| Fushigi no Umi no Nadia (Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water, 1990) MAL 7.52/10, anidb 7.21/10  |
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| Thanks. Heard a bit about this show being Hideaki Anno's last directorial role before NGE. Had some production issues I believe. Looking forward to an adventure anime. |
23feanorApr 10, 2022 4:23 AM
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| Should be quite a bit of fun, something different. |
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| Episode 1. We've got a French MC, rather unusual for a Japanese anime (can't think of any others off the top of my head). Bit of a homage to lots of previous works like Laputa Castle in the Sky with it's Ghibli-esque animation style and almost Disney type character designs. Then we have a comedy villain trio, who look like the inspiration for Pokemons rocket villain gang. Jean meets Nadia and she has a magical stone (Laputa again), which does what, not sure yet, but people are after her for it. Nadia and Jean are both orphans, although Jean lives with his uncle and his dad is missing, or went missing. Loving the river boat Jean lives on and the early aircraft experiments. This episode felt like the opening to a good fantasy adventure film. |
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| Episode 1 Gifted boy Jean meets exotic girl Nadia (both with dead/missing parents), while Disney-esque frenemy villainess Grandis tries to capture her and get hold of the mysterious artifact in her possession. This is almost 1:1 the premise and first episode plot of Mysterious Cities of Gold, and given I loved that one it's a good sign. The episode establishes the boy as technical genius (aviation engineer) and her as an elite circus acrobat. This also establishes her skimpy clothing type fan service, but after all this is Anno directing - expect the Spanish inquisition. Unlike 15th century Esteban, this show is steampunk era 1889 and set in France (as compared to Spain) - yet both are European. What made me laugh is the scene when Nadia rejected to be called by her first name because "we are not friends". Classic Japanese cultural thing nobody would care about in 19th century France. I'm watching German dub, this show got the full public broadcaster TV treatment also applied to the WMT series and a number of classic kid shows in Germany. It's localized down to the songs having German re-recordings. Unfortunately the voice acting seems to be bad, compared to other shows dubbed for public TV. A big plus is the animation, which is superb given this is both TV and cell animated. Gainax was clearly the ufotable of the late 80s, just have a look at Ouritsu Uchuugun: Honneamise no Tsubasa which came out 3 years earlier. Clearly top talent at work here, and given this likely has Euro public TV money in it, top funding. Also keep in mind this is a production of the Golden Age, before the real estate bubble burst. Japan was high on cash and coke those days. Overall, a lot of Euro and Disney influence in this one, but also Anno degeneracy and Japanese conservative value elements. This mix worked well in many 80s productions, let's see how the story unfolds. |
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| @inim wow was that a blast of nostalgia, I had no idea that Mysterious Cities of Gold was a Japanese animation, although I really shouldn't be surprised by now. Both Em and I remember watching it as kids. This OP takes me back to my childhood in one moment. I remember dreaming of Aztec golden temples because of this show when I was 3 or 4. I first saw it in black and white. The english VA is a bit wooden also. Episode 2. Jean and Nadia travel to Le Havre to Jean's uncle and aunt's place, where the aunt won't let Nadia stay and the villainous trio finds them again. The jewel Nadia carries is called Bluewater but don't know what it does yet, except blink and beep when danger is close. Events keep Nadia and Jean moving. This doesn't feel like a tv series, but like portions of a film. |
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| Running a bit behind on watching these. It's my birthday today, so I've been running around a good bit. Still, a good time. Episode 1 I was definitely thinking along the same lines as @23feanor with regards to how this resembles Castle in the Sky and generally has Ghibli vibes. You definitely get the feel for the adventure side of this and some small indications that either advanced tech or magical elements are at play at some level. I appreciate the character setups as well, even if some of them appear a bit basic. The uncle being somehow fine with his nephew ruining their chance to win 20,000 francs is a bit unrealistic, even if it's kinda endearing that he's supporting it for the sake of a budding romance. The villain and her henchmen are very Team Rocket-esque, though I count that as a bonus, especially given how quickly they're willing to pull out the artillery and flying robot vehicles. These guys don't mess around. So far, I'm enjoying the fluid animation and kinetic style of the show. There's a lot that's unclear up front, but nothing that is off-putting, just things that will help pull me forward through the story in search of answers. It's a good start, and I'm liking it so far. |
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| Happy birthday @whiteflame55, hope you have a good day Episode 3. Jean and Nadia are rescued by an American battleship, USS Abraham, which itself is hunting the mysterious sea monsters that have been sinking ships all over the world. Grandis and her accomplices make an appearance and are captured. We learn a bit more about the sea monster before they suddenly attack the battleship, looking suspiciously like 2 submarines. Nadia and Jean go overboard and end up drifting with Jean's broken air craft. Loving the action, adventure and OST. |
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| Happy birthday @whiteflame55 from me as well. Party like it's 1999! @23Feanor happy you and Em re-discovered a lost childhood memory. I'm trough a similar process, many of my childhood favorite cartoons turned out to be anime (Heidi, Maya, Captain Future, Vickie the Viking, Once Upon a Time... Life, ...) later. There's a wealth of those Euro public TV co-funded shows from the 70s-90s. And the success of that international model spawned the World Masterpiece Theater series, in which it found it's peak. MCoG itself was never localized in Germany, even today I had to watch it in English dub (rare for me). This happens because France and Spain often but not always shared their big productions with Germany under Eurovision coop contracting. Germany shared more shows with Italy (Calimero, ...) and those never made it to France and Spain in return. Two more examples of coops EUR<->JP from those days which were highly popular in France and Spain but never made it to Germany are Orban Star Racers and Uchuu Densetsu Ulysses 31. The UK TV probably cherry picked from all those productions. That said, you are now more than ready for your first WMT show. Come to the dark side. We have cookies. Episode 2/3 The marine theme of the show is introduced, world building, exposition dump and side character introduction is done in an entertaining and casual way. Story wise, the adventure is established, the two