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Jan 26, 2021 8:57 AM
#1
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Aug 2019
25
You can give some critique to what im about to say, here im just trying to make some discussion.

So the father of isekai doesn't mean its the first isekai or something that made an isekai trend. Its more like the one that start the tropes for the neet isekaied to a fantasy world and become OP (maybe most of you will say rudeus is not OP, but i considered him ad an OP character but done right) with a harem in it. MT is the one that made this kind of tropes popular, hence people called it 'father of isekai'.

Btw, i have no problem with OP characters at leats they were done right, i would say Rudeus is OP but he went through not with just one training arc to be powurful (or just become powurful out of nowhere) but with years of years of training which was not a lazy writing. There will also revealed peoples that are more powerful than rudeus later on the series (one of the writing technique to craft a good OP character). I said he is OP cuz it is undeniable to say that he is just above everage.

And also for harem genre will not always a bad thing, like what they done in MT was done right. Every girl has their own character arc and has their own roles and influence to rudeus which is really good. There are some great harem series like monogatri after all.

And the worldbuilding for the fantasy world is also great. We've learn a lot of things about the world (about magic, etc) within just 2 ep.

So the the 'generic isekai' TROPES IN MT IS NOT ITS FLAWS. They were done really well. Its not surprising cuz MT actually one of the first using it or prob the first one. Rather the flaws is within the perviness of the MC. Its prob the show biggest flaws yet, but it also shown that the MC will not be always perfect which is debatable.

So to summarize of what im trying to say is,

Forget about the fcking isekai tropes. Just watch this series and open your eyes.
Avvenire__Jan 26, 2021 9:00 AM
Jan 26, 2021 3:53 PM
#2

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Oct 2019
25
I think the same bro. This anime have many points for become something big!

Let's see what future holds to us 🧐
Incluso si nunca nos llegamos a ver otra vez,
vamos a estar unidos por el Abyss.
Jan 26, 2021 4:44 PM
#3

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May 2019
3457
Just as like Konosuba is also very generic, with all the tropes possible... aaaaaand done right (in comedic parody).
Jan 26, 2021 9:29 PM
#4

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Nov 2013
7525
I don't know... I've been into anime/manga for about 10+ years and never did I ever hear about the existence of Mushoku Tensei. And I mean EVER; not from anyone I personally know, nor on the forums, nor in recommendations.
It was until the day 2021 winter season anime were announced that I, and I believe many others, discovered that this was THE thing. For something claiming to be the "father of Isekai" it's been relatively unknown to LOADS of people.
Hence why it's understandable why some people might be pissed or too judgmental when it comes to critique of this show.
It certainly isn't/wasn't that popular or even well known I believe, and now suddenly it appears out of "nowhere" and claims to be #1 or very special case. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against the series (yet, at least), but that's how I believe things go. Don't know how things are in Japan, but I have a feeling this will never be as popular in the west as say... SAO, re-zero, Konosuba, Slime or even Shield hero. I'm sure many will praise it as a masterpiece or a "hidden gem", but to the masses it will still remain just "yet another generic Isekai".

P.S I don't think people really give two shits about it being first at anything. I think this claim will only make fans of other Isekai hate this more.
Jan 26, 2021 10:07 PM
#5
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Aug 2019
25
Sigmar-Unberogen said:
I don't know... I've been into anime/manga for about 10+ years and never did I ever hear about the existence of Mushoku Tensei. And I mean EVER; not from anyone I personally know, nor on the forums, nor in recommendations.
It was until the day 2021 winter season anime were announced that I, and I believe many others, discovered that this was THE thing. For something claiming to be the "father of Isekai" it's been relatively unknown to LOADS of people.
Hence why it's understandable why some people might be pissed or too judgmental when it comes to critique of this show.
It certainly isn't/wasn't that popular or even well known I believe, and now suddenly it appears out of "nowhere" and claims to be #1 or very special case. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against the series (yet, at least), but that's how I believe things go. Don't know how things are in Japan, but I have a feeling this will never be as popular in the west as say... SAO, re-zero, Konosuba, Slime or even Shield hero. I'm sure many will praise it as a masterpiece or a "hidden gem", but to the masses it will still remain just "yet another generic Isekai".

