The Problem With School Uniforms in Anime

Feb 17, 2020 9:33 AM

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This may be an unpopular opinion of mine, but I always disliked school uniforms in anime. Even the more fashionable ones that look great by themselves like SSY's or Ouran's uniforms tend to remove personality design-wise from the characters. Mainly because of how much clothing is a part of a character's design since it covers a good portion of the body and is a useful tool for showcasing stuff about a character(i.e job, mental age, likes, hobbies, personality, etc). So when you have all your characters wearing basically the same thing because a school demands it you are left with relying on the facial features, colors, the body itself, and hairstyles to differ your characters and show personality. Which wouldn't be so bad if anime characters didn't tend to have the same facial features as each other in the same show. This means you are left with very limited ways for your design to be good on the front of knowing what a character is about just by looking at them.
For instance, take Ouran Highschool Host Club, the uniform is very upper class and elegant as matches the type of school the characters go to. However, the more posh style only really matches Kyoya quite well in terms of personality. Honey is very childish in most aspects of his personality and who isn't really that elegant, mature or formal in how he presents himself. So in that way, the uniform actually is quite contradictory to who he is. The same kind of deal is true for the twins who are more mischevious and rebellious personalities wise which a more stuffy, on-dress code uniform doesn't convey.

Uniforms are very collective and not individualistic design-wise in the first place, so having your whole main cast in them was bound to be a bad idea. Not saying a good design can't have the uniforms, Ouran is actually pretty okay in that regard. Just that it removes individuality and personality a lot of the time and the vast majority of character designs are better without it.

TL;DR: Uniforms get rid of a large portion of a character design's potential and can actually be the complete opposite of a character's personality in some cases.

Any thoughts on the topic you would like to share?

Feb 17, 2020 9:40 AM

NickRedMachine

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Jun 2019

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I'd counter that with that in some anime, it brings a sense of unity a group might otherwise not have had.

For example, in Code Geass, a lot of the characters are radically different from each other, but to see them in school together, wearing the same stuff, brings them together in a way.

Feb 17, 2020 9:44 AM

Alcoholicide

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Feb 2010

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I don't mind them, but for the most part their only upside is that they can look sexy on a lot of anime girls because of their short skirts. If all school uniforms were pants only I doubt they would be as popular with anime fans :>.

In some cases they are so ugly and it ruins the aesthetics of the entire anime for me - Yes I'm talking about you, Amanchu.

But for the most part I don't care. Neither irl nor in anime do I particularly care about what people wear. I would care if I had to wear them, because I hate such restrictions on principle. If you tried to make teenage me wear a school uniform, I would have most likely rebelled until I had to leave the school - that's how strong my disdain for stuff like that is.
But as for anime, where I'm just watching, it's just another set of clothes to me that I don't particularly care about one way or the other.

I do think that there is more freedom of expressing individuality than you give credit for tho, even with uniforms. On the one hand I just never saw fashion as being that expressive in the first place and I am mostly completely disinterested in it irl so that extends to anime as well. The important aspects of characterization and expressing individuality are based on what characters think, what they say, what they do, how they interact with others, their values and beliefs and all that fun stuff. Superficial aspects like clothing are of secondary or tertiary relevance to someone's individuality at best, at least as far as I'm concerned. They only fulfil the purpose of making a character recognizable, and I don't see a fundamental difference between using clothes or hair colors or other physical features for that purpose. It all amounts to the same.

And on the other hand you can still do stuff with uniforms. You can make girls wear male uniforms to establish them as tomboys, or the other way around for traps. You can make them wear the uniform properly or sloppily to express an aspect of their personality. You can make characters get creative with the uniform to express some of their individuality. You can establish a character as an airhead by making them wear their uniform the wrong way or something along those lines.

I probably regret this post by now.

Feb 17, 2020 9:44 AM

Summeryn

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I guess uniforms cut a lot of the workload for the animators since lots of the characters are literally wearing the same outfit.I appreciate when an anime makes the effort to make each character have different stylistic choices though.In some long-running shounen characters change their outfits regularly which i find pretty cool.

Feb 17, 2020 9:45 AM

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NickRedMachine said:
I'd counter that with that in some anime, it brings a sense of unity a group might otherwise not have had.

