Attack on Titan
| Original MAPPA styled Colt: (Huge disclaimer): the picture from mappa is obviously not finished and you can expect a much better frame when it actually begins airing.  Colt, but in WIT studios type of style:  Pretty cool, found this circulating on Twitter. IMO, I like both of them, what are your thoughts? Which do you prefer? Please don't start another flamewar here, I wanted to discuss something with a different perspective. EDIT 1: I always keep getting amazed by how good the background is. Props to the person responsible for it. |
ZprotuNov 4, 2020 4:42 PM
deg said: its not actually WIT but the character designer or chief animation director that did that thick lines style and i like that more Toei animation is also experimenting with thick line arts like that starting with Dragon Ball Super and its just a filter to them so its automated The extra detail is nice and it makes it so that the subject fits in with the hyper-realistic background a lot more easily and the scene itself looks cinematic but the obvious drawback with this style is that the production will become immensely more taxing. |
deg said: Zprotu said: The extra detail is nice and it makes it so that the subject fits in with the hyper-realistic background a lot more easily and the scene itself looks cinematic but the obvious drawback with this style is that the production will become immensely more taxing. not if they use automated line filtering like Toei does though https://twitter.com/AnimeAjay/status/1098420010198974464 I was actually talking about the 3 different levels of lighting across his face and not the lines. I don't really have a preference between having the lines or not and it isn't a big deal but the shading and lighting is what is important. |
| I guess if this what people mean eh? It's just a slight bit more of gloss on the left side and more shadow on the right. The nose is more accurate to the manga in MAPPA's version. If people really feel that is a problem that is fine I don't. That said this post at least explained why they feel WIT did it better granted in someone's view. I would have to look back and see how often those details showed up even in WIT"s adaption because it wasn't something I ever noticed. |
deg said: Zprotu said: I was actually talking about the 3 different levels of lighting across his face and not the lines. I don't really have a preference between having the lines or not and it isn't a big deal but the shading and lighting is what is important. ah ok ye that kind of shading is really time consuming to do heck in Sword Art Online its done only on few scenes like this one https://twitter.com/HiconManiacs/status/1284520306804092930 Yeah exactly. Also is it the effects director's job or is it actually coloured in one at a time? |
Reiner_undieable said: NoPainNoBacon said: what do you mean ? Watch any ep of the past 3 seasons they always used these 3 shades and if you are talking about the backgrounds you have so much gorgeos shots unfortunatly I don't know how to put photos here in mal cause you have to use those codes and other things and I don't have time.Can someone pull up some WIT aot scenes that have this level of detail? More about backgrounds, you can expect even better-looking ones for this season. The person in charge of them is popping off like crazy. |
| Meh, I don't have any problem with it. |
| That mappa colt pic looks like shit, |
John_Glames said: the Wit style Colt here looks better than the official MAPPA one I presume when the anime actually airs Colt in that scene will look slightly better, no Wit gloss but the right side of his face should be shaded. Visual changes are made even after PV is released and Wit sometimes even made changes to the footage they would show in next episode previews This is not to say MAPPA Colt looks bad though, I am actually quite satisfied with it especially given that the background is gorgeous. ^^This Also, not to mention that this type of design will not be as taxing to the animators, which is a good thing when you consider that they are currently being overworked by at least 3-4 times than WIT people were. (Source: Eslam) |
The PV actually has two shots that rival WIT's signature work:  Kishi Tomohiro is a versatile designer, there's a big chance we'll see more of these shots (hopefully without the blur, but that seems to be going okay right now). Here’s a quote from Hayashi about his adaptation of Kakegurui. It might ease your minds a bit: ‘‘I feel that often with these kinds of projects, to show something faithfully, to bring something to the screen that fans will enjoy, you must almost be a mega-fan yourself. You have to get to the point where you can almost understand the source material even more than a typical fan… so that you know that even if you change something, the fans won’t be too upset about it because you wouldn’t be too upset about it. You really have to put yourself in the headspace of the fans. It comes down to: as you are in essence a fan, what you want to see will, in some ways, line up with what the fans want to see.’’ π |
