Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
| First of all, let me say that I think that the Season 1 was objectively the best fiction this genre can offer and it was very entertaining. I was truly hyped for Season 2, but when I finally found time to watch it, I was very disappointed. Don't get me wrong. I am not going to strictly compare S1 and S2. Even if evaluated alone, S2 fails to fulfill the qualities of the kind of fantasy-fiction S1 started to build. To itemize my complaints: 1 - It lost the realism. I hate that the S2 could not utilize the political-fantasy world the S1 created. 2 - It got too metaphysical. I don't know if I have to explain why this is a bad thing. Shortly, if a story goes in this direction it loses relatability and goes into ass pull territory. 3 - It got too emotional. While this is normally not a bad thing, with S2 the episodes were stretched and it got boring very quickly. Part 2 was basically a series of trips to the mental spaces of various characters. I wish the presentation was better. 4 - Character's motivations got very complicated. Specifically the motivations of Roswaal, Betty, Ryuzu and Ram did not make any sense to me and Garfiel's motivation didn't matter. 5 - Dialogues stopped making any sense. As a work based on a LN and mostly relies on words, I think this is the biggest loss of Re:Zero. Thankfully the witty dialogue was still there and they kept me from sleeping, but they were only the comedic ones and not the dialogue that drove the story forward. 6 - It got very unpredictable. I think it should have followed the formulaic story the S1 scratched the surface of. Subaru is the Apostle of Greed and Archbishop of Pride, has the mark of Sloth and protection of WoE. There are seven Witches of sin, and apparently other witches. But in the end none of this matters as there is no symbolism related to these. They are just names without any deep meaning. Less predictability means less anticipation. And I don't care about all the "plot twists" it introduces anymore. These are not my only complaints. If I had to nitpick, I could talk about some plot-holes and inconsistencies. But these are the general points I think the following seasons should fix. Of course S2 had some good qualities like the excellent production value and some good episodes like Subaru's past (the best episode of the whole show imo). In the end, I think I would watch any anime with this cast of characters no matter how stupid it is. I just wish the S2 had a better story so that I could call it the best anime I ever watched without any regrets. |
OonokamiJun 27, 2021 11:49 AM
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Oonokami said: First of all, let me say that I think that the Season 1 was objectively the best fiction this genre can offer and it was very entertaining. I was truly hyped for Season 2, but when I finally found time to watch it, I was very disappointed. Don't get me wrong. I am not going to strictly compare S1 and S2. Even if evaluated alone, S2 fails to fulfill the qualities of the kind of fantasy-fiction S1 started to build. To itemize my complaints: 1 - It lost the realism. I hate that the S2 could not utilize the political-fantasy world the S1 created. 2 - It got too metaphysical. I don't know if I have to explain why this is a bad thing. Shortly, if a story goes in this direction it loses relatability and goes into asspull territory. 3 - It got too emotional. While this is normally not a bad thing, with S2 the episodes were stretched and it got boring very quickly. Part 2 was basically a series of trips to the mental spaces of various characters. I wish the representation was better. 4 - Character's motivations got very complicated. Specifically the motivations of Roswaal, Betty, Ryuzu and Ram did not make any sense to me and Garfiel's motivation didn't matter. 5 - Dialogues stopped making any sense. As a work based on a LN and mostly relies on words, I think this is the biggest loss of Re:Zero. Thankfully the witty dialogue was still there and they kept me from sleeping, but they were only the comedic ones and not the dialogue that drove the story forward. 6 - It got very unpredictable. I think it should have followed the formulaic story the S1 scratched the surface of. Subaru is the Apostle of Greed and Archbishop of Pride, has the mark of Sloth and protection of WoE. There are seven Witches of sin, and apparently other witches. But in the end none of this matters as there is no symbolism related to these. They are just names without any deep meaning. Less predictability means less anticipation. And I don't care about all the "plot twists" it introduces anymore. These are not my only complaints. If I had to nitpick, I could talk about some plot-holes and inconsistencies. But these are the general points I think the following seasons should fix. Of course S2 had some good qualities like the excellent production value and some good episodes like Subaru's past (the best episode of the whole show imo). In the end, I think I would watch any anime with this cast of characters no matter how stupid it is. I just wish the S2 had a better story so that I could call it the best anime I ever watched without any regrets. I'd agree that series 1 was the more distinct product(espically the director's cut) but I'd have to disagree with the idea it's 'objectively' worse, the plot has always been more character focused then story focused, as such exploring the mind sets of our cast is the logical progression, there's nothing objectively wrong about that, in fact it would make less sense if it didn't. I'd actually also agree that the witches are anti-climatic, for one we're under the impression they where all dead but they seem to, atleast metaphysically, be doing just fine😅. With that said I think they're something the story needs more time to expand on and that we're just seeing their first