For example, in Code Geass, a lot of the characters are radically different from each other, but to see them in school together, wearing the same stuff, brings them together in a way.

I can partially understand that, but I think color schemes or one unified design piece(i.e every character wearing armour of some kind) would've been a better choice in most cases if you are going for unity.

Having the same outfit goes too much in the opposite extreme since the differences that make up the character isn't going to be shown that well.

Feb 17, 2020 9:47 AM

Summeryn

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Peaceful_Critic said:

I agree subtle similarities in colour is better than having mutiple characters literally wearing the same thing.I´m an artistic person,so i´m naturally inclined to notice character´s fashion choices so I appreciate things like outfit changes once in a while.

SummerynFeb 17, 2020 9:52 AM

Feb 17, 2020 9:48 AM

NickRedMachine

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Peaceful_Critic said:

It's visually less interesting, that's for sure. However, it also makes it so that the writer has to put in more effort to differentiate the characters from each other personality wise, as opposed to using appearance as a cop-out.

I'm not saying you're wrong, opinions are just that, but I personally have no issues with school uniforms for those reasons.

Feb 17, 2020 9:49 AM

yoti

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Aug 2018

413

It can make things worse for the uniqueness of the character but its not something you can't avoid, in a lot of animes the characters look different despite the clothings, just this very season we have eizouken where the 3 girls wear the same uniform and they don't look alike at all, and earlier this year we had promised neverland where despite wearing the same clothes they all looked incredibly different, and this isn't even talking about body shapes

You can include MHA and little witch academia in that regard cause they use anything from body shapes to how each character wears their uniforms to any other feature the character has other than the clothes

You could also change how the character wears the uniform to show their personality, ripped and messy uniforms Vs well maintained ones could say a lot

My point is, that if you want to make your characters look unique you can also do it with the same uniforms, and its usually not the uniforms fault its the lazy designer's fault

yotiFeb 17, 2020 11:26 AM

Feb 17, 2020 10:09 AM

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@Pullman

The important aspects of characterization and expressing individuality are based on what characters think, what they say, what they do, how they interact with others, their values and beliefs and all that fun stuff. Superficial aspects like clothing are of secondary or tertiary relevance to someone's individuality at best, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I'm talking about individuality design-wise specifically since that's what school uniforms concern. I'm not saying characters with uniforms lack individuality altogether. Personality is more important obviously, but I still value the presentation of a character quite a bit as well. Character designs are less superficial to me because as I said before it gives a visual representation of who that character is.

I don't see a fundamental difference between using clothes or hair colors or other physical features for that purpose. It all amounts to the same.

The main difference between relying on color over the outfit. Are that outfits have a lot of variety available in comparison. There are only so many colors and so many colors that compliment each other. Outfits have many parts to them and can show a character's personalities in more ways because of that. Colors are cool and all, but they are very limited in comparison to other ways to differ a character.

And on the other hand you can still do stuff with uniforms. You can make girls wear male uniforms to establish them as tomboys, or the other way around for traps. You can make them wear the uniform properly or sloppily to express an aspect of their personality. You can make characters get creative with the uniform to express some of their individuality. You can establish a character as an airhead by making them wear their uniform the wrong way or something along those lines.

Those are very subtle differences that don't stand out enough to convey that much. K-On did this, but the character designs of that show still largely sucked because most characters wouldn't be able to modify their outfits that much since the personality wouldn't make sense to modify it in any particular way. Like any moderately elegant or mature character is just going to wear the uniform as is and most personalities aren't particularly disobedient enough to do anything with it. New outfits altogether are just a better option since you can show stuff like hobbies, interests and every personality would be able to show off their personality in some way.

Feb 17, 2020 10:19 AM

#10

Dramare

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Apr 2019

I mean, you are correct but what exactly can they do? Highschool shows are a genre in anime, and in Japan, basically all schools have strict rules around their school uniform. Unless they stop making shows set in highschool, which would be like killing a genre, they are kinda stuck with it. And while some school uniforms do manage to be designed to be unique/character descriptive, if the show is set in an average highschool, they can't do much but untuck a shirt and get rid of a tie for a delinquent. I mean you are not wrong, but isn't it like giving out about the sky being blue in the majority of shows set on the planet Earth? If they want to make a highschool show, the uniform has to be included. It wouldn't make sense for them to wear anything else.