Skjilani said: Zprotu said: ^^This Also, not to mention that this type of design will not be as taxing to the animators, which is a good thing when you consider that they are currently being overworked by at least 3-4 times than WIT people were. (Source: Eslam) Bro where did he said that I don't think he's ever said that. The comment he's probably referring to is this one that was made by an 3D animator working on the Final Season: "It takes 3-4 times as much work to make one AOT episode as one episode of other average TV anime." Nothing about WIT there. I think we should take what leakers say with a grain of salt. I don't think Eslam has a private source telling him things. He seems to be basing his comments on what that 3D animator is posting on his public social account (he runs his mouth a lot). He also follows a Russian leaker on FB, I think that's where he gets his news from. |
candylolzNov 4, 2020 5:38 AM
candylolz said: I don't think he's ever said that. The comment he's probably referring to is this one that was made by an 3D animator working on the Final Season: "It takes 3-4 times as much work to make one AOT episode as one episode of other average TV anime." Nothing about WIT there. I think we should take what leakers say with a grain of salt. I don't think Eslam has a private source telling him things. He seems to be basing his comments on what that 3D animator is posting on his public social account (he runs his mouth a lot). He also follows a Russian leaker on FB, I think that's where he gets his news from. Yes! Freaking exactly! I don't know why but it seems like people need to be constantly reminded that NOTHING is official. Can we please chill until we see the final product before criticism? Still, I'm not talking about comparing Mappa's work to WIT's. Also, why are people bringing up the fact that animators are being overworked again? It's not like it was any different before. I thought this was obvious because of how big this project is. It sucks that WIT is no longer working on the project, but honestly, I'm happy that they let go of AoT after playing such a big role in the anime's success. What they got out of the anime after putting their hearts and souls into it is not at all fair. Mappa with all of their staff is under pressure this season. Imagine what would've happened to WIT, the smaller studio, if they were working on this. If you take these facts into account and you're still comparing Mappa's work to WIT then there is something wrong with you. Move on people! WIT is not coming back. |
| WIT's style just fits AoT more. I don't see how you can even argue this. Also, can people stop simping for MAAPA already? There is legitimate reason for concern and comparisons between the two studios are bound to happen whether you like it or not. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: WIT's style just fits AoT more. I don't see how you can even argue this. Also, can people stop simping for MAAPA already? There is legitimate reason for concern and comparisons between the two studios are bound to happen whether you like it or not. Whether you like it or not, WIT is not coming back. So why bother with these comparisons, they're gonna bring nothing but negativity towards Mappa, the people who are currently working hard and doing their best to please the fanbase. Also, I never said anything about liking one style over the other. This is subject to your own opinion. Just so you know, for me, nothing can top WIT's season 2. I 100 percent prefer WIT's style over Mappa's. These comparisons are the issue. |
YMN_KAT said: TsukuyomiREKT said: WIT's style just fits AoT more. I don't see how you can even argue this. Also, can people stop simping for MAAPA already? There is legitimate reason for concern and comparisons between the two studios are bound to happen whether you like it or not. Whether you like it or not, WIT is not coming back. So why bother with these comparisons, they're gonna bring nothing but negativity towards Mappa, the people who are currently working hard and doing their best to please the fanbase. Also, I never said anything about liking one style over the other. This is subject to your own opinion. Just so you know, for me, nothing can top WIT's season 2. I 100 percent prefer WIT's style over Mappa's. These comparisons are the issue. There's literally nothing wrong with comparing them and expecting people not to is just wishful thinking. MAAPA isn't magically immune to criticism just because they're working hard. Like yeah, we get that. But every studio works hard, and all off them receive criticism. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: WIT's style just fits AoT more. I don't see how you can even argue this. Also, can people stop simping for MAAPA already? There is legitimate reason for concern and comparisons between the two studios are bound to happen whether you like it or not. What do you have to be concerned about? The anime was either going to happen with MAAPA, not happen at all, or take years to happen with yet another different studio. And it would still draw these moronic comparisons. You guys would be here crying about it all the same. You should just shut the hell up and be happy there's a fourth season. Most people don't give a shit about the change except for a bunch of anime whores in their echo chamber crying about it like a bunch of losers. The majority of people probably won't figure out that a different studio is handling it, nor care that they're handling it instead of WIT. This is obsession with visuals is why garbage like Kimetsu no Yaiba gets so popular despite having the dirt worst writing. People should be talking about how excited they are for the STORY that's going be told and how it will be adapted, but instead they're ranting because it doesn't look like how they want it to. PATHETIC |
