New
Dec 24, 2024 1:25 PM
#1
| I don't wanna just keep watching OVA's and movies, but most of the TV anime people talk about of that era is 50 episodes at least. |
Dec 24, 2024 1:50 PM
#2
| well first let me look at my completed list from this era. Cowboy Bebop - 26 eps [But I assume you've watched that already] [same with Trigun/Berserk/Evangelion/Lain Kareshi Kanojo - 26 eps Legend of Basara - 12 eps The Irresponsible Captain Tylor - 26 eps [from my planned list we got] Sasurai no Taiyou - 26 eps Master Keaton - 24 eps Kidou Senkan Nadesico - 26 eps [If I looked corectly it is not a big mecha franchise XD] Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor - 16 eps [it does branch out later, but the ep count still stands XD] Glass no Kamen - 23 eps [well there is a version from 2005 but still] Eat-Man and Eat-Man '98 - 12 eps + 12 eps = 24 eps Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova] and I guess the first Black Jack has 12 eps but that lates branches out, that's all from me XD. |
| [โ๐ฎโโโ๐ฒโ โ๐ฆโ โ๐ตโโ๐ทโโ๐ดโโ๐ซโโ๐ชโโ๐ธโโ๐ธโโ๐ฎโโ๐ดโโ๐ณโโ๐ฆโโ๐ฑโ โ๐ญโโ๐บโโ๐ธโโ๐งโโ๐ฆโโ๐ณโโ๐ฉโโ๐ดโ โ๐จโโ๐ดโโ๐ฑโโ๐ฑโโ๐ชโโ๐จโโ๐นโโ๐ดโโ๐ทโ] |
Dec 24, 2024 2:40 PM
#3
https://myanimelist.net/anime.php?cat=0&q=&type=1&score=0&status=2&p=0&r=0&sm=0&sd=0&sy=1917&em=0&ed=0&ey=2000&c[0]=a&c[1]=b&c[2]=c&c[3]=d&c[4]=f&c[5]=g&o=4&w=1&o=4&w=2 |
Dec 24, 2024 8:38 PM
#4
| Be the change you want to be, and make your own stack! You can easily check the seasonal anime pages, but it will take a while and there may be over 50 titles. I will do my best to help out with recommendations. https://myanimelist.net/anime/5476/Fushigi_na_Melmo https://myanimelist.net/anime/6868/Wansa-kun https://myanimelist.net/anime/4853/Tezuka_Osamu_no_Don_Dracula https://myanimelist.net/anime/23351/Youkaiden_Nekome_Kozou https://myanimelist.net/anime/3327/Giant_Gorg https://myanimelist.net/anime/3660/Mahou_no_Idol_Pastel_Yumi https://myanimelist.net/anime/326/Petshop_of_Horrors I've watched a lot of 90s TV anime as well, but most of my 80s and older favorites are movies. I don't even like very many OVAs... |
LucifrostDec 25, 2024 4:05 PM
| ใใฎ็ฎใ ใใฎ็ฎ๏ผ |
Dec 24, 2024 9:11 PM
#5
| The list found here shows all TV series that meet those criteria and have complete English-subtitled releases available. There's a total of 198, with only 2 from the 60s, 29 from the 70s, and 28 from the 80s, with the rest from the 90s. Szczelajo said: Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova] That "8 ep OVA," Bubblegum Crisis 2033, is an alternate-setting series (or rather, the original setting, with 2040 being the alternate setting) -- it's not directly related to BGC 2040, in terms of plot progression. However, it is roughly equal to a 14-episode series in terms of runtime. |
Dec 24, 2024 10:46 PM
#6
Reply to Zalis
The list found here shows all TV series that meet those criteria and have complete English-subtitled releases available. There's a total of 198, with only 2 from the 60s, 29 from the 70s, and 28 from the 80s, with the rest from the 90s.
That "8 ep OVA," Bubblegum Crisis 2033, is an alternate-setting series (or rather, the original setting, with 2040 being the alternate setting) -- it's not directly related to BGC 2040, in terms of plot progression. However, it is roughly equal to a 14-episode series in terms of runtime.
Szczelajo said:
Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova]
Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova]
That "8 ep OVA," Bubblegum Crisis 2033, is an alternate-setting series (or rather, the original setting, with 2040 being the alternate setting) -- it's not directly related to BGC 2040, in terms of plot progression. However, it is roughly equal to a 14-episode series in terms of runtime.
| @Zalis What caused everyone to decide to make sub-50 episode anime during 1999 in specific? |
Dec 25, 2024 1:04 AM
#7
Reply to Zalis
The list found here shows all TV series that meet those criteria and have complete English-subtitled releases available. There's a total of 198, with only 2 from the 60s, 29 from the 70s, and 28 from the 80s, with the rest from the 90s.
That "8 ep OVA," Bubblegum Crisis 2033, is an alternate-setting series (or rather, the original setting, with 2040 being the alternate setting) -- it's not directly related to BGC 2040, in terms of plot progression. However, it is roughly equal to a 14-episode series in terms of runtime.
