| Unfortunately isekai is popular. I also agree they are just repeats of the same story again and again. Same as the demon lord anime which have been done 100s of times now. |
Reply to Quadruple_Oi
perseii said:
but I cannot understand why people watch so many of them. Do the fans of this kind of anime really watch multiple of these every season?
but I cannot understand why people watch so many of them. Do the fans of this kind of anime really watch multiple of these every season?
Trying to put myself in their shoes, one contributing factor to this may be how the repetitive themes and formula of this genre have made it a "safe choice" not only for authors, but also for viewers as well. By knowing that you'll probably get some sort of harem, some enemy probably in the form of a demon lord, a cheat skill unlock, standard medieval setting, etc., people who like these themes will probably think "it can't be that bad" simply because, for them, a somewhat decent skeleton for the story is guaranteed. Whereas other stories that have more unique elements are more of a gamble that might not be worth it.
I think these repetitive themes also make it very consumable, in the same way one would view an episode of Spongebob (basically an episodic SoL cartoon for those who don't know). If you enjoy one of them, you'll probably enjoy another one which is just a variant (what op skill will he have, how will he use it, etc.). So if you're just looking to feel good after work without having to think to much about the anime content, it'll work just fine.
Quadruple_Oi said: very consumable, in the same way one would view an episode of Spongebob ... If you enjoy one of them, you'll probably enjoy another one which is just a variant I'm trying to picture a person that watches Spongebob and 2 other very similar shows, every season... And that makes roughly 12 a year... Sure, they can just turn their brains off and relax while watching, but you can watch pretty much anything like that. But they specifically pick same-y isekais? And there are millions and millions of these people? I get that this specific genre could be appealing, it's just hard to believe how massively popular this specific genre is. |
Reply to perseii
Quadruple_Oi said:
very consumable, in the same way one would view an episode of Spongebob ... If you enjoy one of them, you'll probably enjoy another one which is just a variant
very consumable, in the same way one would view an episode of Spongebob ... If you enjoy one of them, you'll probably enjoy another one which is just a variant
I'm trying to picture a person that watches Spongebob and 2 other very similar shows, every season... And that makes roughly 12 a year...
Sure, they can just turn their brains off and relax while watching, but you can watch pretty much anything like that. But they specifically pick same-y isekais? And there are millions and millions of these people?
I get that this specific genre could be appealing, it's just hard to believe how massively popular this specific genre is.
| @perseii A majority of people I have spoken with in Japan over the years find it hard to believe how massively popular American Sitcoms are in the West. Yet they have been extremely popular in Just America alone for over 70+ years and counting. Japan is just a different culture and have different values to things that most westerners couldn't possibly wrap their heads around no matter what you try to tell them. Among other things a majority of Japanese people don't understand the appeal of Nascar, Pro-Wrestling, America's gun obsession, etc... Like with Nascar it's just a bunch of rich White Dudes driving around in fast clown cars plastered with advertising shit like Viagra simply to race around in circles for hours and hours. Pro-Wrestling in the west is basically just Homoerotic scripted fighting of dude on dude flesh body contact while sometimes the dudes are wearing nothing more than a tiny speedo. Oddly I have noticed it mostly attracts the viewership of a bunch of hetreo sexual redneck white dudes for some reason. I won't even get into the gun culture in the West either..... |
ColourWheelYesterday, 1:04 AM
 |
Reply to perseii
Quadruple_Oi said:
very consumable, in the same way one would view an episode of Spongebob ... If you enjoy one of them, you'll probably enjoy another one which is just a variant
very consumable, in the same way one would view an episode of Spongebob ... If you enjoy one of them, you'll probably enjoy another one which is just a variant
I'm trying to picture a person that watches Spongebob and 2 other very similar shows, every season... And that makes roughly 12 a year...
Sure, they can just turn their brains off and relax while watching, but you can watch pretty much anything like that. But they specifically pick same-y isekais? And there are millions and millions of these people?
I get that this specific genre could be appealing, it's just hard to believe how massively popular this specific genre is.
| @perseii While I do think these isekai are quite similar, there is substantial variance in the handful that appear within the same season imo. perseii said: Sure, they can just turn their brains off and relax while watching, but you can watch pretty much anything like that I also disagree with being able to enjoy anything with your brain off. Let's say your base enjoyment is when you watch anime with brain off, and max enjoyment is if you fully engage with it. For a majority of anime, simply paying close attention adds quite a bit, so there's a noticeable difference from base to max. In the case of most such isekai, these 2 values are practically equal and off the top of my head, I would only say the same goes for highly gimmicky rom-coms, and 4-coma comedies. The former also being similarly successful, and the latter not so much due to the format not translating well to anime. These isekai also have the advantage over these 2 other genre in the semblance of plot/purpose that they pretend to offer, as well. |
| Ironic how One Piss fans think they have the right to call other genres "trash" |
| Because the people in the higher ups only have the love for one single thing. MONEY!!! |
 |
| Studios aren't usually the ones who chose what source material to adapt. |
 |
| All anime is trash. Not just isekai anime. |
Reply to ColourWheel
@perseii
A majority of people I have spoken with in Japan over the years find it hard to believe how massively popular American Sitcoms are in the West. Yet they have been extremely popular in Just America alone for over 70+ years and counting.
