Detective Conan Chapter 825 Discussion

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Jul 13, 2012 2:05 PM

eworm

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Jun 2010

804

THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
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"I've got us a special coach"
*Amuro appears on the next page*
*my heart stops for a second*

Seriously, he's back already? That means we're going to have A BO MEMBER CONSTANTLY AROUND - this time with Conan knowing their identity! The manga is going in an interesting direction, though we do have the usual Obligatory Murder Case first.

There's a body in a room nobody could enter. Conan was in the room. Conan's the murderer, the easiest case yet.
Does anybody else expect Conan to have lost his memories of unveiling the truth about Amuro due to the racket to the head? After waking up he didn't really seem afraid of him or anything. And neither Agasa, nor Haibara, nor "Subaru" is there to remind him.

Jul 13, 2012 11:53 PM

seke_madoule

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Mar 2011

Instead of the usual DB case we got Ran-Sonoko case but a with a bit of Haibara in the beginning... And the plot seems to be moving somewhere too... And the case seems interesting...

Looks like Haibara has become a victim of Conan's planning - and, of course, she had no idea about it. I wonder why Conan doesn't trust her... Maybe he thinks that she can ruin his entire plan by worrying and doing something stupid as a result. Or maybe Haibara has become too predictable in her behaviour - and for Conan it is easier to deal with her not by telling her everything but rather deducing what she will do and accounting for it. Rather risky scheme... what if Haibara really decides to die? But oh well, Conan knows better than me.

Amuro stays and it's a good thing - obviously, there is no reason for him not to. And Conan seemed too shocked... or did he hope for an easy victory? Yeah, he must be thinking that Sherry's dead, so mission's accomplished, and he can return to BO. But there's still Akai, who was very active on the train(maybe unnecessary), plus Sherry's death may seem suspicious - so for me, it was obvious that Amuro would hang around for a while. It seems Conan didn't expect Bourbon to be so meticulous, so I can understand his shock(though not completely - you've got to expect every possible variant with BO). One more point - the fact that Conan expected Amuro to disappear seems to determine that Conan is now on the defensive: his plan was only to get rid of Bourbon and that's all. But what about taking down BO? Well, maybe Conan decided to wait for the opportunity...And one more thing I can't understand completely - why was Conan so scared of Amuro? Yeah, it's now confirmed that he's Bourbon - but come on, Conan must have known about since the beginning(obviously, he knew who Okiya was, and even if Okiya didn't tell him about Sera, it was easy to figure out that Sera is not BO-level), furthermore Amuro doesn't know that his cover has been blown - so he's going to act like he always did and not attack everyone. That makes Conan's fear of Amuro rather strange...

Also, the idea of amnesia seems super-lame - not only has it been done before(Shiragami case, although it turned out to be not that way), but it only would stretch the plot,which is already drawn-out long enough. Seriously, Conan may forget everything about Amuro, BO, and for the next 100 files he will slowly remember everything with the help of others who know something(Agasa, Okiya, Yukiko) - but I won't be glad to see that development. I mean, we already knew who Bourbon is long enough - ever since his appearance, and only waited for confirmation. Now that we received this confirmation, Conan forgets everything, and he deduces it again - well, I don't want to see that(even for a couple of files). So I hope that Conan having been hit is only a tool to make him a suspect or an element of a closed-room trick.

Speaking of the case, it is interesting... And Yamamura(if he appears - there's a chance of Yokomizo) may accuse Conan... Also Conan doesn't seem to have his tranquilizer wristwatch, so the deduction show will be hard - and Amuro is around. Well, maybe Amuro will solve the case... Anyway, looking forward to the next file.

On a side note, why was Amuro compared to Nadal - is Gosho a Nadal fan, or does he think that Amuro resembles Nadal in a way, or it's just Sonoko being a Nadal fangirl? Who knows...

seke_madouleJul 14, 2012 12:42 AM

Jul 14, 2012 12:08 AM

AlexSadist-sama

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Mar 2009

65239

Another locked room case..

Jul 14, 2012 6:30 AM

eworm

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Jun 2010

804

eillart said:
And one more thing I can't understand completely - why was Conan so scared of Amuro? Yeah, it's now confirmed that he's Bourbon - but come on, Conan must have known about since the beginning(obviously, he knew who Okiya was, and even if Okiya didn't tell him about Sera, it was easy to figure out that Sera is not BO-level), furthermore Amuro doesn't know that his cover has been blown - so he's going to act like he always did and not attack everyone. That makes Conan's fear of Amuro rather strange...

What's so strange about being scared of seeing a cold-blooded muderer near your loved one? Besides Conan couldn't have known Amuro=Bourbon from the start, nothing really pointed to that in-universe. He was a detective-waiter who admired Kogorou. It was Sera who was unusually interested in Haibara, and Subaru who triggered Haibara's Black Sensor (though I agree, it's likely he was cooperating with Conan since the beginning). Amuro was actually suspicious just from our, the readers', point of view.