P.S I don't think people really give two shits about it being first at anything. I think this claim will only make fans of other Isekai hate this more.


FYI, im not trying to say it was the father of isekai. Im just giving some assumption on what the MT fans are calling 'father of isekai' is.

Btw, you have a point there. I don't think it will be as popular as those other big isekais since it (unfortunately) used the generic isekai tropes, unlike Re:Zero which i found to be pretty unique.
Jan 27, 2021 4:22 AM
#6

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Sep 2020
71
If only the mc wasn't a fucking pedo
Jan 27, 2021 7:13 AM
#7
Offline
May 2016
56
ExBaku5 said:
If only the mc wasn't a fucking pedo
ExBaku5 said:
If only the mc wasn't a fucking pedo


#lolicon
Maybe you are new into otakus culture
But lolicon is one of common interest in otaku world
Thats why a lot of lolicon character in a lot of anime

And some hentai lolicon too
Jan 27, 2021 7:16 AM
#8

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Sep 2020
71
Yohanlie said:
ExBaku5 said:
If only the mc wasn't a fucking pedo
ExBaku5 said:
If only the mc wasn't a fucking pedo


#lolicon
Maybe you are new into otakus culture
But lolicon is one of common interest in otaku world
Thats why a lot of lolicon character in a lot of anime

And some hentai lolicon too


Nah,I've been watching anime for over 5 years
Jan 27, 2021 7:51 AM
#9
Offline
Sep 2015
31
ExBaku5 said:
Yohanlie said:


#lolicon
Maybe you are new into otakus culture
But lolicon is one of common interest in otaku world
Thats why a lot of lolicon character in a lot of anime

And some hentai lolicon too


Nah,I've been watching anime for over 5 years

Isn't the whole point of MC Character Development is that he was a Pedo Neet who doesn't have single redeeming qualities and that he is trying to become a Better Man.
Jan 27, 2021 8:17 AM
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Aug 2019
25
ExBaku5 said:
If only the mc wasn't a fucking pedo


Yeah if he wasn't such a perv. But anyway, he became less and less acting as a creep throught out the series. As a manga and novel reader of MT i would say the ammount of he acting like a creep will drastically reduced start at ep 5 and so on until the 2nd cour (i predicted).
Jan 27, 2021 12:28 PM
Offline
May 2016
56
ExBaku5 said:
Yohanlie said:


#lolicon
Maybe you are new into otakus culture
But lolicon is one of common interest in otaku world
Thats why a lot of lolicon character in a lot of anime

And some hentai lolicon too


Nah,I've been watching anime for over 5 years


Over 5 years?
Soo cute.

I watching anime from 2003 bro
That if you not counting doraemon, shinchan, ect
I might be know anime from 1995 when there was kobo chan, and same kind was in the tv show
Counting that

At 2010 the lolicon concept still popular
Tokyou mew mew
Sailor moon
Air 1000th summer
Clannad
Kanon

And a lot of character design at that time was looks like child, lolicon, rather than mature woman loke zenith
They was popular and become lolicon material

A lot of character anime at that time is teenagers and looks loke child

You western just new deal in anime industry and might be confused

I not saying lolicon is healthy
But in our place, otakus,
A lot of people influenced by lolicons things at that time
Specially with teenager character anime

I admit that
This kind of things dont have clear border about lolicon amd phedopilia

But. Mostly people love lolicon 2D not really interested with real children

Lolicon is the dark matter of Japanese pop culture, infusing everything from best-selling comics and animation to the nation’s ever popular girl groups. Yet it’s almost never discussed in polite society. Indeed, the very term is something of a four-letter word in Japanese, virtually synonymous with pedophilia. When I recently spoke about lolicon to a comic-book-artist friend—an industry veteran who dabbles in erotica herself—she lowered her voice to a whisper whenever she uttered the term.