Szczelajo said:
Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova]
Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova]
That "8 ep OVA," Bubblegum Crisis 2033, is an alternate-setting series (or rather, the original setting, with 2040 being the alternate setting) -- it's not directly related to BGC 2040, in terms of plot progression. However, it is roughly equal to a 14-episode series in terms of runtime.
| @Zalis ah thank u, good to know :D Gonna remember this when I actually sit down to watch this someday |
| [โ๐ฎโโโ๐ฒโ โ๐ฆโ โ๐ตโโ๐ทโโ๐ดโโ๐ซโโ๐ชโโ๐ธโโ๐ธโโ๐ฎโโ๐ดโโ๐ณโโ๐ฆโโ๐ฑโ โ๐ญโโ๐บโโ๐ธโโ๐งโโ๐ฆโโ๐ณโโ๐ฉโโ๐ดโ โ๐จโโ๐ดโโ๐ฑโโ๐ฑโโ๐ชโโ๐จโโ๐นโโ๐ดโโ๐ทโ] |
Dec 25, 2024 9:43 AM
#8
Dec 25, 2024 1:45 PM
#9
Using the list provided, here are the ones that caught my attention (Higher bias towards 1-cour anime):
|
Dec 25, 2024 1:56 PM
#10
Reply to thewiru
@Zalis
What caused everyone to decide to make sub-50 episode anime during 1999 in specific?
What caused everyone to decide to make sub-50 episode anime during 1999 in specific?
| @thewiru The fact that the advent of the internet changed the viewing habits. Each era has the media format most suited for it's technology. And before the 2000s, weekly TV programs running for a year were the norm for kids TV. And OVA for adults. There were simply fewer shows, but with more investment into the production. Free your mind and apply the thinking of the era you look at to find the best entries. Most good pre-2000s TV shows were long, shorter ones usually mean they were canceled prematurely and thus are crap. Exceptions exist, ofc, like Master Keaton or Neon Genesis. But they are rare. Another important factor: production wasn't digital yet, so the investment into character designs, training the animators to the style, background drawings etc. were much heavier investments. And finally, pre-Netflix era did their high end art as movies. Today an anime movie is usually an extension of a TV format, but back in the day they were often standalone and high effort. |
inimDec 25, 2024 2:28 PM
Dec 25, 2024 2:04 PM
#11
Reply to thewiru
Using the list provided, here are the ones that caught my attention (Higher bias towards 1-cour anime):
- Dororo to Hyakkimaru
- Lupin III
- Ace wo Nerae
- Cutie Honey
- Uchuu Senkan Yamato
- Takarajima
- Dirty Pair
- Slayers
- Shinpi no Sekai El-Hazard TV
- Tenkuu no Escaflowne
- Elf wo Karu Mono-tachi
- Eat-Man
- Kyuuketsuhime Miyu TV
- Bannou Bunka Neko-Musume 1998
- Seihou Bukyou Outlaw Star
- Lodoss-tou Senki Eiyuu Kishi Den
- Weiß Kreuz
- Devilman Lady
- To Heart
- Arc the Lad
- Kakyuusei TV
- Mahoutsukai Tai TV
- Koutetsu Tenshi Kurumi
- Ima Soko ni Iru Boku
- Di Gi Charat
inimDec 25, 2024 3:55 PM
Dec 25, 2024 2:11 PM
#12
| well u see?... people who watched anime back then didn't have the attention span of a tik tok monkey and could easily watch countless more...while new modern anime fans are riddled with ADHD and cant seem to concentrate or sit still for more than a few minutes stick to watching your modern isekai cgdct 12 episode slop... |
ItachiDeltaForceDec 25, 2024 2:21 PM
Dec 25, 2024 2:45 PM
#13
Reply to inim
@thewiru
https://myanimelist.net/anime/33/Kenpuu_Denki_Berserk
https://myanimelist.net/anime/30/Shinseiki_Evangelion
https://myanimelist.net/anime/6/Trigun
https://myanimelist.net/anime/302/Mirai_Shounen_Conan
https://myanimelist.net/anime/589/Ginga_Nagareboshi_Gin
https://myanimelist.net/anime/145/Kareshi_Kanojo_no_Jijou
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1060/Oruchuban_Ebichu
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1483/Master_Keaton
https://myanimelist.net/anime/58/Blue_Gender
https://myanimelist.net/anime/593/Mugen_no_Ryvius
https://myanimelist.net/anime/339/Serial_Experiments_Lain
https://myanimelist.net/anime/290/Seikai_no_Monshou
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1025/Kachou_Ouji
https://myanimelist.net/anime/621/Night_Walker__Mayonaka_no_Tantei
https://myanimelist.net/anime/978/Change_Getter_Robo__Sekai_Saigo_no_Hi
thewiru said:
Ace wo Nerae
Uchuu Senkan Yamato
Takarajima
Dirty Pair
Slayers
Tenkuu no Escaflowne
Lodoss-tou Senki Eiyuu Kishi Den
Devilman Lady
Ima Soko ni Iru Boku
These are fine. AlsoAce wo Nerae
Uchuu Senkan Yamato
Takarajima
Dirty Pair
Slayers
Tenkuu no Escaflowne
Lodoss-tou Senki Eiyuu Kishi Den
Devilman Lady
Ima Soko ni Iru Boku
https://myanimelist.net/anime/33/Kenpuu_Denki_Berserk
https://myanimelist.net/anime/30/Shinseiki_Evangelion
https://myanimelist.net/anime/6/Trigun
https://myanimelist.net/anime/302/Mirai_Shounen_Conan
https://myanimelist.net/anime/589/Ginga_Nagareboshi_Gin
https://myanimelist.net/anime/145/Kareshi_Kanojo_no_Jijou
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1060/Oruchuban_Ebichu
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1483/Master_Keaton
