[Oshi No Ko]
Reply to Riper97
i really dont know why people are complaining about the ending, this was a story of Revenge. Goal fulfilled story ends. im really Happy with It and i really liked the manga overall
| @Riper97 I think you missed the part where Aqua says the purpose of his life was not revenge but to protect his sister at the end of 162. You realize he only killed Kamiki because he was trying to kill Ruby, not to take revenge on him for killing Ai? |
| If people feel unsatisfy with current ending, let me say, what is possibility if Aqua still alive? He is murderer and it still ruin Ruby future. And what if Hikari Kamiki still alive. He still find way to kill Ruby. Very sly, there is no evidence he killing Ruby because he use people to kill her. And he just more clever than aqua 😂. It still bad ending too. No matter what route he choose, it still worse ending than current one. At least this ending best route as possible. I means, Ruby need to move on from bitter past. Tell me, any people who still alive never move on with their bitter past. I know, people want ship ending but Oshi No Ko is not romance manga at first place. 🤦 |
Reply to premonitiative
Maybe it's because I was never that invested in Oshi no Ko but I thought the ending was fine. People say that it was all for nothing but...that's the point of a tragedy. The pointlessness and futility of it is the exact point, I'd think. The messed-up thing is that Aqua grows and yet throws it all the way nonetheless. People say that "I get why Aqua dying could make for a good ending, it's just that the way it was done is bad" but...how else would it have been done? It seems that there were still plenty of people who were touched by the events of the last few chapters, between people sympathizing for Himekawa, people feeling sad for Akane when she laid flowers on the beach, people feeling sad for Miyako being forced to attend her own son's funeral...so what is it, really?
But with that being said there are undeniable problems with the story. Pacing is all over the place, some characters ultimately don't do much, a lot of things occur off-screen...but even so that doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing that this portion of the story gets right.
Frankly I'm ready for this to be another situation with AOT, wherein not only is the execution done better in the anime but people will also see what the ending actually does well and evaluate it based on that and not based on what everyone who wants to hate it says with all the vitriol they can muster in their souls.
But with that being said there are undeniable problems with the story. Pacing is all over the place, some characters ultimately don't do much, a lot of things occur off-screen...but even so that doesn't mean there's absolutely nothing that this portion of the story gets right.
Frankly I'm ready for this to be another situation with AOT, wherein not only is the execution done better in the anime but people will also see what the ending actually does well and evaluate it based on that and not based on what everyone who wants to hate it says with all the vitriol they can muster in their souls.
| @premonitiative Something being a tragedy doesn't inherently make it well-done. Taking the logistic elements aside, that Aqua had a million other options he had to kill Kamiki and completely get away with it without harming Ruby's reputation, ending like this goes against so much of what the series supposedly stood for. It's not just that it feels like Aqua learned nothing from his journey and takes a tragic action, it's that the series vindicates him for taking this route. Sure he momentarily questions if he made the wrong choice, but everything after that rewards his reckless suicide plot by having society fall for his scheme hook, line and sinker, and the most it's questioned afterward is Akane's "why won't you take me with you?". And with this last chapter Ruby's just supposed to grin and bear all of the emotions from the trauma of losing the most important person in her life again and even weaponize it to become this musical saint. The framing of this presents it as a triumphant moment to be celebrated, even when it's her going down the same path in mentality that made Ai miserable. It's not just that the ending presents a tragedy, it's that it glorifies it. Attack on Titan's ending is incredibly messy in execution but at the very least it (much moreso in the anime) unambiguously paints Eren's actions as being terrible and shortsighted. This ending meanwhile presents its characters' actions in a way where the meaning behind it is completely hollow at best or incredibly dangerous at worst, especially in a series that supposedly stood directly against that before. Maybe I'm being a little cynical about this since I've always had a pretty negative opinion of Oshi no Ko, but I thought I'd make my exact issues with the execution more apparent since leaving the discussion at the "It's a tragedy so it's good" vs "it's a tragedy so it's bad" baseline wouldn't take it anywhere. |