Feb 17, 2020 10:21 AM

#11

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RonnyZapata said:
and ... where is the unpopular here?

Keyword: "may"

Missaliensan said:

I agree subtle similarities in colour is better than having mutiple characters literally wearing the same thing.I´m an artistic person,so i´m naturally inclined to notice character´s fashion choices so I appreciate things like outfit changes once in a while.

I'm a bit nervous about characters who change outfits because coming up with several outfits that fit the personality of a character is harder than thinking up one outfit that does the same.
It would be more gratifying if it is pulled off though.

NickRedMachine said:

It's visually less interesting, that's for sure. However, it also makes it so that the writer has to put in more effort to differentiate the characters from each other personality wise, as opposed to using appearance as a cop-out.

I'm not saying you're wrong, opinions are just that, but I personally have no issues with school uniforms for those reasons.

The writer isn't making the design, the character designers are. The effort of one department isn't going to affect the other.

No disclaimer needed, I didn't think you were trying to tell me that I have to like school uniforms.

Dramare said:
I mean, you are correct but what exactly can they do? Highschool shows are a genre in anime, and in Japan, basically all schools have strict rules around their school uniform. Unless they stop making shows set in highschool, which would be like killing a genre, they are kinda stuck with it. And while some school uniforms do manage to be designed to be unique/character descriptive, if the show is set in an average highschool, they can't do much but untuck a shirt and get rid of a tie for a delinquent. I mean you are not wrong, but isn't it like giving out about the sky being blue in the majority of shows set on the planet Earth? If they want to make a highschool show, the uniform has to be included. It wouldn't make sense for them to wear anything else.

It's an anime, they make up the rules. They don't have to follow real-life examples in order to do something.

removed-userFeb 17, 2020 10:26 AM

Feb 17, 2020 10:27 AM

#12

bluninja

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May 2019

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I agree that it's hard to express a character's personality while they're wearing school uniforms. But it's Japan and Japanese students always wear school uniforms. So it has to exist, especially in Slice of Life type of anime.

Meanwhile, this school anime just excels in unique character designs (but yeah it's more like a comedy series than a sol):
Boku no Tonari ni Ankoku Hakaishin ga Imasu

If you read Eleceed you're automatically my friend.

Feb 17, 2020 10:30 AM

#13

Summeryn

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Peaceful_Critic said:

Long running shows,such as shounen for example,do the outfit changing thing a lot.It keeps things refreshing.

Feb 17, 2020 10:38 AM

#14

NickRedMachine

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Peaceful_Critic said:

I thought a lot of mangaka did both the characters and the story? I could be wrong though.

Feb 17, 2020 10:39 AM

#15

Dramare

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Peaceful_Critic said:
It's an anime, they make up the rules. They don't have to follow real-life examples in order to do something.

I mean...You're wrong. It's true that it is just fiction and like in any work of fiction, they can do what they want, they CAN make up the rules. But the rules have to make sense for the setting. In Re:Life, the story is set in real life Japan. The rule the author creates is a drug that will let you seem like a younger person so you can attend school to live that period of your life again. Does it make sense? No. But that rule is made use of as the entire story is built around it. We, the viewer/reader, can accept the rule because it is what the story is built upon as that is justification in itself. If an author was just to say "They don't wear uniforms cause it didn't look good" it would not make sense for the setting. Why are students not in uniform in school? Because the author said so? Making choices for artistic merit might be fine in fantasy/sci-fi work but it is more damaging than not when it comes to shows set in reality.

Saying, "It's fine cause it's not real life" is not a valid reason. It would work for some shows that aren't trying to be serious or too realistic, but not for the more serious ones.

Feb 17, 2020 10:39 AM

#16

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@yotamdin

just this very season we have eizouken where the 3 girls wear the same uniform and they don't look alike at all

In that case, the anime used differing facial features(same goes for Neverland) which most anime don't use because the standard face looks prettier and is more visually appealing. I do agree that the character designs in that show are pretty good though, but for other reasons aside from the outfit.

You could also change how the character wears the uniform to show their personality, ripped and messy uniforms Vs well-maintained ones could say a lot

That's true, but as I said to Pullman, changing the uniform is slightly pretty limiting as only certain personalities can be showcased that way in comparison to using a different outfit altogether.

