A Certain Magical Index (light novel)
| Are rumors true that Komachi didn't initially expect the series to become so iconic, so he overestimated his interest in Index and her importance to the franchise? As far as I can tell from the development of the plot, somewhere from the sisters arc onwards, her importance to the plot degrades more and more, and by the time of the third season she is nothing more than a comedic relief. Hell, some of the arcs are literally looking for reasons to keep her out of Touma's main adventures. Which is pretty ironic since her name is literally in the title of the series. |
 |
axtrast said: RobertBobert said: Are rumors true that Komachi didn't initially expect the series to become so iconic, so he overestimated his interest in Index and her importance to the franchise? As far as I can tell from the development of the plot, somewhere from the sisters arc onwards, her importance to the plot degrades more and more, and by the time of the third season she is nothing more than a comedic relief. Hell, some of the arcs are literally looking for reasons to keep her out of Touma's main adventures. Which is pretty ironic since her name is literally in the title of the series. Her name is in the title but the story isn't about her unlike Toaru Kagaku No Railgun. The story showcases how Touma's life changed after he met Index. In fact, she isn't even a main character in the Toaru Majutsu No Index:New Testament(LN) which is the sequel of Toaru Majutsu No Index(LN). Even so, it's rather strange to see her become more of a background character with each arc and the villains' plans even ignore her despite all the drama of the first arcs. It's like if Emilia is slowly becoming a background character in ReZero while will be Subaru busy protecting and rescuing a bunch of all sorts of girls. |
|
| He began writing the series when he was only 16 years old, so I suppose it would make sense that there are characters and plot devices that he has since changed his mind on, such as Index. |
 |
G1llette said: He began writing the series when he was only 16 years old, so I suppose it would make sense that there are characters and plot devices that he has since changed his mind on, such as Index. Only 16 years old? I heard that he is a nerd hikimori who writes content a lot. |
|
| Both author and JC are biased towards Railgun and it is plain as day. Third season of Index being so unbelievably botched is a perfect proof. |
 |
Piromysl said: Both author and JC are biased towards Railgun and it is plain as day. Third season of Index being so unbelievably botched is a perfect proof. I could understand it in the context of the anime, but it's still an adaptation of the original work, which sells way better than Ralgun. |
|
| It's true that the author didn't expect the LN to become so popular at the beginning. In 2004, the idea of a British nun being a main heroine felt cool. Index could have even confessed to Touma if he didn't lose his memories. Then she would have become main heroine. But that didn't happen. Index is still a child-brained magical genius with few months of memory and she would only get somewhat relevance in a certain part of NT. Better read Toaru Nichijou no Index for an idea of how an Index series would be if Index gets more screentime. The other members of the Anglican church are so badass, they tend to get more screentime, which also makes sense plotwise. Also you have to consider Touma's calendar. He got absolutely no brakes or rest. There's not many characters who would hang around him for more than one or two arcs. I mean dude freaking had two arcs during Daihasei itself, got to Italy for fighting an Armada, came back for an invasion, only to leave the city to be skydropped in the middle of France unrest, came back to be skewered by Acqua, then get thrown in the middle of British Civil War and then rush to Russia for a World War where he dies in the middle of Arctic. All this happens in 6 weeks |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: It's true that the author didn't expect the LN to become so popular at the beginning. In 2004, the idea of a British nun being a main heroine felt cool. Index could have even confessed to Touma if he didn't lose his memories. Then she would have become main heroine. But that didn't happen. Index is still a child-brained magical genius with few months of memory and she would only get somewhat relevance in a certain part of NT. Better read Toaru Nichijou no Index for an idea of how an Index series would be if Index gets more screentime. The other members of the Anglican church are so badass, they tend to get more screentime, which also makes sense plotwise. Also you have to consider Touma's calendar. He got absolutely no brakes or rest. There's not many characters who would hang around him for more than one or two arcs. I mean dude freaking had two arcs during Daihasei itself, got to Italy for fighting an Armada, came back for an invasion, only to leave the city to be skydropped in the middle of France unrest, came back to be skewered by Acqua, then get thrown in the middle of British Civil War and then rush to Russia for a World War where he dies in the middle of Arctic. All this happens in 6 weeks Yes, I noticed this when the beginning of the second season implies that half of the first actually happened in a couple of days. It just confuses me that the franchise seems so overloaded with factions, characters, and various conspiracies that it often looks more like an anthology of stories in one big setting than a solid plot. Especially when Railgun became so big that it got its own spin-offs, that is, becoming a spin-off with its own spin-offs. |
|
RobertBobert said: Yes, I noticed this when the beginning of the second season implies that half of the first actually happened in a couple of days. It just confuses me that the franchise seems so overloaded with factions, characters, and various conspiracies that it often looks more like an anthology of stories in one big setting than a solid plot. Especially when Railgun became so big that it got its own spin-offs, that is, becoming a spin-off with its own spin-offs. It feels like an anthology, but you will see references and connections 30 volumes apart. Index is like a light novel version of One Piece. The universe is always expanding and there's actually an endgame of sorts you can theorize while reading New Testament. The author forgets no plot point and they become relevant at a certain time. That being said, before the Academy City Invasion Arc in Index II, it's totally anthology like, with world-building (magic side and Sister's Arc shenanigans) being the main focus; after that it's all connected storywise. Index III, being horrible, didn't provide any plot coherence. You have freaking world politics, religious factions, science side dark groups in a parallely running story and they think doing 3500+ pages in 26 episodes is a dope idea. Imagine an adaptation that skips the mental breakdown and backstory of the protagonist. And it's not even Index III that did it. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: Yes, I noticed this when the beginning of the second season implies that half of the first actually happened in a couple of days. It just confuses me that the franchise seems so overloaded with factions, characters, and various conspiracies that it often looks more like an anthology of stories in one big setting than a solid plot. Especially when Railgun became so big that it got its own spin-offs, that is, becoming a spin-off with its own spin-offs. It feels like an anthology, but you will see references and connections 30 volumes apart. Index is like a light novel version of One Piece. The universe is always expanding and there's actually an endgame of sorts you can theorize while reading New Testament. The author forgets no plot point and they become relevant at a certain time. That being said, before the Academy City Invasion Arc in Index II, it's totally anthology like, with world-building (magic side and Sister's Arc shenanigans) being the main focus; after that it's all connected storywise. Index III, being horrible, didn't provide any plot coherence. You have freaking world politics, religious factions, science side dark groups in a parallely running story and they think doing 3500+ pages in 26 episodes is a dope idea. Imagine an adaptation that skips the mental breakdown and backstory of the protagonist. And it's not even Index III that did it. Well, when adapting, ReZero had to remove a lot of important scenes just to fit 9 not-so-short volumes into 25 episodes. It's hard for me to imagine how they put more than 10 into 26 here. |
|
| @RobertBobert Oh, for Re:Zero S1 they adapted a little more than 2200 pages of LN content. It's still not good, as Arc 3 suffered the most. Re:Zero S2 fixed the adaptation cut-off by a lot, doing 1600+ pages in expanded 25 episodes. Even after that we had something unfulfilling like the Episode 13. Mushoku Tensei is doing the job a lot better - they are going at a nice pace and are nailing the important character moments. However, I read only arc 3 of Re:Zero fully in LN format, while most of the rest in WN format. For MT, I read only WN. I felt MT is slightly more easier to adapt as Re:Zero has occasionally those dialogues and monologues that mostly feel epic only when reading it, rather than hearing in voice. Perhaps the best treatment was for 86. Now that's a perfect LN adaptation. Adapting Index is a lot tougher because Kamachi is basically Far Eastern Rider Haggard. He's the type to use a black hole analogy to explain the mechanism behind a safety pin. You need to change the mode of narrative to give it an anime format. But there's no one who works that hard in the industry, especially in something very business like - J. C. Staff. Which is why they took advantage of the manga format of Railgun and now are so scared of touching NT, they are spoiling us through gachas. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: @RobertBobert Oh, for Re:Zero S1 they adapted a little more than 2200 pages of LN content. It's still not good, as Arc 3 suffered the most. Re:Zero S2 fixed the adaptation cut-off by a lot, doing 1600+ pages in expanded 25 episodes. Even after that we had something unfulfilling like the Episode 13. Mushoku Tensei is doing the job a lot better - they are going at a nice pace and are nailing the important character moments. However, I read only arc 3 of Re:Zero fully in LN format, while most of the rest in WN format. For MT, I read only WN. I felt MT is slightly more easier to adapt as Re:Zero has occasionally those dialogues and monologues that mostly feel epic only when reading it, rather than hearing in voice. Perhaps the best treatment was for 86. Now that's a perfect LN adaptation. Adapting Index is a lot tougher because Kamachi is basically Far Eastern Rider Haggard. He's the type to use a black hole analogy to explain the mechanism behind a safety pin. You need to change the mode of narrative to give it an anime format. But there's no one who works that hard in the industry, especially in something very business like - J. C. Staff. Which is why they took advantage of the manga format of Railgun and now are so scared of touching NT, they are spoiling us through gachas. Do you think that they put such a big emphasis on Railgun, not least because of the fear of getting problems again with the adaptation of LN content? |
|
RobertBobert said: Do you think that they put such a big emphasis on Railgun, not least because of the fear of getting problems again with the adaptation of LN content? Tbh, I don't know what's going behind the scenes. They did hire a smarter director behind Railgun, which used the then popular 4-girl SoL format to bloat 17 chapters into 24 episodes full of filler. It slowly grew in popularity in comparision to Index, which felt like a typical early LN based anime. Index S2 was good, but it was adapting some of the weaker arcs, before Academy City Invasion Arc, where they did one thing definitely right. Accelerator. Hence he developed a huge fanbase. But the first 16 episodes of Railgun S were done so well, it was perhaps the best J.C. Staff production in years. That ensured that Railgun is their favourite child. They also have a big market in China, which has a big Misaka fanbase. By the way, they again caught up with source material, so project stopped. I don't know what they were doing in the 6 years after that. Old Testament was already fully written. I have heard that Index III had originally at least 36 episodes in planning. But production committee didn't allow that. Again, they wanted to adapt the rest of Old Testament once and for all, to jump into NT which was in it's penultimate arc back then and going hot. So they used the 26 episode slot with a pressurized crew and lack of hands behind the project. It all ended up in a smoke. There are signs of a much better adaptation - like the brilliant background visuals. However they used the momentum to manage to adapt the mediocre Accelerator manga and the entire accumulated budget to return to their favorite child, Railgun. 8 years have passed and they have enough material to do a 2-cour filler-less season. STONKS. I think they just can't revive a franchise outta nowhere? Instead of "Project Toaru" they have "Project Index" , "Project Railgun", etc. They needed something like MCU level of planning. But no one had the motivation or vision. J.C. Staff doesn't care about things they fail in. They move on with what worked for them. Bakuman. High Score Girl. Railgun. They got a good crew behind these shows, and they gonna capitalize. However, Railgun manga content is miniscule compared to the main series. Or they would have milked one season after another. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: Do you think that they put such a big emphasis on Railgun, not least because of the fear of getting problems again with the adaptation of LN content? Tbh, I don't know what's going behind the scenes. They did hire a smarter director behind Railgun, which used the then popular 4-girl SoL format to bloat 17 chapters into 24 episodes full of filler. It slowly grew in popularity in comparision to Index, which felt like a typical early LN based anime. Index S2 was good, but it was adapting some of the weaker arcs, before Academy City Invasion Arc, where they did one thing definitely right. Accelerator. Hence he developed a huge fanbase. But the first 16 episodes of Railgun S were done so well, it was perhaps the best J.C. Staff production in years. That ensured that Railgun is their favourite child. They also have a big market in China, which has a big Misaka fanbase. By the way, they again caught up with source material, so project stopped. I don't know what they were doing in the 6 years after that. Old Testament was already fully written. I have heard that Index III had originally at least 36 episodes in planning. But production committee didn't allow that. Again, they wanted to adapt the rest of Old Testament once and for all, to jump into NT which was in it's penultimate arc back then and going hot. So they used the 26 episode slot with a pressurized crew and lack of hands behind the project. It all ended up in a smoke. There are signs of a much better adaptation - like the brilliant background visuals. However they used the momentum to manage to adapt the mediocre Accelerator manga and the entire accumulated budget to return to their favorite child, Railgun. 8 years have passed and they have enough material to do a 2-cour filler-less season. STONKS. I think they just can't revive a franchise outta nowhere? Instead of "Project Toaru" they have "Project Index" , "Project Railgun", etc. They needed something like MCU level of planning. But no one had the motivation or vision. J.C. Staff doesn't care about things they fail in. They move on with what worked for them. Bakuman. High Score Girl. Railgun. They got a good crew behind these shows, and they gonna capitalize. However, Railgun manga content is miniscule compared to the main series. Or they would have milked one season after another. So, they just took the most successful part of the franchise and started working on it, so as not to waste time and effort on something complicated and already giving them some problems? For some reason, I always thought that Railgun was getting such attention not because of the laziness of the studio, but because of the popularity of Misaka, all-female content and the franchise's great popularity with horny yuri fanboys (I have seen people who have seen yuri subtext even in relationships Index and Kanzaki) |
|
RobertBobert said: So, they just took the most successful part of the franchise and started working on it, so as not to waste time and effort on something complicated and already giving them some problems? For some reason, I always thought that Railgun was getting such attention not because of the laziness of the studio, but because of the popularity of Misaka, all-female content and the franchise's great popularity with horny yuri fanboys (I have seen people who have seen yuri subtext even in relationships Index and Kanzaki) To summarize, 1. they just didn't have a competent crew for Index compared to Railgun from the very beginning. J.C. Staff couldn't adapt LNs good, unless they focus on romance. Eg. Toradora, Sakurasao They also don't know what team is best for what project. This is the result of stagnation within the studio bureaucracy. Something like "Witch Craft Works" got a dope director to work on it! Look at Nishikori's bio. 2. They failed terribly to give Index III a good adaptation where it mattered the most, mainly due to bad scheduling and production conflicts (this is purely misfortunate) 3. But Index is highly popular and respected in Japan (because they read LN, duh). Touma is one of the most favorite and loved LN protagonists ever written. Even the Railgun manga editor loves him. 4. J.C. Staff also flopped with One Punch Man meanwhile. They ruined Date a Live Season 3 too, with slide-show animation, bad visuals and doing an entire fan-favorite volume in f**king single episode 5. Index III director, Nishikori got undeserved flak in his Twitter account when he simply thanked everyone for watching the show. 6. J.C. Staff brushed off all of these and decided to stick with what worked for them. Railgun T has one of their best animators working in it. Even SFX artist was chosen rightly (they lost the original record of Touma's IB sfx in his own show, but restored it more or less in Railgun lol) 7. To satisfy the hungry fans somehow. Index:If, merchandise and gacha promoted NT events/storylines. Life is not daijobu for Index fans. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: So, they just took the most successful part of the franchise and started working on it, so as not to waste time and effort on something complicated and already giving them some problems? For some reason, I always thought that Railgun was getting such attention not because of the laziness of the studio, but because of the popularity of Misaka, all-female content and the franchise's great popularity with horny yuri fanboys (I have seen people who have seen yuri subtext even in relationships Index and Kanzaki) To summarize, 1. they just didn't have a competent crew for Index compared to Railgun from the very beginning. J.C. Staff couldn't adapt LNs good, unless they focus on romance. Eg. Toradora, Sakurasao They also don't know what team is best for what project. This is the result of stagnation within the studio bureaucracy. Something like "Witch Craft Works" got a dope director to work on it! Look at Nishikori's bio. 2. They failed terribly to give Index III a good adaptation where it mattered the most, mainly due to bad scheduling and production conflicts (this is purely misfortunate) 3. But Index is highly popular and respected in Japan (because they read LN, duh). Touma is one of the most favorite and loved LN protagonists ever written. Even the Railgun manga editor loves him. 4. J.C. Staff also flopped with One Punch Man meanwhile. They ruined Date a Live Season 3 too, with slide-show animation, bad visuals and doing an entire fan-favorite volume in f**king single episode 5. Index III director, Nishikori got undeserved flak in his Twitter account when he simply thanked everyone for watching the show. 6. J.C. Staff brushed off all of these and decided to stick with what worked for them. Railgun T has one of their best animators working in it. Even SFX artist was chosen rightly (they lost the original record of Touma's IB sfx in his own show, but restored it more or less in Railgun lol) 7. To satisfy the hungry fans somehow. Index:If, merchandise and gacha promoted NT events/storylines. Life is not daijobu for Index fans. I take it you're not the biggest fan of J.C. staff lol. Well, jokes are jokes, but this is very disappointing to hear. I don't mind Railgun and all-female content, Misaka is my favorite character in the series and I love her dynamic with Touma. But at least due to taste, I like Index more and it's hard for me to see how, over time, its adaptation turns into something only secondary to Railgun. But if I understand correctly, fans of the franchise were also disappointed by this? |