moves on the theoretical chess board. Furthermore, greed, the one we properly meet, very much so embodied the symbolism of her name, no question about it. As for the motivations, there vague during the story by obvious design but by the end they all seem pretty clear to me and very interesting. Roswalds complete lack of faith in humanitys ability to change, protect and act selflessly is a classic villian trait, Beatrice's lonlyness has always been hinted at and we already knew Ram motives(espically with Rem out of the picture), so not sure what your problem is here. So ya for some of it I agree it could be tighter but seeing as we are now deeper into the story, it seems only logical series two would be forced to do alot of the leg work for later arcs and most of its weaknesses will eventually seem short lived and a nessarcery evil in order to tell even better stories later. Hope that helps😎👍. |
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| It was better for me than season 1 cause we got to know more about everyone's past and how much they have suffered. Season 1 did had the political aspect which I miss this season but I enjoyed the mystery part in this season more. Emilia became my favourite female character this season subaru was already best mc for me. I hope season 3 won't disappoint you cause it brings back its political aspect. I don't think this season had any plotholes and subaru isn't archbishop of pride 🤦 |
| You are amazing 『Natsuki Subaru』 |
| 1. It didn't lose anything. The season is just focused on something else. 2. I don't get it. 3-4. Oh look, the realistic character psychology. I think it lost the realism? 6. That's the best thing. Subaru Archbishop of Pride? Because the crazy character assumed that by his explained reason to smell like a Witch? The symbolism is everywhere, especially to astronomy and the Witches (Daphne marking her creations wasn't even noticeable in light novel. Did you notice this? Probably not, as it looks like.) At the end you didn't enjoy S2 as much as you wished to, and that's fine. The arc itself has no plot-holes, but in the anime adaptation some things might be not clear. Generally I see a lot of people realized on S2 it's a mystery/psychology series. You're gonna have a problem watching potential S4 then, when you're starting to understand what was happening at the very end. |
Sphiffi said: you don't realise how big role pandora and Regulus are gonna play and return by death became useless? It was the reason why he won the bet with roswaal cause he collected every information from every loops. Hector and Ryuzu have way more importance you could imagine. Long story short you missed the point of this seasonI’m with you. I was super disappointed. It felt trapped in one place and the story never really felt like it was progressing. Also return by death became sort of useless, as it never felt like it actually helped him get passed anything like it did in the first season. They gave us a problem that never needed to be there and didn’t progress the overarching story of Re:zero in any way. They introduced new characters and spent episodes covering their backstory instead of focusing on the characters they already had. |
| You are amazing 『Natsuki Subaru』 |
| When people going to understand story is the characters? Every criticism you make is pointless and subjective. Season 2 is better than Season 1. |
OkeanixJun 27, 2021 10:06 AM
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Shaura said: reading such reviews makes me feel pity for these people who wouldn't be able to enjoy best Re Zero arc when it gets adapted.1. It didn't lose anything. The season is just focused on something else. 2. I don't get it. 3-4. Oh look, the realistic character psychology. I think it lost the realism? 6. That's the best thing. Subaru Archbishop of Pride? Because the crazy character assumed that by his explained reason to smell like a Witch? The symbolism is everywhere, especially to astronomy and the Witches (Daphne marking her creations wasn't even noticeable in light novel. Did you notice this? Probably not, as it looks like.) At the end you didn't enjoy S2 as much as you wished to, and that's fine. The arc itself has no plot-holes, but in the anime adaptation some things might be not clear. Generally I see a lot of people realized on S2 it's a mystery/psychology series. You're gonna have a problem watching potential S4 then, when you're starting to understand what was happening at the very end. |
| You are amazing 『Natsuki Subaru』 |
xSuperDuperEvan said: Season 2 just simply requires a lot more deep thinking than season 1. Not saying season 1 had a mindless plot, but it was much simpler to grasp without having to think much about it. I personally am a fan of anime’s that provoke a lot of thought, which is why I personally enjoyed season 2 more, after every episode I would have to sit and think about what ACTUALLY happened for like half an hour. Season 2 feels like it is trapped in one place because it is, and so are the cast. The audience are trapped with them. Where as season 1 covered multiple arcs, this season only covered one from the LN, the longest one, hence the slow progression. Furthermore, I don’t think most problems in anime are “needed “ most problems are meant to be inconveniences. They got intentionally misled by Roswaal, and thus we get season 2 being trapped in the sanctuary. I found season 1 good, but I found season 2 to be far more rewarding when all was said and done. I don't see often comments when I could have just replied "+1", but +1. |
| I actually agree with u especially on the 3rd point. Season 2 was too much focused on waifu exploration. Based on rem being one of the most favorite character in the site, I kind of think most people were looking for that part of re zero which they got sufficiently in season 2. But personally i was looking more for the mystery and thrill, season 2 just couldnt give that as much as season 1. |