https://myanimelist.net/anime/58/Blue_Gender
https://myanimelist.net/anime/593/Mugen_no_Ryvius
https://myanimelist.net/anime/339/Serial_Experiments_Lain
https://myanimelist.net/anime/290/Seikai_no_Monshou
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1025/Kachou_Ouji
https://myanimelist.net/anime/621/Night_Walker__Mayonaka_no_Tantei
https://myanimelist.net/anime/978/Change_Getter_Robo__Sekai_Saigo_no_Hi
inim said: These are fine. Also Kenpuu Denki Berserk Shinseiki Evangelion Trigun Mirai Shounen Conan Ginga Nagareboshi Gin Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou Oruchuban Ebichu Master Keaton Blue Gender Mugen no Ryvius Serial Experiments Lain Already watched Eva and Lain. As for Mugen no Ryvius, I dropped it on episode 14 because it began to become very repetitive (There was never an "expansion in scope", which isn't a problem in itself, but the current scope had already exhausted itself, so at one point they just decided to... repeat the initial premise of "You're stranded in space in a ship and have to ration food"), pacing problems. For Berserk, I read the manga. There's a silly reason I avoided anime like Berserk, Trigun (Outlaw Star, even), which seems pretty childish in retrospect: I associated those anime to be "Toonamicore", to be associated with a very specific kind of fan from the very-late-90's, 2000's and early 2010's: The "manime" people that disliked moe and made sure to spout something of the likes of "I like anime, I just don't like the weird stuff". No complaints for any of the rest. In fact, I don't know how I didn't saw KareKano and Conan in that list. |
Dec 25, 2024 2:46 PM
#14
Reply to Szczelajo
well first let me look at my completed list from this era.
Cowboy Bebop - 26 eps [But I assume you've watched that already] [same with Trigun/Berserk/Evangelion/Lain
Kareshi Kanojo - 26 eps
Legend of Basara - 12 eps
The Irresponsible Captain Tylor - 26 eps
[from my planned list we got]
Sasurai no Taiyou - 26 eps
Master Keaton - 24 eps
Kidou Senkan Nadesico - 26 eps [If I looked corectly it is not a big mecha franchise XD]
Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor - 16 eps [it does branch out later, but the ep count still stands XD]
Glass no Kamen - 23 eps [well there is a version from 2005 but still]
Eat-Man and Eat-Man '98 - 12 eps + 12 eps = 24 eps
Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova]
and I guess the first Black Jack has 12 eps but that lates branches out, that's all from me XD.
Cowboy Bebop - 26 eps [But I assume you've watched that already] [same with Trigun/Berserk/Evangelion/Lain
Kareshi Kanojo - 26 eps
Legend of Basara - 12 eps
The Irresponsible Captain Tylor - 26 eps
[from my planned list we got]
Sasurai no Taiyou - 26 eps
Master Keaton - 24 eps
Kidou Senkan Nadesico - 26 eps [If I looked corectly it is not a big mecha franchise XD]
Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor - 16 eps [it does branch out later, but the ep count still stands XD]
Glass no Kamen - 23 eps [well there is a version from 2005 but still]
Eat-Man and Eat-Man '98 - 12 eps + 12 eps = 24 eps
Bubblegum Crisis 2040 - 26 eps [+ 8 ep ova]
and I guess the first Black Jack has 12 eps but that lates branches out, that's all from me XD.
| @Szczelajo The 16-ep entry for Patlabor is a sequel of the 47-ep TV series; so it's a 63-ep endeavour overall. Original OVA (7 eps) and movies is sort of a different timeline. |
Dec 25, 2024 3:00 PM
#15
Reply to thewiru
inim said:
These are fine. Also
Kenpuu Denki Berserk
Shinseiki Evangelion
Trigun
Mirai Shounen Conan
Ginga Nagareboshi Gin
Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou
Oruchuban Ebichu
Master Keaton
Blue Gender
Mugen no Ryvius
Serial Experiments Lain
These are fine. Also
Kenpuu Denki Berserk
Shinseiki Evangelion
Trigun
Mirai Shounen Conan
Ginga Nagareboshi Gin
Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou
Oruchuban Ebichu
Master Keaton
Blue Gender
Mugen no Ryvius
Serial Experiments Lain
Already watched Eva and Lain.
As for Mugen no Ryvius, I dropped it on episode 14 because it began to become very repetitive (There was never an "expansion in scope", which isn't a problem in itself, but the current scope had already exhausted itself, so at one point they just decided to... repeat the initial premise of "You're stranded in space in a ship and have to ration food"), pacing problems.
For Berserk, I read the manga.
There's a silly reason I avoided anime like Berserk, Trigun (Outlaw Star, even), which seems pretty childish in retrospect: I associated those anime to be "Toonamicore", to be associated with a very specific kind of fan from the very-late-90's, 2000's and early 2010's: The "manime" people that disliked moe and made sure to spout something of the likes of "I like anime, I just don't like the weird stuff".