Japan is just a different culture and have different values to things that most westerners couldn't possibly wrap their heads around no matter what you try to tell them.
Among other things a majority of Japanese people don't understand the appeal of Nascar, Pro-Wrestling, America's gun obsession, etc...
Like with Nascar it's just a bunch of rich White Dudes driving around in fast clown cars plastered with advertising shit like Viagra simply to race around in circles for hours and hours.
Pro-Wrestling in the west is basically just Homoerotic scripted fighting of dude on dude flesh body contact while sometimes the dudes are wearing nothing more than a tiny speedo. Oddly I have noticed it mostly attracts the viewership of a bunch of hetreo sexual redneck white dudes for some reason.
I won't even get into the gun culture in the West either.....
A majority of people I have spoken with in Japan over the years find it hard to believe how massively popular American Sitcoms are in the West. Yet they have been extremely popular in Just America alone for over 70+ years and counting.
Japan is just a different culture and have different values to things that most westerners couldn't possibly wrap their heads around no matter what you try to tell them.
Among other things a majority of Japanese people don't understand the appeal of Nascar, Pro-Wrestling, America's gun obsession, etc...
Like with Nascar it's just a bunch of rich White Dudes driving around in fast clown cars plastered with advertising shit like Viagra simply to race around in circles for hours and hours.
Pro-Wrestling in the west is basically just Homoerotic scripted fighting of dude on dude flesh body contact while sometimes the dudes are wearing nothing more than a tiny speedo. Oddly I have noticed it mostly attracts the viewership of a bunch of hetreo sexual redneck white dudes for some reason.
I won't even get into the gun culture in the West either.....
| @ColourWheel I wasn't really directing my question at the Japanese audience, but I guess they're the ones that really matter in the decision-making process... Do you have any idea why "trashy isekai" specifically appeals to the Japanese to this degree? Even above other "trashy" genres? What is that "something" that non-Japanese people might not easily understand? I've seen some commentary about the overwork culture and a general sense of hopelessness in the 20's/30's generation in Japan, but I'm not too convinced that these are the main reasons for isekai's popularity. But I don't live in Japan or interact with Japanese people, so I don't really have a good reason to be skeptical, just a feeling. |
Just too many dumpster divers that are willing to spend their time and money to dig through the garbage piles, unfortunately. Just need more people to realize that there isn't anything good in the dumpsters. |
 |
Reply to perseii
@ColourWheel I wasn't really directing my question at the Japanese audience, but I guess they're the ones that really matter in the decision-making process...
Do you have any idea why "trashy isekai" specifically appeals to the Japanese to this degree? Even above other "trashy" genres? What is that "something" that non-Japanese people might not easily understand?
I've seen some commentary about the overwork culture and a general sense of hopelessness in the 20's/30's generation in Japan, but I'm not too convinced that these are the main reasons for isekai's popularity. But I don't live in Japan or interact with Japanese people, so I don't really have a good reason to be skeptical, just a feeling.
Do you have any idea why "trashy isekai" specifically appeals to the Japanese to this degree? Even above other "trashy" genres? What is that "something" that non-Japanese people might not easily understand?
I've seen some commentary about the overwork culture and a general sense of hopelessness in the 20's/30's generation in Japan, but I'm not too convinced that these are the main reasons for isekai's popularity. But I don't live in Japan or interact with Japanese people, so I don't really have a good reason to be skeptical, just a feeling.
| @perseii Some isekai offer a sense of superiority, in various senses.
So, maybe some isekai stories (but not limited to only isekai) it allows individuals or an entire culture to project themselves onto a fictional world/society, without offending or directly drawing comparisons to other societies on Earth. While other isekai are just exploring the video game RPG setting without feeling good about the background of the audience/protagonist. A sense of superiority is great because it involves the reader with like-minded worldviews. Most evidently in OP main characters totally ruling the other world with ease. But, of course it could involve morally questionable elements of, "should I be liking this evil main character [like ainz from overlord]?" Of course it is in the end of the day still fiction, but there is a reason why evil/selfish characters can get popular in the isekai-light novel sphere. Japan is famously also historically 'isolationist', so it views the world outside of their own differently. For example, 'Japan is separate from Asia' because of its unique culture. Similarly, Britain also sometimes viewed itself historically separate from the European mainland. |
W3TFTYesterday, 4:50 PM
ow + nw = 90-2000s |
| Hello, I Like Money! Money!" Holy yapping on here it's not that deep lol |
   |
Reply to W3TFT
@perseii
Some isekai offer a sense of superiority, in various senses.
