Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 10 Discussion

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Frostwake said:
Meh you people keep missing the point, what I mean is, this would be a great "detective" show, if everything that happened was actually real

But currently, if its true that theres no magic, they are making 100% use of a point of view of some character that is hallucinating and seeing things that arent there

I mean its just so out there that its not smart anymore... Anyone could come up with a story like this

For anyone that watched the movie "Vantage Point", THAT is how you do the "different points of view" thing, the exact same event keeps repeating, but every time you see it through another character... and everything you see from the start is real and happened, but since it keeps switching from person to person, theres always things you dont see, and the fun is seeing it all come together

But not here, the fact that we see goats and daggers and golden butterflies and teleporting beatrices means that either there is magic, or someones having big time hallucinations, which is as overplayed as it gets

Why would you want Umineko to be just another detective story? It's something more. You get a detective story + Phoenix Wright-ish scenes + crazy fantasy scenes. Even if the fantasy scenes are fake, it doesn't stop them from being entertaining.

Sep 3, 2009 3:20 PM

#53

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Mar 2009

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Frostwake said:
Meh you people keep missing the point, what I mean is, this would be a great "detective" show, if everything that happened was actually real

But currently, if its true that theres no magic, they are making 100% use of a point of view of some character that is hallucinating and seeing things that arent there

I mean its just so out there that its not smart anymore... Anyone could come up with a story like this

For anyone that watched the movie "Vantage Point", THAT is how you do the "different points of view" thing, the exact same event keeps repeating, but every time you see it through another character... and everything you see from the start is real and happened, but since it keeps switching from person to person, theres always things you dont see, and the fun is seeing it all come together

But not here, the fact that we see goats and daggers and golden butterflies and teleporting beatrices means that either there is magic, or someones having big time hallucinations, which is as overplayed as it gets

Umineko is not trying to be like the movie Vantage Point. Let's just say in this show we're an omniscient viewer presented with possible false representations. All of this can be really simple if we remember that everything our protagonist does not see could possibly not be real. Someone said before, the way we should interpret these magic scenes is to think it's some kind of metaphor of what really happened. And before someone goes sprouting off about how Battler is speaking to a witch who's making red text fly out of nowhere, we've stated many times this was an outside world non-existent to the real world. Some people interpret it as the afterlife but it's up to you to decide, but the Meta-World =/= The real world in which the murders are taking place.

The VN doesn't explain any of these also because they want you to think all this for yourself, if you say things like "magic is happening, how can all this possibly not be magic?" you've really stopped thinking and the enjoyment factor of this show will diminish. I said earlier it's okay to be anti-mystery but you have to also look from the anti-fantasy perspective too to know why there's an anti-fantasy side to it in the first place.

I posted something earlier that would help people understand Battler and the anti-fantasy side more. Read that and maybe you'll get a better understanding. If not then all I can say is this anime is not for you and you should just drop it now. We've done our best to explain some of the mindscrewing you guys are getting.

HaiShangSep 3, 2009 3:26 PM

Sep 3, 2009 3:28 PM

#54

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There are other ways to explain what's happening without them being delusions of the characters. You just have to think outside the box

It'll eventually be explained in the anime but it's something you can think of yourself.

Trying to approach Umineko with a Higurashi mindset that false = delusion is the wrong state of mind. Umineko is not Higurashi.

Sep 3, 2009 3:37 PM

#55

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MarthX said:
There are other ways to explain what's happening without them being delusions of the characters. You just have to think outside the box

It'll eventually be explained in the anime but it's something you can think of yourself.

Trying to approach Umineko with a Higurashi mindset that false = delusion is the wrong state of mind. Umineko is not Higurashi.

Some people have already accepted that fact, but some are still not accepting the kind of mystery they're being shown. They want everything presented to be clear cut with no possible underlying themes or no possible falsified evidence. They're just being stubborn really, they're just not use to this kind of story because it's something they've never seen before. But I'll just wait and see what they think after EP3 is over with.

Sep 3, 2009 3:40 PM

#56

vinesage

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Frostwake said:
Meh you people keep missing the point....