Lolicon emerged in Japan in the late nineteen-seventies as self-published fan parodies of popular female manga characters. Something like the Tijuana bibles of the manga world, they exposed the eroticism hinted at in the curvaceous young cartoon beauties of the mainstream. Lolicon’s arrival, perhaps not coincidentally, accompanied the coming of age of the first generation of boys who had been raised on manga and anime, and the runaway popularity of these amateur pornographic productions triggered a flood of similar content in Japan’s vibrant professional comic industry. For a time, lolicon seemed poised to go mainstream. But in the end it remained a skeleton in the closet, reaching only domestic audiences as more palatable sci-fi and fantasy fare, such as the apocalyptic cyberpunk epic “Akira” and the early films of the director Hayao Miyazaki, built the foundations of “Cool Japan” abroad in the nineteen-eighties.
YohanlieJan 27, 2021 12:41 PM
Jan 27, 2021 7:34 PM

Offline
May 2016
655
The show is being saved by pretty animation. Everything else is trash tier pls.

Down on the West Coast

They got a sayin'
Jan 27, 2021 7:50 PM
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Sep 2020
139
ExBaku5 said:
If only the mc wasn't a fucking pedo
The whole story is about his redemption as a human being...
Jan 27, 2021 8:02 PM
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Aug 2019
25
TeamDalaiLana said:
The show is being saved by pretty animation. Everything else is trash tier pls.


Mind to elaborate? Or maybe give some counter arguments to my quote? (the first quote i mean, cuz im the one who opened the thread)
Avvenire__Jan 27, 2021 8:06 PM
Jan 27, 2021 11:35 PM
Offline
Jul 2020
295
Delirium231 said:
So the MC is an ugly fat loser NEET hikikomori in his past life and gets reincarnated into another world in a much better body and is no longer ugly and fat and later on girls like him and has his own harem of girls? Seems like the ultimate wish fulfillment fantasy for otaku audience.

not trying to say much but there isnt a harem tag in the genre so why do u think he's getting a harem?
Jan 27, 2021 11:46 PM
Offline
Sep 2015
31
Delirium231 said:
So the MC is an ugly fat loser NEET hikikomori in his past life and gets reincarnated into another world in a much better body and is no longer ugly and fat and later on girls like him and has his own harem of girls? Seems like the ultimate wish fulfillment fantasy for otaku audience.

I guess this Video Explain why Mushoku Tensei is more than Just a generic isekai.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XySt1Xdq3oE&t=475s
Jan 28, 2021 12:28 AM

Offline
Apr 2013
254
TeamDalaiLana said:
The show is being saved by pretty animation. Everything else is trash tier pls.



I personally find it difficult as to why people see this as a generic Isekai when everything that are being shown from the last three episode is anything but that.
Jan 28, 2021 4:35 AM
Offline
Apr 2016
14
Markio_midoriya said:
Delirium231 said:
So the MC is an ugly fat loser NEET hikikomori in his past life and gets reincarnated into another world in a much better body and is no longer ugly and fat and later on girls like him and has his own harem of girls? Seems like the ultimate wish fulfillment fantasy for otaku audience.

not trying to say much but there isnt a harem tag in the genre so why do u think he's getting a harem?


Later in the story he would find himself


Whether that counts as a harem is up to people's interpretation. I personally sees that as close but not quite harem enough. And it's probably 2-3 seasons in before it gets to that point.
"Be grateful for the miracles that have already happened instead of hoping for new ones"-- A sadistic teddy bear
Jan 30, 2021 10:44 AM

Offline
Sep 2020
71
Yohanlie said:
ExBaku5 said:


Nah,I've been watching anime for over 5 years


Over 5 years?
Soo cute.