| Literally my reaction I really enjoyed most of the manga, but damn... that ending was ass. Disappointing as fuck. Yea i give it a 8/10  |
| I voted 'no" but I really wish there was more nuance in the poll because I would probably lean to the ending being a 3/5 but that is with the knowledge that a happy ending, which would lead me to say I "like" the ending would have been a betrayal to the story and themes of the manga. I would probably moved the ending to a 4/5 if it was paced better, but there was a Hey Answerman on Anime News Network that asked about why manga have rushed endings that made me more forgiving of manga writers for just misjudging how much is left. I honestly think the anime can pace it better and clean it up a bit and make the ending much better. In conclusion, the ending is fine-good, but the manga itself at certain points was one of the best manga ever, and the list of manga that have endings on that level can probably be counted on two hands. edit: I do want to mention one thing though. People have been bitching about how bad the ending of this manga was for over a year I feel like, so it sort of just became noise for a long time to the point where I feel like we are probably a year away from actually being able to have a legit conversation about the ending because the wounds are very fresh and the fans got way into a shipping war that the manga was not really about in the long run. |
| My anime list |
Reply to sharydow
I can see why people would have issues for that. "hikaru wasn’t developed enough to feel like a serious threat" is certainly a much better argument than a lot of other stuff I’ve read. From "it’s bad because Kana couldn’t confess to Aqua" (Huh??) to "it’s bad because Ruby is lying now" (???).
But it also explains why I have no issue with that. I never felt like hikaru was that important of a character. He’s a bad guy, as in he’s done terrible stuff, but barely an antagonist, as in putting obstacles on the MC’s path, so he doesn’t need the development of an antagonist. He’s aware of the existence of Ruby since the Tokyo Blade arc and he does.... nothing about it. He’s not an antagonist, he doesn’t have any kind of interaction with the main characters. He’s seen killing other people who have nothing to do with Aqua and Ruby, that very specifically describe his character while very specifically not having any influence on the plot. He’s like a living MacGuffin his purpose is to be found and killed not to mess with Aqua. His existence and the fact he is seen so close to Ruby so many time gives a sense of danger, but that’s it.
It could have been a great mind game Code Geass style with Hikaru moving his pieces and Aqua moving his. Then Hikaru would be a full fledged antagonist that needs development. But it wasn’t that kind of story. In Oshi no Ko he’s just the goal and an ominous danger. And for that purpose we NEED to know as little as possible, in the sense that we don’t know what he wants nor what he’s capable of. If we know too much, we would know that Ruby is safe.
But if the ominous danger didn’t convince you and you wanted something more tangible that’s understandable. I can see that.
For me, I’m so much invest in Aqua’s inner struggle, his sense of sacrifice and all, that I gave very little thought of if it was necessary or not or how real was the danger. If Aqua FEELS like the threat is serious and he has no other choice, it’s enough for me.
But it also explains why I have no issue with that. I never felt like hikaru was that important of a character. He’s a bad guy, as in he’s done terrible stuff, but barely an antagonist, as in putting obstacles on the MC’s path, so he doesn’t need the development of an antagonist. He’s aware of the existence of Ruby since the Tokyo Blade arc and he does.... nothing about it. He’s not an antagonist, he doesn’t have any kind of interaction with the main characters. He’s seen killing other people who have nothing to do with Aqua and Ruby, that very specifically describe his character while very specifically not having any influence on the plot. He’s like a living MacGuffin his purpose is to be found and killed not to mess with Aqua. His existence and the fact he is seen so close to Ruby so many time gives a sense of danger, but that’s it.
It could have been a great mind game Code Geass style with Hikaru moving his pieces and Aqua moving his. Then Hikaru would be a full fledged antagonist that needs development. But it wasn’t that kind of story. In Oshi no Ko he’s just the goal and an ominous danger. And for that purpose we NEED to know as little as possible, in the sense that we don’t know what he wants nor what he’s capable of. If we know too much, we would know that Ruby is safe.
But if the ominous danger didn’t convince you and you wanted something more tangible that’s understandable. I can see that.