|
RobertBobert said: Laplace_kun said: To summarize, 1. they just didn't have a competent crew for Index compared to Railgun from the very beginning. J.C. Staff couldn't adapt LNs good, unless they focus on romance. Eg. Toradora, Sakurasao They also don't know what team is best for what project. This is the result of stagnation within the studio bureaucracy. Something like "Witch Craft Works" got a dope director to work on it! Look at Nishikori's bio. 2. They failed terribly to give Index III a good adaptation where it mattered the most, mainly due to bad scheduling and production conflicts (this is purely misfortunate) 3. But Index is highly popular and respected in Japan (because they read LN, duh). Touma is one of the most favorite and loved LN protagonists ever written. Even the Railgun manga editor loves him. 4. J.C. Staff also flopped with One Punch Man meanwhile. They ruined Date a Live Season 3 too, with slide-show animation, bad visuals and doing an entire fan-favorite volume in f**king single episode 5. Index III director, Nishikori got undeserved flak in his Twitter account when he simply thanked everyone for watching the show. 6. J.C. Staff brushed off all of these and decided to stick with what worked for them. Railgun T has one of their best animators working in it. Even SFX artist was chosen rightly (they lost the original record of Touma's IB sfx in his own show, but restored it more or less in Railgun lol) 7. To satisfy the hungry fans somehow. Index:If, merchandise and gacha promoted NT events/storylines. Life is not daijobu for Index fans. I take it you're not the biggest fan of J.C. staff lol. Well, jokes are jokes, but this is very disappointing to hear. I don't mind Railgun and all-female content, Misaka is my favorite character in the series and I love her dynamic with Touma. But at least due to taste, I like Index more and it's hard for me to see how, over time, its adaptation turns into something only secondary to Railgun. But if I understand correctly, fans of the franchise were also disappointed by this? By fans, if you mean Toaru fans who read the source material, of course they are. Just look at a single area: Touma, one of the main protagonists of Index himself has been mostly ruined in the anime adaptation. Nobody wants that. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: I take it you're not the biggest fan of J.C. staff lol. Well, jokes are jokes, but this is very disappointing to hear. I don't mind Railgun and all-female content, Misaka is my favorite character in the series and I love her dynamic with Touma. But at least due to taste, I like Index more and it's hard for me to see how, over time, its adaptation turns into something only secondary to Railgun. But if I understand correctly, fans of the franchise were also disappointed by this? By fans, if you mean Toaru fans who read the source material, of course they are. Just look at a single area: Touma, one of the main protagonists of Index himself has been mostly ruined in the anime adaptation. Nobody wants that. That's good to hear, because I don't know how it is in the West, but there are a lot of people in the Russian Railgun's fandom who hate Touma and see it as the only way to watch the franchise. |
|
RobertBobert said: That's good to hear, because I don't know how it is in the West, but there are a lot of people in the Russian Railgun's fandom who hate Touma and see it as the only way to watch the franchise. Ofc, Railgun fandom is a cringe term in itself. The real thing is a Toaru fandom, and it never materialized due to the adaptation. How it feels like hearing Prisma Ilya fandom in place of Fate fandom? I know a Russian who has Touma as his favorite character simply by reading his wiki page (he did watch the anime, but was too lazy to read NT). |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: That's good to hear, because I don't know how it is in the West, but there are a lot of people in the Russian Railgun's fandom who hate Touma and see it as the only way to watch the franchise. Ofc, Railgun fandom is a cringe term in itself. The real thing is a Toaru fandom, and it never materialized due to the adaptation. How it feels like hearing Prisma Ilya fandom in place of Fate fandom? I know a Russian who has Touma as his favorite character simply by reading his wiki page (he did watch the anime, but was too lazy to read NT). Well, it's certain that both shows have a noticeable amount of yuri fans compared to the main franchise, but I've never seen so much negativity towards the main characters from Ilya's fans. To the point where even Touma-loving female characters like Misaki or Kanzaki were recorded as gay. |
|
RobertBobert said: Well, it's certain that both shows have a noticeable amount of yuri fans compared to the main franchise, but I've never seen so much negativity towards the main characters from Ilya's fans. To the point where even Touma-loving female characters like Misaki or Kanzaki were recorded as gay. Tbh the real Toaru fanbase resides mostly in the Toaru raildex subreddit and the Kamachiland discord server. Here you will find straight ships, yuri ships and yaoi ships. Kamichi ship is actually the second most popular ship after Kamikoto in one of the polls XD. |
Laplace_kunJan 13, 2022 12:44 PM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: Well, it's certain that both shows have a noticeable amount of yuri fans compared to the main franchise, but I've never seen so much negativity towards the main characters from Ilya's fans. To the point where even Touma-loving female characters like Misaki or Kanzaki were recorded as gay. Tbh the real Toaru fanbase resides mostly in the Toaru raildex subreddit and the Kamachiland discord server. Here you will find straight ships, yuri ships and yaoi ships. Kamichi ship is actually the second most popular ship after Kamikoto in one of the polls XD. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against ships. It's just that yuri fans in harem franchises are usually a lot more crazy and obsessed for some reason.Think of it like fujoshi in shonen fandom. |