And now I'm starting to think he might be another spy in the Organization, though I hope it's not the case... He didn't want to kill Haibara, he was a friend of Date Wataru...

Rereading some of the chapters now reveals some interesting information. For example Akai DOES know Conan is Shinichi now (chapter 813) and it seems possible that Sera knows Shinichi from when they were kids! (chapter 801 especially)

Jul 14, 2012 2:21 PM

MaxCrazy7

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Feb 2009

2847

When Conan woke up and then got that shock look on his face I thought that "Amuro his onto Conan! He took his stun-watch!" but no it was just a stupid corpse in the room...

Jul 14, 2012 11:36 PM

seke_madoule

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Mar 2011

eworm said:

Yeah, it is not unnatural to be worried about your loved ones. And yes, when a killer is near them, you just can't help but fear - except for the fact that Amuro has been near Ran already on multiple occasions, there were other people on the tennis court, and furthermore, there was no reason for Amuro to attack Ran or anyone Conan-related because he thinks the things are as they were(if he knew about his train fiasco, well that could be dangerous - and even then there's a chance that Bourbon would wait). So yeah, earlier Conan was calm and collected near Amuro, and now a drastic change, and we see Haibara-like reaction for 'Men n Black'. It must be upsetting for Conan that he couldn't take out Bourbon in one blow, he must be disappointed, but why panic?

As to the statement that Amuro was suspicious only to us readers, and Conan to the very end thought that he was an honest fellow, I have to disagree. Firstly, let me state that Bourbon lurking in the shadows poses no real danger because he can't do anything from afar - so the real game begins when he gets close to Conan and Co. and to figure out his alias is the whole point of Bourbon arc. So until the train there was a possibility that Bourbon haven't approached Conan yet, or that he was among the people who did it in previous files. These people are Okiya, Sera and Amuro.

Okiya's case is very easy - he was with Conan since the very beginning. When Okiya's house burned down, Conan acted like he knew the address(too lazy to search for and post a screenshot), also there's no way that he would let in his house someone he doesn't trust. Yeah, Conan didn't want Subaru to know about his true identity, but that's just his paranoia - and now that Subaru confirmed his suspicions that he had since the paper airplane case(when Ran told him about Kinichi), he doesn't seem to mistrust Conan either. So Subaru was out of the question.

Sera's case might be a bit more difficult - I do believe that Okiya hadn't told Conan about his sister. But if he did, there's no case at all. Though I'm sure Conan didn't need Subaru's help - yes, Sera seemed suspicious since her appearance, but later it became apparent that she's not Bourbon. If in the first case, Sera figured out the truth, but let Shinichi take the stage, she failed when she was taken hostage - though yes, Conan might suspect that it had also been done on purpose. But Sera's blunders continued - she was too obvious with her inquiries, she let herself be spotted easily by Okiya etc. And of course, it doesn't match with Bourbon's secretive modus operandi. It was clear that Sera is not Bourbon or BO level. Plus her appearance may have also helped - she really looks like Akai. Even if a little trace of suspicion remained, the train was a test for Sera too - and we all know how it ended for her.

Finally, we have Amuro. And ever since his appearance, he was super-suspicious. In his first case, he must have known that Banba couldn't have committed the crime(there's a high chance he saw the shoes), but went on to accuse him nevertheless just to test Kogoro's ability. Strange, isn't it? And Kogoro gave his magnificent deduction so Amuro decided to be his apprentice. The thing is that it couldn't have escaped from Amuro that Kogoro was clueless until a certain point, and even if it did, it was obvious when they started to 'work together' that Amuro is a much better detective. And yet, Amuro stays and is even willing to pay for tuition. Interesting, isn't it? He also matches Bourbon's deduction ability and personality - we don't really know anything about him despite he's so close. What's more - Amuro is the only one of three to never meet Haibara until the train(and even then, she was with the other kids), that means Conan didn't trust him. And yeah, his night activity in the detective agency couldn't go unnoticed - it was spotted by Subaru, and he may have told Conan that someone was using the PC. Even if Subaru didn't, the fact that Amuro tricked Kogoro and Ran into giving him a password, is suspicious enough by itself.

So yeah, Conan didn't have Gundam theories, he also didn't have a privilege to see the last page of file 800 with the possible suspects talking to someone when Vermouth was talking to Bourbon, he wasn't there when Scar Akai showed himself in front of Sera, he didn't see Amuro near Date's grave(not that it helps us much), but there was enough in-world evidence to conclude that Amuro is by far the most suspicious character. And it wasn't a surprise for Conan when Amuro confirmed his suspicions.