But currently, if its true that theres no magic, they are making 100% use of a point of view of some character that is hallucinating and seeing things that arent there

But not here, the fact that we see goats and daggers and golden butterflies and teleporting beatrices means that either there is magic, or someones having big time hallucinations, which is as overplayed as it gets

you are still missing the point. It is not hallucination and it is not magic. But how is that possible? quoting myself:

vinesage said:
you should see the story this way:

After you experienced some very extraordinary events of murders, you found yourself waking up one day only to be told that everyone else you met during those events is killed. And the person who is telling you the story is trying to convince you that they were all killed by magic, not by human hands. Do you believe it? No? But that person is going to prove you it was magic by retelling the whole events again, only where those parts you didnt know about (because you weren't there etc), he makes up a magic story for it, which only sounds very convincing. Do you believe it at once without thinking about it? (thats what you are doing :P )

But of course, there is indeed hole in this kind of interpretation: where did that story-telling-person come from? and how did she/he know about the events?

PS: I didnt read any spoiler or visual-novel of any kind, so any speculation, interpretation I am making is solely based on the anime.

PSS: and why do you think it is not a "detective" show?
In the regular "detective" shows, you have "dark parts" where you dont know what happened there but you know the result of all events: somebody died! And you tried to figure out what really happened in those "dark parts" by combining the hints with your cunningness.
In this show, however, you do as well have "dark parts" and hints, only these "dark parts" aren't so "dark", they are all covered up by magic! :D

so it is afterall still a "detective" show

vinesageSep 3, 2009 3:58 PM

Sep 3, 2009 3:49 PM

#57

Tribunus

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vinesage said:

vinesage said:
you should see the story this way:

After you experienced some very extraordinary events of murders, you found yourself waking up one day only to be told that everyone else you met during those events is killed. And the person who is telling you the story is trying to convince you that they were all killed by magic, not by human hands. Do you believe it? No? But that person is going to prove you it was magic by retelling the whole events again, only where those parts you didnt know about (because you weren't there etc), he makes up a magic story for it, which only sounds very convincing. Do you believe it at once without thinking about it? (thats what you are doing :P )

But of course, there is indeed hole in this kind of interpretation: where did that story-telling-person come from? and how did she/he know about the events?

PS: I didnt read any spoiler or visual-novel of any kind, so any speculation, interpretation I am making is solely based on the anime.

Beatrice (the meta one), she is an observer and I think that everything happens in the gameboard is shown to us (and meta-Battler) by her.

Sep 3, 2009 4:02 PM

#58

vinesage

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4saken_762 said:
Beatrice (the meta one), she is an observer and I think that everything happens in the gameboard is shown to us (and meta-Battler) by her.

that is the same as saying magic exists...doesn't necessarily seem to be the best explanation, though it might be the ultimate one if there is really none others

Sep 3, 2009 4:04 PM

#59

Shancakeschan

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hmmmmmmmmm. Nothing really to say.

Im ready for the next episode.

Sep 3, 2009 4:13 PM

#60

hirahira

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PsychFreak said:
Some people interpret it as the afterlife but it's up to you to decide

Here is something from an interview with Ryukishi that doesn't really spoil anything

Sep 3, 2009 4:15 PM

#61

Tribunus

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vinesage said:

4saken_762 said:
Beatrice (the meta one), she is an observer and I think that everything happens in the gameboard is shown to us (and meta-Battler) by her.

that is the same as saying magic exists...doesn't necessarily seem to be the best explanation, though it might be the ultimate one if there is really none others

I don't think so, the point is about whether magic exists within the gameboard. The existence of meta-Beatrice and her magic-like power is quite obvious.

Sep 3, 2009 4:19 PM

#62

Wattson

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With all the debating going on I guess I will give my own way of viewing the narrative of Umineko.

This is only my speculation and not in any way the only possible way to look at it.

Narrative of most stories:

world of the story <Narrative> viewer

The story exists in a world of its own and its the job of the narrative to relay the important events of that world to the viewer. In the majority of stories the narrative is omnipotent and tells things exactly as they happen in the world of the story.