  Click for a anime mashup! Still not gone bandwagon u, keep crying. Here u are welcome to CRINGE at my EXISTENCE |
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| I personally disagree. Problems with the dialogue and pacing with the story, SOLELY in the anime adaptation, are sort of fair. But to me, the dialogue feels realistic in a sense. For a very brief example, people were complaining about Reason to Believe, but I feel like if you were in Subaru and Emilia's circumstances, it'd also be impossible to have a rational conversation. Screaming, fighting, and repeating your words make perfect sense in that situation, and the story still moves forward, which is obvious since it ends with their first kiss (not counting Taste of Death lmao). And though the episodes were longer, I personally was never bored and was constantly engaged, but again that's just my personal opinion. With the point you made about character motivations, I'll admit it's convoluted, but they do make perfect sense. That's part of the appeal. It's sort of a mystery that will gradually get unfolded as the story moves forward. For example, I'll explain Roswaals, but it will contain some spoilers. The witches of sin, the archbishops, Pandora, Hector, and ESPECIALLY Ryuzu all play a huge part in future seasons, none of this is meaningless. What do you mean no symbolism? Hell, even the names of the characters connect to the theme of astronomy. For example, Regulus and Subaru are both named after stars. There's so many more characters like that which will later be revealed, and it's actually an important plot point. Everything starts to make more sense as the story progresses, and it's important to note that this is a psychological series. It's heavy on it's character psychology, and realistic in that sense. It has tons of mystery, so things may seem like plotholes, but in reality they're just unanswered questions. It's important to note that the story is just getting started. Season 2 was arc 4 of the story, and the author confirmed 11 arcs. Each arc so far should take about a season, so there's so much more content left. |
| Interesting. For me personally I actually prefer season 2 over season 1 by a long shot (pun intended). Season 1 is amazing and I love it, but season 2 got me so much more invested in the characters and the story. I actually really appreciated the "emotional" stuff you mentioned. There are times I feel like the main thing going for season 1 is the horror, the concept, and the mystery of it all. That's not a bad thing as it worked, but season 2 added so much more depth to everything in my opinion, while still maintaining the absolutely terrifying tone of the first season. Also, season 2 has some of my favorite voice acting of all time. |
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momentie said: As for the motivations, there vague during the story by obvious design but by the end they all seem pretty clear to me and very interesting. Roswalds complete lack of faith in humanitys ability to change, protect and act selflessly is a classic villian trait, Beatrice's lonlyness has always been hinted at and we already knew Ram motives(espically with Rem out of the picture), so not sure what your problem is here. So ya for some of it I agree it could be tighter but seeing as we are now deeper into the story, it seems only logical series two would be forced to do alot of the leg work for later arcs and most of its weaknesses will eventually seem short lived and a nessarcery evil in order to tell even better stories later. Hope that helps😎👍. I respect your opinion. It is refreshing to see some comments without underhandedly insulting the opposing opinions. When I say complex, I don't mean I don't get it. I just don't get the reason it is so complex. The characters' motivations are clear to me. In fact they can be summarized in 1 sentence as you did. But they are obfuscated with meaningless dialogue to fake deepness. If this was another anime I would say it is pretentious. But I don't want to deprecate Re:Zero with that word. I would say the payoff did not justify the build-up. I believe the S3 can be a lot better. That is why I created this post. It is just that people keep saying S1 was the introduction, S2 and forwards is the real deal. While I think the story should be more like S1. If S2 was something like intermission (it did really look like a side-story or movie plot tbh) and future seasons will be more like Re:Zero I used to know, that is fine with me. To some other commenters, nobody here needs to hear how smart you are. That does not even make you look smart to be honest. |
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| You’ll get more of your political relations in season 3, Subaru isn’t the archbishop of pride, you’ll get your action scenes and less dialogue |
| Completely off-topic, but your forum avatar is hilarious. Made me chuckle a bit. |
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| I'm no profound anime reviewer. All I know is for season 1 I couldn't put it down and it left me wanting more. Season 2 I had to force myself to finish. |
My taste is trash. So is yours. |