No complaints for any of the rest.
In fact, I don't know how I didn't saw KareKano and Conan in that list.
thewiru said: Moe was not invented yet then. It's really important to look at a period trough the eyes of that period, rather than retrofitting later ideas. Art is timeless, but it's creation has a clear context and is always tied to the ideas and esthetics of their creation time. And a good director remains a good director, regardless which time's period he is forced to appeal to due to $$$. Only a very, very few artists ignore their context and then can create really innovative shows.The "manime" people that disliked moe and made sure to spout something of the likes of "I like anime, I just don't like the weird stuff". Edit: added https://myanimelist.net/anime/290/Seikai_no_Monshou https://myanimelist.net/anime/1025/Kachou_Ouji https://myanimelist.net/anime/621/Night_Walker__Mayonaka_no_Tantei https://myanimelist.net/anime/978/Change_Getter_Robo__Sekai_Saigo_no_Hi |
inimDec 25, 2024 3:55 PM
Dec 25, 2024 3:25 PM
#16
Reply to Unowen
@Szczelajo The 16-ep entry for Patlabor is a sequel of the 47-ep TV series; so it's a 63-ep endeavour overall. Original OVA (7 eps) and movies is sort of a different timeline.
| @Unowen ight thank u, good to know :D |
| [โ๐ฎโโโ๐ฒโ โ๐ฆโ โ๐ตโโ๐ทโโ๐ดโโ๐ซโโ๐ชโโ๐ธโโ๐ธโโ๐ฎโโ๐ดโโ๐ณโโ๐ฆโโ๐ฑโ โ๐ญโโ๐บโโ๐ธโโ๐งโโ๐ฆโโ๐ณโโ๐ฉโโ๐ดโ โ๐จโโ๐ดโโ๐ฑโโ๐ฑโโ๐ชโโ๐จโโ๐นโโ๐ดโโ๐ทโ] |
Dec 25, 2024 3:46 PM
#17
Reply to Lucifrost
@thewiru
Presumably the same thing that led to all the 13 episode seasons we see nowadays.
Presumably the same thing that led to all the 13 episode seasons we see nowadays.
| @Lucifrost It was mainly the shift away from the advertising/sponsored* day/evening-timeslot model for TV series, and towards the production committee "rent out infomercial timeslots" system we all know and love(?) today. Afaik Those Who Hunt Elves, from Fall '96, is considered the first example of modern latenight anime. Also, for anyone looking at Ebichu and Di Gi Charat, be aware that they have short episode lengths, so they might not qualify under than "longer than movie or typical OVA" criteria. * For an example of this, check out 90s long-runners like Kodocha and Marmalade Boy -- there's a ton of random toys/gadgets that characters will repeatedly use and showcase for the audience. |
Dec 25, 2024 4:03 PM
#18
Reply to Zalis
@Lucifrost It was mainly the shift away from the advertising/sponsored* day/evening-timeslot model for TV series, and towards the production committee "rent out infomercial timeslots" system we all know and love(?) today. Afaik Those Who Hunt Elves, from Fall '96, is considered the first example of modern latenight anime.
Also, for anyone looking at Ebichu and Di Gi Charat, be aware that they have short episode lengths, so they might not qualify under than "longer than movie or typical OVA" criteria.
* For an example of this, check out 90s long-runners like Kodocha and Marmalade Boy -- there's a ton of random toys/gadgets that characters will repeatedly use and showcase for the audience.
Also, for anyone looking at Ebichu and Di Gi Charat, be aware that they have short episode lengths, so they might not qualify under than "longer than movie or typical OVA" criteria.
* For an example of this, check out 90s long-runners like Kodocha and Marmalade Boy -- there's a ton of random toys/gadgets that characters will repeatedly use and showcase for the audience.
| @Zalis Makes sense, I knew those came to be due to the massive success of Evangelion (Which caused enough angry phone calls and letters due to it's content that Cowboy Bebop had to suffer from it). The reason for that is that Japan didn't use a very strict "Rating system" on TV, it being mostly based on "Common sense based in your time-slot" (May I remind you, Eva was broadcast in the same timeslot that was previous occupied by the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon). The success of the new format catalyzed the death of the OVA format. |
Dec 25, 2024 4:08 PM
#19
Dec 25, 2024 4:12 PM
#20
Reply to thewiru
Using the list provided, here are the ones that caught my attention (Higher bias towards 1-cour anime):
- Dororo to Hyakkimaru
- Lupin III
- Ace wo Nerae
- Cutie Honey
- Uchuu Senkan Yamato
- Takarajima
- Dirty Pair
- Slayers
- Shinpi no Sekai El-Hazard TV
- Tenkuu no Escaflowne
- Elf wo Karu Mono-tachi
- Eat-Man
- Kyuuketsuhime Miyu TV
- Bannou Bunka Neko-Musume 1998
- Seihou Bukyou Outlaw Star
- Lodoss-tou Senki Eiyuu Kishi Den
- Weiß Kreuz
- Devilman Lady
- To Heart
- Arc the Lad
- Kakyuusei TV
- Mahoutsukai Tai TV
- Koutetsu Tenshi Kurumi
- Ima Soko ni Iru Boku
- Di Gi Charat
| @thewiru I must point out that the anidb list is incomplete and is missing some translated anime I previously recommended. In fact I edited my previous recs to add an additional title I noticed is missing. Also, the tennis anime has a remake without an English translation. You should check if it has been translated into another language you understand. And if it has, ask people who have seen it which version is better. You will not get an answer on MAL because nobody here has seen the remake. https://myanimelist.net/anime/8542/Shin_Ace_wo_Nerae |
| ใใฎ็ฎใ ใใฎ็ฎ๏ผ |
Dec 25, 2024 4:19 PM
#21
Reply to inim
thewiru said:
The "manime" people that disliked moe and made sure to spout something of the likes of "I like anime, I just don't like the weird stuff".
