| I went ahead and added Sir Integra Hellsing, since I didn't hear any objections and we'd had that conversation sometime back, but if somebody does have strong objections, we can talk. |
mouchimochi said: has anyone watched ga-rei-zero? It has disabled and LGBT characters. I feel as though the ending was slightly problematic with the way it protayed both characters but over it had girls being leaders and fighting and being teen girls in love. Look at our relations 8D |
| I have no problems adding Integra, feel free to do so! As for Gunnm, I only saw some of it but I'm against adding it as well. I really don't think it's empowering, I think it's more along the lines of your typical 80's anime girls kicking ass- which while fun, are not necessary female-positive. |
| I can see what Earwen is saying about the Gunnm OVA. So the female characters seem more externally motivated than the male characters. Gally's also really innocent. So I can see why Gunnm wouldn't be considered empowering. Good movie though. |
| Cibo, from BLAME! |
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| Okay I apologize I was confusing Gunnm with Gun Buster. I did actually read quite a bit of Battle Angel Alita (which is the name I know it by) like 15 years ago and I remember enjoying it, but I do not remember if it was empowering or not. I kinda want to lean towards 'no'. I think it was more along the lines of "we have a female lead because they're more fun to draw". I also think in that time period female action leads in male-oriented anime/manga were a bit more common than now (percentage wise). |
Amberleh said: I think it was more along the lines of "we have a female lead because they're more fun to draw". I also think in that time period female action leads in male-oriented anime/manga were a bit more common than now (percentage wise). Why should that matter? It's the character that counts, not the possible motivation behind creating it. You could say that Motoko Kusanagi was created for fanservice and she's still an amazing character. |
| I don't think it was the case of a female character being more fun to draw, at least in the case of the OVA. I can't speak to the manga. The women are more motivated by relationships and men by money, dreams, career, so it definitely acknowledges her femininity, whether negatively or positively. Her gender isn't incidental. |
| Hey do you think Revy from Black Lagoon could be added. I think she is one of anime's most badass characters and is understanding. I would even suggest the anime on here because the women are strong and independant in their own rights but I wont due to the twins(if you have seen s2 you would know why) But back to Revy. Here are my reasons why. 1.Her backstory:She went through some of the most tramic shit ever especially at a young age. The memories do haunt her but she still moves foward.2. She is the badass of Black Lagoon. Im not even joking when I say she is killing breadwinner she has do the killing but she can do it like its a chore . Now in a way she enjoys it but she has admit she dose regret. 3. She makes Rock relise more. She makes him relise as to how the world is and because of her he devolps somewhat out of scared ,worried, business persona and made him relise he wants to part of Black Lagoon. 4. She is about the opposite of almost every shoujo girl. Now Im not bashing shoujo infact I love it but it can get boring after seeing the same old girl from time and time again but in different roles. Here Revy smashes that. She is different and unique. She can stand on her own and not back out on her world. She can make the smart at times dumb and think. Now these are my thoughts plus I haven't read the manga yet because Im broke. But what do you think? |
| Revy was mentioned previously but we decided not to add her because apparently she gets blushy around some guy or acts differently. I haven't watched it yet though so I am not sure. |
Amberleh said: Revy was mentioned previously but we decided not to add her because apparently she gets blushy around some guy or acts differently. I haven't watched it yet though so I am not sure. I'm not sure if that's a good enough reason, though I didn't watch it myself either. |
| She dose love a guy but I dont recall her getting blushy unless you count the bar scene were they both have a drinking contest in the first episode. And she dose change too but Rock makes her relise her behavior like she made him relise hers. To be honest they both play off of each other and grow as charaters.Then again I still need to read the manga so maybe its different. But I can understand if you dont wanna add her. |
| Oh, I derailed things a bit talking about the OVA, sorry. But the manga sounds interesting if it focuses more in depth on Gally! (I almost thought Ido was the main character in the OVA.) I think I'll check it out! |
| The problem with the OAV is that there should have been so much more of it. But nobody's ever attempted to animate more of the manga, and the best we seem to have is James Cameron's vague interest in making a live action movie out of it. I still really liked it, and I've been meaning to get around to the manga.... |
| We could always just add the manga. |
| I watched Black Lagoon, I don't recall Revy getting blushy over anyone. Like what sleepydreamer said I remember her "blushing" during the drinking game, but that's due to the alcohol. Another scene that others say she was blushing is when she invited Rock to join their group but that is debatable because it was a sunset scene and it's really difficult to tell? Also nothing happened out of it. She resumed bossing him around afterwards. Even though Rock eventually affects Revy's personality development, her life doesn't revolve around him and the way they affect each other is not based on the romance but the difference of their views of the world around them because they lived such different lives. So I think Revy's character growth that Rock caused is not a point against feminism. I don't even consider them romantic. The romance (/sexual tension?) thing is very subtle. So I don't think that bit in particular could disqualify Revy and Black Lagoon. Regardless of that bit, I'm not sure if they belong to this list either. The reason I'm not sure if this anime can be described as "girl-positive" is because of all the violence in this anime; this being an anime about smugglers in a crime-filled city. However I feel like gender was not an issue in it? I mean anyone can be the boss of whichever badass group, but at the same time anyone can be the victim. A lot of the badass people in this anime are women though! (Sorry if this isn't much of a help, and please tell me if I'm not making any sense, I'm not a native English speaker, but I'll try to explain better next time; Also I'll look up "girl-positive" a little more and come back later with a verdict.) |