For me, I’m so much invest in Aqua’s inner struggle, his sense of sacrifice and all, that I gave very little thought of if it was necessary or not or how real was the danger. If Aqua FEELS like the threat is serious and he has no other choice, it’s enough for me.
| @sharydow Agreed. I feel like Hikaru embodies an issue I have with OnK as a whole, that the industry itself never actually challenges Aqua that much in his revenge quest. Most people he works with are extremely cooperative and when he's set on something it usually goes off without a hitch. This is something that Hikaru could've easily been the solution to, if he served as more of a direct challenge for Aqua to overcome. He also could've helped to make Aqua's decision of the murder-suicide plot feel more believable if the active threat he posed acted as a counter-balance to all of his loved ones encouraging him to not throw his life away in pursuit of his revenge plot instead of the one-sided feel of it here making the choice come off extremely strangely. As is, the most he impedes any progress is not allowing his name to be used for the movie (where even then he says that the film will "socially destroy" him when he's released so it didn't really matter) and the embarrassing attempt at a fakeout during the interview. Like you said he acts more like a goal post in an extremely linear board game than an actual threat. (Plus he could've been a better overarching looming force over the entire narrative if Aka put any focus on the murder mystery side of the story at all before end of the Tokyo Blade arc) |
Reply to Riper97
i really dont know why people are complaining about the ending, this was a story of Revenge. Goal fulfilled story ends. im really Happy with It and i really liked the manga overall
| @Riper97 It was not a revenge manga. It was a manga about how people in show business have to hide personal problems in order to inspire and motivate fans. Hence the theme of "lies". And also that people need to fight the burden of problems, regrets and pain that pull them back, processing their traumas. That's why the abrupt abandonment of it and the formal bad ending with the return of the status quo angered many people so much. Aqua and Ruby were supposed to have a happy future by overcoming their traumas and letting go of the burden of their past lives, but they only ended up stepping on the gas pedal even harder and either dying in a pointless sacrifice or accepting the things they wanted to escape from throughout the story. |
RobertBobertNov 13, 3:00 PM
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| I think I just felt detached by the end, which is a far cry from how invested I was in the beginning. I stopped caring, even though I wished I still cared. |
Reply to sharydow
RobertBobert said:
It was not a revenge manga. It was a manga about how people in show business have to hide personal problems in order to inspire and motivate fans.
It was not a revenge manga. It was a manga about how people in show business have to hide personal problems in order to inspire and motivate fans.
True
RobertBobert said:
Aqua and Ruby were supposed to have a happy future by overcoming their traumas and letting go of the burden of their past lives
Aqua and Ruby were supposed to have a happy future by overcoming their traumas and letting go of the burden of their past lives
STRONG disagree. No I absolutely never expected a happy ending for them. Their mom was nothing but suffering, the supporting characters are nothing but suffering, the minor characters are suffering too, why did you expect the main cast to be happy?
No, the show is about lying for the sake of entertainment. Ai did it, but was suffering. We thought maybe she was wrong, maybe Ruby was on the right track by deciding not to lie? But Ruby was wrong, she was fooling to think she could do this truthfully and too innocent. Entertainment IS lying, you need to protect yourself and you need to inspire hope, you can’t be 100% faithful. So Ruby lies now, but at least she doesn’t seem to suffer as much as Ai. That’s the ending. It answers the main theme of the manga perfectly.
You can call it rushed, but no it absolutely couldn’t have been a happy ending.
| @sharydow So, if the characters suffer, that mean they have to suffer and have to end badly and you can't feel sympathy for them? Sorry man, you're 10-15 years late with this immature level of edgeness. And yes, get rid of this immature categoricalness, your opinion is no better or worse than the opinion of other people and is not a dogma. |
RobertBobertNov 13, 3:39 PM
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Reply to Vileblood_Nobu
I don't think it was a necessarily bad ending, but I wish aka spent a few more chapters dragging out the epilogue(?) a bit longer instead of just having Akane summarise the events in retrospect.
| @Vileblood_Nobu Aka just didn't care. He realized that he had screwed up with Aqua's death and he tried to end it as quickly as possible to wash his hands of it. |
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Reply to sharydow
@RobertBobert Yes, literally.