Moe was not invented yet then. It's really important to look at a period trough the eyes of that period, rather than retrofitting later ideas. Art is timeless, but it's creation has a clear context and is always tied to the ideas and esthetics of their creation time. And a good director remains a good director, regardless which time's period he is forced to appeal to due to $$$. Only a very, very few artists ignore their context and then can create really innovative shows.The "manime" people that disliked moe and made sure to spout something of the likes of "I like anime, I just don't like the weird stuff".
Edit: added
https://myanimelist.net/anime/290/Seikai_no_Monshou
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1025/Kachou_Ouji
https://myanimelist.net/anime/621/Night_Walker__Mayonaka_no_Tantei
https://myanimelist.net/anime/978/Change_Getter_Robo__Sekai_Saigo_no_Hi
inim said: Moe was not invented yet then. It's really important to look at a period trough the eyes of that period, rather than retrofitting later ideas. Moe was definitely already invented by the 90's, lol (Let alone the 2000's and early 2010's), the term itself was invented in the very late 80's, but the concept existed prior to that under other terms. But yes, in this case I should've used the term "bishoujo" instead from what I meant to say. I do not hate the period, though, my main point was how I was bothered by the "bishoujo erasure" from those kind of fans as a way to try to de-legitimize the growth of moe at the end of the 90's to the start of the 2010's. Was it a dumb reason for me to not watch those anime? Well, yes. inim said: Change Getter Robo Sekai Saigo no Hi I remember trying to get into Mecha around 2015/2016 and meeting an oldschool mechafag on the Brazillian LoL forums that recommended me this. I don't exactly remember the reason, but I think I dropped it after 2-3 episodes, one of the reasons I gave at the time being that the caracters seemed coolers and made better actions scenes while outside of their mecha rather than inside then (Also, later people would tell me that this rec was a mistake for a newcomer because it relies a lot of references to other Getter Robo series. I don't know if that's true or not). A couple time later, though, I went to watch Gunbuster and managed to like it. Maybe I should give it another try. |
Dec 25, 2024 4:20 PM
#22
Reply to Lucifrost
@thewiru
I must point out that the anidb list is incomplete and is missing some translated anime I previously recommended. In fact I edited my previous recs to add an additional title I noticed is missing.
Also, the tennis anime has a remake without an English translation. You should check if it has been translated into another language you understand. And if it has, ask people who have seen it which version is better. You will not get an answer on MAL because nobody here has seen the remake.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/8542/Shin_Ace_wo_Nerae
I must point out that the anidb list is incomplete and is missing some translated anime I previously recommended. In fact I edited my previous recs to add an additional title I noticed is missing.
Also, the tennis anime has a remake without an English translation. You should check if it has been translated into another language you understand. And if it has, ask people who have seen it which version is better. You will not get an answer on MAL because nobody here has seen the remake.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/8542/Shin_Ace_wo_Nerae
| @Lucifrost Lucifrost said: Ace wo Narae (1973) was directed by Osamu Dezaki with art direction by Akio Sugino. This dynamic duo created some of the all time masterpieces of anime (Ashite no Joe, Versailles no Bara, Takarajima, Oniisama e...). There probaly is a good reason why nobody watches the remake. You simply can't snow the snowman.Also, the tennis anime has a remake without an English translation. |
Dec 25, 2024 4:24 PM
#23
Reply to inim
@Lucifrost
Lucifrost said:
Also, the tennis anime has a remake without an English translation.
Ace wo Narae (1973) was directed by Osamu Dezaki with art direction by Akio Sugino. This dynamic duo created some of the all time masterpieces of anime (Ashite no Joe, Versailles no Bara, Takarajima, Oniisama e...). There probaly is a good reason why nobody watches the remake. You simply can't snow the snowman.Also, the tennis anime has a remake without an English translation.
| @inim Oh, hey, it's the random "()" bug I had some days ago. No idea how it went away, surprised that you still have it. |
Dec 25, 2024 4:29 PM
#24
Reply to thewiru
inim said:
Moe was not invented yet then. It's really important to look at a period trough the eyes of that period, rather than retrofitting later ideas.
Moe was not invented yet then. It's really important to look at a period trough the eyes of that period, rather than retrofitting later ideas.
Moe was definitely already invented by the 90's, lol (Let alone the 2000's and early 2010's), the term itself was invented in the very late 80's, but the concept existed prior to that under other terms.
But yes, in this case I should've used the term "bishoujo" instead from what I meant to say.