poemofdevil said: TsukuyomiREKT said: WIT's style just fits AoT more. I don't see how you can even argue this. Also, can people stop simping for MAAPA already? There is legitimate reason for concern and comparisons between the two studios are bound to happen whether you like it or not. What do you have to be concerned about? The anime was either going to happen with MAAPA, not happen at all, or take years to happen with yet another different studio. And it would still draw these moronic comparisons. You guys would be here crying about it all the same. You should just shut the hell up and be happy there's a fourth season. Most people don't give a shit about the change except for a bunch of anime whores in their echo chamber crying about it like a bunch of losers. The majority of people probably won't figure out that a different studio is handling it, nor care that they're handling it instead of WIT. This is obsession with visuals is why garbage like Kimetsu no Yaiba gets so popular despite having the dirt worst writing. People should be talking about how excited they are for the STORY that's going be told and how it will be adapted, but instead they're ranting because it doesn't look like how they want it to. PATHETIC Typical fanboy response. Any skepticism immediately = hate apparently. Even though I don't dislike MAAPA and even think their current show (JJK) is the best of the season, because I don't have 100% faith, I'm a pathetic hater lol. Also, the visuals aren't even what I'm the most concerned about. The STORY being potentially rushed is a bigger problem. Being happy that they're adapting it at all and not caring HOW they do so is pretty funny. Would you say the same thing about Berserk 2016/17? Would you tell people they should just be happy that that part of the story got an adaptation at all, despite the fact that it was dogshit? |
TsukuyomiREKTNov 4, 2020 7:47 AM
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| The examples I posted above are literally as good as WIT's character designs but everybody seems to ignore that. That, and the blur filter seems to have been worked on heavily. We have visual evidence showing the potential of Kishi Tomohiro's character designs and you guys still continue to be total downers. It's not like WIT had the greatest and most detailed designs in each and every single shot:   Just some random screenshots from Episode 1 of Season 2. Sorry for the quality, I had to take them from an online stream. For all we know, these images of Falco and Colt might still be unfinished. They might be from weeks ago. They might be the general level of detail and quality and not even close to the highest examples. They weren't meant as promo-material for the show anyway. Those new images are just there to announce the additional VA's and nothing else. |
TsukuyomiREKT said: YMN_KAT said: Whether you like it or not, WIT is not coming back. So why bother with these comparisons, they're gonna bring nothing but negativity towards Mappa, the people who are currently working hard and doing their best to please the fanbase. Also, I never said anything about liking one style over the other. This is subject to your own opinion. Just so you know, for me, nothing can top WIT's season 2. I 100 percent prefer WIT's style over Mappa's. These comparisons are the issue. There's literally nothing wrong with comparing them and expecting people not to is just wishful thinking. MAAPA isn't magically immune to criticism just because they're working hard. Like yeah, we get that. But literally every studio works hard, and all off them receive criticism. As I said, you can criticize as much as you want, I'm all for constructive criticism. However, these comparisons are by no means constructive criticism. Why? Well, because there is literally no purpose behind making these side-by-side comparisons but to ruin it for those who were willing to adapt to the new art style. WIT isn't gonna come back. By spreading these comparisons, people will find it more difficult to get accustomed to the new art style. What I'm trying to say is that these comparisons are gonna make this season less enjoyable for everyone. So stop dwelling on the past for your own sake. I'm trying to spread awareness for people who want to enjoy the series. Don't look at such comparisons, trust me, you'll have a better time watching. |
