Should shoujo-ai and and shounen-ai tags be removed and replaced with Yuri and Yaoi?
| Why can't everything just be under Yuri and Yaoi like in Japan? Even if it's pure/cute or hardcore, they should still be under one tag. |
| Why make searches less useful? If anything they should be renamed, not removed. |
| I think it's fine as is? Those genres have a tradition. They were not arbitrarily put there. Shoujo ai isn't really yuri. One is less mature, the other is. There's shounen and seinen, and none opposes the difference. |
 |
| This would be so unhelpful. They're not the same thing at all. That would be like uniting romance and hentai. As someone who often looks specifically for wholesome shounen-ai with no smut and other times looks specifically for yaoi smut merging these tags would be really annoying. |
  π₯ π₯ π₯ . ιΏθ―γ
ζ¨ ζ¦, ε· η© θͺ . π₯ π₯ π₯ Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
Plate said: Why make searches less useful? If anything they should be renamed, not removed. Lolsebca said: I think it's fine as is? Those genres have a tradition. They were not arbitrarily put there. Shoujo ai isn't really yuri. One is less mature, the other is. There's shounen and seinen, and none opposes the difference. horridhendy said: This would be so unhelpful. They're not the same thing at all. That would be like uniting romance and hentai. As someone who often looks specifically for wholesome shounen-ai with no smut and other times looks specifically for yaoi smut merging these tags would be really annoying. I appreciate your opinions! My take on shoujo-ai (I'll stick to yuri because that's what I know) is that it's practically yuri. To me, it's the same thing but a different label. Shoujo-ai is a western term that isn't used much in Japan. I've never seen it used online while using Japanese forums and people just call it Yuri. I find it easier to just call everything by Yuri. The western term for Yuri is hentai and I find that to stray away from the original meaning. I think Yuri is a spectrum that could range from cute and fluffy to hardcore hentai. if a Yuri is a hentai, why not just add the hentai tag? (they already do that too) Not to mention having a series with both tags of shoujo-ai and Yuri, which defeats the purpose of having shoujo-ai. In my point of view, I'd find it easier for a manga or anime to have a mature or explicit tag if it's it's a bit more heavy than an average anime, and a hentai tag if it's a hentai tag. Yuri is Yuri at the end of the day! I'm not sure how it is for Yaoi, so I'll refrain from saying anything that could be wrong! I've been into Yuri for over 7 years now and I stopped using the term shoujo-ai 5 years ago. I really appreciate you reading this and I would love to read your take on my opinion! |
Kaokasy said: I appreciate your opinions! My take on shoujo-ai (I'll stick to yuri because that's what I know) is that it's practically yuri. To me, it's the same thing but a different label. Shoujo-ai is a western term that isn't used much in Japan. I've never seen it used online while using Japanese forums and people just call it Yuri. I find it easier to just call everything by Yuri. The western term for Yuri is hentai and I find that to stray away from the original meaning. I think Yuri is a spectrum that could range from cute and fluffy to hardcore hentai. if a Yuri is a hentai, why not just add the hentai tag? (they already do that too) Not to mention having a series with both tags of shoujo-ai and Yuri, which defeats the purpose of having shoujo-ai. In my point of view, I'd find it easier for a manga or anime to have a mature or explicit tag if it's it's a bit more heavy than an average anime, and a hentai tag if it's a hentai tag. Yuri is Yuri at the end of the day! I'm not sure how it is for Yaoi, so I'll refrain from saying anything that could be wrong! I've been into Yuri for over 7 years now and I stopped using the term shoujo-ai 5 years ago. I really appreciate you reading this and I would love to read your take on my opinion! Well, since you asked so nicely, here are my thoughts on why I'm not a fan of merging the two genres. We're talking a bit at cross odds because I cannot speak on Yuri as I have literally never seen a show tagged as yuri and I don't intend to but Yaoi and Shounen-ai are very different. Shounen-ai is basically wholesome romance involving two guys. Not all yaoi are romantic - believe me! In fact, I would go so far as to say a lot of yaoi are distinctly unromantic. Yaoi comes with a lot of tropes including uke/seme dynamics, non-consent etc. which you just don't really get with shounen-ai. Putting yaoi and shounen-ai together really does feel like putting hentai and romance together - it doesn't work because they aren't the same thing. You surely wouldn't suggest doing that? Yaoi has a lot of baggage with it and I can see why people would classify themselves as fans of shounen-ai but not yaoi, it's like saying I'm a fan of romance but not hentai. The whole point of tags in my book is two-fold: 1. To make it easy to search the anime database for anime you might want to watch. 