So, maybe some isekai stories (but not limited to only isekai) it allows individuals or an entire culture to project themselves onto a fictional world/society, without offending or directly drawing comparisons to other societies on Earth. While other isekai are just exploring the video game RPG setting without feeling good about the background of the audience/protagonist.
A sense of superiority is great because it involves the reader with like-minded worldviews. Most evidently in OP main characters totally ruling the other world with ease. But, of course it could involve morally questionable elements of, "should I be liking this evil main character [like ainz from overlord]?"
Of course it is in the end of the day still fiction, but there is a reason why evil/selfish characters can get popular in the isekai-light novel sphere.
Japan is famously also historically 'isolationist', so it views the world outside of their own differently. For example, 'Japan is separate from Asia' because of its unique culture. Similarly, Britain also sometimes viewed itself historically separate from the European mainland.
Some isekai offer a sense of superiority, in various senses.
- Military superiority. The 'modern' army vs the fantasy army.
- Culinary superiority. Japanese food vs bland pseudo medieval food.
- Technological superiority. A technique, gimmick, invention, etc. based on or inspired by Earth's science/technology introduced/overwhelms/surprises the technological level of a fantasy world's people.
- Culture superiority (admittedly it's very broad.) Otaku culture vs non-existent otaku culture, Japanese mannerisms vs fantasy world mannerisms, etc.
So, maybe some isekai stories (but not limited to only isekai) it allows individuals or an entire culture to project themselves onto a fictional world/society, without offending or directly drawing comparisons to other societies on Earth. While other isekai are just exploring the video game RPG setting without feeling good about the background of the audience/protagonist.
A sense of superiority is great because it involves the reader with like-minded worldviews. Most evidently in OP main characters totally ruling the other world with ease. But, of course it could involve morally questionable elements of, "should I be liking this evil main character [like ainz from overlord]?"
Of course it is in the end of the day still fiction, but there is a reason why evil/selfish characters can get popular in the isekai-light novel sphere.
Japan is famously also historically 'isolationist', so it views the world outside of their own differently. For example, 'Japan is separate from Asia' because of its unique culture. Similarly, Britain also sometimes viewed itself historically separate from the European mainland.
W3TFT said: So, maybe some isekai stories (but not limited to only isekai) it allows individuals or an entire culture to project themselves onto a fictional world/society, without offending or directly drawing comparisons to other societies on Earth. This got disturbing real quick... An interesting theory, but it would require many isekai shows to depict the fantasy world as "other," alien, or worse, savage/primitive, such that its inhabitants and existing structure must be destroyed or "reformed," but I don't really get that impression... Do you? A lot of isekai seems to operate within a straightforward, inoffensive medieval fantasy world. The setting and the characters could pass for Japan, actually, just with fantasy dressing. Do a lot of isekai protagonists despise or reject the fantasy world? I thought most of them tend to accept their predicament and overpower the situation only when necessary, for their own personal benefit, and never at the expense of unrelated innocents. They almost never have a problem with the world and its ideas, just a few specific jerk characters. If anything, they tend to embrace the new world, treating it like a second chance at life. |
Reply to perseii
W3TFT said:
So, maybe some isekai stories (but not limited to only isekai) it allows individuals or an entire culture to project themselves onto a fictional world/society, without offending or directly drawing comparisons to other societies on Earth.
So, maybe some isekai stories (but not limited to only isekai) it allows individuals or an entire culture to project themselves onto a fictional world/society, without offending or directly drawing comparisons to other societies on Earth.
This got disturbing real quick...
An interesting theory, but it would require many isekai shows to depict the fantasy world as "other," alien, or worse, savage/primitive, such that its inhabitants and existing structure must be destroyed or "reformed," but I don't really get that impression... Do you?
A lot of isekai seems to operate within a straightforward, inoffensive medieval fantasy world. The setting and the characters could pass for Japan, actually, just with fantasy dressing.