protagonists are constantly moving into new exciting adventure situations (sic!) now. Episode 2 strongly resembles Future Boy Conan, where the MC is attacked by military grade mechanical forces for the first time, and pursued by them ever after. In episode 3 the MC couple on the run is picked up by a US warship hunting "sea monsters". We meet the vessel's trigger happy captain, and an overeating young adventurous scientist who's favorite spare time is exposing military secrets - a rather smart way to get exposition dumped. The "sea monsters" with high odds are submarines, a cut with sonar noises established it. And with the next episode named "Captain Nemo", yea. Towards the end of their stay on the ship, Nadia and Jean go overboard and back to their floating airplane wreck. I've done basic research because the heavy, heavy similarities with Future Boy Conan, Laputa and MCoG. The similarity to the latter is more or less coincidence and genre tropes, the similarity to the two former anime not. All three are based on the same original script, which in return is based on the same Jules Verne book. And the rabbit hole is deeper. Neon Genesis Evangelion was originally designed as a sequel to Nadia. Beyond that Nadia was plagiarized two times itself. First by Roland Emmerich in his 1994 flick Stargate, then again in the early 2000s by Disney as Atlantis: The Lost Empire. The show's Wikipedia page is a fine insight into how the media industry works. This series' origins date to the mid-1970s when Hayao Miyazaki was hired by Toho to develop a television series. One of these concepts was "Around the World in 80 days by Sea" (adapted from Jules Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea), in which two orphan children pursued by villains team up with Captain Nemo and the Nautilus. It was never produced, but Toho retained the rights for the story outline, while Miyazaki reused elements from his original concept in later projects like Future Boy Conan and Castle in the Sky. Given this is all based on original concepts by Hayao Miyazaki, so much becomes clear. Nadia is a pacifist, vegetarian, and ecologist who tries to prevent the US military from killing the "sea monsters". Animation, characters and writing are reminiscent of Ghibli. In other news: water is wet.Overall, this is an easy watch with a child-paced narration, a story you can still follow after the toilet break, handy episode summaries and a clear, robust character typecast an writing. And on top of that, I literally have seen 2 alternative versions of the script before. Now this is all clear, I'll focus on what Anno's handwriting adds to a familiar thing. |
inimApr 13, 2022 4:30 AM
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| @inim @23feanor thanks! It was a good time, first time I've gotten to really do something for my birthday in a couple of years. Episodes 2 and 3 I'm enjoying how they're building this out as they're giving more and more opportunities to showcase the ingenuity of Jean while keeping him firmly in the "still gotta work out the kinks" mode that plagues so many engineers and scientists in animation. Still, his optimism is infectious and he clearly has a knack for it, given that he has built the first non-balloon flying machine (that we know of). It's nice that his aunt also becomes an antagonist of sorts, a good opposing force to his uncle. In general, the adventure in this series seems relatively aimless. There's some interest on Nadia's part in finding where she came from and trying to get there, though there's an assumption that her connection is to Africa, a journey not entirely impossible to make given their proximity to France, though it's a shot in the dark. There's also the central McGuffin, the Blue Water, that has only really gotten the bare minimum explanation: it's clearly important to Nadia, important enough to Team Rocket to challenge an American battleship over it, and can at least give proximity warnings, though we don't know what else it can do. Also, we get our first look at these giant sea creatures... that are most definitely tricked out submarines. Should be interesting to see what happens when these characters discover that, but it's interesting that there appear to be two, yet only one attacked the battleship. In general, it's nice to have the battleship in play because it gives us a fresh perspective on what these sea creatures mean to the world at large. It also gives us a counterpoint to Nadia, who appears to be a lover of all animals to the point that she doesn't eat meat or fish and actively wants to protect the definitely-not-a-submarine. A bit more insight into her character. Anyway, it's a slow-building adventure and I'm good with that. |
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@inim Actually, those two DID air here Aeons ago! :-D |
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Happosama said: I stand corrected, and to my apology have to add that my TV anime eon predates it. In the 1990s I was a young adult already and missed the RTL II broadcasts. The last anime I watched on real TV was indeed Captain Future, Nils Holgerson for me already was "I'm too old for that shit". The broadcast years in Germany:inim said: @inim Actually, those two DID air here Aeons ago! :-DMCoG itself […] never made it to Germany […] and Uchuu Densetsu Ulysses 31. Nadia: 1996, 2001, 2021 MCoG: 1988 (East German state TV!!!), rebroadcasts on east German stations in the 1990s, 2011 Ulysses 31: 1988 to 1992 (Tele5 Bim Bam Bino) => Broadcast, but on rather obscure slots and stations, and many years after the original release date. |
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| @inim some really interesting tidbits in your post yday, thanks. I love maritime themes and anything to do with boating. Episode 4. So Nadia and Jean get picked up by the monster, or submarine as they discover. And what is the captain of the Macross doing on board? They completely copied the character design. So we learn the submarine is called the Nautilus (of course) and meet Electra (who has the loveliest fake British accent and wears the silliest small mask to hide her face) and see some of the crew as well as captain Nemo. Electra seems to know who Nadia is and calls her princess? She also seems to know something of the bluewater stone that we hear from Nadia that she has had ever since she can remember. |
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filifjonkan said: Hello! I will watch this series, it sounds like fun. @inim how dare you call the Swedish national-epos "shit"?! LOL Glad to have you on board, pun intended, lol |
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| Episode 4 The submarine Nautilus salvages the MC duo from their second distress at sea. Their contact is a "masked" first officer Electra. She explains the crew and it's captain Nemo have abandoned all their connections to the land, and have no home nation. They are pirate hunters. As @23feanor pointed out, the anonymizing value of Electra's mask falls behind even Hitagi Senjougahara's take.  Anime girl protecting her identity with a mask (symbol picture) The MC duo spends a few boring days in a window-less cabin, while the Nautilus hunts another submarine which eventually manages to escape. It's unclear why they chase it, and who is on the other side. Electra is their only contact, Nemo is a loner who stays away from humans. He's pretty much the stereotypical captain found in so many Japanese sea and space operas.At the end of the episode Jean and Nadia are set free and find their airplane repaired and improved for use at sea. Electra explains how they can reach a nearby island to be safe. Overall, another place and faction is teased. Given there's a little girl listed as main even and in the OP, this location hopping will continue for some more time. The good news is that while the characters are brutally typecast, it's done with skill in Disney-Ghibli style. |