I do not hate the period, though, my main point was how I was bothered by the "bishoujo erasure" from those kind of fans as a way to try to de-legitimize the growth of moe at the end of the 90's to the start of the 2010's.
Was it a dumb reason for me to not watch those anime? Well, yes.
inim said:
Change Getter Robo Sekai Saigo no Hi
Change Getter Robo Sekai Saigo no Hi
I remember trying to get into Mecha around 2015/2016 and meeting an oldschool mechafag on the Brazillian LoL forums that recommended me this.
I don't exactly remember the reason, but I think I dropped it after 2-3 episodes, one of the reasons I gave at the time being that the caracters seemed coolers and made better actions scenes while outside of their mecha rather than inside then (Also, later people would tell me that this rec was a mistake for a newcomer because it relies a lot of references to other Getter Robo series. I don't know if that's true or not).
A couple time later, though, I went to watch Gunbuster and managed to like it.
Maybe I should give it another try.
| @thewiru thewiru said: Getter Robo is pretty much the predecessor of Gurren Lagann and about as chaotic. The main differences are: Getter Robo is darker, and in the end they throw planets at each other and not galaxies. It's an an aquired taste for sure, and one of a kind.I remember trying to get into Mecha around 2015/2016 and meeting an oldschool mechafag on the Brazillian LoL forums that recommended me this. I don't exactly remember the reason, but I think I dropped it after 2-3 episodes thewiru said: Shocking revelation: It's a Japanese word and as such hundreds of years old. There may have been cute character designs before, but the moe formula was only invented by Azumanga, then perfected by KyoAni under Yamada-sensei (K-On, Suzumia).Moe was definitely already invented by the 90's, lol (Let alone the 2000's and early 2010's), the term itself was invented in the very late 80's thewiru said: I'd honestly define 2009 (K-On) as the first modern moe, the 2000-2010s were dominated by other genres.the growth of moe at the end of the 90's to the start of the 2010's. |
inimDec 25, 2024 4:41 PM
Dec 25, 2024 4:43 PM
#25
Reply to inim
@thewiru
thewiru said:
I remember trying to get into Mecha around 2015/2016 and meeting an oldschool mechafag on the Brazillian LoL forums that recommended me this.
I don't exactly remember the reason, but I think I dropped it after 2-3 episodes
Getter Robo is pretty much the predecessor of Gurren Lagann and about as chaotic. The main differences are: Getter Robo is darker, and in the end they throw planets at each other and not galaxies. It's an an aquired taste for sure, and one of a kind.I remember trying to get into Mecha around 2015/2016 and meeting an oldschool mechafag on the Brazillian LoL forums that recommended me this.
I don't exactly remember the reason, but I think I dropped it after 2-3 episodes
thewiru said:
Moe was definitely already invented by the 90's, lol (Let alone the 2000's and early 2010's), the term itself was invented in the very late 80's
Shocking revelation: It's a Japanese word and as such hundreds of years old. There may have been cute character designs before, but the moe formula was only invented by Azumanga, then perfected by KyoAni under Yamada-sensei (K-On, Suzumia).Moe was definitely already invented by the 90's, lol (Let alone the 2000's and early 2010's), the term itself was invented in the very late 80's
thewiru said:
the growth of moe at the end of the 90's to the start of the 2010's.
I'd honestly define 2009 (K-On) as the first modern moe, the 2000-2010s were dominated by other genres.the growth of moe at the end of the 90's to the start of the 2010's.
inim said: Shocking revelation: It's a Japanese word and as such hundreds of years old. There may have been cute character designs before, but the moe formula was only invented by Azumanga, then perfected by KyoAni under Yamada-sensei (K-On, Suzumia). I mean, yes, that's why I should've used the word "bishoujo" instead. That being said: No, the word Moe isn't hundreds of years old, it was never used in any text prior to the late 80's. Either way, we're just splitting hairs on this issue. |
Dec 25, 2024 4:53 PM
#26
Reply to thewiru
inim said:
Shocking revelation: It's a Japanese word and as such hundreds of years old. There may have been cute character designs before, but the moe formula was only invented by Azumanga, then perfected by KyoAni under Yamada-sensei (K-On, Suzumia).
Shocking revelation: It's a Japanese word and as such hundreds of years old. There may have been cute character designs before, but the moe formula was only invented by Azumanga, then perfected by KyoAni under Yamada-sensei (K-On, Suzumia).
I mean, yes, that's why I should've used the word "bishoujo" instead.
That being said: No, the word Moe isn't hundreds of years old, it was never used in any text prior to the late 80's.
Either way, we're just splitting hairs on this issue.
thewiru said: Please be careful with big words like "never". https://jisho.org/word/%E8%90%8C%E3%81%88No, the word Moe isn't hundreds of years old, it was never used in any text prior to the late 80's. The word well exists for long as "budding, sprouting" but then became slang for a certain type of character design for underage girls in anime. From plant to ink and paper, but the word is the same. In the original Japanese, moe refers to the way plants sprout (grow) (→Explained in #Original "moe"). On the other hand, as a slang term in otaku culture, it is mainly used to express a certain kind of strong affection for characters in anime, manga, video games, etc. In youth slang derived from it, the same nuance is used for a wider range of subjects Source: Google Translate of https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%90%8C%E3%81%88?oldid=42758216 And bishoujo ("pretty girl") is a totally different design style, just saying. Same difference as "beautiful" and "cute" in English. ![]() ![]() Bishoujo (left, from Sailor Moon) emphasizes the female side, Moe (right, from Hyouka) the child like features of what canonically are often girls of a similar fictional age. |
inimDec 25, 2024 5:43 PM
Dec 25, 2024 6:11 PM
#27
Reply to inim
thewiru said:
No, the word Moe isn't hundreds of years old, it was never used in any text prior to the late 80's.