Do a lot of isekai protagonists despise or reject the fantasy world? I thought most of them tend to accept their predicament and overpower the situation only when necessary, for their own personal benefit, and never at the expense of unrelated innocents. They almost never have a problem with the world and its ideas, just a few specific jerk characters. If anything, they tend to embrace the new world, treating it like a second chance at life.
| @perseii Yeah, of course a great many isekai don't have a 'superiority' thing going for them. And often times when there is a 'superiority' element in the story, it might not be intentional by the author or a blatant thing. What I meant by superiority is not necessarily 'I am a better human than you' type of thing, but in the general usage of the word. Or, perhaps I am using the wrong word. The word may arguably fit a story like Gate, but not a generic isekai where the protagonist introduces a Japanese-style hot spring inn which is often times depicted as an objectively amazing thing that everyone enjoys (natives and otherworlds), and drink coffee milk after bathing. (I know that this actually extends to a way broader trope/commonality, beyond isekai.) This obviously isn't a 'culture superiority' thing unless the scene explicitly makes it to be, which often is not the case. But the main audience seems to appreciate and enjoy this trope (among others) because it allows 'cultures' to interact. I hope future isekai stories go deeper into cultural exchange aspect between Earth vs fantasy world, but they rarely do. Anyways, often times a fantasy goblin, orc, elf, dwarf, etc. is super happy/amazed interacting with Onsens because 'they're obviously a good thing.' In Slime Tensei, rimuru's whole civilization is heavily influenced by Japanese culture (or at least, Japanese culture as depicted in most light novels.) Rimuru's culture is what's relatable to the audience, but it's also presented as an advanced culture within his 'monster' civilization (which is an outlier to the other supposedly 'civilized' yet pseudo-medieval fantasy nations on that continent.) I'm not explaining it as well as I'd like to. But it basically is similar to the general idea of a 'power fantasy.' And it's natural that, when written by a Japanese author for a Japanese audience, familiar and reoccurring concepts will appear like Japanese onsens. However, in many isekai, it often lends to a moment to 'flex on' the denizens of a fantasy world by showing how Earth's or Japan's way of doing things, science, perspective, etc. is better or more amazing than theirs. It feels good for the reader. That's why (in an extreme case) the story of Gate is beloved by many. It shows off the superiority of a modern military. Yet superiority doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing. In stories like the Pharmacy Isekai, it uses a fantasy world as a backdrop of a pseudo 18th century Europe to show how modern medicine and modern medical knowledge is superior to antique methods. In modern medicine we have an effective way to fight the black plague. But, in that story also points out how the medical knowledge of the native denizens, like the MC's father, is pretty good and impressive for what they know/have available. To talk about your comments specifically: From my point of view and opinion, many isekai fail to 'embrace the new world' in a detailed way. Similarly, there is a lack of conflict or discussion with isekai protagonists despising and/or appreciating the otherworld they've found themselves in. This is perhaps a critique of isekai in general. But my main point about 'Superiority' (which might not be the correct word) is that it's a factor to why Isekai, or power fantasy in general, may be attractive to the Japanese audience. Is it exclusive to the Japanese market? Probably not. And not all isekai have this 'superiority' thing in them. And even if they do, it's often times not explicit or intentional. If it's intentional, it's probably part of a trope. Plus, the intentional insertion of 'superiority' intrinsically offers potential in isekai stories (which is sometimes not expanded upon enough) to make the entire isekai premise relevant to the plot! Does the MC need to be isekai'd in order for him to be OP? No. Could the MC need to be Isekai'd in order for him to be disgusted or elated by the cultural practices of an alien society? Probably so! Because it could make a story more interesting/complex. (Yet complexity isn't what's sought after in the light novel market, I think.) |
W3TFTYesterday, 5:51 PM
ow + nw = 90-2000s |
| Because the anime industry wants to appeal greatly to kids and expect to play it safely. I'm not surprised that most cartoons are made for kids though, that's how it is. Not too surprised that the anime industry is subject to complacency, having the reduced drive to innovate and improve. Hence, more money, more problems so complacency will be detrimental to them in the long run along with Japan's toxic work culture (Japanese people are a lost cause in terms of improving over that too). One day, their isekai consumers will grow out of the genre delving into complex emotional themes then. Rest assured, that growing out of formulaic or linear isekai anime will be easy. That playing it safe with anime will have some consequences too. |
| In the pursuit of money when there's 36 new shows needing to be revealed every season, I imagine it gets pretty hard asking staffs to come up with story ideas. It's not that they want good ideas, it's just that the tendency to repeat what was successful before results in a lot of garbage being made- and nobody would watch it unless there was some kind of enticement: recognition of the title, familiarity with the IP at least starts you one step above zero. And by paying for the rights to an LN title, you also get a generic trash story that is bound to be just as terrible as whatever nonsense your exhausted staff could some up with- and it's EVEN CHEAPER. The content mill must churn out more content. Isekai LNs are the cheapest junk out there the anime studios can get their hands on. |
| As someone enjoying most Isekai shows, I am also a bit baffled by how little care some of these projects receive. The stories are fun, but the animation is so atrocious that I'd never buy their BDs. So what's the deal with that? My only guess is that these are made for as cheap as possible to advertise the source material. Maybe it's also used to train new animators? I don't really get it, either. If they put actual care into these projects I'd import them from Japan. |
| Because people like trash isekai shows. |
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