Now for Umineko's narrative

World of Rokkenjima <1st Narrative> Meta-World <2nd Narrative> Viewer

What we are seeing is whats being told through the 2nd narrative which is an omnipotent narrative. However all we are shown through this narrative is the meta world. The 1st narrative relays what happens on Rokkenjima to the meta-world. However this narrative is not omnipotent. Its not entirely clear on what the 1st narrative is exactly but Ive always figured it as a narrative that is told by Beatrice.

Basically what I believe is that rather than it being the case of the viewer watching the events of Rokkenjima directly, we are actually seeing it indirectly through the meta-world.

Sep 3, 2009 4:19 PM

#63

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hirahira said:

PsychFreak said:
Some people interpret it as the afterlife but it's up to you to decide

Thanks I haven't read up to EP5 yet, only to EP4, but that really makes my point all the more better.

hirahira said:
Here is something from an interview with Ryukishi that doesn't really spoil anything

This is exactly what I was trying to point out. You have to understand both sides to understand the story. It's usually the people who are anti-mystery who are having trouble understanding the anti-fantasy side, I think people should take a look into this.

Sep 3, 2009 4:21 PM

#64

Denwa

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Apr 2009

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Gah, I too read spoilers for episode 5 , fuck me for doing that.

DenwaSep 3, 2009 4:26 PM

Sep 3, 2009 4:27 PM

#65

Hybrid00

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Manly tears when Gohda died. Dammit.

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Sep 3, 2009 4:30 PM

#66

Elika

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Feb 2009

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Batter's crying scene was good. The little kiss on the cheek was cute. ^^

GOHDA. Him and his crazy butterfly-repelling jacket.

Beelzebub's seiyuu sounds pretty good too... from like the two lines we heard, lol.

Also:

Sep 3, 2009 4:37 PM

#67

Monad

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Monad said:
Ok after watching 9 episodes am quite surprise not many people see what i saw.
If we accept the point of view of Battler, that the crimes are made by a human and there isn't some crazy scenario where lot's and different people kill each time and if the criminal is between the 18 then the biggest suspect with the evidence we have until now is Rosa.
As i see it from what i saw until now Rosa along with probably the cooperation of Genji(still thinking on that).

The biggest thing that incriminates her is that she was in the chapel in the night at the end of episode 7 and the next morning all the others were dead. The key was in the letter that her daughter had so it would have been easy for her to take it. And how convenient that the witch only gives letter to her and her daughter in person until now. It also explains how a nine year old knows all those magic staff and her head is full of witches. It's simple, it's because her mother filled her head with all that.
Rosa seems to suffer from strange personality syndrome or change of attitude and when Maria sees her like that she believes that it's not her mother but Beatrice. Do you remember when Maria said "It wasn't you it was the bad witch?"

Also turn your attention at the first circle when Jessica was asking George. "Isn't Maria acting strange? I know she likes witches but her mother died." Simply Maria was fine because she knew her mother wasn't dead. Or when Maria got the umbrella on the garden from Beatrice. The only person that was outside before they all found her was Rosa.
All this explain also how Maria doesn't get killed. Like the scene were Beatrice told her to face the wall and sing.
Also there is the candy seen. Beatrice told Maria to close her eyes and made the candy new again. Well the only way a human can do this is by replacing it with a new one. And who bought those candies and could have a few on her. Yes you guessed right. Rosa.
In the first circle it was also establish that Kanon murder made everyone believe in a ninetieth person because no one of them could have do it. A supposed dead person could move easily.

Now all this are just conclusions from what i have seen until now. Things might change.
For me the people that are certainly innocent until now are: Kanon, Rudolf, Jessica, Eva, Natsuhi, Kyrie, Hideyoshi and Krauss. This people look to be completely innocent.

This is what i wrote last time and still nothing seems to disapprove them so am still thinking of this.