2. To inform people about what to expect from a particular anime If you classify all the shounen-ai and yaoi as yaoi then it makes doing number 1 a lot more difficult. If I am looking for cute shounen-ai romance then I don't want to have to sift through all the yaoi titles to see how explicit they are. I want a quick way of finding wholesome BL romance. Secondly, if I see an anime tagged as yaoi then I know instantly that there's going to be some smut involved - which is useful. As to your solution of adding the hentai tag, the problem is that often the level of smut in yaoi is not necessarily enough to call it a hentai so your solution of adding the hentai tag doesn't work for me. For example: Fuyu no Semi has two sex scenes in it which aren't very explicit. Nowhere near explicit enough to deserve the hentai tag. It's mainly a drama and adding the hentai tag for two short scenes would be very misleading but it's not shounen-ai either because it has smut in it. So it sits neatly in the yaoi genre. No smut whatsoever = Shounen-ai (e.g. Given, Doukyuusei) equivalent to Romance Smut = Yaoi (e.g. Fuyu no Semi, Kizuna) equivalent to Ecchi Porn level Smut = Yaoi Hentai (Sensitive Pornograph, Enzai) equivalent to Hentai Personally, I find these distinctions helpful. It allows me to find out what an anime is before going into it and it allows me to easily find what I'm in the mood for. As I said, I know absolutely nothing about yuri or shoujo-ai but I think getting rid of shounen-ai would be huge inconvenience and a terrible idea for a lot of people. Even if they don't have this distinction in Japan, they do in "western" culture and MAL is a "western" site so to go back to one blanket term would be unhelpful. I mean - what would be the point in having a less helpful system?? I hope what I said makes sense. This is just my opinion on it. Perhaps your idea would work for yuri - I have no idea :) |
HendyJun 13, 2020 5:35 PM
π₯ π₯ π₯ . ιΏθ―γ
ζ¨ ζ¦, ε· η© θͺ . π₯ π₯ π₯ Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
horridhendy said: Kaokasy said: I appreciate your opinions! My take on shoujo-ai (I'll stick to yuri because that's what I know) is that it's practically yuri. To me, it's the same thing but a different label. Shoujo-ai is a western term that isn't used much in Japan. I've never seen it used online while using Japanese forums and people just call it Yuri. I find it easier to just call everything by Yuri. The western term for Yuri is hentai and I find that to stray away from the original meaning. I think Yuri is a spectrum that could range from cute and fluffy to hardcore hentai. if a Yuri is a hentai, why not just add the hentai tag? (they already do that too) Not to mention having a series with both tags of shoujo-ai and Yuri, which defeats the purpose of having shoujo-ai. In my point of view, I'd find it easier for a manga or anime to have a mature or explicit tag if it's it's a bit more heavy than an average anime, and a hentai tag if it's a hentai tag. Yuri is Yuri at the end of the day! I'm not sure how it is for Yaoi, so I'll refrain from saying anything that could be wrong! I've been into Yuri for over 7 years now and I stopped using the term shoujo-ai 5 years ago. I really appreciate you reading this and I would love to read your take on my opinion! Well, since you asked so nicely, here are my thoughts on why I'm not a fan of merging the two genres. We're talking a bit at cross odds because I cannot speak on Yuri as I have literally never seen a show tagged as yuri and I don't intend to but Yaoi and Shounen-ai are very different. Shounen-ai is basically wholesome romance involving two guys. Not all yaoi are romantic - believe me! In fact, I would go so far as to say a lot of yaoi are distinctly unromantic. Yaoi comes with a lot of tropes including uke/seme dynamics, non-consent etc. which you just don't really get with shounen-ai. Putting yaoi and shounen-ai together really does feel like putting hentai and romance together - it doesn't work because they aren't the same thing. You surely wouldn't suggest doing that? Yaoi has a lot of baggage with it and I can see why people would classify themselves as fans of shounen-ai but not yaoi, it's like saying I'm a fan of romance but not hentai. The whole point of tags in my book is two-fold: 1. To make it easy to search the anime database for anime you might want to watch. 