| JUSTINE MY PRINCESS ANGEL SUGAR CUP DUMPLING I LOVE YOU. Everyone Braverose is my daughter. Forgive my off topic ness. |
Amberleh said: Everyone Braverose is my daughter. If I am to trust MAL - which I know isn't exactly a reliable thing - she's a year younger than you. Would you care to explain yourself? *goes off to stalk Amber's Facebook, just in case* |
metamorphiusFeb 11, 2015 7:56 PM
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| Have anyone here read Oresama teacher? I'm reading it right now. It's another manga of the author of Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun. Do you think it could qualify for the list here? Mafuyu, the protagonist, is practically the strongest character and she protects and rescues guys a lot. Her teacher was kind of disturbing at first but around 30 chapter (after ninja appears) I think that manga gets much better character and plot-wise, and also its style gets more and more similar to that of Gekkan. |
| Oresama Teacher is on my ptr, did anyone else read it? I nominate Uninhabited Planet Survive. It's one of the few anime of its type to have a female lead. The group is evenly split between boys and girls (...if you count the robot cat). And the girls don't feel like the token female characters, they are part of the group like everyone else. |
| Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun. It's positive all around. Every girl has a different personality, but they're all strong female characters, and by strong I mean well written and great characters. |
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titandick said: Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun. It's already on the list :) |
| This is the third time Nozaki-kun is suggested :D |
| I just thought of a character....Ursula, from Kiki's Delivery Service. She's an artist living on her own and pursuing a dream, and she and Kiki have a really nice relationship; she's basically the impetus for Kiki getting her abilities back, when she tells her "people need to find their own inspiration". Anyway, I'd like to add her if people don't object. |
| You can add her, though the movie itself is already on the list. Pretty much all Miyazaki fits on the list except Porco Rosso. |
GChan said: And thank you to the mention of Oresama Teacher. I need to read that. *LOVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED Nozaki-kun. Yes, read it. Mafuyu is amazing. |
| Did we mention Arete Hime and Kaguya Hime? Really awsome movies. |
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| Maybe this suggestion is polemic but I think some of Blade of the Immortal characters are truly inspiring. Blade of the Immortal is set on pre-Meiji Japan (can't remember the exact date) and most of the characters are one way or another outcasts. Having all that in account is not strange if many of the female characters suffer violence or sexual violence at one point or another. I know that is a great turn-off but two of the main characters (Makie and Hyakurin) overcome all of it. Makie first appears as a prostitute that fights the protagonist ending in a draw later is known she's the best sword fighter of Japan but because of her father disowning her because she is not a man, she ends up wandering the country and helping the main antagonist which is her childhood friends and truly admires her . She is a well constructed and deep character even thought she's kind of mentally ill because of her background and I think she's a great example of how society can be unfair even with the best of us. On the other side, Hyakurin is a government agent and is shown as a master of disguise and a great fighter. She has a tragic background story too -like most of the manga characters- and she can help herself with no help from others. She's calm and good at taking quick decisions and I think she would be a good add to the list. |
| If it has solution, don't bother; and if it hasn't, why bothering? Do you like manga? http://gunjoteam.com |
| I din't like the movie much, but I'm all for adding Arete Hime. |
| How about Oniisama E...? Strongly female cast, a great variety of female characters. I've heard mention that the creators of RGU drew some inspiration from it, but that's just secondhand info |
| I concur with UnoPuntoCinco about adding Solanin, unless it's been shot down somewhere else already. |
| I believe Kino no Tabi should be added. Watching it now. The main char is a girl who dresses in a gender-neutral manner and doesn't care what gender people think she is. I think there are many other feminist undertones. The largest one is an episode of how a young girl was an inventor of the first flying machine. It was very well shown how everyone treated her, for example, when her fiance tried to stop her "silly hobby" he told her that he just wants her to be "a normal wife". Some would argue that the anime isn't feminist, because Kino could be a boy, that inventor could be male, etc., without damage to the story. Maybe, but the author of novels chose to make them girls for a reason. I think the anime is as feminist as they get. |
a-naoto-fanJun 2, 2015 11:46 AM
| Agreed with Kino no Tabi. I think Kino herself is already on the character list, bu the anime should be added too. |
| Done. I'm for it, also. |