Oonokami said: momentie said: As for the motivations, there vague during the story by obvious design but by the end they all seem pretty clear to me and very interesting. Roswalds complete lack of faith in humanitys ability to change, protect and act selflessly is a classic villian trait, Beatrice's lonlyness has always been hinted at and we already knew Ram motives(espically with Rem out of the picture), so not sure what your problem is here. So ya for some of it I agree it could be tighter but seeing as we are now deeper into the story, it seems only logical series two would be forced to do alot of the leg work for later arcs and most of its weaknesses will eventually seem short lived and a nessarcery evil in order to tell even better stories later. Hope that helps😎👍. I respect your opinion. It is refreshing to see some comments without underhandedly insulting the opposing opinions. When I say complex, I don't mean I don't get it. I just don't get the reason it is so complex. The characters' motivations are clear to me. In fact they can be summarized in 1 sentence as you did. But they are obfuscated with meaningless dialogue to fake deepness. If this was another anime I would say it is pretentious. But I don't want to deprecate Re:Zero with that word. I would say the payoff did not justify the build-up. I believe the S3 can be a lot better. That is why I created this post. It is just that people keep saying S1 was the introduction, S2 and forwards is the real deal. While I think the story should be more like S1. If S2 was something like intermission (it did really look like a side-story or movie plot tbh) and future seasons will be more like Re:Zero I used to know, that is fine with me. To some other commenters, nobody here needs to hear how smart you are. That does not even make you look smart to be honest. Yea I can totally understand that and I'm always happy to hear alternate perspectives 😎. I definitely agree that S2 is weaker, I feel it being split on two halfs greatly damages the pacing and your probably rigth that there a little bit to much introspection and dream world shenanigans at times. For me factoring in the OST, voice acting,visuals and direction it was an 8.5 but I can see others going lower. I'd agree again that if anything I'd say we're still on a sort of long prologue(50ep+ 2 long ovas is a bit much for a prologe but I digress). So I guess while I don't agree with all of your sentiment, I certainly think it could of been somewhat stronger in places, maybe a 18 ep season would of forced them to be more ecconomic with pacing but who knows. Anyhow hopefully your correct and we can all come together to enjoy S3 as a combination of the good of S1 and S2 combined😁👍 |
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miscshade said: You lost me when you said objectively. I can’t take your argument seriously if you’re going to use “objectively” unironically like that. As someone who does not have cult like attachment to any anime or character, someone who has seen lots of anime and someone who tries to get rid of any bias that can distort the opinion, I think I have the right to use the word "objectively". Besides I used that word to compare Re:Zero to other anime. We are discussing the quality of Season 2 here. What is your issue? |
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| I didn't enjoy season 2 at all. Only my attachment to the characters from the previous installment prevented me from rating it even lower than 6/10. It's so tedious and boring, it ruins any fun to be had in re-watching the first season. The main problem is that the entire sanctuary arc is too thin on events for 25 episodes so it's bloated with repetitive and circular dialog... just to fill time. |
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| Even though i enjoyed season 2/arc 4 a lot more and believe it's better i'm gonna play devil's advocate and say that the reason some people didn't enjoy season 2 as much as the first is because it works better in a novel format than in anime form. It's a very dialogue heavy arc and it's the longest one so far (130 chapters), while the following arcs have 81 and 90 chapters respectively. But even so season 2 has so far been rated higher than the first in every site that i've seen, so the majority of people that have seen it do think it's better. If they don't fuck up the animation and the directing next season/arc is gonna break the internet to the amount that demon slayer and jujutsu kaisen did. |
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16CharsIsTooShor said: So on why you maybe shouldn't use the word "objectively", the sentence is literally an oxymoron. You can't have an objective personal opinion - that's by definition the opposite of what objective means. Even if you try, it's impossible to be completely objective. If it was objective then there wouldn't be people in the thread with different opinions. And by claiming it to be objective your saying that everyone who thinks differently is wrong, and that's now how art works. This is the first definition that came up when I googled "objective opinion": When someone decides "objectively", they're just thinking about the facts, not their own feelings. When you ask for an "objective opinion", you want to hear the opinion of someone who doesn't already have strong feelings about a subject, and who won't gain or lose anything because of the decision. And I mean that when I use the phrase "to think objectively". I am not talking about facts, but my thoughts without any bias. I didn't say anyone who likes S2 is wrong or anything like that. Maybe you don't know but there was a cult of haters when Re:Zero first came out, that would just give it 0 score without any basis. Also there are people that don't like S1 because it focuses on Rem, or S2 because it focuses on Emilia. I felt the need to use the word "objectively" to indicate I am not one of them. 16CharsIsTooShor said: S2 just shifted the focus to 'character-building', focusing on character development instead. As to which one is more appealing, that's the opinion of the viewer. I am a big fan of character driven stories, introspection, monologues and dialogues. I just think S2 could not do it well. The author could have blended character arcs with another story in a well paced way. But he chose to introduce a magical & metaphysical setting that can show characters' past and used it to show the past of all important characters in one season. There was a lot of forced emotional scenes and as others have stated most of the time it felt "cheesy". I did not like the "let's get everyone's past out of the way" attitude of the author. This season only solved the internal conflicts of the characters, which were invisible from the beginning. And I will dare to say, it did not matter at all if those conflicts existed or not. I believe anything that does not contribute to making the story better is not needed in any kind of fiction. S2 did not drive the story forward in any tangible way, so I would not call it "character driven". |