inimApr 13, 2022 2:38 PM
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| Episode 4 We're starting to get a picture of some of the major parties involved in this, parties that aren't affiliated with any country. We find ourselves with Captain Nemo and Electra onboard the Nautilus, one of the great sea beasts that was actually *gasp* a high tech submarine! Who would have guessed!? Anyway, it's interesting to see how they receive our intrepid trio (I'm including the lion) and, despite being highly secretive, go out of their way to help repair and upgrade Jean's plane for his exit. But in the meantime, they lock them in a cabin, feed them lovely meals twice a day, and engage in sub-to-sub warfare with another pesky advanced sub of unknown origin. That conflict will likely become more important as the series goes on. This is the first big element of this world that distinguishes itself from ours (glowing crystal aside) and it introduces a source of power in this world that doesn't fit neatly into any camp. We'll have to see how they play out. |
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| Episode 5. Well that was pretty brutal. Jean and Nadia get shot down over the supposedly safe island. It looks as if the Gargoyle group is using the island as its base. We meet Marie, whose parents have been killed by the masked villains. The rocket trio also get caught. Marie will be the surrogate daughter for Jean and Nadia I guess. I wonder if the bluewater is a power source of some sort? |
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| Episode 5 Wow, quite brutal indeed given this is PG-13. Some of the imagery was a bit too realistic and reminiscent of current events in Eastern Europe. Cold handed corpses in a pool of blood and 14 year olds having to lie about the nature of the event to a 4 year old repeatedly is seriously rubbing it in. I saw something like this coming, the German TV version was censored / cut in the original broadcast of episodes 1, 8, 38 and 39 - not 5. So wtf is coming in episode 8? Anyway. Story wise, the allegedly safe island isn't safe at all, it's controlled by hooded and ruthless militia who kill first and ask never. Many PG-R villains talk more and do less, I found them really frightening. Redhead Grandis and her henchmen are captured by them, and questioned. This reveals the existence of the Blue Waters gem and Nadia to the hoodies. But rather than being released, Grandis is "sentenced" to life-long labor, probably in that huge mine Jean spotted from the plane. Jean and Nadia are taken down by the island's air defense, and survive without any injury - the plot must go on I guess. They find aforementioned corpses and their dead dog, a married couple and a surviving 4 year old girl Marie with them. Quotes by Marie hint that the two were involved with some organized resistance against the hoodies. So we are in a war time drama all in a sudden, along the lines of Pan's Labyrinth. The burial of Marie's parents also was quite brutal, when MCs told her she can't follow them and will never see them again. Death is quite a concept to swallow for a young child. Overall: OK show. You already had my interest, now you have my attention. Armed Gestapo-KKK chasing the MC is in Future Boy Conan as well. Miyazaki plays it child friendly and symbolic in his version. It's Anno who adds the corpses, uncomfortable questions, brutality, and pools of blood. Best episode so far. |
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| Episode 6 Thank you Gainax and Anno, so this is what Ghibli looks like when hard working otaku get into control. Story wise, the murderous villains don't get room to breathe. They operate a forced labor mine, enslaved the inhabitants of the island, shoot escaping prisoners in the back, love to do Bond villain megalomaniac weapon research projects, and of course have Riefenstahl-esque ceremonies. And that's not all: we get kinky no-pan and under-boob fan service from Nadia. Story wise, the island is systematically explored by Jean. Which is pretty close what a sane adult would actually do, hide and explore rather than some stupid escape or attack plans. Then Marie is captured and they need to change plans, and they start an rescue attempt. But Jean and Nadia also get caught, and after a chase with imagery that would make Laura Croft proud, are cornered. Nadia hands over the gem to Jean and shows herself as cover for his escape, knowing she is wanted alive and he is wanted dead. So at this point, Marie and Nadia are captive, Jean is at large with Blue Water. I couldn't resist to peek into episode 8 and why it's censored in the German TV cut. Those bastards cut into the master tape after dubbing, so the voice acting is lost forever. The BD release adds the missing 1:30 min again, but only in German sub. Long story short: German censors dislike sexualized nazi scenes. So the tone of the last two episodes is here to stay, the Disney-esque first four were just the teaser. Overall: Gainax, I love you. |
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| Preemptive discussion; How do we handle the Korean filler arcs? Nadia is infamous for being animated by 3 studios, which explains massive inconsistencies in animation quality and details. I think some of that was already visible, Nadia's clothing and skin/hair color varies a lot for example. The dreaded part is ep 23-34 aka "The Island / Africa arcs" which is not from Gainax but NHK bought it as filler from Korea. My take is "damn the torpedoes" and be completionist about it. But I read comments like "this really spoiled the show for me". A by episode write-up is https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=402151 https://thereviewheap.home.blog/2020/01/22/nadia-the-secret-of-blue-water-fushigi-no-umi-no-nadia-the-island-arc-episodes-23-31/ https://thereviewheap.home.blog/2020/01/23/nadia-the-secret-of-blue-water-fushigi-no-umi-no-nadia-the-africa-arc-episodes-32-34/ No worries about spoilers, it's a classic filler arc anyway ... Opinions? |
inimApr 14, 2022 12:08 PM
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inim said: Preemptive discussion; How do we handle the Korean filler arcs? Nadia is infamous for being animated by 3 studios, which explains massive inconsistencies in animation quality and details. I think some of that was already visible, Nadia's clothing and skin/hair color varies a lot for example. The dreaded part is ep 23-34 aka "The Island / Africa arcs" which is not from Gainax but NHK bought it as filler from Korea. My take is "damn the torpedoes" and be completionist about it. But I read comments like "this really spoiled the show for me". A by episode write-up is https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=402151 https://thereviewheap.home.blog/2020/01/22/nadia-the-secret-of-blue-water-fushigi-no-umi-no-nadia-the-island-arc-episodes-23-31/ https://thereviewheap.home.blog/2020/01/23/nadia-the-secret-of-blue-water-fushigi-no-umi-no-nadia-the-africa-arc-episodes-32-34/ No worries about spoilers, it's a classic filler arc anyway ... Opinions? I'm in for the whole show. I watched an analysis video on Nadia a while ago and heard about the different studios and inconsistencies, but still, I'd like to see them myself and make my own mind up. I love some of the One Piece filler episodes, when things slow down for a few episodes and the characters muck around. |