|
RobertBobert said: Don't get me wrong, I'm not against ships. It's just that yuri fans in harem franchises are usually a lot more crazy and obsessed for some reason.Think of it like fujoshi in shonen fandom. Yuri ships are of the least concern in this fandom. Those yuri shippers do tend to be Railgun anime-onlies. Still, in the Railgun fanbase, Kamijo x Misaka is the biggest ship. The number of fanarts of this ship is mindblowing.I In the Railgun manga section, people are hyped when Touma appears. They do sometimes feel that he's taking up too much focus when Misaka is the protag, but complain that they miss him when he doesn't appear for long periods. To be honest, I have heard more about something like Acqua x Knight Leader ship (this is freaking Bara) than that obscure Kanzaki x Index ship you are talking about. I mean there are people who would rage about Saten × Frenda, but we all know what happened to Frenda lmao. Misaka x Kuroko is a total shitship, because Kuroko only harasses her senior with horniness when she's not being a loyal sidekick. Then there's Misamisa (Misaka x Misaki) which has been growing in popularity in the last few Index volumes, but it's treated as a joke and many people are actually tired of it now. Touma is shipped with both male and female characters, and he even has a fan-appreciated "moment" or two with characters like Kuroko in the source material. This all happens because Kamijo faction (canon story term) is often confused with Kamijo harem (canon meme term). The other ships aren't even as half as popular as the most obscure of these ships. Find this level of creativity in your yuri shippers:  So, we need to look at the bigger picture. These small factions are running on fetishes, so of course they'll be loud. An emptier can is always louder. Just ignore and move on. I think even Re:Zero has a plethora of ships, many of them yuri. I do check the subreddit daily XD. |
Laplace_kunJan 13, 2022 1:17 PM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
| @Laplace_kun How about some Junko x Misaki or Saten x Ueharu? I know Kamachi likes to joke about bromance, so I often see people insist that this relationship is romantic (I remember people calling Astral Buddy a "gay spin-off" literally every time Misaki got a nakama moment with another female character). This is one of the reasons why I'm afraid to touch the Railgun, as I'm afraid of all-female franchises with excessive shipping in the community. You will laugh, but in fact the only serious yuri ship in ReZero is RemRam. To the point where even the Isekai Quartet parodied it. Emilia gets shipping from Rem mostly as an orgy with Subaru (although the OVA provided some fuel for that), and the rest of the female characters have too little serious interaction with each other. ReZero gay shipping is basically Subaru + various male characters like Otto or Felix. Tappei knows a lot about female fetishes, but for some reason the main target of nakama always turns out to be Subaru, lol. Although he admitted that he loves strong women who can cope with the problem without the help of men, yes. After all, shipping itself is not a big problem, many big shonen or LN franchises get it, just like I said, yuri shipping in franchises with serious straight ship tease is very intrusive every time, probably due to the saltiness that the girls still choose generic male MC instead of each other (which is even mocking in some fresh romcomcs). |
|
| @RobertBobert That's it. These people are a joke to us because: 1. They don't even understand the franchise they are fans of. 2. Touma is anything but generic. In fact his character served as a prototype for many LN protagonists later, who turned out to be generic. You cannot even self-insert into Touma because he's not based directly on flashy/highly reliable powers or has a comfortable life. 3. Touma's IB has prevented him from getting any love interest that could stay with him. It has been foreshadowed as early as first episode. So there's a big chance he'll have the "no" route. This is even more strengthened by Kamachi's aversion towards romance focus. Well, that's enough ship talk. Index got ignored even in her own forum topic lol. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: @RobertBobert That's it. These people are a joke to us because: 1. They don't even understand the franchise they are fans of. 2. Touma is anything but generic. In fact his character served as a prototype for many LN protagonists later, who turned out to be generic. You cannot even self-insert into Touma because he's not based directly on flashy/highly reliable powers or has a comfortable life. 3. Touma's IB has prevented him from getting any love interest that could stay with him. It has been foreshadowed as early as first episode. So there's a big chance he'll have the "no" route. This is even more strengthened by Kamachi's aversion towards romance focus. Well, that's enough ship talk. Index got ignored even in her own forum topic lol. So, to sum things up, Touma's harem is like Vegas, everyone who goes there stays there? |
|
RobertBobert said: So, to sum things up, Touma's harem is like Vegas, everyone who goes there stays there? Like I said, Touma's harem is a "canon meme". Will you call Steins; Gate a harem because all girls (include Ruka) are somehow attracted to mc (romantically or not)? Index said that Imagine Breaker breaks the red string of fate, meaning Touma might meet many people but in most cases wouldn't be able to develop a deeper relationship with them. Himegami said his life is like a VN protagonist. Tsuchimikado remarked that he is the bringer of the Kami-yan disease - the ability to gather girls around him out of nowhere. The Index special made fun of this, showing a blushing Accelerator on touching Touma. This is what it appears like when it's viewed from the perspective of others. In the LN, there was a moment of him carrying a pregnant woman (to bring to the hospital), and others started questioning his tastes. The bigger truth is him inadvertently forming a "faction" (refer to Etzali's quote back in season 1). And he earned them through life threatening situations. If we want to view it more colloquially, he has a sizeable male fanclub (which also has tsunderes) and a harem of size exceeding 10000. But to speak the truth, the true romantic love interests are sparse in number and their chances are more feeble than not. Touma is aware of the connections he has made and cherishes them, but feels guilty of burdening them with his own troubles. Eg., In Railgun S, he said he's glad to have Misaka as an ally. In reality he doesn't feel like having her as a love interest yet. When you sleep in a bathtub and face life threatening situations every week, you don't feel like you are suited for romance. You will also have self-esteem issues regarding topics of love. So, you'd rather want people to be allies, connections or just a contingency plan during huge crisis. So Touma uses Misaka's help near the end of Index II. This faction is here to stay, because he changed most of their lives towards better directions, even if they were villains who personally hurt him. And this might be one of Aleister's plans, because he has Touma and Accelerator as his biggest "hitmen" for carrying out operations. By the way, Touma's type of girl is a dorm manager onee-san and the closest candidate in that category is Orsola Aquinas XD. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: So, to sum things up, Touma's harem is like Vegas, everyone who goes there stays there? Like I said, Touma's harem is a "canon meme". Will you call Steins; Gate a harem because all girls (include Ruka) are somehow attracted to mc (romantically or not)? Index said that Imagine Breaker breaks the red string of fate, meaning Touma might meet many people but in most cases wouldn't be able to develop a deeper relationship with them. Himegami said his life is like a VN protagonist. Tsuchimikado remarked that he is the bringer of the Kami-yan disease - the ability to gather girls around him out of nowhere. The Index special made fun of this, showing a blushing Accelerator on touching Touma. This is what it appears like when it's viewed from the perspective of others. In the LN, there was a moment of him carrying a pregnant woman (to bring to the hospital), and others started questioning his tastes. The bigger truth is him inadvertently forming a "faction" (refer to Etzali's quote back in season 1). And he earned them through life threatening situations. If we want to view it more colloquially, he has a sizeable male fanclub (which also has tsunderes) and a harem of size exceeding 10000. But to speak the truth, the true romantic love interests are sparse in number and their chances are more feeble than not. Touma is aware of the connections he has made and cherishes them, but feels guilty of burdening them with his own troubles. Eg., In Railgun S, he said he's glad to have Misaka as an ally. In reality he doesn't feel like having her as a love interest yet. When you sleep in a bathtub and face life threatening situations every week, you don't feel like you are suited for romance. You will also have self-esteem issues regarding topics of love. So, you'd rather want people to be allies, connections or just a contingency plan during huge crisis. So Touma uses Misaka's help near the end of Index II. This faction is here to stay, because he changed most of their lives towards better directions, even if they were villains who personally hurt him. And this might be one of Aleister's plans, because he has Touma and Accelerator as his biggest "hitmen" for carrying out operations. By the way, Touma's type of girl is a dorm manager onee-san and the closest candidate in that category is Orsola Aquinas XD. If all of this is true, then it turns out that Index is much better suited for the "I can't write girls other than love interests" meme than SAO, lol. But anyway, I'm glad that an MC can uselessly have a harem including Misaka and stay out of all the shipping speculation that any BFFs in the franchise are lesbians. Orsola Aquinas? Well, after the second season, she seems a little weird to me, but her reactions in the ship arc (no pun intended) show that she can still be serious when needed. Especially when she made it clear to Touma that his hand would undress the girls when trying to remove the spells on their clothes. |
|
RobertBobert said: If all of this is true, then it turns out that Index is much better suited for the "I can't write girls other than love interests" meme than SAO, lol. But anyway, I'm glad that an MC can uselessly have a harem including Misaka and stay out of all the shipping speculation that any BFFs in the franchise are lesbians. Orsola Aquinas? Well, after the second season, she seems a little weird to me, but her reactions in the ship arc (no pun intended) show that she can still be serious when needed. Especially when she made it clear to Touma that his hand would undress the girls when trying to remove the spells on their clothes. In the Toaru fandom it's more like "Just let my boy Touma be with someone who can make him happy ". Touma's "harem" is full of independent women who can actually be fine without totally depending over him, but they won't hesitate to help him out when he will ask for help. That's the beauty of it. This will be highlighted in NT, where they will actually introduce a character . Orsola is weird, that's right. She's extremely saintly and accomplished, but a freakin' airhead. She's just there to annoy Sherry in the Anglican Library XD. Edit: I can name at least 50 girls who are not love interests, wdym |
Laplace_kunJan 13, 2022 3:45 PM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: If all of this is true, then it turns out that Index is much better suited for the "I can't write girls other than love interests" meme than SAO, lol. But anyway, I'm glad that an MC can uselessly have a harem including Misaka and stay out of all the shipping speculation that any BFFs in the franchise are lesbians. Orsola Aquinas? Well, after the second season, she seems a little weird to me, but her reactions in the ship arc (no pun intended) show that she can still be serious when needed. Especially when she made it clear to Touma that his hand would undress the girls when trying to remove the spells on their clothes. In the Toaru fandom it's more like "Just let my boy Touma be with someone who can make him happy ". Touma's "harem" is full of independent women who can actually be fine without totally depending over him, but they won't hesitate to help him out when he will ask for help. That's the beauty of it. This will be highlighted in NT, where they will actually introduce a character . Orsola is weird, that's right. She's extremely saintly and accomplished, but a freakin' airhead. She's just there to annoy Sherry in the Anglican Library XD. Are you talking about the blonde version of Touma? Well, I don't need much, just to have Misaka next to Touma and Index as his surrogate sister. Well, maybe also Kanzaki and his two female classmates lol. |
|