My point is, that if you want to make your characters look unique you can also do it with the same uniforms, and its usually not the uniforms fault its the lazy designer's fault

I don't disagree with you, but at the same time, the concept of the uniform is still at fault. Other parts can make up for it, but the unity of having your characters wear the same exact thing is also the problem since as I said before, the uniform itself may be in contrast to a character's personality altogether. Not to mention using a uniform by itself is a short cut in comparison to making a new outfit for each of your characters.

Feb 17, 2020 10:57 AM

#17

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@Dramare
To a certain extent, this is true like you can't have historic victorian fashion in a SCI-FI setting in most cases, but a school without a uniform isn't that crazy. You can still get away with it in modern times. It's not impossible in the realm of Japanese schools, so there's no need for an explanation. I don't see why it would break the rules of the setting at all unless you mean to tell me absolutely every school in Japan requires them to wear a uniform. Which is probably wrong, assuming Japan doesn't have a law throughout the country stating all schools must have a uniform, it isn't unrealistic. It's just different from the norm. Most anime with uniforms aren't that normal in the first place because the girls can get away with wearing an inch skirt which probably wouldn't pass dress codes in a lot of schools or have schools in which the uniform is very flexible.

@NickRedMachine
I'm not entirely sure if they do either. I was thinking mainly of anime in which the writer doesn't usually make up the designs and the interpretation of the manga's design is left up to another person.

Feb 17, 2020 11:05 AM

#18

redvelvetdoll

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one reason i can think of an excuse to use uniforms are instances like magical girl shows where the same transformation scenes are used every episode. but then again, cardcaptor sakura redid those every time to reflect sakura's outfits.
I dont mind uniforms as long they're 1.not ugly as hell, 2. characters have a lot of changes/accessories to distinguish themselves or 3. each character goes to a different school, so there's several uniforms

Feb 17, 2020 12:48 PM

#19

katsucats

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Dramare said:
I mean...You're wrong. It's true that it is just fiction and like in any work of fiction, they can do what they want, they CAN make up the rules. But the rules have to make sense for the setting.

Yep, I completely agree. Fiction occurs in separate worlds, but they're worlds inspired by ours. We only put them into context by how well we relate to them, based on our own experiences. And while anime exists in fictional worlds, they exist, commonly, in fictional Japan. In order to convince people that it is Japan, it needs to be significantly similar to Japan.

The idea that just because it's fiction the authors have unlimited artistic license over the entire world only makes sense if you're watching a 3 year old's sketch book.

I think anyone who's serious about, not just the fantasy constructs in anime, but the anime medium as a whole, recognizes that when they dress down 15 year old girls in revealing clothing, that is not necessarily an artistic preference, but marketing to send "insider" signals and placate a particular subset of obsessive fans (i.e. fanservice). These ridiculous, individualized character designs are a detraction to the artistic value of the anime, not a benefit. They remove from the relatability of how we see 15 year olds, and how 15 year olds are in Japan.

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THE CHAT CLUB.

Feb 17, 2020 12:51 PM

#20

ChilliePeppers

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TBH, I don't even really disagree. If I have a chance to see a character in their own fashion rather than a school uniform, I'll always say their own fashion because it can be a lot more interesting to see what the artists come up with.

But I don't think uniforms are that bad either, because there's still a level of craft that goes into designing one. I'm gonna use Just Because as an example because it shows off what I mean pretty clearly.

Apart from Izumi, they're all in the same standardised uniform, but Souma's a casual, sporty kinda guy so he wears his shirt untucked and his tie loose. Komiya forgoes the tie, the blazer and the shoes in favour of a hoodie and trainers because she spends most of her time running around in the cold doing photography, even cutting classes for it. And meanwhile, Morikawa is more prim and proper so she keeps it quiet and neat with no extra bits.

ChilliePeppersFeb 17, 2020 12:54 PM

Feb 17, 2020 1:05 PM

#21

zombie_pegasus

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The thing is, about 90% of public schools in Japan have a uniform, and obviously 100% of private ones, and although that does mean some don't, it's more expensive to design different clothing for every character so to go out of your way to make more work for you and your employees to design an abnormal school doesn't make sense unless the story somewhat revolves around it. Even when it's set in elementary school, like in Cardcaptor Sakura or Shugo Chara, they usually still opt for uniforms for simplicity despite the fact that most elementary schools in Japan don't have uniforms.

