimes I think it's not so much about Maomao. Anyone who would challenge Jinshi would get his attention. It just happens it was Maomao first, then he started to pay attention to her and maybe he also likes them quirky or something. That idea that only hot, cute, gorgeous girls get to have love is also super boring. So what she is plain?

I dont really care about the fact Maomao is supposedly ugly with her freckles on. I js brought that up because you having the not conventionally attractive girl being chased by the most attractive dude/dudes in the show is very self insert trope. (I think they might even be a love triangle between Maomao, Jinshi and some new character in the future I wouldnt be surprised.)
Everyone goes into love deeply. But a relationship where one person constantly chases the other is gonna be a successful relationship. In s1, for 24 eps, Maomao never even closes the distance between her and Jinshi. And apparently their dynamic doesnt even change tha much in S2. So when she is very plain towards him, and dry and damn near distant at times, it makes zero sense in my head why Jinshi is well attracted to her. Because if its not her looks then it should be her personality. But Maomao acts like she doesnt even like Jinshi. But maybe you're right, Im pushing my ideas of love and using tha to base how I view Maomao and Jinshi's relationship. Maybe.

Tbh, it's fair that their dynamic doesn't work for you. We don't have to like the same things, and I personally feel very lukewarm towards their relationship (except the frog scene, I have to say that it was hot as hell for me, haha). It's just that it doesn't come as a part of her Mary Sue character traits for me. If there was a live triangle, I would probably feel that. I would love a pseudo live triangle where the other dude doesn't care for Maomao at all and just wants to mess with Jinshi, that would bring some dynamic. Another character just head over heals with her, I really hope it doesn't happen haha
Jun 26, 7:26 AM
Offline
Apr 2020
77
True its kinda annoying how she acts
Jun 26, 7:56 AM
Offline
Nov 2020
35
as someone who read all volumes of the novel, I have to agree with you, not only her character becomes boring after many arcs, she constantly finds herself surrounded by kings, queens and all sorts of high ranking people yet she gets to correct them and teaches them lessons? lol, she's never wrong and has no flaws, yes you're right! and after starting the volume 15 I was done with it, the whole plot just became a little stupid at this point, there's no progress with many other characters or the whatever story they're trying to tell here but, they're going to keep releasing many more LN volumes and anime seasons because fans never learn and are going to support this type of bs franchises anyways... the story is good at times yeah, but not great is general
Jun 26, 8:02 AM
Offline
Dec 2020
1
this gotta be rage baiting
Jun 26, 8:13 AM
Negator

Offline
Mar 2022
862
GRG3 said:
MusashiKarlsefni said:
Thank god, this is exactly what we need, thank you. Everyone, make more “overrated” circle jerk forums

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚. God forbid a person criticises a show or character you like.

I’m perfectly fine with that. It’s just the “overrated” tag being stamped on everything that is incredibly annoying to me. The intention comes across as questioning why people like something, more so than a genuine critique.
Jun 26, 8:49 AM
Negator

Offline
Mar 2022
862
It also kinda feels pointless to refute anything, cuz will it really change your mind on how you feel about her and the story if people explain it all to you, instead of you realizing it while watching? It won’t be the same, and you won’t get the feeling others did while watching.

Will saying that she failed in saving Lihua’s baby in time change your mind? A baby died cuz she failed, is that not enough? She failed in passing the court lady exam, she was outsmarted by Suirei and she escaped etc…

But it’s not like she breaks the case wide open from the jump, like ever. A lot of failures come across before a minor success. She might solve a little aspect of something, but completely misses the bigger picture. She also relies on others a bunch, she doesn’t always do it all herself. She isn’t perfect, but she is intelligent and does manage to not come out completely mangled. She at least has a background that justifies her intelligence pretty well.

This response is kind of a mess and not really detailed cuz I’m not trying to spend forever retorting everything, just throwing the point out there that the series and her character is pretty misconstrued, but people think what they think about it and it is what it is.
Jun 26, 9:16 AM

Offline
Apr 2021
3470
Characters don’t need to have “flaws” to be written well. I too often see this complaint, but that has never been a standard for characters in any play, book, comic, show, movie, animation, etc etc.