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| Episode 5 Damn, hardcore episode that engages with a small child losing her parents and dog. Then Jean and Nadia go out and bury them in the dead of night before having to be the ones to explain to Marie that her parents died. All of this is handled well by the show with some sincere gravitas and solid emotional beats. Meanwhile, dudes in masks and hoods captured Team Rocket and shoot to kill our heroes plus their new orphan friend Marie. Show got real. Interesting to hear that Team Rocket got their interest in the Blue Water from this set of terrorists, though it's unclear what they're hiding on this island or why they wanted the Blue Water in the first place. Anyway, to answer @inim, I'd say go for it. Don't really want to exclude anything from this, and hey, if we get to have some fun dishing on the show for a while while it takes a detour, all the better. |
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| Episode 6. Lets see which version I'm watching (a blu ray rip from the numbered pirate site I think, no legal english dub version available in the UK, as with so many older shows sadly) and will it contain no panty shots? I am indeed watching the uncensored version including pointless no panty shot whilst Nadia is sliding down the coal chute (why would Nadia not be wearing any pants, because she comes from Africa, or because she worked in the circus, or maybe he simply wanted to titillate the teenage male audience with the notion of what lies under the skirt, either way utterly pointless) and under boob, which made more sense as Nadia was hot. Nadia and Jean learn about the workings of Neo Atlan and its forced labour camps, including team rocket and then Nadia lets herself get caught to save Jean and the bluewater stone. Gargoyle and his goons are mining neohalycum, a substance that reacts to the bluewater stone. |
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| Episode 6 Seems like I'm watching the uncensored version as well. Good to see this stuff play out as it actually was, and given that this whole thing started with Jean's attraction to Nadia, it makes sense that there's some of this. Of course, it's also just basic fanservice and a bit of levity in the middle of some hectic stuff. This is our infiltration episode with our heroes staying just far enough under the radar to make it into the enemy base, but being discovered due to Nadia's Blue Water somehow working with a central device, likely giving it power. There's also some side stuff involving Team Rocket who put themselves in a tricky situation with the Neo Nazi/KKK people called Neo Atlan. The whole thing ends with Nadia functioning as bait to let Jean get away with Blue Water. |
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| Episode 7. So Nadia is treated like a princess by Gargoyle who says he knows her past and dad. Another brutal scene with Gargoyle threatening Marie. Jean and the Rocket Trio make their way through the factories and city on their way to the caste. Gargoyle shows off his doom weapon. |
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| Episode 7 Gargoyle interrogates captured Nadia about the whereabouts of her Blue Water gem. He once more is portrayed as extremely ruthless and brutal, this time he threatens to kill Marie and King. As proof how little he values life, he shoots one of his own soldiers, and their discipline is showcased by the fact the other soldiers do not even react to it. Nadia has no choice but to reveal Jean has the stone, and the manhunt begins. She herself is held prisoner (separate from Marie, who is in a much uglier place) with official princess treatment which she dislikes. Gargoyle claims he knew her since she was a baby, so this may be true and their history is linked. This would perfectly match the overall Disney-ism of the show, of course there's a princess in any such show. Grandis trio further established as comic relief with their take on prison break. The small fat stooge is a mechanical genius and picks the lock with a hairpin. The tall "most handsome man" is strong enough to bend iron bars. Jean and Grandis come up with the same idea, to use a fright train to enter the castle. They are placed in different wagons, not noticing how close they are to each other. Grandis brags about his control of nature, and shows his artificial Atlantean garden to Nadia and Marie. That guy suffers from a severe creator god complex, Nadia calls it blasphemy. Then he for the first time activates his Bond Villain Doomsday Device, a sci-fi weapon in the form of Pieter Bruegel's Tower of Babel painting. The room he commands the test launch from has Mesopotamian winged lions in the back, before there was a Poseidon statue in the garden scene. The weapon uses Earth orbit satellites to redirect the destructive beam to any place on Earth, which are 12,000 years old according to Gargoyle. So we have the "ancient technology" trope, and given it's Gainax a good chance of "It's Aliens, stupid!" chance. In the cliffhanger scene, Nemo watches the shooting of the giant beam weapon from his ship, and understands the whole planet is at risk now. Overall, I continue to love the blend of Disney visuals, character typecasting and comedy with unbridled Japanese anime violence and fan service. It's a win-win combination. This doesn't go as far as deconstruction, but it clearly turns Disney up to eleven. |
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| Episode 8 The Grandis trio and Jean wake at the freight train terminal inside the castle after a shock wave caused by the Babylon test. They agree on a cease fire and cooperation to free Nadia (and the gem, as Jean makes them believe). Their plan is to overheat the power plant by blocking cooling. Short fat stooge is tasked with this. Jean's part is to pretend surrender to Gargoyle, while Grandis and tall beau use stolen uniforms and pose as his guards, so they can get into the "throne room" armed. The plan fails due to a force field protecting Gargoyle. The scenes censored on the 1996 German TV version are those showing Nadia crucified. In one scene's accompanying dialog, she also offers Gargoyle "to do with me whatever you want". Also the way Marie and King are hung strongly resembles hanging of partisans by the Wehrmacht from WW2, where steel wire was used. Frankly, that scene wasn't really worth censoring, even within this show there were "better" candidates. Then the breakdown by lack of cooling kicks in and Babylon's power system starts to explode, eventually taking half the island with it. The escape itself is regressing to children TV standards, where the most silly plans work like a charm and the laws of physics an logic don't matter. The Nautilus surfaces inside the heavily protected island's harbor and picks up the refugee group. There's a gigantic plot hole here. Jean says "I'll go and take Nadia down", minutes later the island blows up, and in the next cut she's well and onboard of the Nautilus. Everything else is off-screen magic, meh. Gargoyle himself brings the downfall on himself, with his brain dead attempt to use Babylon on the nautilus. Not only would he fire into his own harbor (killing his own troops and destroying his own submarine), he also is made aware that the system is low on energy and already heavily damaged. Overall, a weak episode despite crucification fetish (perfect Easter episode!) and solid kiddy action visuals. Almost everything felt rushed and lacks logic, as if they just wanted to end the arc at all cost. Which they did, now we have an uneasy alliance of the three "good" teams: Grandis trio, Nadia's group, and the Nautilus crew. Gargoyle is at large, but for sure he has a plan B. |