And now, when everything is known for sure, Conan becomes shocked - yes, he may be upset, disappointed, angry, but why is he so shocked and scared? Maybe it was just too much of a surprise for him, who knows...

seke_madouleJul 14, 2012 11:41 PM

Jul 16, 2012 9:02 AM

eworm

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Jun 2010

804

I still don't think Conan was that suspicious of Amuro from the start. You don't start looking for BO members among the people who are around. You start looking for bugs and microphones, because that's how these guys usually work. They remain hidden.

Besides, if we're talking about suspicious people Conan could worry about, then we're talking about the Burned-Cheek Akai. Since Conan knew Akai was alive and Subaru, he knew it must've been Bourbon. Or at least Vermouth.

Jul 16, 2012 11:37 AM

seke_madoule

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Mar 2011

eworm said:
I still don't think Conan was that suspicious of Amuro from the start. You don't start looking for BO members among the people who are around. You start looking for bugs and microphones, because that's how these guys usually work. They remain hidden.

Besides, if we're talking about suspicious people Conan could worry about, then we're talking about the Burned-Cheek Akai. Since Conan knew Akai was alive and Subaru, he knew it must've been Bourbon. Or at least Vermouth.

Well, I think that Conan's nature is suspicious - after all, he's a detective, so he's used to doubting people. And knowing the situation he's in, it's not a bad thing - a healthy(and sometimes unhealthy) dose of suspicion can help him and his friends survive. So Conan must always be alert, and he is...

Yes, you do not usually suspect people around you - and Conan doesn't suspect people who were with him from the start(Agasa, his parents, Ran, Kogorou etc.) - but under these circumstances, when BO is hunting for Sherry and possibly him, any new character who gets in constant touch with them may be a 'a bad guy'. Remember the Vermouth arc, when Conan was super-suspicious of Jodie and agreed to cooperate with her only when she unmasked Araide - up until that moment he was just sitting in the car disguised as Haibara. Also the fact that he decided to go along with Jodie after all, proves that he had suspicions of Araide(especially, when he went to Agasa's house to cure Haibara) - and only a few readers doubted him, the majority was convinced that Jodie was Vermouth. He doesn't trust FBI completely - no one there knows his true identity, except Akai now. He also suspected Eisuke, wasn't sure if Mizunashi Rena was on justice's side etc. Conan is super-careful, super-cautious and super-suspicious, especially since he met Haibara and she told him how powerful and unforgiving BO is. Yes, under normal circumstances you wouldn't suspect everyone - but the circumstances Conan is in are far from normal - and everyone's under suspicion(and how can't they be if BO is full of masters of disguises?!)

The latest file proved that Conan is aware of bugs also - he knew that there were bugs in the train. But who plant the bugs? People! So that's why Agasa's house is now under Okiya's observation - in order for BO members not to sneak in when there's nobody home. Also Shinichi's house is protected that way too. I know, this is a little idealistic and simplified - but that's how it works - and BO can't monitor some houses which are not very important(because they aren't sure what's inside) 24 hours a day. So bugging isn't easy right now - and anyway, it was Araide-Vermouth who bugged Agasa's house in the previous arc, so even there we can see human element. What's more - Vermouth and Bourbon have their own methods, so they may try something different from surveillance and bugging - like approaching our characters and gaining their trust. And that's what they did.

Finally, I did not say that Conan hadn't been worried about Scar Akai. In truth, he was - remember the Red Shirts case, when he was running wild when he realized that there was some Akai-looking man who borrowed a mobile phone from one of the customers just to send Kogorou his deduction. And yes, he knew that it was Bourbon - because it couldn't have been Akai. And Conan even averted possible confrontation between Okiya and Scar Akai with a help of a bargain rumour - it was too risky and too early to fight Bourbon there. The thing is, Scar Akai didn't appear in front of Conan very much - there's no evident Akai-Conan connection. Also, as I have already stated, Bourbon posed no real danger lurking from the shadows - the people he approached knew nothing. But when he got closer, it became much more dangerous...

So I think that Conan simply couldn't help it. He suspected Amuro like everyone else before - and Amuro provided him with a basis for such suspicions.

Jan 21, 2017 10:03 AM

AikaRyonaLover

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Nov 2016

No, I hate it so much. He is so stupid, and everything that done by him is behind unnecessary, and unacceptable, it is so unacceptable. He firstly tired to find Haibara for no reason, and no care if she die, but still no one care, and everyone must say he is right, a good person, and smart. The same thing happened when he find Akai.

Every analysis that he did in the episodes of the challenge between him, and between Akai are Assumptions but no it must be right, and we must applaud to him

Jan 31, 2024 1:20 PM

#10

KoniginElle

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Jun 2017

2709

That's a lot of gumption from the culprit! Killing the victim in a room where a child was sleeping.

Amuro's actions in this episode don't make him look like a villain at all.

She got him back. If you understand the characters well enough, you'd know she did!

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