Sep 3, 2009 4:51 PM

#68

orangehouse

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man .. that was dangerous

how are they going to escape

Sep 3, 2009 5:11 PM

#69

noteDhero

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Monad said:

This is what i wrote last time and still nothing seems to disapprove them so am still thinking of this.

So then she faked her death during the real murders and continued to pick everyone off that way?

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Sep 3, 2009 5:18 PM

#70

Strawberrymilk

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I found Beatrice's laughing quite annoying this episode but other than that I really enjoyed it. The series is starting to get reall interesting for me again.

Oh and I also laughed while he was trying and failing at locking the door.

Sep 3, 2009 5:22 PM

#71

vinesage

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noteDhero said:

Monad said:

This is what i wrote last time and still nothing seems to disapprove them so am still thinking of this.

So then she faked her death during the real murders and continued to pick everyone off that way?

exact the same way I suspected it, glad to read people came to same conclusion like me :-)

for me Genji is definitely on her side, but still not 100% sure about Shanon. she might not know Rosa is the mastermind.

Sep 3, 2009 5:35 PM

#72

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god, this anime is awful

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Sep 3, 2009 5:58 PM

#73

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Cool story, bro.

Sep 3, 2009 6:04 PM

#74

Dayan

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another good episode. the only think i hate in this anime is how every episode ends when it gets reaaaally good. the scene between battler and maria was cute. did i ever mention that i really hate rosa-sama??

Sep 3, 2009 6:07 PM

#75

Nate2k90

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Man This Is Gettin Goooood cant wait for the next episode!!!!

Sep 3, 2009 6:10 PM

#76

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Metroid_Ex said:
god, this anime is awful

That was a very useful post, you gave a very nice explanation on why this anime is so awful.

Dayan said:
another good episode. the only think i hate in this anime is how every episode ends when it gets reaaaally good.

That madam is what you call cliffhangers, not saying you didn't know that but it's a good plot device.

HaiShangSep 3, 2009 6:14 PM

Sep 3, 2009 6:12 PM

#77

Dayan

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Dec 2007

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Monad said:

This is what i wrote last time and still nothing seems to disapprove them so am still thinking of this.

yeah, i haven't thought about it, but i guess it fits, at leats i agrre almost with everything you said except the part when you said that maria thinks that when rosa gets angry and half mad , it's actually beatrice. i disagree with that because everytime she sees or hears about beatrice she really gets overjoyed, so maybe it is another witch...

PsychFreak said:

That madam is what you call cliffhangers, not saying you didn't know that but it's a good plot device.

yeah, i actully knew, i also know it is a good plot device but it makes me want to see more... i get curious, that's why it annoys me, but i understand the use of cliffhangers. =)

DayanSep 3, 2009 6:22 PM

Sep 3, 2009 6:13 PM

#78

Vizard

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Battler finally believes.

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Sep 3, 2009 6:29 PM

#79

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1962

PsychFreak said:

Metroid_Ex said:
god, this anime is awful

That was a very useful post, you gave a very nice explanation on why this anime is so awful.

I'd rather not take time to compare this shit with the worst movies to ever grace the sci-fi channel.

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Sep 3, 2009 6:39 PM

#80

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Metroid_Ex said:

PsychFreak said:

Metroid_Ex said:
god, this anime is awful

That was a very useful post, you gave a very nice explanation on why this anime is so awful.

I'd rather not take time to compare this shit with the worst movies to ever grace the sci-fi channel.

Well I'm afraid I won't be able to help you in trying to understand this. If you truly think it's awful no matter what is being presented to you or what some of us are trying to do to let you understand this anime, all I can is two words:

Sep 3, 2009 6:40 PM

#81

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528

You're missing the point that the fantasy scenes are supposed to be ridiculous. They're ridiculous because they're false. Remember how the first episode of Haruhi season one was bad? It was bad on purpose. If you don't like the fantasy scenes then spend your time thinking how everything could be done if you took out the fantasy elements.

Sep 3, 2009 6:43 PM

#82

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1962

PsychFreak said:

Metroid_Ex said:

PsychFreak said:

Metroid_Ex said:
god, this anime is awful

That was a very useful post, you gave a very nice explanation on why this anime is so awful.