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Oonokami said: And I mean that when I use the phrase "to think objectively". I am not talking about facts, but my thoughts without any bias This is fundamentally impossible for any human. We all have biases based on thousands of different things. I understand what you are saying here though: but there was a cult of haters when Re:Zero first came out, that would just give it 0 score without any basis. Also there are people that don't like S1 because it focuses on Rem, or S2 because it focuses on Emilia. I felt the need to use the word "objectively" to indicate I am not one of them. This makes a lot more sense. So you have bias towards those two groups of people's method of rating and you have your own method, separate from their "incorrect" method. |
BorderlineSchizoJun 27, 2021 4:18 PM
My taste is trash. So is yours. |
Oonokami said: I am a big fan of character driven stories, introspection, monologues and dialogues. I just think S2 could not do it well. The author could have blended character arcs with another story in a well paced way. But he chose to introduce a magical & metaphysical setting that can show characters' past and used it to show the past of all important characters in one season. There was a lot of forced emotional scenes and as others have stated most of the time it felt "cheesy". I did not like the "let's get everyone's past out of the way" attitude of the author. This season only solved the internal conflicts of the characters, which were invisible from the beginning. And I will dare to say, it did not matter at all if those conflicts existed or not. I believe anything that does not contribute to making the story better is not needed in any kind of fiction. S2 did not drive the story forward in any tangible way, so I would not call it "character driven". One of the main developments in this arc was to strengthen the bond of the Emilia Faction as a group not only to help one another but also for the Royal Selection. Before this Arc the entire Emilia Faction was all over the place and has no clear teamwork or unity like the other Candidate Factions do. After this arc, not only has the Emilia Faction grown considerably, now with the aid of the Sanctuary people but also learned to work together in unity to achieve a common goal. Roswaal has been manipulating everything from the beginning but now he fully supports the Faction now without the tome that he has used to guide himself until now. Emilia has become a stronger person, she was immature before and frankly unfit to become a ruler, but now she has learned to be more confident and grow more as a person so that she could stand at the same stage as the other candidates, and others but the point I'm trying to make is that you seem to want a direct way of driving the story forward, but this arc is important as it serves the foundation for the future. It indirectly drives the story forward for the future as the developments and revelations made this season will make a positive impact for the story and characters moving forward. I'm a novel reader so I'm looking at this at an unfair look as I know what happens but once more seasons come out, a lot of people will understand why this arc was really important, this season is like one of those stories where you won't know why it matters until you see the positive effects it brought, and as this season was mostly character development you will see the effects of their development in future seasons |
GilgameshuuJun 27, 2021 4:29 PM
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| Agreed, season one is amongst the finest anime seasons I have ever watched, and it proceeds to set the bar way too high for season two. My biggest concern watching season two, aside from the witches royal rumble nearby episode 11 and some more awkward moments that sent my attentiveness flying to Antarctica, would be the fact that we go from fantasy to tends to look like real world on its functioning while entirely working off a fantasy model to fantasy world with fantasy shit happening. Don't get me wrong I really enjoyed season 2 but it's a fatass downgrade overall. The fact the matter is season 2 is useful in explaining what happened in the second half of season 1, yet it fails to deliver it properly. I don't fancy much having to create and introduce a plethora of characters in a short amount of time (considering the Re:Zero universe would most likely last 150 to 250 episodes to be completed at this pace) to make a plot works. Plus they forgot to introduce stuff for a 3rd season in it, aside from the obvious sin dude in white I forgot the name. Or else I missed it (which is likely as K missed a lot of stuff in season 1 I only realized having missed while re-watching it lately). Fantastic show overall, season 1 is a league above in my book. |
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Animefan13923 said: Idk how u got disappointed but even people who hate Re: Zero know s2 was fantastic and better than s1 Lol exactly even Re:Zero haters converted to fans or atleast accept it. |
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Animefan13923 said: I think s3 would be even better lol I saw Light Novel (canon) format of Season 3 and it is promising with right adaptation it will be better than first two seasons for sure. |
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