2. To inform people about what to expect from a particular anime If you classify all the shounen-ai and yaoi as yaoi then it makes doing number 1 a lot more difficult. If I am looking for cute shounen-ai romance then I don't want to have to sift through all the yaoi titles to see how explicit they are. I want a quick way of finding wholesome BL romance. Secondly, if I see an anime tagged as yaoi then I know instantly that there's going to be some smut involved - which is useful. As to your solution of adding the hentai tag, the problem is that often the level of smut in yaoi is not necessarily enough to call it a hentai so your solution of adding the hentai tag doesn't work for me. For example: Fuyu no Semi has two sex scenes in it which aren't very explicit. Nowhere near explicit enough to deserve the hentai tag. It's mainly a drama and adding the hentai tag for two short scenes would be very misleading but it's not shounen-ai either because it has smut in it. So it sits neatly in the yaoi genre. No smut whatsoever = Shounen-ai (e.g. Given, Doukyuusei) equivalent to Romance Smut = Yaoi (e.g. Fuyu no Semi, Kizuna) equivalent to Ecchi Porn level Smut = Yaoi Hentai (Sensitive Pornograph, Enzai) equivalent to Hentai Personally, I find these distinctions helpful. It allows me to find out what an anime is before going into it and it allows me to easily find what I'm in the mood for. As I said, I know absolutely nothing about yuri or shoujo-ai but I think getting rid of shounen-ai would be huge inconvenience and a terrible idea for a lot of people. Even if they don't have this distinction in Japan, they do in "western" culture and MAL is a "western" site so to go back to one blanket term would be unhelpful. I mean - what would be the point in having a less helpful system?? I hope what I said makes sense. This is just my opinion on it. Perhaps your idea would work for yuri - I have no idea :) Thank you for sharing your opinion! I really do appreciate it! I totally get your point of view when it comes to yaoi, as I've been duped into reading hardcore yaoi hentai before. I guess yaoi has more of a smut and hentai problem compared to Yuri and I can see how helpful the shounen-ai tag is for you! I can understand why a lot of people prefer the shoujo-ai and shounen-ai tags now! I do wish that yaoi and Yuri aren't linked with hentai but we've reached that point now and I guess there's no going back! I made this thread to understand other people's opinions and why those tags are used. With Yuri, I've seen a lot of manga series with both shoujo-ai and Yuri tags and I felt like that defeated the purpose of the shoujo-ai tag. But I guess it's different for the yaoi comunity! I've also come to see that the majority of the poll favors the shoujo-ai and shounen-ai tags! Maybe I should've just asked the Yuri community but I also wanted to know how it was like with other communities! Thank you! I've been shut down before and people told me my opinion was invalid, so I really do appreciate you taking your time to give me a proper response! I hope you have a good day. :D |
Kaokasy said: Thank you for sharing your opinion! I really do appreciate it! I totally get your point of view when it comes to yaoi, as I've been duped into reading hardcore yaoi hentai before. I guess yaoi has more of a smut and hentai problem compared to Yuri and I can see how helpful the shounen-ai tag is for you! I can understand why a lot of people prefer the shoujo-ai and shounen-ai tags now! I do wish that yaoi and Yuri aren't linked with hentai but we've reached that point now and I guess there's no going back! I made this thread to understand other people's opinions and why those tags are used. With Yuri, I've seen a lot of manga series with both shoujo-ai and Yuri tags and I felt like that defeated the purpose of the shoujo-ai tag. But I guess it's different for the yaoi comunity! I've also come to see that the majority of the poll favors the shoujo-ai and shounen-ai tags! Maybe I should've just asked the Yuri community but I also wanted to know how it was like with other communities! Thank you! I've been shut down before and people told me my opinion was invalid, so I really do appreciate you taking your time to give me a proper response! I hope you have a good day. :D Thanks for being so polite about it and not getting defensive like a lot of people tend to. I guess it is totally possible to have mature discussions about things on the internet! :) I agree that having both the shoujo-ai and yuri might defeat the purpose of the tags. I sort of feel like there should be one or the other. Then again, if a manga had yaoi and shounen-ai then I guess that would tell me that there was romance but with smut scenes - so perhaps it would still be informative? I think perhaps you're right in that it maybe works differently with the Yuri community - perhaps yuri and shoujo-ai are more similar. I haven't seen any yuri and the only shoujo-ai I've seen was the Utena movie so I have no idea. Yaoi has come to have such a distinct and different meaning in western culture to shounen-ai that it just seems odd to mix them. Calling "Given" a yaoi seems as crazy to me as calling "Toradora" a hentai! Lol. |