inimApr 16, 2022 6:20 AM
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| Episode 8. Great escape episode where we see the new tower of Babel fall and the weapon destroyed. As with @inim I'm loving this Disney type adventure mixed with the usual villains like Rocket Trio, anime staples like the fan service and budding romance, but also Gargoyle and Nemo who don't seem your usual Disney characters. I was a bit tired yday but on reflection Gargoyle's argument to Nadia "if you don't tell me where the bluewater is you're friends will die [because I'll shoot them] and it'll be your fault", an argument often used, notwithstanding the fact that it's Gargoyle's decision and agency of choice that would kill Marie and King, not Nadia's. Gargoyle and Nemo seem like quite dark characters. So now Nadia, Jean, Marie, King and rocket Trio have escaped the island, what will happen to them next? I also love the ancient weapon mixed with ancient symbolism (aka Laputa). I'm off to a family Sunday roast and Aria is meeting her cousins for the first time. Happy Easter to both of you @inim @whiteflame55, have a nice day |
23feanorApr 17, 2022 12:50 AM
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| Episode 9 This starts with a concise recap of the first arc, appreciated. The three previously independent groups fighting Neo Atlantis (Nautilus crew, Jean & Nadia, and the Grandis trio) are united on board of the nautilus. The episode takes it's time to establish relations and pair characters. Grandis falls in love with Neo, Hanson confesses his love to Grandis to Sanson, Jean and Hanson (short fat Grandis guy) bond as tech nerds, and Electra drops the mask and shows to be a decent human being. Nadia sees Nemo for the first time, and both end up in a staring contest. Definitely something special between them, but Nemo flees the situation. Afterwards, he secludes in his private cabin, opens a box with a gem identical to blue water, and starts to play his church organ. The melody in return wakes up Nadia, who is drawn in sleepwalk to the captain's cabin. When Electra stops her, she explains the tune woke memories of her mother. Overall, build up episode for the next arc with character development over story progression. As such, well executed and rapidly setting up the sociogram of the new larger group. |
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| Happy Easter to you as well, @23feanor. Also, as I'm Jewish and have now been through my first two in-person Seders in quite some time, Happy Passover to anyone who celebrates or if you're just curious how matzah tastes! Episodes 7 and 8 We really blitzed through this arc. There's a lot of individual elements to cover, but what's most confusing is just what led to all this, which is probably going to be covered in subsequent episodes. For the time being, we have a maniacal masked lord (Gargoyle) leading an army of other masked individuals to create the Tower of Babylon and basically nuke the planet by shooting energy a very old but somehow still very active satellite. Unfortunately for Gargoyle, he spends his one shot on a demonstration. Shame how evil dudes always end up doing that. Team Rocket teamed up with Jean and fought back, managing to blow up their power plant with surprising ease and, as a result, destroy the Tower of Babylon. A little crazy considering just how much security they had and how little Gargoyle seems to care after the fact (you know, aside from killing an underling to feel strong), but with The Nautilus, a transformer tank and a surprisingly strong henchman on their side, Jean, Nadia, Marie and King are able to make it out alive. I agree with @inim that this is a pretty rushed set of episodes. Despite a decent build-up for these villains (very little in the way of motivations, though), their long-built plans go up in smoke surprisingly fast and everything just collapses around them. Considering how these guys are likely to be central to the rest of the show, it just felt like there was a good amount of wasted potential here, a moment to kind of be like the Empire from Star Wars with their Death Star rather than failing after the first shot. Oh well, we'll see if they can build them back up again. |
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| @whiteflame55 I'm not actually religious myself, Easter in the UK is celebrated as a holiday (we get 2 bank holidays, Friday and Monday so everyone has a 4 day weekend to see family) by most like Halloween or Xmas, ie seeing family and having food and drink. I've only ever seen Jewish holidays like the Seder meal for Passover on tv, I had to google the details. I do remember the details of passover slightly better from my days at Sunday school though. Hope you and your family/friends had a pleasant meal. Episode 9. The damn OP has firmly embedded itself into my brain! That was a decent set up episode for the next portion of the show and brings Jean, Nadia, Marie & King together with the Rocket Trio and the Nautilus crew with Nemo and Electra. To spice things up we get some budding romance with Grandis falling for Nemo. We also get hints that Nemo knows something of Nadia and her past or parents, and her connection to the bluewater stone. |
23feanorApr 18, 2022 5:28 AM
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| Episode 10 Nothing is team building faster than a lethal external threat caused by a common enemy. The episode does precisely this by placing the Nautilus in an underwater passage blocked by mines on both ends, a vicious trap created by Gargoyle. It's a battle against time, when in 3h the currents change the mines will destroy the Nautilus. The Grandis gang's mecha-vehicle is modified into to makeshift mine sweeper. Despite setbacks the teams join forces and succeed to defuse enough mines so the Nautilus can safely surface. Another episode with extremely fast plot progression. Is this "rushed", or is it just the steady pace needed to keep an adventure genre story going and interesting? Undoubtedly Legend of the Galactic Heroes had made 5 episodes of this trap scenario: one for setup, two for problems, one for execution, and another to explain what just happened in the historical context. Nadia does the other extreme and I won't complain as long as they do it consistently and with fresh ideas to fill the episodes. Overall, we just witnessed the transformation of three groups into one large team. Average episode. |