This is Touman: This is Sherry: They look same, huh? I guess if Touma didn't use the Academy City hair gel to make his hair spiky, he might look like her(?) I appreciate that you ship Kanzaki and Touma. Tsuchimikado will be so happy. But he has to fight the Misaka wingwomen, Saten and Uiharu! |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: This is Touman: This is Sherry: They look same, huh? I guess if Touma didn't use the Academy City hair gel to make his hair spiky, he might look like her(?) I appreciate that you ship Kanzaki and Touma. Tsuchimikado will be so happy. But he has to fight the Misaka wingwomen, Saten and Uiharu! I was referring to that guy without superpowers who is supposed to be the third protagonist next season. Speaking of sequels, how do you like Accelerator's manga? I like his interaction with New Order, but you said that their spin off is mediocre. Well, if you refer to Kuroko's paranoia about "monkey guy", she's probably the biggest Touma x Mikoto shipper in the show lol. |
|
RobertBobert said: I was referring to that guy without superpowers who is supposed to be the third protagonist next season. Oh, were you talking about the NT character I was mentioning? No it's not Hama. Hama does have a girl circle though. So does Accelerator. Speaking of sequels, how do you like Accelerator's manga? I like his interaction with New Order, but you said that their spin off is mediocre. I also like his interaction with Last Order but the manga is just bad. Especially the second arc is so trash they stopped the manga. Better read Accelerator Idol manga. Or simply read Index novels including NT. In terms of spin-offs imo, Railgun (Sisters+Daihasei) > Astral Buddy > Dark Matter > Railgun (other arcs) >> Accelerator I am yet to start reading Mental Out. Well, if you refer to Kuroko's paranoia about "monkey guy", she's probably the biggest Touma x Mikoto shipper in the show lol. That's quite the theory XD, but Railgun T shows otherwise. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: I was referring to that guy without superpowers who is supposed to be the third protagonist next season. Oh, were you talking about the NT character I was mentioning? No it's not Hama. Hama does have a girl circle though. So does Accelerator. Speaking of sequels, how do you like Accelerator's manga? I like his interaction with New Order, but you said that their spin off is mediocre. I also like his interaction with Last Order but the manga is just bad. Especially the second arc is so trash they stopped the manga. Better read Accelerator Idol manga. Or simply read Index novels including NT. In terms of spin-offs imo, Railgun (Sisters+Daihasei) > Astral Buddy > Dark Matter > Railgun (other arcs) >> Accelerator I am yet to start reading Mental Out. Well, if you refer to Kuroko's paranoia about "monkey guy", she's probably the biggest Touma x Mikoto shipper in the show lol. That's quite the theory XD, but Railgun T shows otherwise. But then why did they put so much real effort into making and promoting the anime adaptation? So what is your opinion on Astral Buddy? Is this a blatant yuri bait or just a nakama spin-off of the Railgun? |
|
RobertBobert said: But then why did they put so much real effort into making and promoting the anime adaptation? So what is your opinion on Astral Buddy? Is this a blatant yuri bait or just a nakama spin-off of the Railgun? Well its worth the experiment for Accelerator fans. Still as I said, adapting a manga is a hell lotta easier. To be honest they didn't invest much. Accelerator anime just didn't have the unintentional production issues behind Index III. It does have some very bad animation frames though. Warning: Minor Astral Buddy spoilers Astral Buddy has some of the best pairings: Like Junko and Kuroko It has actually encouraged the Junko x Gunha ship. So yuribait is not really it's prime target. Tokiwadai girls are kinda confined so they tend to have more girl-to-girl moments. Of course, the covers will have Misaki×Junko, mostly because Misaki is kind of an alpha, manipulative girl. Junko is her senior, but still timid. Misaki even throws a horny Kuroko off by this "dominating" behavior. The only girl who Misaki cannot/will not troll is Seria Kumokawa (Touma's senpai). Astral Buddy is even more enjoyable when you read upto NT11 and Biohacker Arc. Adapting it before Railgun T doesn't make sense. The art is beautiful and the Astral Buddy artist often blesses us with good fanarts. It's too bad Astral Buddy ended so quickly, it was so much better than the current state of the Railgun manga. |
Laplace_kunJan 14, 2022 1:08 AM
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: But then why did they put so much real effort into making and promoting the anime adaptation? So what is your opinion on Astral Buddy? Is this a blatant yuri bait or just a nakama spin-off of the Railgun? Well its worth the experiment for Accelerator fans. Still as I said, adapting a manga is a hell lotta easier. To be honest they didn't invest much. Accelerator anime just didn't have the unintentional production issues behind Index III. It does have some very bad animation frames though. Warning: Minor Astral Buddy spoilers Astral Buddy has some of the best pairings: Like Junko and Kuroko It has actually encouraged the Junko x Gunha ship. So yuribait is not really it's prime target. Tokiwadai girls are kinda confined so they tend to have more girl-to-girl moments. Of course, the covers will have Misaki×Junko, mostly because Misaki is kind of an alpha, manipulative girl. Junko is her senior, but still timid. Misaki even throws a horny Kuroko off by this "dominating" behavior. The only girl who Misaki cannot/will not troll is Seria Kumokawa (Touma's senpai). Astral Buddy is even more enjoyable when you read upto NT11 and Biohacker Arc. Adapting it before Railgun T doesn't make sense. The art is beautiful and the Astral Buddy artist often blesses us with good fanarts. It's too bad Astral Buddy ended so quickly, it was so much better than the current state of the Railgun manga. Gunha? Are you saying that he is exactly who is meant to be Junko's love interest? I know Misaki is in Touma's harem, but I thought this guy had another girl target. Or am I wrong... So, do you think that yuri bait is just an indirect consequence of the fact that this is an all-female spin-off about girl-to-girl interaction? |
|
RobertBobert said: Gunha? Are you saying that he is exactly who is meant to be Junko's love interest? I know Misaki is in Touma's harem, but I thought this guy had another girl target. Or am I wrong... So, do you think that yuri bait is just an indirect consequence of the fact that this is an all-female spin-off about girl-to-girl interaction? I repeat, except Touma x (Someone), Hamazura X Takitsubo and a few others there are no relationships that are blossoming in Toaru. Junko and Gunha just have some good moments in the manga which encouraged the fans to ship them. It's like how Accelerator and Saten interaction in the Toaru:If game led people to ship them. Also, thanks very much for the FR :D |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