I watching anime from 2003 bro
That if you not counting doraemon, shinchan, ect
I might be know anime from 1995 when there was kobo chan, and same kind was in the tv show
Counting that

At 2010 the lolicon concept still popular
Tokyou mew mew
Sailor moon
Air 1000th summer
Clannad
Kanon

And a lot of character design at that time was looks like child, lolicon, rather than mature woman loke zenith
They was popular and become lolicon material

A lot of character anime at that time is teenagers and looks loke child

You western just new deal in anime industry and might be confused

I not saying lolicon is healthy
But in our place, otakus,
A lot of people influenced by lolicons things at that time
Specially with teenager character anime

I admit that
This kind of things dont have clear border about lolicon amd phedopilia

But. Mostly people love lolicon 2D not really interested with real children

Lolicon is the dark matter of Japanese pop culture, infusing everything from best-selling comics and animation to the nation’s ever popular girl groups. Yet it’s almost never discussed in polite society. Indeed, the very term is something of a four-letter word in Japanese, virtually synonymous with pedophilia. When I recently spoke about lolicon to a comic-book-artist friend—an industry veteran who dabbles in erotica herself—she lowered her voice to a whisper whenever she uttered the term.

Lolicon emerged in Japan in the late nineteen-seventies as self-published fan parodies of popular female manga characters. Something like the Tijuana bibles of the manga world, they exposed the eroticism hinted at in the curvaceous young cartoon beauties of the mainstream. Lolicon’s arrival, perhaps not coincidentally, accompanied the coming of age of the first generation of boys who had been raised on manga and anime, and the runaway popularity of these amateur pornographic productions triggered a flood of similar content in Japan’s vibrant professional comic industry. For a time, lolicon seemed poised to go mainstream. But in the end it remained a skeleton in the closet, reaching only domestic audiences as more palatable sci-fi and fantasy fare, such as the apocalyptic cyberpunk epic “Akira” and the early films of the director Hayao Miyazaki, built the foundations of “Cool Japan” abroad in the nineteen-eighties.
Okay bro if you think you're superior because you've watched more animw, I don't have anything to say, you ruined me, I'm about to end your whole career when I come back with 500+ anime and more than a decade of experience in watching anime
Jan 31, 2021 10:35 AM

Offline
Dec 2015
3261
Yeah. Personally I like it more than other generic stuff like the generic shounen Kimetsu no Yaiba or the other generic isekai like Re:Zero or Tate no Yuusha.

Keeping it a bit more simple + a good adaption (visuals, sound) and some nice chars ... often are enough.
Jan 31, 2021 10:54 AM

Offline
Jan 2020
440
Luthandorius said:
Yeah. Personally I like it more than other generic stuff like the generic shounen Kimetsu no Yaiba or the other generic isekai like Re:Zero or Tate no Yuusha.

Keeping it a bit more simple + a good adaption (visuals, sound) and some nice chars ... often are enough.
Re: Zero is not generic in fact its probably one of the most different Isekai
U-Y-P-W-O-C-U-T-I-K-A-T-I-P-M-I-N-I-I-D-I-H-I-W-T-S-T-I-W-S-T-O-M-P-T-I-L-U-C-H-N-I-D-T-I-I-Y-I-M-N-O-W-S-T-S-W-N-I-B-W
Jan 31, 2021 11:16 AM

Offline
Dec 2015
3261
Well. For me it is generic. (At least for the first 8 episodes I have watched.) Random annoying guy (one of the worst main chars I have ever seen in anime) + some girls as "waifus" (to please the fans) teleported in another world.

Some fancy words where normal words already existed like "metia" (if I remembver correctly - for artifact) - just to make it look cooler.

Then some usual fantasy stuff thrown in. Getting into some loop is nothing new. While it may be new for isekai it already existed in a lot of other stories.

At least I would not say this one here (Mushoku Tensei) is any more generic. Maybe - if you want it - you could call both not generic.