YMN_KAT said: TsukuyomiREKT said: There's literally nothing wrong with comparing them and expecting people not to is just wishful thinking. MAAPA isn't magically immune to criticism just because they're working hard. Like yeah, we get that. But literally every studio works hard, and all off them receive criticism. As I said, you can criticize as much as you want, I'm all for constructive criticism. However, these comparisons are by no means constructive criticism. Why? Well, because there is literally no purpose behind making these side-by-side comparisons but to ruin it for those who were willing to adapt to the new art style. WIT isn't gonna come back. By spreading these comparisons, people will find it more difficult to get accustomed to the new art style. What I'm trying to say is that these comparisons are gonna make this season less enjoyable for everyone. So stop dwelling on the past for your own sake. I'm trying to spread awareness for people who want to enjoy the series. Don't look at such comparisons, trust me, you'll have a better time watching. I'm still looking forward to the new season, but I'm gonna be skeptical and not get super hyped. If you want to do the opposite then be my guest. |
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TsukuyomiREKT said: Typical fanboy response. Any skepticism immediately = hate apparently. Even though I don't dislike MAAPA and even think their current show (JJK) is the best of the season, because I don't have 100% faith, I'm a pathetic hater lol. A typical fanboy response is accusing people of "simping" for calling out the stupidity surrounding the discussion of this project. TsukuyomiREKT said: Also, the visuals aren't even what I'm the most concerned about. The STORY being potentially rushed is a bigger problem. Being happy that they're adapting it at all and not caring HOW they do so is pretty funny. Would you say the same thing about Berserk 2016/17? Would you tell people they should just be happy that that part of the story got an adaptation at all, despite the fact that it was dogshit? You aren't concerned about the story being rushed at all. You can't even make any statements about that until the season airs in its entirety. I can understand some animation geek nitpicking frames from a PV, but how the hell are you going to be concerned about the story being rushed without seeing a single episode of the show? It's idiotic. If they were to announce... Hey, instead of giving you a full season we're adapting season 4 into a single movie, or adapting it within a length of a 4 episode OVA, then in either of these scenarios you MAAAAYYYYY have a point to be concerned, but otherwise any concerns at the moment are unwarranted. As for BERSERK '16-'17, yeah people should probably be happy it got any adaptation at all. Seeing as how at that point it felt like the Golden Age Arc was going to be the only thing repeatedly adapted from the series. I gave both season of that show 10s. Voice acting, music, writing were all on point. 10s. But in the anime community it's all about durrrrrrr CG guts moving 2 frames a second in one scene. As if that's what all anime is distilled to. Look at the staff on a project. It isn't just animators. |
poemofdevilNov 4, 2020 8:23 AM
| I think the 2nd trailer will put this all to bed, as in persons will make up their mind whether they like it or not since there is still a lot of known right now. |
poemofdevil said: TsukuyomiREKT said: Typical fanboy response. Any skepticism immediately = hate apparently. Even though I don't dislike MAAPA and even think their current show (JJK) is the best of the season, because I don't have 100% faith, I'm a pathetic hater lol. A typical fanboy response is accusing people of "simping" for calling out the stupidity surrounding the discussion of this project. TsukuyomiREKT said: Also, the visuals aren't even what I'm the most concerned about. The STORY being potentially rushed is a bigger problem. Being happy that they're adapting it at all and not caring HOW they do so is pretty funny. Would you say the same thing about Berserk 2016/17? Would you tell people they should just be happy that that part of the story got an adaptation at all, despite the fact that it was dogshit? You aren't concerned about the story being rushed at all. You can't even make any statements about that until the season airs in its entirety. I can understand some animation geek nitpicking frames from a PV, but how the hell are you going to be concerned about the story being rushed without seeing a single episode of the show? It's idiotic. If they were to announce... Hey, instead of giving you a full season we're adapting season 4 into a single movie, or adapting it within a length of a 4 episode OVA, then in either of these scenarios you MAAAAYYYYY have a point to be concerned, but otherwise any concerns at the moment are unwarranted. As for BERSERK '16-'17, yeah people should probably be happy it got any adaptation at all. Seeing as how at that point it felt like the Golden Age Arc was going to be the only thing repeatedly adapted from the series. I gave both season of that show 10s. Voice acting, music, writing were all on point. 10s. But in the anime community it's all about durrrrrrr CG guts moving 2 frames a second in one scene. As if that's what all anime is distilled to. Look at the staff on a project. It isn't just animators. I don't need to see the show to know that they've had production issues, and that said production issues could lead to a rushed adaptation. This happens all the time with anime. I'm not even saying that the story is rushed as if it was a fact. I don't know. None of us know. That's why I said potentially. I'm just being a little skeptical. What is wrong that? |