I'd rather not take time to compare this shit with the worst movies to ever grace the sci-fi channel.

Well I'm afraid I won't be able to help you in trying to understand this. If you truly think it's awful no matter what is being presented to you or what some of us are trying to do to let you understand this anime, all I can is two words:

now why would I drop something that so bad its entertaining. Seriously, I watching it for the same reason as CG:R2 I wanna see how much worse it will get.

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Sep 3, 2009 6:51 PM

#83

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1962

MarthX said:
You're missing the point that the fantasy scenes are supposed to be ridiculous. They're ridiculous because they're false.

oh, so are we gonna spoil shit now, even if its whhat I already suspected. You don't seem to see the main problem with this piece of shit and that is the god awful characters and how inconstant they are.

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Sep 3, 2009 6:54 PM

#84

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528

That's not a spoiler. It should be obvious that they are. Otherwise there's no mystery and Umineko is a mystery show.

I don't see how you can think the characters are inconstant though.

If you mean how Battler suddenly accepted the witch. That's because he doesn't want to suspect anyone. He's tired of all the mistrust and accusations.

Sep 3, 2009 6:56 PM

#85

hirahira

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The anime does do a pretty bad job with the characters

Sep 3, 2009 6:56 PM

#86

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MarthX said:
I don't see how you can think the characters are inconsistent though.

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Sep 3, 2009 6:57 PM

#87

Dayan

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i also don't think characters are inconsistet. And umineko is all about the mystery, what is fun in it is trying to understand what makes some of those things possible just like battler's trying to do.
no one is spoiling anyone saying that, i think it's pretty obvious.

Sep 3, 2009 6:58 PM

#88

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Metroid_Ex said:

MarthX said:
I don't see how you can think the characters are inconsistent though.

Easy to mistake words. So sue me.

Sep 3, 2009 7:00 PM

#89

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The characters in the show aren't as well developed at this point as they were in the VN. But I don't think this reason alone makes this anime awful.

Sep 3, 2009 7:01 PM

#90

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I bet any notion you have that the characters are inconstant is a misunderstanding on your part.

If you mean how Battler suddenly accepted the witch. That's because he doesn't want to suspect anyone. He's tired of all the mistrust and accusations.

The anime doesn't go as far to directly say that but it makes it obvious.

Sep 3, 2009 7:10 PM

#91

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MarthX said:
I bet any notion you have that the characters are inconstant is a misunderstanding on your part.

If you mean how Battler suddenly accepted the witch. That's because he doesn't want to suspect anyone. He's tired of all the mistrust and accusations.

The anime doesn't go as far to directly say that but it makes it obvious.

Many can probably see that but the anime is really not doing a good job in explaining these things, it makes it hard for the people who want everything served on the platter for them difficult in terms of understanding the characters. Many people hate Battler because of this, they really don't understand what's going on in his head and it makes it hard for them to enjoy this anime when they think the protagonist is a dimwit.

I'm gonna repost this again without spoilers so some people can understand him.

Battler Ushiromiya said:
I speak as a young detective first and foremost. You'll never find a magic present within our reality, it's unreasonable to expect a witch to magically murder people, and it’s unreasonable to expect ANYONE to believe magic was the cause. But I think any woman posing as a witch (or anyone else for that mater) to prove magic is behind all of a murder mystery deserves at least some respect; there are more opportunities to trick people into thinking it's magic, so you're fooling gullible people and turning them into hamburgers literally all the time. On top of that, believing magic is more of a temptation to us because it can have a profound effect on the ignorant mind, especially if after a long murder mystery game in which you think it’s over, you become the Golden Sorcerer.