I mean ... getting to see the childhood also did not happen in that many other isekai so far.
Jan 31, 2021 2:35 PM
Offline
Jun 2019
62
Avvenire__ said:
You can give some critique to what im about to say, here im just trying to make some discussion.


Don't mind if I do. ;)

Avvenire__ said:
i would say Rudeus is OP but he went through not with just one training arc to be powurful (or just become powurful out of nowhere) but with years of years of training which was not a lazy writing. There will also revealed peoples that are more powerful than rudeus later on the series (one of the writing technique to craft a good OP character). I said he is OP cuz it is undeniable to say that he is just above everage.


I disagree with the premise that Rudeus is overpowered. As you said, there are various characters in the series that are more powerful than him and comparing him to what's "average" is a false way (in my opinion) to describe somebody as overpowered. You could say that Araragi Koyomi, Emiya Shirou, Subaru Natsuki, any side characters from a Shounen anime, etc. are better than average, but in the context of their show, they are significantly underpowered. This is the same with Rudeus,
.

I believe he seemed overpowered, because many of the other "generic isekai" anime frequently give their overpowered protagonists powerful magic abilities, and Rudeus does indeed have powerful magic abilities, even at the start. That is where that misconception may have originated.

Avvenire__ said:
And the worldbuilding for the fantasy world is also great. We've learn a lot of things about the world (about magic, etc) within just 2 ep.


I know, right?! Mushoku Tensei has some amazing worldbuilding! That one arc where
is an absolute stroke of genius!
Not only that, I'm an absolute sucker for combat-system development, and Mushoku Tensei has plenty of that! (Although I hope it would develop the melee combat systems a bit more, right now, I only know bits and pieces of the whole picture).
Jan 31, 2021 11:09 PM
Offline
Aug 2019
25
FilipPaul said:
Avvenire__ said:
You can give some critique to what im about to say, here im just trying to make some discussion.


Don't mind if I do. ;)

Avvenire__ said:
i would say Rudeus is OP but he went through not with just one training arc to be powurful (or just become powurful out of nowhere) but with years of years of training which was not a lazy writing. There will also revealed peoples that are more powerful than rudeus later on the series (one of the writing technique to craft a good OP character). I said he is OP cuz it is undeniable to say that he is just above everage.


I disagree with the premise that Rudeus is overpowered. As you said, there are various characters in the series that are more powerful than him and comparing him to what's "average" is a false way (in my opinion) to describe somebody as overpowered. You could say that Araragi Koyomi, Emiya Shirou, Subaru Natsuki, any side characters from a Shounen anime, etc. are better than average, but in the context of their show, they are significantly underpowered. This is the same with Rudeus,
.

I believe he seemed overpowered, because many of the other "generic isekai" anime frequently give their overpowered protagonists powerful magic abilities, and Rudeus does indeed have powerful magic abilities, even at the start. That is where that misconception may have originated.

Avvenire__ said:
And the worldbuilding for the fantasy world is also great. We've learn a lot of things about the world (about magic, etc) within just 2 ep.


I know, right?! Mushoku Tensei has some amazing worldbuilding! That one arc where
is an absolute stroke of genius!
Not only that, I'm an absolute sucker for combat-system development, and Mushoku Tensei has plenty of that! (Although I hope it would develop the melee combat systems a bit more, right now, I only know bits and pieces of the whole picture).

Yep, fair enough. I somehow misunderstood some things in vol 9 since rudy looks a bit OP there. But when i read vol 13 i relized that he is certainly not OP
Jan 31, 2021 11:14 PM
scientia exitus

Offline
Mar 2020
6363
I think so. It terms of isekai it's the most relatively grounded in reality there is, and thus makes for a more compelling premise imo. Even though with this last episode apparently a lot of good stuff was left out of the light novels, it still made for a great episode and so far it's been a breath of fresh air in terms of isekai


NYANPASU
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