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MironBiron said: dam that quote makes me trust hayashi even moreThe PV actually has two shots that rival WIT's signature work: Kishi Tomohiro is a versatile designer, there's a big chance we'll see more of these shots (hopefully without the blur, but that seems to be going okay right now). Here’s a quote from Hayashi about his adaptation of Kakegurui. It might ease your minds a bit: ‘‘I feel that often with these kinds of projects, to show something faithfully, to bring something to the screen that fans will enjoy, you must almost be a mega-fan yourself. You have to get to the point where you can almost understand the source material even more than a typical fan… so that you know that even if you change something, the fans won’t be too upset about it because you wouldn’t be too upset about it. You really have to put yourself in the headspace of the fans. It comes down to: as you are in essence a fan, what you want to see will, in some ways, line up with what the fans want to see.’’ π |
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| @poemofdevil I'm gonna chime in and talk about the grand scheme of things but what is the point of life if you'll come up with a reasoning to become content with everything, do you really lack the innate desire for enjoying or achieving the absolute best? I doubt if you had the choice you wouldn't choose a better animated adaptation of Berserk just because you love the story so much. On the contrary, it is actually a natural response to want better animation if you are truly confident in the story and believe pacing will be decent regardless. Plus, just like you said, there is no point in thinking about pacing before seeing at least a few episodes, it's not the same thing with the visuals. Returning to this specific situation; we obviously don't have the rights to get angry and attack MAPPA on a personal level, since we are not in the control of the current events that would be an entitled thing to do, but being disappointed and expressing your frustration -if there are any- is only natural. Accepting and enjoying everything thrown at you just because you can't do a thing about it is what I have a hard time believing a sound choice for most of the people, including you. You have to realize we are not talking about ifs, we know the manga wil be adapted completely, there is no point in thinking what would have happen if there weren't any plans for a season 4. Plus, where do you even draw the line? If I understood you correctly, in your logic, there wouldn't be a point to criticize the lack of season 4, because we already got three seasons, or better, we didn't need an adaptation at all cause we already had the manga, those should be enough to make us happy. Does that make any sense to you or did I get you wrong? I'm just writing this because I can't agree with the line of thinking going around the forums. Otherwise I actually liked the recent two pictures and came to terms with the studio change a while ago. You are absolutely right about Demon Slayer though, it has a terrible story, but unironically you are both criticising majority of the people for their lack of taste and then using them as a way of supporting your claims. How did Demon Slayer become so successful if these people can't even notice a studio change but can understand how good animation supposed to look? I'm eagerly waiting for the responses saying how hysteric I am. Truth be told, this wasn't related to AoT for me. It's your thinking I'm arguing against. |
MironBiron said: The PV actually has two shots that rival WIT's signature work: Kishi Tomohiro is a versatile designer, there's a big chance we'll see more of these shots (hopefully without the blur, but that seems to be going okay right now). Here’s a quote from Hayashi about his adaptation of Kakegurui. It might ease your minds a bit: ‘‘I feel that often with these kinds of projects, to show something faithfully, to bring something to the screen that fans will enjoy, you must almost be a mega-fan yourself. You have to get to the point where you can almost understand the source material even more than a typical fan… so that you know that even if you change something, the fans won’t be too upset about it because you wouldn’t be too upset about it. You really have to put yourself in the headspace of the fans. It comes down to: as you are in essence a fan, what you want to see will, in some ways, line up with what the fans want to see.’’ π Lol I didn't want to start a flamewar like the one that is going on in this thread, so thanks for easing everyone's worries. I'm gonna put a little note on the post to say that the released picture is unfinished. |