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| @23feanor Wouldn't count myself as very religious either, though I still enjoy the holidays. This was certainly a good time. Episode 9 The dynamic shifts in this episode really make it worth the watch. I particular enjoy watching Jean and Hanson nerd out over the Nautilus, it's just nice to see the overlap between these two characters panning out. Grandis is a little more out of left field, given her sudden attraction to Nemo, but it's nice to see a side of her that's a little less Jessie of Team Rocket and a lot more lovestruck. Some intrigue here as well given Nemo clearly being in some way related to Nadia, perhaps an uncle or even her father. He's her only connection to her past, so this could play out in interesting directions, even though he's clearly not forthcoming about it. No idea what our central villains are up to, but it appears that our main cast, Team Rocket and the crew of the Nautilus have at least loosely joined forces. That should present a substantial threat. |
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| Episode 10. The Nautilus and crew fall into a trap set by Gargoyle. Nadia and Jean are told to sleep in separate rooms as they are becoming adults and must behave properly, ie no hanky panky, and they fight. Grandis offers to help save the sub using the Gratan and Handson, Sanson and Jean pilot the sub removing the mines. A shared problem brings the crew together and Nadia forgives Jean for being a perv and always staring at her chest. I'm quite enjoying the fast paced nature of events so far, keeping the adventure feel of the show foremost. Despite the adult themed imagery at times, the dialogue is very simple. |
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| Episode 11 The star of this episode is the Nautilus itself. The new passengers by crew vote are made members: Sailors and Officers (Jean, Sanson, Hanson), Students under teacher Electra (Marie, King) and cooks (Nadia, Grandis). The technology of the ship is centuries ahead of the steampunk era, featuring an electrical drive and a particle annihilation reactor which is one of a kind on Earth. Electra allows Jean to study the advanced science by using her private library. Grandis tries to impress Nemo with ugly looking yet tasty fish meals, with mixed results. King snatches one of them and the chase ends in the reactor room where Nemo explains Jean that the reactor is unique and would allow to drive a star ship. It's dual use, and also could destroy the world. In the kitchen, Nadia is repelled by dead fish, the vegetarianism is strong in her. Overall, more world building and character development. The fact space is mentioned twice (reactor drive star-ship, and sky above the sea) plus it's Gainax may be considered a Chekhov's gun. An average episode, and by show standards slow paced. |
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| Episode 11. The first episode where adventure takes a back seat and things settle down on board the nautilus as Grandis, Hanson and Sanson are admitted as crew, and Jean, Nadia, Marie and King are honorary assistant crew. Something Electra takes exception too, mainly because of Grandis and her infatuation with Nemo, a rival for his affections in Electra's eyes. Jean learns more about the Nautilus and it's workings, most notably for the story it's ancient atomic power source, which the author makes clear is a boon and a burden for humanity, and can be either used to take us to the stars or as a weapon of war. Jean learns from Nemo that knowledge is a double edged sword and more specifically it's application will determine it's impact. |
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| Episode 12 The Nautilus stops on a tropical island to fill up supplies, yielding half a beach episode with romantic shenanigans. Electra and Grandis are sliding into open cat fight over Nemo, with plenty of pointed remarks about age and similar sensitive female topics. Sanson hasn't given up on Grandis either, peeping on her. Jean is lured into the same, and we get a first (Barbie anatomy) topless view on Nadia in this context. She isn't very angry about it, and the two of them soon after enjoy beach life. Grandis bonds with Nadia by sharing her back story. She's from a wealthy family but fell for a marriage swindler, who ruined her family. In the end only a box of jewels was left, which caused her to become a jewelry thief. Sanson and Hanson were former domestic employees who stayed with her. She claims that her newfound love to Nemo puts and end to all criminal ambitions, and by implication her interest in Blue Water. Sick of the constant fish diet, Sanson sets up a hunting party and ... kills Bambi for fun and food. Nadia is outraged and runs off. Overall, more character development, some fan service, and unfolding veggie drama around Nadia. Average and relaxing. |
inimApr 20, 2022 12:37 PM
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| Not much to say about Episode 11. The adventure takes a backseat for once and we're treated to Grandis making Nemo a meal of an anglerfish that looks awful but tastes great. We get little insights over the course of the episode into the submarine, which are capped off by the revelation that they are using an atomic energy engine that must be old, but is well beyond the capacities of humanity at this time. Nadia fails at kitchen duty, loses her lion briefly, and then we find Nemo standing outside with the giant blue stone, a depression in the top that appears just the size of her Blue Water. It's good to get a bit more levity and comedy in this series, though a few parts of this episode dragged a bit. Absent the kinetic action of its adventure elements, this series can lose some steam. |
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| Episode 12. The Nautilus and crew land at an island for supplies. Another slower paced episode with fan service thrown in. We also get an insight into Grandis's past, which softens her up to the audience quite a bit. This episode felt like a mini rom-com, Grandis and electra clearly becoming rivals for Nemo's affection, and plenty of slapstick moments. Then we get Nadia's outburst at the hunt for killing a baby deer. RIP Bambi. We're 12 eps in and I am enjoying the mix of adventure, comedy and romance. Easy to watch, nice OST and looks pleasing to the eye. |