Sad story tends to have a sad end (with a happy end last minute sometimes, but still mostly sad) and dark psychological stories have dark ending. Yes the entire manga had this vibe from chapter 1. I didn’t know who would die between Ruby and Aqua (and Aka almost got me in that one chapter end), but I absolutely knew it wouldn’t end well. It COULDN’T end well. And it was foolish to think otherwise.
Sad story tends to have a sad end (with a happy end last minute sometimes, but still mostly sad) and dark psychological stories have dark ending. Yes the entire manga had this vibe from chapter 1. I didn’t know who would die between Ruby and Aqua (and Aka almost got me in that one chapter end), but I absolutely knew it wouldn’t end well. It COULDN’T end well. And it was foolish to think otherwise.
| @sharydow Again, you're overgeneralizing things and trying to follow the logic that dark stories justify any dark ending. This is youthful maximalism. Story has spent a long time trying to convince us that the characters have a chance and that they will get the relief they deserve from their suffering. Damn, Aqua literally admitted his mistakes a couple of chapters before the finale and realized the full value of his life and personality. But he simply threw it away in 2-3 chapters in favor of thoughtless and senseless self-sacrifice. This is a very poorly written and rushed ending and no edgelord excuse like “well, this is a dark story, therefore any dark ending is justified, and those who disagree are fools” will justify it. |
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Reply to sharydow
@RobertBobert
So you literally are in Aka’s head now? Why would you think he would regret this choice? There are a lot of thing we can discuss and not everything is perfect, but the fact that Aqua dies, is absolutely, certainly, not in this world or any other world a bad decision.
RobertBobert said:
He realized that he had screwed up with Aqua's death
He realized that he had screwed up with Aqua's death
So you literally are in Aka’s head now? Why would you think he would regret this choice? There are a lot of thing we can discuss and not everything is perfect, but the fact that Aqua dies, is absolutely, certainly, not in this world or any other world a bad decision.
| @sharydow Dude, if you continue to talk to me in this tone, taking my words out of context or pressuring me with categorical theses of the “it’s true because I said so” level, I will simply stop answering you. |
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Reply to sharydow
@RobertBobert Until there is a testimony or an interview. For all we know, this is the ending Aka wanted. It is YOU who goes on saying stuff like Aka didn’t care, he realized he screwed up.
That’s wishful thinking.
That’s wishful thinking.
| @sharydow Oh, now you're asking for sources where Aka confirms criticism of his poor writing and problematic attitude towards the quality of his work, lmao. No, sorry dude, I have absolutely no time for this demagoguery and authoritarian argument for the sake of argument. This is my last answer to you, goodbye. |
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| Haven't seen a single good argument on why it was a good ending. Completely rushed tripe. You can really feel how little Aka cared about this manga toward the end. |
Reply to nigelthekettle
I don’t know why people are complaining. It’s a realistic manga (with the exception of the beginning) did you expect Aqua to come back a second time? He fulfilled his goal, and so did Ruby and all of B Komachi. Shonenheads smh
| @nigelthekettle A realistic manga where the character abruptly forgets all his experiences and suddenly acts suicidal, choosing the most delusional decision possible? Where exactly is his attempt to avoid problems actually creating problems, traumatizing his loved ones and the person most important to him, the one he wants to protect? Where at the very end it is revealed that his actions led to his sister giving up and becoming what she was trying to avoid the entire manga? Where the author have to retroactively describe the danger of the enemy in order to explain the disappointing victory over him? Yes, shonenheads, sure. @Ramza_Paradise Haven't you had enough arguments that "this is a dark manga, so the dark ending made sense by default" or that regardless of the development of the plot and its ideas, it is normal for the characters to continue to suffer for the sake of suffering, because this is a dark manga (c)? Although my favorite is when people just blame critics for not liking bad endings. |
RobertBobertNov 13, 4:33 PM
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