It could be nice if more anime were set in uniform free schools, but I understand the budget constraints of anime and I don't particularly mind it anyway. Japanese uniforms tend to be a lot cuter than the clothing people where I live would choose to wear anyway.

Feb 17, 2020 1:17 PM

#22

removed-user

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@katsucats

And while anime exists in fictional worlds, they exist, commonly, in fictional Japan. In order to convince people that it is Japan, it needs to be significantly similar to Japan.

They are other elements to clue people into that fact like bento boxes, the actual school itself which has the characters change shoes more often than not, exams to get into certain high school, cleaning duty at the end of the school day, classes that are named with letters, etc. The character designs were never close to actual Japanese people anyway because the hair was colorful, the eyes are unrealistically big to the point no human could hope to have it, they have crazy hairstyles and the dress code in a lot of anime is very loose anyway with characters wearing their uniforms with their own twist(i.e Rosario+Vampire, 5-toubun no Hanayome, Magic-Kyun! Renaissance, Masamune-kun no Revenge, Musaigen no Phantom World, etc).

The idea that just because it's fiction the authors have unlimited artistic license over the entire world only makes sense if you're watching a 3 year old's sketch book.

I mean do they not? Could the author not make the school whatever they want(i.e a magic school, a sc-fi one, a school for gifted students, etc)? Or even decide to have the school in a different country?

I think anyone who's serious about, not just the fantasy constructs in anime, but the anime medium as a whole, recognizes that when they dress down 15 year old girls in revealing clothing, that is not necessarily an artistic preference, but marketing to send "insider" signals and placate a particular subset of obsessive fans (i.e. fanservice).

I know why they do it, and I never talked about it being an artistic preference. I just pointed and said: "hey here's a very common anime trope that isn't normal in Japan's schools either"

These ridiculous, individualized character designs are a detraction to the artistic value of the anime, not a benefit. They remove from the relatability of how we see 15 year olds, and how 15 year olds are in Japan.

But the crazy over top personalities of tsunderes, yanderes and Genki girls, don't? Or how about the perfect faces and necks that are rail thin, are they relatable to most 15-year-olds in Japan?
The character designs and personalities of anime characters were NEVER that relatable, to begin with. Relatability isn't something I consider a loss anyway. I don't really need my fictional characters to be like me or people IRL if I wanted something realistic I would be watching live-action stuff.

@A_Sad_Dust_Cloud
All of what you said, I generally do agree with, but I still don't like the concept of school uniforms on a fictional character. Yes, they can show personality with it, but they can only do so much. For example, how would you go about showing a character is childish with a school uniform or has an interest in baking? You just can't really, you wouldn't have the chance to do so or would need to rely on other elements that aren't the outfit.

removed-userFeb 17, 2020 1:33 PM

Feb 17, 2020 1:34 PM

#23

katsucats

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Peaceful_Critic said:
@katsucats

And while anime exists in fictional worlds, they exist, commonly, in fictional Japan. In order to convince people that it is Japan, it needs to be significantly similar to Japan.

They are other elements to clue people into that fact like bento boxes, the actual school itself which has the characters change shoes more often than not, exams to get into certain high school, cleaning duty at the end of the school day, classes that are named with letters, etc. The character designs were never close to actual Japanese people anyway because the hair was colorful, the eyes are unrealistically big to be human, they have crazy hairstyles and the dress code in a lot of anime is very loose anyway with characters wearing their uniforms with their own twist(i.e Rosario+Vampire, 5-toubun no Hanayome, Magic-Kyun! Renaissance, Masamune-kun no Revenge, Musaigen no Phantom World, etc).

There are other elements, but considering 90% of Japanese schools wear uniforms, it would instead be confusing if high school characters do not. Some animators strive to have more integrity. Just because a show could be more unrealistic doesn't mean it should. It would not be credible to the plot setting if every character had crazy hair and dressed like homeless delinquents trying to mimic Italian fashion designers.

Peaceful_Critic said:

The idea that just because it's fiction the authors have unlimited artistic license over the entire world only makes sense if you're watching a 3 year old's sketch book.