Zprotu said: MironBiron said: The PV actually has two shots that rival WIT's signature work: Kishi Tomohiro is a versatile designer, there's a big chance we'll see more of these shots (hopefully without the blur, but that seems to be going okay right now). Here’s a quote from Hayashi about his adaptation of Kakegurui. It might ease your minds a bit: ‘‘I feel that often with these kinds of projects, to show something faithfully, to bring something to the screen that fans will enjoy, you must almost be a mega-fan yourself. You have to get to the point where you can almost understand the source material even more than a typical fan… so that you know that even if you change something, the fans won’t be too upset about it because you wouldn’t be too upset about it. You really have to put yourself in the headspace of the fans. It comes down to: as you are in essence a fan, what you want to see will, in some ways, line up with what the fans want to see.’’ π Lol I didn't want to start a flamewar like the one that is going on in this thread, so thanks for easing everyone's worries. I'm gonna put a little note on the post to say that the released picture is unfinished. I'm still against this π but I'm not mad. |
sammy69 said: dam that quote makes me trust hayashi even more Yuppppp. He’s a modern-day visionary and I honestly wouldn’t want anyone else to direct The Final Season. |
MironBiron said: the guy has respect towards the fans of the source material...and the quote is the proof of thatsammy69 said: dam that quote makes me trust hayashi even more Yuppppp. He’s a modern-day visionary and I honestly wouldn’t want anyone else to direct The Final Season. |
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chiearlymorning said: what about the one who direct jujutsu kaisen Park is perfect at supervising fight scenes but he isn’t very adapt at giving them the right staging, let alone doing dialogues that require proper editing, emotional framing and cinematographic compositing. He animated awesome fight scenes for Hayashi’s adaptations of GARO and Hayashi directed episodes for Park’s version of the same franchise so he might drop by during later stages of production to work on The Final Season. |
MironBiron said: The PV actually has two shots that rival WIT's signature work: Kishi Tomohiro is a versatile designer, there's a big chance we'll see more of these shots (hopefully without the blur, but that seems to be going okay right now). Here’s a quote from Hayashi about his adaptation of Kakegurui. It might ease your minds a bit: ‘‘I feel that often with these kinds of projects, to show something faithfully, to bring something to the screen that fans will enjoy, you must almost be a mega-fan yourself. You have to get to the point where you can almost understand the source material even more than a typical fan… so that you know that even if you change something, the fans won’t be too upset about it because you wouldn’t be too upset about it. You really have to put yourself in the headspace of the fans. It comes down to: as you are in essence a fan, what you want to see will, in some ways, line up with what the fans want to see.’’ π I'm trying so hard not to let my expectations get too high until I watch the 2nd PV, but the more I learn about Hayashi and how passionate he is the more I feel that we're in for something great. I can't wait to see what he has in store for us! I do have a question though. I see some of you are hopeful that the Colt shot could look better when the anime airs, but aren't the first two episodes in post-production already? Do they go back to change stuff? I just find it a bit unlikely that they'd provide an "unfinished" shot to be release to the public at this point, even if it's just for the VA announcement. I personally have no issue if it stays the same, I'm just curious of where the optimism is coming from. |
candylolz said: they can add more details when the blu ray comes out for s4MironBiron said: The PV actually has two shots that rival WIT's signature work: Kishi Tomohiro is a versatile designer, there's a big chance we'll see more of these shots (hopefully without the blur, but that seems to be going okay right now). Here’s a quote from Hayashi about his adaptation of Kakegurui. It might ease your minds a bit: ‘‘I feel that often with these kinds of projects, to show something faithfully, to bring something to the screen that fans will enjoy, you must almost be a mega-fan yourself. You have to get to the point where you can almost understand the source material even more than a typical fan… so that you know that even if you change something, the fans won’t be too upset about it because you wouldn’t be too upset about it. You really have to put yourself in the headspace of the fans. It comes down to: as you are in essence a fan, what you want to see will, in some ways, line up with what the fans want to see.’’ π I'm trying so hard not to let my expectations get too high until I watch the 2nd PV, but the more I learn about Hayashi and how passionate he is the more I feel that we're in for something great. I can't wait to see what he has in store for us! I do have a question though. I see some of you are hopeful that the Colt shot could look better when the anime airs, but aren't the first two episodes in post-production already? Do they go back to change stuff? I just find it a bit unlikely that they'd provide an "unfinished" shot to be release to the public at this point, even if it's just for the VA announcement. I personally have no issue if it stays the same, I'm just curious of where the optimism is coming from. |
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