π₯ π₯ π₯ . ιΏθ―γ
ζ¨ ζ¦, ε· η© θͺ . π₯ π₯ π₯ Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
Thanks for being so polite about it and not getting defensive like a lot of people tend to. I guess it is totally possible to have mature discussions about things on the internet! :) I agree that having both the shoujo-ai and yuri might defeat the purpose of the tags. I sort of feel like there should be one or the other. Then again, if a manga had yaoi and shounen-ai then I guess that would tell me that there was romance but with smut scenes - so perhaps it would still be informative? I think perhaps you're right in that it maybe works differently with the Yuri community - perhaps yuri and shoujo-ai are more similar. I haven't seen any yuri and the only shoujo-ai I've seen was the Utena movie so I have no idea. Yaoi has come to have such a distinct and different meaning in western culture to shounen-ai that it just seems odd to mix them. Calling "Given" a yaoi seems as crazy to me as calling "Toradora" a hentai! Lol. Since I live in a place that doesn't have much exposure to anime and manga, I had to learn about stuff through research and ended up learning about Yaoi and Yuri through online forums and small communities. I guess this might be why I might have had a different take on shoujo-ai and shounen-ai. I have seen given and it was great! I really liked the music and I honestly can't imagine it being a hentai, but I still call it a yaoi show. Because I don't see yaoi and Yuri as hentai, I think this is a problem more in my end then the community! I do wish people who are into Yuri could give their opinions on this thread so I can see their views on it as well! I don't think they'll agree with me though, but who knows? My conclusion is that I have a totally different definition for Yuri and yaoi (which aren't incorrect, but don't really follow the western definitions) and that's probably why I don't like the use of shounen-ai and shoujo-ai. But I do agree with what you said and like you said, MAL is mostly western so it makes sense of their use of the terms! I do wish that we could remove the Yuri and yaoi terms with the association of hentai, but that might be too hard at this point. If I remember correctly, most Yuri blogs and forums don't use the term shoujo-ai, so I think people might share similar thoughts to me, but I could be wrong! Either way, I learned a lot and I do respect the terms more as people find them useful in some ways, which is great! And yes! I'm glad we're having a proper discussion! That's what I hoped for! :') |
| If you are going to use words from a foreign language in your speech you should at least use them correctly. Shoujo-Ai has an entirely different meaning in Japanese, so I say yuri only. Most people who actually watch it say yuri only. Yuri =/= hentai and idk who came up with that silly idea. |
Maenads said: If you are going to use words from a foreign language in your speech you should at least use them correctly. Shoujo-Ai has an entirely different meaning in Japanese, so I say yuri only. Most people who actually watch it say yuri only. Yuri =/= hentai and idk who came up with that silly idea. I agree with you! I haven't personally used the word shoujo-ai in a long time, and I haven't seen it used by most of the Yuri community unless it's a newcomer that doesn't know much about Yuri. And I do agree with Yuri =/= hentai! It's not even part of the original definition. I do agree that Yuri is a spectrum that can range from something cute to something similar to hentai. I don't think shoujo-ai should replace the "soft" yuri because you can easily solve the problem by adding the hentai or explicit/mature tag! |
What, again? No. No. NO! If you want to be a weeaboo purist - then stop using "anime" as "Japanese cartoons" and "manga" as "Japanese comics". Because Japanese calling all cartoons "anime" and all comics "manga". This is decades old tradition and it will not going away. Live with it. |
There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value. Oil and nuclear are civilisation saviours. Deal with it. |
More topics from this board
Sticky: » Manga DB - Post Modifications/Duplicates Here ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Aarana - Jan 4, 2009 |
8298 |
by nerfsunny
»»
Oct 11, 2:44 PM |
|
Sticky: » Manga DB - Post Genre/Theme Requests Here ( 1 2 3 4 5 )Kineta - Mar 28, 2022 |
247 |
by karrotStick
»»
Oct 11, 9:37 AM |
|
» Add Neo Enuma Elis (γγͺ γ¨γγ γ¨γͺγ·γ₯)vasipi4946 - Oct 9 |
1 |
by St0rmblade
»»
Oct 10, 2:47 AM |
|
» Novel approvaldianielcoo - Jun 5, 2022 |
12 |
by jiaoqius
»»
Oct 9, 11:30 AM |
|
» Add "Sakura no Machi" by Sugaru Miakikizumi91 - Oct 8 |
2 |
by kizumi91
»»
Oct 8, 6:36 AM |