| what the heck is going on here |
|
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: Gunha? Are you saying that he is exactly who is meant to be Junko's love interest? I know Misaki is in Touma's harem, but I thought this guy had another girl target. Or am I wrong... So, do you think that yuri bait is just an indirect consequence of the fact that this is an all-female spin-off about girl-to-girl interaction? I repeat, except Touma x (Someone), Hamazura X Takitsubo and a few others there are no relationships that are blossoming in Toaru. Junko and Gunha just have some good moments in the manga which encouraged the fans to ship them. It's like how Accelerator and Saten interaction in the Toaru:If game led people to ship them. Also, thanks very much for the FR :D Well, I haven't seen him "in action" yet, so he just seemed like a "cooler" version of Touma to me. But I was really interested to see him in Railgun because the manga has such a reputation for being an all-female ball, you know. So saying that they have some moments, you even interested me even more, lol. No problem, I like to discuss shows I'm interested in with knowledgeable people. |
|
RobertBobert said: Well, I haven't seen him "in action" yet, so he just seemed like a "cooler" version of Touma to me. But I was really interested to see him in Railgun because the manga has such a reputation for being an all-female ball, you know. So saying that they have some moments, you even interested me even more, lol. No problem, I like to discuss shows I'm interested in with knowledgeable people. Gunha is just chuuni version of Touma. Also Touma is freakin' cool, bring me another guy who can deal with a gun user using hot coffee or punch an Archangel using a continent. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: Well, I haven't seen him "in action" yet, so he just seemed like a "cooler" version of Touma to me. But I was really interested to see him in Railgun because the manga has such a reputation for being an all-female ball, you know. So saying that they have some moments, you even interested me even more, lol. No problem, I like to discuss shows I'm interested in with knowledgeable people. Gunha is just chuuni version of Touma. Also Touma is freakin' cool, bring me another guy who can deal with a gun user using hot coffee or punch an Archangel using a continent. So, can I hope for this ship or just enjoy his appearance in the show for the moment ? Now I'm at the point where Touma returned to Japan after a trip to Italy. |
|
RobertBobert said: So, can I hope for this ship or just enjoy his appearance in the show for the moment ? Now I'm at the point where Touma returned to Japan after a trip to Italy. Shet, I actually thought you watched all of these, at least upto Index III. Hopefully I haven't spoiled much. Ship as much as you like. I mean this is one of the popular ones. Well before this point, Touma used cement to make short work of a guy who can demolish skyscrapers using some stone slab; and fought Accelerator while being severely weakened by Misaka's lightening, so still cool. And remember, this is a guy whose personality has been erased due to memory loss and still manages to fool everyone that he's the original Touma. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
Laplace_kun said: RobertBobert said: So, can I hope for this ship or just enjoy his appearance in the show for the moment ? Now I'm at the point where Touma returned to Japan after a trip to Italy. Shet, I actually thought you watched all of these, at least upto Index III. Hopefully I haven't spoiled much. Ship as much as you like. I mean this is one of the popular ones. Well before this point, Touma used cement to make short work of a guy who can demolish skyscrapers using some stone slab; and fought Accelerator while being severely weakened by Misaka's lightening, so still cool. And remember, this is a guy whose personality has been erased due to memory loss and still manages to fool everyone that he's the original Touma. I didn't see much spoilers, probably because I've already read something about the plot. In any case, I plan to watch Railgun after Accelerator as I was afraid that it might throw off the atmosphere for me. Well, I don't know how canonical this is, but I'd rather see that kind of ship, as I'm usually very jealous of the MC's harem. I have no complaints about Touma, he is my favorite male character in the series. I don't usually like too much stock male MC, but the first season and a half gave him enough charisma. |
|
| [quote=Laplace_kun message=65452399] But kamachi forgot Vampires and Himegami |
BornToFightJan 14, 2022 9:40 PM
 |
| [quote=BornToFight message=65465539] Laplace_kun said: But kamachi forgot Vampires and Himegami He didn't forget he simply can't integrate these to the plot right now. Deep Blood was written in 17 days and Kamachi even made a joke in OT 6 regarding how Touma couldn't see Himegami because of bad sunlight or something. She does return in Daihasei, only to become motivation fodder. In short, he doesn't feel like she's a topic he can explore on further right now. Remember in NT 10 afterword, he said he has no plans for the Kaguya character who is nevertheless interesting? They don't even have art for her. Also Touma's cousin is called "Otohime" (priestess of the dragon) and he doesn't touch on her yet... But look, OT 15 foreshadowed Windowless Building is a There are many other instances. I'd say if Kamachi is really planning on writing 100 volumes, we shouldn't be giving up on him using old plot points. The entire timeline has barely moved by 6 months, so things aren't that neglected in-universe. |
| "All truth is meaningless. In the end, 'meaning' comes from the mind of each individual human. Even when there is a single truth, it can mean different things to different individuals. The truth has no meaning in itself!" - Erika Furudo |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Toaru Majutsu no Index III Episode 6 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Nov 9, 2018 |
255 |
by whitebeartigtig
»»
Jul 6, 1:28 PM |
|
Poll: » Toaru Majutsu no Index III Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Stark700 - Nov 2, 2018 |
196 |
by whitebeartigtig
»»
Jul 6, 12:57 PM |
|
Poll: » Toaru Majutsu no Index III Episode 22 DiscussionStark700 - Mar 8, 2019 |
43 |
by wildhood
»»
Jun 1, 7:17 AM |
|
Poll: » Toaru Majutsu no Index III Episode 26 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Apr 5, 2019 |
359 |
by Homura24
»»
May 13, 8:22 AM |
|
Poll: » Toaru Majutsu no Index III Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Stark700 - Oct 26, 2018 |
175 |
by Homura24
»»
Apr 15, 8:57 AM |