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| Episode 13 Jean and Naida have a "marital argument", as Marie puts it, about the roasted Bambi. Who's mortal remains Marie has buried (sic!) to appease Nadia. At times this show can be involuntarily creepy. Nobody has time to play with Marie, so she frolics around the island and soon is hopelessly lost. This segment is very lighthearted and she's behaving like a 4 years old child should. Suddenly Marie runs into Neo-Atlantean soldiers. She tricks one, but runs into a crab mecha. Sanson, who is searching for her, comes to the rescue and they continue to flee together in a lorry car (Greetings from Laputa!). The chase is played for childish action comedy, laws of physics and logic don't apply. Maybe Anno overdoes this scene intentionally to have a starker contrast to the following events. In any case, I've never seen people having more fun while being chased by an enemy military vehicle with kill intent. And why do Japanese robots all have conic drills attached? Sanson and Marie make it to the camp, the imperial walker still behind them. The mecha breaks down there and an injured Neo-Atlantean solider comes out, shooting at Nadia. Nemo doesn't hesitate and shoots back with his pistol, killing the soldier. Again Nadia is shocked and furious, her respect for all life seems to be very deep rooted. I really wish we had some backstory to justify it. Given she was sold to the circus as a toddler, where does this come from? Nemo orders a quick retreat and the Nautilus leaves the island before more troops arrive. Overall, after a few calm and slow episodes, both action and Neo-Atlantis are back. The action was kiddy grade, very light entertainment. The ethical questions raised about the value of life aren't answered or discussed. Nadia's reaction to the killing of Bambi and the unknown soldier, along with the Bambi burial leave me a little confused. Why is this theme built up, it doesn't feel natural. |
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| Episode 13. Marie goes on a 4 year olds adventure (i enjoyed all her innocent frolicking with King mixed with the theme song) and ends up lost. She then runs into the Neo Atlanteans and Sanson comes to Marie's rescue, action sequence included. Nadia's position does seem a bit out of left field atm, guessing the show is building her intolerance for violence of any sort up for a reason, which we'll discover later along with the root cause of her stance against killing of any type. |
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| Episode 14 Straightforward and self-contained one episode adventure in the deep sea. Marie and Nadia are seriously ill and need a sea weed which only grows in a deep chasm populated by deep sea creatures time forgot. An expedition is formed which is a reminder this is still a kids show. Nemo (captains don't leave their ships for risky missions, that is what red shirts are for), Jean (MC), King (because, cute) and Sanson (because: zero experience underwater). They find the healing weed, but are trapped by a gigantic predator fish. In a cooperative move and despite a serious blunder they trick the fish and make it home. There's a bit of aftermath about Nemo's killing of the Neo-Atlantean soldier. Nadia's pacifism runs deep, she claims she'd prefer to be killed over somebody else being killed instead. She's pretty alone with that opinion, and Nemo prefers not to comment at all. Nevertheless, we get statements on ethics by multiple chars. Overall, a generic kid adventure plot with the big fish, and some ethic discussion. Without the latter, I'd call it filler. A below average episode. |
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| Episodes 12 and 13 make a nice pair. Both are set on a small island where our heroes have stopped off for supplies. Despite saying several times that they're going hunting and they'll be shooting stuff, Nadia ends up very upset when they end up shooting something (a baby deer, insert Bambi reference) and storming off. There's also a good bit of comedy in this one, including the usual "men leering at changing women" moments and some competition for the affection of Nemo between Grandis and Electra, even though Nemo seems pretty clearly aloof. Probably the best part of either of these episodes, though, is getting some insight into Grandis as a character via her backstory. It's honestly a breath of fresh air to have her be something more than just a lovestruck character who was after some bling, and though the story isn't anything special, the way she tells it drew me in as it did the kids. I'm pretty sure she'll have her heart broken soon, so this won't go well. Episode 13 mainly follows Marie and King as they get lost on the island and stumble upon the New Atlantians. We get some bits of character moments thrown in there, with the most important being the disconnect between Jean and Nadia (dude should at least be able to get the basics of why she's vegetarian, even if he wouldn't do it himself, but he's a kid so I'm giving him a pass). Marie and King nearly end up shot, Marie runs into Sanson, and they fight a crab robot, calling out every lucky turn that prevents their imminent demise. They somehow make it back to the camp after a very cartoony chase scene, and the injured pilot tries to shoot people, but ends up shot dead by Nemo. This infuriates Nadia who apparently has trouble understanding that an enemy with a gun is dangerous, though maybe she just thought he should have been disarmed and taken into custody or something. So yeah, Nadia's a bit overly idealistic about the sanctity of life, but I'm sure we'll get some reasons for that as we progress. |
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| Episode 15 Bad hair day for the Nautilus and their crew. They run into another trap while chasing the Neo-Atlantean submarine Garfish. First they are hit by multiple water bombs, then only closely evade four torpedoes, just to be rammed by the Garfish (which explodes). The Nautilus surfaces, where the vengeful US fleet from the early episode is waiting (Gargolye lured them here). They again "shoot first ask never" style shell the "sea monster" heavily. Nemo decides to fake sinking and play dead on the sea floor, until the fleet leaves. The ethics theme hinted at before repeatedly now takes the driver seat of the story, by constructing a textbook grade Consequentialism vs. Deontology dilemma. A genius red shirt sailor named Fait (Jean shown bonding with him before, also a homonym of fate) is trapped in the reactor area, which leaks toxic gas. Nemo once more makes a consequential-ist decision, and seals the area despite a few people still left there. The damaged Nautilus can't surface (which would allow rescue), they are doomed to a slow death by radioactivity. Nadia, previously a vocal proponent of deontolog-ist positions (Bambi, pistol kill-shot), is remarkably quiet to the point of silent support. While in previous episodes deadly situations were resolved with cartoonish ease, the show is merciless now and lets Fait die. The crew even has to listen his to agony via audio transmission. No magic bullet. In an extra twist, the question of man playing god vs. nature is mixed in. Fait had given artificial flowers to jean, a gift for Nadia to fix their relation strained over recent ethics clashes. She rejected them in disgust, as they reminded her of Gargoyle's garden which she perceived as blasphemy against nature and the gods. Fait is unaware of this, and mentions the flowers and Nadia in his dying breath. The flowers' now become visible as a symbol of good intentions to Nadia. This is the same Dentology vs. Consequentialism conflict on a smaller scale. Something she dislikes (artificial nature) can be something good (a symbol of love). It's obvious I loved this episode. In school I took an ethics class, as I am atheist and this avoided taking a religion class. It's always a good feeling to be able to apply dry theory. I had to look up the Anglo-American terms, as in German school we used the definitions of Max Weber for which Wikipedia has no articles: Gesinnungsethik (absolute moral standards for the action, regardless of outcome) vs. Verantwortungsethik (only the morality of the result is judged, not the means getting there). Poor Nadia now has quite a bit food for thought, I don't think she can uphold her strict Gesinnungsethik. much longer. Overall, excellent animation, excellent writing, excellent ethical theme. So far my favorite episode. |