Diaries is an excellently written show with a main character that fits in the plot as needed, plus she is not always perfect in everything or invincible, she has been wrong and injured.

And I don’t need you to respond, I’m not interested in an ongoing argument that is pointless.
Note: I don’t lazily watch 3-5 episodes, biasedly compare to other anime, or unfairly judge by surface level similarities. With every anime I start, I watch the entire series, both Japanese Sub & English Dub, then judge each anime based on what they present, to give an honest and fair rating.

Jun 26, 10:16 AM
Offline
May 2025
7
Maomao is in an environment (S1) where she is heavily protected. She doesn’t speak her mind as to her assessments until they are founded. She often states in her mind this same statement. In later seasons (after S1) and in the coming seasons (LN info), she is placed into situations where she is not protected. She is far from able to physically protect herself but, when it comes to intelligence, she can put 2 and 2 together without coming across as full of herself. With that aside, she does put herself into dangerous situations (S2+) that she gradually realizes but can’t get out of it by herself due to her lack of physical ability. If you got the wrong impression, I’m sorry but she is far from OP. She is smart but far from perfect. Hence, this makes her a great female role model. If you can get past the first season, you would see this fact but possibly not. AD is not for everyone.
Jun 26, 10:19 AM
Offline
Jul 2024
246
Agree. But she's cool and relatable
Jun 26, 10:21 AM

Offline
Sep 2016
22035
I love her mixed personality, she's stoic about hardship, enthusiastic about her passion, pragmatic about reality, confident yet humble about her extraordinary abilities, and amusingly grossed out by men, which is relatable as a straight man myself.
*kappa*
Jun 26, 10:33 AM
Offline
Sep 2020
17
I also felt the same way when I watch the show, Maomao is too op, if she hadn’t been kidnapped and sold, many people would have died. And the fact that Jinshi always comes up to her and ask for advice kinda annoyed me. W opinion!!
superSaiyan100Jun 26, 10:43 AM
Jun 26, 11:02 AM
Offline
May 2016
2080
Reply to -Ezra-
ktg said:
Yes, I still remember when she was able to win over the guard and didn't attack her...

Why did you make this thread if you haven't watched the show?

bruhh why is it always you man? ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ im so done and what are you even talking about? The servant for Lady Lihua that was basically poisoning her? See how like you ignored everything else I said๐Ÿ˜ญ๐Ÿ˜ญ.
@GRG3 Yeah... It's always me. It's not like the whole thread is about comments that refuting you...

Also, great argument. Your statement was how perfect she is. I pointed out that is a false statement because she got beaten by a soldier and she couldn't solve that situation alone. What is your response? You started talking about a completely different thing, which is a fallacy.
You also mentioned how good she is in chess, which is also false, because we know from the show that she lost.

So, the question is, why are you lying?
Pages (3) [1] 2 3 »

More topics from this board

Poll: » Kusuriya no Hitorigoto Episode 24 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )

Stark700 - Mar 23, 2024

348 by Heliac123 »»
Yesterday, 11:44 AM

Poll: » Kusuriya no Hitorigoto Episode 16 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )

Stark700 - Jan 27, 2024

109 by 0207xander »»
Oct 11, 4:14 PM

Poll: » Kusuriya no Hitorigoto Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )

KANLen09 - Oct 21, 2023

205 by M1kasaYu1 »»
Sep 4, 10:31 AM

Poll: » Kusuriya no Hitorigoto Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )

Softhenic03 - Nov 25, 2023

203 by ooklah »»
Sep 2, 9:47 PM

Poll: » Kusuriya no Hitorigoto Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )

Softhenic03 - Oct 28, 2023

247 by Vetny »»
Sep 2, 4:33 AM
Itโ€™s time to ditch the text file.
Keep track of your anime easily by creating your own list.
Sign Up Login