I'd argue that they could not. Fictional work must reside in a world that's equally fictional as it is grounded in reality. The artistic license is confined within an "Overton window" that people would accept. If I decided that my character should have 3 eyes and walk with a limp, I can't just pass that off as "normal" even if I tell you that it's normal in my fictional world. If you believe that fiction is fiction, then the concept of plot holes can never happen because anything can happen!

Peaceful_Critic said:

I know why they do it, and I never talked about it being an artistic preference. I just pointed and said: "hey here's a very common anime trope that isn't normal in Japan's schools either"

You can change personality as long as they fall within some accepted convention, and the idea of tsunderes, yanderes, etc., did not develop overnight. For the trope to be so prevalent and distinct probably required decades of fan input. But it's obviously easier to imagine a middle school student with a crazy personality than a middle school student that dresses like a stripper and doesn't get sent home.

Relatability is something you consider. I'm just going to assume I know you better than you do, because I do. :) (Hint: It's quite absurd to say that a person does not draw from his own experiences to ground the context of fiction. Why would you even call any of the characters "human"? Are they actually human, or just dancing pixels on the screen? Do they have traits that we'd consider human? Do we relate to them as human? As a fictional author, can I just draw a dot and tell you that it's a human drawn at the highest resolution/quality, because that's how humans look like in my fictional world?)

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THE CHAT CLUB.

Feb 17, 2020 2:36 PM

#24

removed-user

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@katsucats

I mean if every other element is there, it shouldn't be too confusing.
Abnormal =/= Unrealistic. Also, I would like to point out my reason isn't that it is unrealistic, but rather that the pro of being a more individualistic character design makes the con of it not being normal for Japanese HS unimportant to me.
The example you used is extreme, so most settings wouldn't get away with it obviously unless we had a homeless fashion designer anime which would be cool btw. That said, I'm only asking the characters to wear casual clothing to school which is normal modern-day wear. It isn't something that completely destroys your suspension of disbelief. After all, 10% of schools are still enough for it not to be wholly unrealistic.

If I decided that my character should have 3 eyes and walk with a limp, I can't just pass that off as "normal" even if I tell you that it's normal in my fictional world.

I mean this season you have monster prostitutes that are normal in that world, and I saw no problem with it. So you could totally sell it as normal if you had enough characters in that world like that. Normal IRL =/= Normal in a Fictional World

If you believe that fiction is fiction, then the concept of plot holes can never happen because anything can happen!

Plot holes happen when things in the same world are inconsistent. Like if you establish X, you can't do something the opposite or contradictory to X. However, plots can be as crazy as they want as long as they stay within the rules they established initially.

You can change personality as long as they fall within some accepted convention

They are partly based on reality, yes, but so is non-uniform schools. Heck, even more so if I am to believe 10% of Japanese schools have it.

and the idea of tsunderes, yanderes, etc., did not develop overnight. For the trope to be so prevalent and distinct probably required decades of fan input.

This has nothing to do with the relatability of those character types.

But it's obviously easier to imagine a middle school student with a crazy personality than a middle school student that dresses like a stripper and doesn't get sent home.

I mean don't the skirt lengths already have them dressing like a stripper?

Relatability is something you consider.

Not as something I would consider important for my enjoyment which was what I actually said. Please take note of the loss part as it changes the meaning quite a bit: "Relatability isn't something I consider a loss to begin with anyway."

It's quite absurd to say that a person does not draw from his own experiences to ground the context of fiction.

I don't remember claiming such a thing.

Do we relate to them as human? Do they have traits that we'd consider human?

If you personify them with the said literary device you can :). People related to Zootopia despite all the characters clearly being animals after all.
Being the same species is a very shallow type of relatability, but I would give you that it is indeed a type that the dot wouldn't fit.

Why would you even call any of the characters "human"? Are they actually human, or just dancing pixels on the screen? As a fictional author, can I just draw a dot and tell you that it's a human drawn at the highest resolution/quality, because that's how humans look like in my fictional world?

This has more to the idea that all anime are completely 100% subjective than it does about relatability.
Which is something you can clearly see yourself if you changed the word human to zebra, as you are asking if I can interpret the pixel as X if the author simply says so. Oh, which speaking of which is another thing these sets of questions have a lot more to do with: "the death of the author".

removed-userFeb 17, 2020 2:42 PM

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