Please be careful with big words like "never". https://jisho.org/word/%E8%90%8C%E3%81%88No, the word Moe isn't hundreds of years old, it was never used in any text prior to the late 80's.
The word well exists for long as "budding, sprouting" but then became slang for a certain type of character design for underage girls in anime. From plant to ink and paper, but the word is the same.
In the original Japanese, moe refers to the way plants sprout (grow) (→Explained in #Original "moe").
On the other hand, as a slang term in otaku culture, it is mainly used to express a certain kind of strong affection for characters in anime, manga, video games, etc. In youth slang derived from it, the same nuance is used for a wider range of subjects
On the other hand, as a slang term in otaku culture, it is mainly used to express a certain kind of strong affection for characters in anime, manga, video games, etc. In youth slang derived from it, the same nuance is used for a wider range of subjects
Source: Google Translate of https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%90%8C%E3%81%88?oldid=42758216
And bishoujo ("pretty girl") is a totally different design style, just saying. Same difference as "beautiful" and "cute" in English.


Bishoujo (left, from Sailor Moon) emphasizes the female side, Moe (right, from Hyouka) the child like features of what canonically are often girls of a similar fictional age.
inim said: Please be careful with big words like "never". https://jisho.org/word/%E8%90%8C%E3%81%88 The word well exists for long as "budding, sprouting" but then became slang for a certain type of character design for underage girls in anime. From plant to ink and paper, but the word is the same. Huh, I just noticed that English Wikipedia cites alternative origins for the term, but those aren't in the JP Wikipedia article. I guess I'll have to be careful with my words once again: "Moe (In it's slang meaning) was never used in any text prior to the late 80's". But yes, I guess you could say I "gambled too much and lost" since, if you take what I said literally, I was wrong (Unless I went full schizo and tried to find a source that ่ใin it's classical meaning was less than 200 years old). |
Dec 25, 2024 6:24 PM
#28
Reply to inim
thewiru said:
No, the word Moe isn't hundreds of years old, it was never used in any text prior to the late 80's.
Please be careful with big words like "never". https://jisho.org/word/%E8%90%8C%E3%81%88No, the word Moe isn't hundreds of years old, it was never used in any text prior to the late 80's.
The word well exists for long as "budding, sprouting" but then became slang for a certain type of character design for underage girls in anime. From plant to ink and paper, but the word is the same.
In the original Japanese, moe refers to the way plants sprout (grow) (→Explained in #Original "moe").
On the other hand, as a slang term in otaku culture, it is mainly used to express a certain kind of strong affection for characters in anime, manga, video games, etc. In youth slang derived from it, the same nuance is used for a wider range of subjects
On the other hand, as a slang term in otaku culture, it is mainly used to express a certain kind of strong affection for characters in anime, manga, video games, etc. In youth slang derived from it, the same nuance is used for a wider range of subjects
Source: Google Translate of https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%90%8C%E3%81%88?oldid=42758216
And bishoujo ("pretty girl") is a totally different design style, just saying. Same difference as "beautiful" and "cute" in English.


Bishoujo (left, from Sailor Moon) emphasizes the female side, Moe (right, from Hyouka) the child like features of what canonically are often girls of a similar fictional age.
inim said: And bishoujo ("pretty girl") is a totally different design style, just saying. Same difference as "beautiful" and "cute" in English. From the English Wikipedia: In Japanese popular culture, a bishลjo (็พๅฐๅฅณ, lit. "beautiful girl"), also romanized as bishojo or bishoujo, is a cute girl character. "Beautiful" and "Cute" have such a large overlap in English that they're often used interchangeably (Save for some small nuances of each), something that doesn't happen with the equivalent words of my main language. Also, the focus on differentiating the two two (Moe and Bishoujo) was more of a thing that started in the late 90's. Not to mention, the Japanese Wikipedia EXPLICITLY uses the term moe(่ใ) as an example of Bishoujo. |
Dec 26, 2024 5:29 AM
#29
"Omishi Mahou Gekijou: Riskyโ
Safety"![]() 1999-2000, 24 episodes. It has cute characters. |
Dec 26, 2024 8:11 AM
#30
Reply to thewiru
inim said:
And bishoujo ("pretty girl") is a totally different design style, just saying. Same difference as "beautiful" and "cute" in English.
And bishoujo ("pretty girl") is a totally different design style, just saying. Same difference as "beautiful" and "cute" in English.
From the English Wikipedia:
In Japanese popular culture, a bishลjo (็พๅฐๅฅณ, lit. "beautiful girl"), also romanized as bishojo or bishoujo, is a cute girl character.
"Beautiful" and "Cute" have such a large overlap in English that they're often used interchangeably (Save for some small nuances of each), something that doesn't happen with the equivalent words of my main language.