So in many ways it's not just unreasonable realistically, it's scientifically unreasonable too and it's being unreasonable to any person who denies there is such thing as magic because you're not going to be able to convince them that effectively because you've been hung up on outdated ideas of magic. There are still good deal of intelligent beings who can prove to you magic does not exist, there are even good witch impersonators that despite trying to prove magic is real, they fall through the cracks among the magic-fanatics (everyone makes mistakes, don't be so be so blind to hold such characters in high regard), so go out there and investigate, solve the puzzle yourself and maybe you can solve a murder mystery! I'm just trying to help you guys you know. Because I too know what it's like to believe in magic (I was trolled numerous times by Beato as well as others until I disproved all evidence that magic was behind this, let alone magic exists).

Oh well, maybe you'll ignore and flame me, but Battler Ushiromiya here, signing out.

Sep 3, 2009 7:11 PM

#92

Rogna

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hirahira said:

MarthX said:
A shame the You are incompetent line was cut though.

it really is a shame. I was so sure that they would keep that line. And it would make all the Battler haters happy.

Gohda is so funny. Beelzebub's voice is even more annoying than Asmo's but I guess it doesn't matter since she won't be in it much.

I'm still really suspicious of George for this arc.

The guy stays so calm even after his parents were killed in the first arc. :|

I still regard Nanjo, and Kuma as accomplices along the lines aswell.

Overall I enjoyed this episode much ore than the last 2, which puts my hopes up for Banquet to have a good adaption.

Sep 3, 2009 7:15 PM

#93

Denwa

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Metroid_Ex said:

PsychFreak said:

Metroid_Ex said:
god, this anime is awful

That was a very useful post, you gave a very nice explanation on why this anime is so awful.

I'd rather not take time to compare this shit with the worst movies to ever grace the sci-fi channel.

Bitch, please. This anime does suck, but the VN is gold. God dammit, I'm trying so hard not to spoil anything in these threads with "LOL MAGIC" and "THIS ANIME IS CRAPS" everywhere.

Sep 3, 2009 7:17 PM

#94

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528

PsychFreak said:

MarthX said:
I bet any notion you have that the characters are inconstant is a misunderstanding on your part.

If you mean how Battler suddenly accepted the witch. That's because he doesn't want to suspect anyone. He's tired of all the mistrust and accusations.

The anime doesn't go as far to directly say that but it makes it obvious.

Many can probably see that but the anime is really not doing a good job in explaining these things, it makes it hard for the people who want everything served on the platter for them difficult in terms of understanding the characters. Many people hate Battler because of this, they really don't understand what's going on in his head and it makes it hard for them to enjoy this anime when they think the protagonist is a dimwit.

Umineko is a thinking series though. It shouldn't have to explain everything to such detail as the VN, as long as it makes it obvious enough that someone who actually thinks could figure it out.

I'm tired of having to explain things. Does nobody think for themselves? Do they need the anime to hold their hand and thoroughly explain everything? Maybe I should just accept that Umineko is too deep for most people. An elitist attitude that I normally detest but it seems to be the case.

Sep 3, 2009 7:22 PM

#95

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1962

MarthX said:

PsychFreak said:

MarthX said:
I bet any notion you have that the characters are inconstant is a misunderstanding on your part.

If you mean how Battler suddenly accepted the witch. That's because he doesn't want to suspect anyone. He's tired of all the mistrust and accusations.

The anime doesn't go as far to directly say that but it makes it obvious.

Many can probably see that but the anime is really not doing a good job in explaining these things, it makes it hard for the people who want everything served on the platter for them difficult in terms of understanding the characters. Many people hate Battler because of this, they really don't understand what's going on in his head and it makes it hard for them to enjoy this anime when they think the protagonist is a dimwit.

Umineko is a thinking series though. It shouldn't have to explain everything to such detail as the VN, as long as it makes it obvious enough that someone who actually thinks could figure it out.

I'm tired of having to explain things. Does nobody think for themselves? Do they need the anime to hold their hand and thoroughly explain everything? Maybe I should just accept that Umineko is too deep for most people. An elitist attitude that I normally detest but it seems to be the case.

deep, deep you say. If you want to watch something deep go watch Kino's Journey. This anime is not deep at all.

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Sep 3, 2009 7:25 PM

#96

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MarthX said:

PsychFreak said:

MarthX said:
I bet any notion you have that the characters are inconstant is a misunderstanding on your part.