| I'd say Olivier Armstrong (from Fullmetal Alchemist) should be on the list, for many of the same reasons as Satsuki Kiryuuin is. She's probably the most literal I've seen the phrase "STRONG female character" taken, aside from Sakura Oogami, who is an outlier should not have been counted. (just a meme reference, of course Oogami should be counted) |
103rdWhatever said: I'd say Olivier Armstrong (from Fullmetal Alchemist) should be on the list, for many of the same reasons as Satsuki Kiryuuin is. She's probably the most literal I've seen the phrase "STRONG female character" taken, aside from Sakura Oogami, who is an outlier should not have been counted. (just a meme reference, of course Oogami should be counted) I agree with that. And if we're going to add FMA characters, I think Izumi Curtis is a great character too. |
| If it has solution, don't bother; and if it hasn't, why bothering? Do you like manga? http://gunjoteam.com |
| I think the anime Aikatsu is very girl positive. It portrays girls working hard towards achieving their dreams. Even if they struggle, they always help each other out and never give up on their dream. It also teaches other important values. |
| I'd like to suggest Shirobako. At the beginning I've expected a lot of moe (and tacky high school donut promise wasn't helping), but it turned out to be a quite mature and informative story about women pursuing their dreams in anime industry. |
| Perfect Blue is good. It passes the Bechdel test with flying colors and overall the focus is on the feelings and thoughts of the heroine all the time. It's a rare movie that shows sexual objectification without making the heroine sexually objectified. She has to do "mature stuff" that others tell her to do for her new job as an actress and she suffers from that. As someone who is always bothered by elements of nudity, I wasn't bothered even one bit this time. It wasn't fanservice. There is a rape scene, but a fake one (she was told to play a role on her job), and it is very meaningful for the heroine. It's not something to motivate someone else. |
Steppenfuchs said: I'd like to suggest Shirobako. At the beginning I've expected a lot of moe (and tacky high school donut promise wasn't helping), but it turned out to be a quite mature and informative story about women pursuing their dreams in anime industry. I thought of Shirobako earlier, also. I avoided it at first because I thought it might be K-On! but with animators...that wasn't really the case, luckily. It does seem to address some issues of sexism within the industry, if subtly (i.e. that some of the male staff goof off with few consequences, that one asshole who talks down to the main character), and the show is ultimately about the main characters and their dreams. The show affords them a lot of respect for struggling towards said dreams, and it doesn't focus on the male characters at their expense (although Aoi does get a lot more attention than do her classmates). |
Ginevra said: Perfect Blue is good. It passes the Bechdel test with flying colors and overall the focus is on the feelings and thoughts of the heroine all the time. It's a rare movie that shows sexual objectification without making the heroine sexually objectified. She has to do "mature stuff" that others tell her to do for her new job as an actress and she suffers from that. As someone who is always bothered by elements of nudity, I wasn't bothered even one bit this time. It wasn't fanservice. There is a rape scene, but a fake one (she was told to play a role on her job), and it is very meaningful for the heroine. It's not something to motivate someone else. I like Perfect Blue but I'm going to have to adamantly say NO WAY to it being on our relations. It's not empowering and it's got triggers up the wazoo. It is an EXCELLENT, AMAZING, FANTASTIC movie, but in no way is it 'feminist' or really 'girl positive'. |
| Ok, sure! It really doesn't have any feminist messages for its viewers. I was just so overwhelmed to see an anime movie in which nudity was not for pandering purposes. I swear I've never seen that before. That said, Kino no Tabi first movie, Life Goes On, does have a feminist message. It's a story of Kino's past. She's living with her female teacher who teaches her to shoot and defend herself and who respects her wishes and choices despite Kino being a child. There are lots of people asking for her teacher's help, but she declines, and I won't spoil what they're asking for. The story explains why Kino decided to adopt an adrogynous look. Too bad this short movie isn't really on par with Kino's Journey series per se. It isn't bad, it just doesn't have the metaphorically philosophical style to it and biographical instead. |
| Could we add Teppu to the manga list? It's basically a sports manga with mainly female cast doing mixed martial arts. All the characters are drawn with realistic muscle proportions with absolutely no fanservice. They have complex personalities and relationships, particularly the main character Natsuo. She's a breath of fresh air to me. She's kind of a jerk compared to most happy go lucky protags, but with enough depth of character to be realistic and relatable. There's no romance, but you could make a strong case for a love-hate relationship between Natsuo and Yuzuko ;) Another notable thing in Teppu is how femininity and masculinity are a non issue. I feel like there's a lot of series that celebrate very feminine girls (which is great because all types of girls are awesome) but few that allow their girls to be traditionally masculine without making a big deal out of it or making it seem like the "masculine traits" are worth more. Natsuo never puts down girls who would rather do girly things than martial arts nor does anyone else nag her for not acting "ladylike". I admit I haven't finished it yet so if anyone wants to refute this, they're welcome to, but I do think this is a feminist manga! |
| "Listen up, I don’t care what you punks do around the universe. But with this, my sword … anywhere it can reach, is part of my country! Asses who blunder in and violate my things … whether it be a Shogun, whether it be space pirates, whether it be a meteorite, I’ll destroy them!" - Sakata Gintoki (Gintama) |
| Teppu is on my ptr. Any other opinions on it? |
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