which is more evil the 2000 years of Eldian Empire rule or the 100 years oppression of modern day Eldians?

tsunderedspirits said:
theyre both bad..

deg said:


yes but which is more bad

tsunderedspirits said:
neither should happen, and on either side they will say the other side is the most evil since morality is subjective.

morality is subjective, each side thinks the other is more evil and both are valid in thinking so.

as a spectator, i say theyre both bad and thats that. imo saying that one tyrannical atrocity is less evil than the other is ridiculous

i also understand that im in the minority for thinking this way

deg said:


classic BothSideSism mindset there

deg said:


classic BothSideSism mindset there

tsunderedspirits said:


but im on neither side? lol sorry i never heard that term before

deg said:


>both are valid in thinking so.

deg said:
obviously the numbers speaks for itself so 2000 years got my vote

Hrybami said:


I thought you were always picking "I do not know".

I don't quantify evilness by numbers to bo honest. We should rather judge people individually. I don't think someone who accidentally killed 2 people is twice as evil than someone who intentionally killed 1 person. Both are evil of course, but evilness is all about perspectives and relativity. Raw numbers don't really speak for themselves if you don't put them in their respectives context and evaluate those numbers with how people did it, with what intention, with their beliefs and culture, etc.

deg said:


the problem is this is not accidental killing or oppression

Hrybami said:


I voted "I do not know" so don't quote me on that. I've given other example to avoid diving into the SnK arguments. What I meant is that numbers alone don't speak for themselves for something extremely subjective and relative like evilness. If you're talking about the less evil side of both evil things, then it's barely about raw statistics, but rather about how and with what circumstances.

But I guess if we're considering on many people suffered then the 2000 years would be the most appropriate answer which in a way could translate to the most evil side. However I feel that it is a pretty vague explanation. Not all evil weight the same.

Joacoski said:
2000 years of eldian empire rule are a bit more evil. they are both wrong but since it's more time, more people suffered for sure. anyway, don't justify marley / the world oppression on innocent eldians... it's just wrong

Helltaker said:
This is completely nonsensical you're comparing 2000 year period to 100 year period in order to excuse Marley actions as lesser evil.
That is like comparing Nazi Germany with roman empire and saying that they are lesser evil.

Zekkenshin said:
So you're saying that the Eldian Empire is worse because they did the same thing that all major world powers do in every historical period, except more efficiently & for a longer span of time? Do you really think Marley would be struggling in wars with foreign powers if it had the absolute might of all nine titans and the Rumbling at its beck & call?

Here's the truth: Every other nation - especially Marley - is seething with jealousy that they couldn't be the ones with a two millennia legacy of supremacy & dominion. The best thing Marley had going for it was Helos and that turned out to be an embarrassing fraud (fabricated by Eldians, no less!).

syrinx23 said:


That doesn't make sense, the "best thing" Marley had going for them -- according to your own definition -- wasn't Helos, it was seven out of the Nine Titans and over a hundred years of "supremacy and dominion". But that's besides the point. Why are you even a Yeagerist if you acknowledge both sides are equally bad?

Zekkenshin said:
Yeah, they had the power of the titans during a time when technology was rapidly making them obsolete. Also, they didn't have dominion because they were constantly at war with other nations. The only thing they're confirmed to have conquered was one tiny island and its brainwashed inhabitants.

I don't recall claiming to be one. Floch is just badass. Also, the point isn't that they were equally bad. The point is that you need a hell of a lot more context than just "2000 > 100", which could mean anything. For all we know, there could have a been a 1,000 year period of peace & prosperity under Eldian rule. The whole point was that both the anti-Eldian world & Eldian nationalists had incomplete pictures of the grand scheme. Neither was completely right or wrong, but they wield those fragments of history to suit their narratives.

And that's to say nothing of the entire moral of the story, which is that the cycle of conflict & violence is ceaseless and has no clear beginning or end.

syrinx23 said:


You haven't seen the world map, then. Marley's territories included the whole of (upside-down) Africa, Western Europe and parts of South America. Also we know that the volunteers all came from nations annexed by Marley and were forced to join their military. They were indeed constantly at war, because they were constantly invading other nations and constantly expanding their territory. Technology making Titans obsolete is pretty recent, a couple of decades maybe; the Mid-East Alliance being able to defeat just one of their Titans was an unprecedented feat -- even though they ended up losing the war.