Also, the focus on differentiating the two two (Moe and Bishoujo) was more of a thing that started in the late 90's.
Not to mention, the Japanese Wikipedia EXPLICITLY uses the term moe(่ใ) as an example of Bishoujo.
thewiru said: Let's cut this short and say the concepts bishoujo and moe are related. They are not identical or synonymous, easily seen by the fact there are two words in both EN and JP. Just try to tell your mother she is beautiful, then that she is cute. Wait for the reaction. Moe emphasizes the early pubescent aspect, it can only apply to young teens - not your mother. In that sense it can be seen as an euphemism for Hebephilia, it has a sexual co-notation "beauty" completely lacks."Beautiful" and "Cute" have such a large overlap in English that they're often used interchangeabl Beauty (็พ, as used in bishoujo and bishounen) is a wider concept than either of kawaii (ใใใใ, related to little), moe (่ใ, pubescent attractive girl, related to sprouting) and chibi (็ฆฟใณ, little, child-like). https://jisho.org/search/beautiful%20%23words shows half a dozen translations / kanji for nuances. When drawing middle to high-school aged girls (=shoujo), there is overlap in use because of age. But in general, the concepts (the reason for attractivity) are fundamentally different. There's no blessing on arguing with translated words, languages are not 1:1. ็พๅฐๅฅณ (bishoujo) can be split into the kanji beauty-little-woman, ่่ฝ (Moe) uses totally different kanji from the botanical realm: sprout, bud, early sign; beginning; starting to appear. The difference here is striking in JP. There is a reason why moe is used as a loan-word in EN: because this hides chronosexual taboo co-notations of "Hebe-*" ("jailbait" in slang). It's not fully synonymous to this, though, for details see "protec" logic. tl;dr In https://youtu.be/fM2cYLH27R8 Mio is both bishoujo (classic beauty) and moe. Ritsu is moe, but not bishoujo - she's a tomboy stereotype. Forain said: That's a G-rated show, i.e. for children. I haven't seen it, but it may be chibi rather than moe because of this. Depends on the degree of sexual co-notation used. If one uses MAL's CGDT tag and sorts in reverse order, the three trope makers of the genre are Azumanga Daiou The Animation (2002), Binzume Yousei (2003) and Ichigo Mashimaro (2005). It's debateable if either K-On! (2009) or LuckyโStar (2007) is the Trope Codifier. "Omishi Mahou Gekijou: Riskyโ Safety" |
inimDec 26, 2024 10:02 AM
Dec 26, 2024 12:44 PM
#31
Reply to inim
thewiru said:
"Beautiful" and "Cute" have such a large overlap in English that they're often used interchangeabl
Let's cut this short and say the concepts bishoujo and moe are related. They are not identical or synonymous, easily seen by the fact there are two words in both EN and JP. Just try to tell your mother she is beautiful, then that she is cute. Wait for the reaction. Moe emphasizes the early pubescent aspect, it can only apply to young teens - not your mother. In that sense it can be seen as an euphemism for Hebephilia, it has a sexual co-notation "beauty" completely lacks."Beautiful" and "Cute" have such a large overlap in English that they're often used interchangeabl
Beauty (็พ, as used in bishoujo and bishounen) is a wider concept than either of kawaii (ใใใใ, related to little), moe (่ใ, pubescent attractive girl, related to sprouting) and chibi (็ฆฟใณ, little, child-like). https://jisho.org/search/beautiful%20%23words shows half a dozen translations / kanji for nuances. When drawing middle to high-school aged girls (=shoujo), there is overlap in use because of age. But in general, the concepts (the reason for attractivity) are fundamentally different.
There's no blessing on arguing with translated words, languages are not 1:1. ็พๅฐๅฅณ (bishoujo) can be split into the kanji beauty-little-woman, ่่ฝ (Moe) uses totally different kanji from the botanical realm: sprout, bud, early sign; beginning; starting to appear. The difference here is striking in JP. There is a reason why moe is used as a loan-word in EN: because this hides chronosexual taboo co-notations of "Hebe-*" ("jailbait" in slang). It's not fully synonymous to this, though, for details see "protec" logic.
tl;dr In https://youtu.be/fM2cYLH27R8 Mio is both bishoujo (classic beauty) and moe. Ritsu is moe, but not bishoujo - she's a tomboy stereotype.
Forain said:
"Omishi Mahou Gekijou: Riskyโ Safety"
That's a G-rated show, i.e. for children. I haven't seen it, but it may be chibi rather than moe because of this. Depends on the degree of sexual co-notation used. If one uses MAL's CGDT tag and sorts in reverse order, the three trope makers of the genre are Azumanga Daiou The Animation (2002), Binzume Yousei (2003) and Ichigo Mashimaro (2005). It's debateable if either K-On! (2009) or LuckyโStar (2007) is the Trope Codifier. "Omishi Mahou Gekijou: Riskyโ Safety"
| @inim I see, in that case, what would be the correct way for to make the initial point that I wanted to make? (That I preferred the already-ubiquitous-in-the-90's-and-00's concept of cute and/or pretty girl characters more than I liked anime that were closer to western aesthetics, but the fact that proportionally more of the later was brought to the west compared to the former made people who were fans of the later think it was more representative of anime than it actually was) |
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