inimApr 24, 2022 3:03 AM
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| Episode 14 Illness grips our young ladies Marie and Nadia, except this illness is some rare tropical BS that no one else picked up, is untreatable by anything on the sub requiring them to go to a reef that's conveniently close by, and will kill them in exactly two days. Coming from a microbiology background, maybe I'm just a little sensitive to this stuff, but I'm not a big fan of this kind of storytelling method. I don't mind that it's untreatable via their magic healing juice on the submarine, but I do mind its extremely limited spread (everyone else was also on the island and was then crammed into close quarters with them) and absolute timetable of collapsing to death. It's here to give Nemo a chance to show his humanity by calling off an opportunity to fight Gargoyle's submarine in favor of saving two children, which is all well and good, but it's also just kinda silly. Anyway, we have underwater adventures where Jean's just a little too cavalier for my liking, even if he's called out for it. Making a suit for King just seemed pointless and time consuming for someone who is risking their life and those of the men around him to save Nadia and Marie, and in the end, the lion cub's presence only served to create more tension. Anyway, they get it after explaining and demonstrating phototaxis and the day is saved, with Nadia learning some kind of lesson about how the person she screamed was a murderer saved her life and now she has complicated feelings about him. So yeah, didn't enjoy this one. Found more to gripe about than to appreciate here. |
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| Episode 14. Whilst close to catching the Garfish, Marie and then Nadia contract a tropical illness leaving them 48 hours to live with the rare medicine only found deep in an ocean trench. I noted that Nemo only ordered the Nautilus to disengage from its chase of the Garfish when Nadia contracted the illness, much to Electra's dismay. Nemo and amateur divers, Jean, King, Hanson and Sanson take a deep dive to retrieve the rare medicine needed to cure the tropical illness. I agree with @whiteflame55 parts of this episode plot seemed ridiculous (eg King in a dive suit and Nemo taking a bunch of amateur divers), but hey it's anime. Episode 15. The Nautilus walks into another trap set by Gargoyle and ends up crippled after being shelled by the US navy (on a tip off from Gargoyle). We get another fairly harrowing scene where the crew has to observe and listen to Monsieur Fate die, stoically at first but then pleading for his life, Jean's crying was hard to listen to. As @inim described above some decent ethical issues for both Nadia and the audience to digest on the subject of whether the ends justify the means when making life and death decisions in pursuit of an ideal or goal, and how this impacts the person/s making the decision. I remember studying Weber in sociology/economics at college and uni many years ago. |
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| Episode 16. A strangely solemn and poignant episode. Nadia starts by questioning why the bluewater stone came to her and why people keep dying to protect her and it. The Nautilus and crew make there way to Atlantis (via a gate and tunnel made from the skeleton of a giant by the looks of it, reminded me of the space port No-where in Guardians of the Galaxy film) and we learn that the bluewater stones come from Atlantis, but why and how Nadia and Nemo come to have them is yet unknown. Nadia's griping at Nemo is wearing a bit thin. The deceased crew mates are put to rest and Jean learns his father passed away when his ship was attacked. Loved the imagery in this episode. Admiring how this show shifts between tones from one episode to another, adventure, comedy, tragedy. |
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| Episode 16 Nemo's crew visits Atlantis to bury the three dead engineers on a memorial graveyard dedicated to those fallen fighting Neo-Atlantis. Atlantis has air and light, despite being underwater and even natural flowers can be found. The burial procession and ritual is solemn and has many "memento mori" moments. A number of dialogs surrounding the event circle around death, duty, and sacrifice of oneself and others. Several crew members and Nemo conduct them with Nadia, who they seem to carefully prepare for a future responsibility and tough decisions. Atlantis itself is post-apocalyptic, visually destroyed by violence and not old age. The original of the Tower of Babel is located here as well, of which Gargoyle tried to build a copy. It seems functional and able to wield the same power as the copy. We learn a little more about the blue gems as well. Nemo's copy serves as a key to open the impressive gate of Atlantis, a giant skeleton facing it's back to the sea and it's face towards the inner tunnel leading to the sunk city. Nadia's gem is harder than the hardest metal Jean knows which surprises him (ever heard of diamond, Mr. Genius?). When Nadia throws the gem into the sea to get rid of her fate and responsibility, it magically comes back to her. This way it seems to be a mere token of her fate, she herself is the magic entity. Jean questions the nature of technology, which seems to bring only death and destruction. Of all people it's Nadia to point out that it also can bring happiness. Overall, as @23feanor pointed out this episode gives us another tone shift towards dark and serious elements. A few scenes, such as the B/W dialogs of Nadia, can be counted as proto-EVA ideas where Shinji takes her role as "the chosen one quarreling with destiny". An above average episode which sees serious character development for Nadia and Jean. |
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| Episode 15 Damn, and here I thought we’d gotten as dark as we would get with New Atlantas killing a child’s parents right in front of her, but here we are watching as a young man who tried to help Jean with his love life is sealed behind a door and dies in terror inhaling poisonous fumes. Don’t remember any Saturday morning cartoons that ended an episode with a young man pleading for his life and sharply cutting off while two kids bang on the door helplessly… I do believe they said there were two other people behind that door, but they’re unnamed characters so we don’t hear from them. Anyway, the rest of the episode is mainly focused on the Garfish getting the drop on the Nautilus again in much crueler fashion: disabling the sub, ramming it (for some reason… I’m not clear this did anything except destroy the Garfish, though it might have pushed them that much further), and forcing it to surface… only to face the might of the American navy. With no other way out, they fake sink to the bottom of the ocean, leading to the aforementioned poisonous gas leak. Pretty brutal, even though everyone else is fine. There’s also a bit more in here about Nadia’s frustrations over Nemo trying to murder people and Jean coming a little closer to her perspective in the end. Great episode, real stakes. |
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