I see Floch more as a pathetic fascist, but you do you. So you're not a Yeagerist? Sorry for making that assumption then, I thought your signature and your previous comment conveyed that pretty hard. As for the rest of your comment, I agree 100%.

Zekkenshin said:
"A pathetic fascist" who happens to be right every step of the way.

My signature is a bit of a play on Floch's character development. That said, I would never call myself a Yeagerist for the sole reason that Eren is cringe.

syrinx23 said:


What's the difference between Floch's and Marley's ideologies? They're both pathetic fascists who tried to commit genocide against the other side in order to save their own nation. Marley was also right "every step of the way", that much is obvious. You need only look at the Rumbling. If you say they brought it on themselves, then Eldia/Paradis brought it on themselves just the same: they were the ones who oppressed Marley before Marley oppressed them. I don't think I need to go into further detail since you're clearly well aware of these facts; like you said, no one in particular is responsible for this cycle of hatred, and both sides were basing their ideology on incomplete and manipulated narratives.

Having said that, we can only conclude that there is, in fact, no difference at all: Marley is just as "based" as Floch. If you disagree, you're contradicting yourself. Better yet, let's use Sergeant Gross, the guy who fed Grisha's sister to his dogs, as a personification of Marley instead. If Floch is "badass", "based" and "right every step of the way" then that Gross guy is all of these things too, and more -- he is perhaps the most based character of this anime, or of all anime, even. His only mistake was not feeding Grisha to the dogs as well; in doing so he would've spared billions of innocent lives. Please change your profile picture to Sergeant Gross and your signature to "Based and Grosspilled" right away, otherwise I will have no choice but to consider you a hypocrite.

Zekkenshin said:
Is this parody? Very cringe take. You can't even compare the leverage between Marley as a geopolitical titan vs Paradis as a fringe island that was only recently at the verge of extinction at the hands of titans. William Tybur was establishing peace & diplomacy with world leaders because Marley had leverage as a first world power. No one in the world even attempts to offer the same understanding to say Armin, Pyxis or any other rational negotiator on the island. Inb4 "B-but muh Hizuru!"

Being a fascist in Marley means you get to bully weaker nations and invade them for resources. Being a fascist in Paradis means you're securing the existence of your people against a world that wants to completely defile & destroy you. Gross was yucking it up when he was bullying helpless Eldians. In contrast, the psychology of the Yeagerists was forged through the sheer hell of sacrificing their humanity to rise up against giant cannibals for three seasons.

Bottom line is Marley has realistic options while Paradis doesn't. And that's why I won't disavow the Yeagerists or the Rumbling. Blame Yams for making the outside world comically evil and unfair. If this were an actually intellectual & nuanced war story, like LOGH, then genocide wouldn't even be on the table.

Also, Chad Fit Floch, unlike downy obese Gross, was right because:

NaughtySempai said:
same as saying which one is worst
old British empire or current hypocritic America lol



not here to trigger any American or British so take it as a joke

_spoon_ said:
This is kind of a dumb comparison. Both are bad.

syrinx23 said:

Having said that, we can only conclude that there is, in fact, no difference at all: Marley is just as "based" as Floch. If you disagree, you're contradicting yourself. Better yet, let's use Sergeant Gross, the guy who fed Grisha's sister to his dogs, as a personification of Marley instead. If Floch is "badass", "based" and "right every step of the way" then that Gross guy is all of these things too, and more -- he is perhaps the most based character of this anime, or of all anime, even. His only mistake was not feeding Grisha to the dogs as well; in doing so he would've spared billions of innocent lives. Please change your profile picture to Sergeant Gross and your signature to "Based and Grosspilled" right away, otherwise I will have no choice but to consider you a hypocrite.

mechian said:


Is this a joke? Gross did what he did for sadistic pleasure without any goal. He fed an innocent little girl to dogs for entertainment.

Everything Floch has done is for the survival of his people. All the military leadership were corrupt so no qualms about feeding them spiked wine. Shadis was a bully and old guard, making an example out of him and giving him a taste of his own medicine was justified. It also let the cadets prove their loyalty. Yelena's group were a bunch of traitors that was going to backstab Paradis.

Maybe you should stop throwing around buzz words and ad hominem attacks, and actually analyze Floch's character. He has been the most consistent character in the whole story. Everyone else has just flip flopped from one side to another or kept changing their minds.