If you mean how Battler suddenly accepted the witch. That's because he doesn't want to suspect anyone. He's tired of all the mistrust and accusations.

The anime doesn't go as far to directly say that but it makes it obvious.

Many can probably see that but the anime is really not doing a good job in explaining these things, it makes it hard for the people who want everything served on the platter for them difficult in terms of understanding the characters. Many people hate Battler because of this, they really don't understand what's going on in his head and it makes it hard for them to enjoy this anime when they think the protagonist is a dimwit.

Umineko is a thinking series though. It shouldn't have to explain everything to such detail as the VN, as long as it makes it obvious enough that someone who actually thinks could figure it out.

I'm tired of having to explain things. Does nobody think for themselves? Do they need the anime to hold their hand and thoroughly explain everything? Maybe I should just accept that Umineko is too deep for most people. An elitist attitude that I normally detest but it seems to be the case.

That's right but some people really just wants everything explained to them. I'm only doing it because I realize they won't enjoy it no other way because maybe they don't like to think.

I think what Metroid_Ex was hitting on was how shallow the characters are, you don't suppose to think of what some of these characters are like since they're suppose to be at least a little understanble at some point in the series. But some of these characters really seem out of place and lost and you just don't know what's going on in there head as far as the anime goes. Mainly Battler, he seems somewhat different here in the anime than in the VN.

Sep 3, 2009 7:25 PM

#97

Offline

Jun 2007

528

Metroid_Ex said:

MarthX said:

PsychFreak said:

MarthX said:
I bet any notion you have that the characters are inconstant is a misunderstanding on your part.

If you mean how Battler suddenly accepted the witch. That's because he doesn't want to suspect anyone. He's tired of all the mistrust and accusations.

The anime doesn't go as far to directly say that but it makes it obvious.

Many can probably see that but the anime is really not doing a good job in explaining these things, it makes it hard for the people who want everything served on the platter for them difficult in terms of understanding the characters. Many people hate Battler because of this, they really don't understand what's going on in his head and it makes it hard for them to enjoy this anime when they think the protagonist is a dimwit.

Umineko is a thinking series though. It shouldn't have to explain everything to such detail as the VN, as long as it makes it obvious enough that someone who actually thinks could figure it out.

I'm tired of having to explain things. Does nobody think for themselves? Do they need the anime to hold their hand and thoroughly explain everything? Maybe I should just accept that Umineko is too deep for most people. An elitist attitude that I normally detest but it seems to be the case.

deep, deep you say. If you want to watch something deep go watch Kino's Journey. This anime is not deep at all.

Says someone who fails to understand basic concepts.

Sep 3, 2009 7:27 PM

#98

z2000

Offline

Sep 2008

43

Denwa said:

Metroid_Ex said:

PsychFreak said:

Metroid_Ex said:
god, this anime is awful

That was a very useful post, you gave a very nice explanation on why this anime is so awful.

I'd rather not take time to compare this shit with the worst movies to ever grace the sci-fi channel.

Bitch, please. This anime does suck, but the VN is gold.

This.

But really. Battler's entire thinking process at this point is immature. He still wants another person outside of the family causing the murders, because he doesn't want to look at his own blood in a disgusting way, like Rudolph, Krauss, Eva, and Rosa do.

Thinking in such an immature way, no wonder anime-only viewers believe Battler is an idiot. Cause srsly gaiz, most of Battler's badassery at this point of the story is usually not spoken. And DEEN just really likes to not show Battler's thinking process unless he's explaining to his cousins or something, and when he does that... they're usually weak.

But yes people, think. If you're going with anti-mystery, then back it up with more than "look at the sword fights" or "look at the stakes" or "kanon's body disapearing from the floor!" and etc. If you're going with anti-fantasy, back it up with more than "the corpses are faked!" or "the person with the gun did it!" and etc.

Btw, Umineko is deep. Frankly, so is Kino's Journey, on a bigger scale. And the novels are better. For both of them.

Sep 3, 2009 7:32 PM

#99