| It was made very clear throughout the show that D-mails can only contain 36 bytes. That's like 1 sentence, which isn't quite enough to tell Okabe the grand plan :P Yes Daru was alive, he was the one who finished the Time Machine in 2036. Kurisu wasn't, that's the whole point :D she dies in 2010. In the very first world line Okabe arrives in Beta (the one Suzuha comes back to), Future-Okabe didn't have a plan to save Kurisu. He didn't even think about time machines until it was too late and WW3 came, so all he had time for was start working on a time machine with Daru and send back Suzuha. Why? In order to buy himself time. He wanted himself (his past self) to know about WW3, and by failing to save Kurisu once, have the motivation to immediately start working on a solution to prevent WW3 and if possible, save Kurisu. The Okabe you see in the video mail is actually the future version of the Okabe who failed to save Kurisu once. He isn't the same that first sent back Suzuha. This is because when a world line shift happens (it happened when Suzuha and Okabe came back to the present the first time after failing once), the past, present and future of the whole world changes at once, according to the cause. So the future-Okabe also changed. And finally, why the video mail? This is basically answered by what I said so far. The Okabe who actually worked out the plan was the future version of the Okabe who failed once. That Okabe couldn't tell Daru or anyone because Suzuha was already sent back in time, she wasn't sent back 2 times, she could not deliver the message because she couldn't know about it. So Okabe used the only option, to send back a video message, which was done with the all-new Microwave Ophone (or whatever he called this new one) which was upgraded since 2010 and was now capable to send even a video message, not just 36 bytes. Hope I answered all your questions :) |
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fendosendo said: He technically could, be making a new Microwave Ophone which could go above the 36 bytes limit was probably a much easier and much safer plan then sending back like 20 D-mails if not more.Couldn't he just send a bunch of D-mails or would that cause a problem? I Remember a point in the show okabe sent too many D-mails and had to undo them all would that apply here? fendosendo said: When he first came back he was alright with the situation. He already sacrificed Kurisu to be able to come back to the Beta world line. He trashed the Microwave immediately after, because he didn't want to mess with time ever again. He didn't even think it was possible to save Kurisu. Then 2015 and WW3 came and all hell went down. I'm not sure how long it lasted, but a very big chunk of the population died. Okabe realized what was the reason behind it (Kurisu and her thesis) and started working with Daru on the time machine to send back Suzuha so he could buy himself time. One of the reasons why Okabe couldn't come up with a plan yet was because he didn't know anything about the circumstances of Kurisu's death. Remember, all he knew was that she died, that's all he witnessed in the first episode, but didn't even know it was her father. It would have been hard to come up with a foolproof plan without knowing pretty much anything.Why wouldn't he be interested in time machines doesn't he want to save kurisu's life? Okabe dies in 2025 according to what I've read and WWIII occurs in 2015. I just assumed since okabe had so much time to come up with a solution he came up with one but preferred to use a video mail rather than just telling daru or sending multiple D-mails which would've been easier. I thought he was spending most of that time perfecting the Video-mail and already had the solution. All he had to figure out was that he had to fake her death and use the metal upa for the thesis, he had years for that. How do you know he didn't have a plan, was this in the VN or manga or something? So he only sent back Suzuha, but instructed her about the video mail, because he knew (or more like expected) his past-self would make a new microwave with the real instructions. And the Okabe who failed once did indeed make one, he probably started working on that and the plan immediately after failing, so since 2010. And this Okabe knew about how Kurisu died, he knew about Nakabachi and the Upa, so he could make a plan. fendosendo said: Like I said just above, it was the first Okabe (the one who first arrived in the Beta world line) who sent back Suzuha. And that Okabe didn't have a plan yet, so he couldn't tell Suzuha. The new future-Okabe (the one in the video mail) knew about it, but he sent the video mail in 2025 instead of telling Daru, because he would have no reason to send back Suzuha again (another Suzuha), when she was already in the "present". Sending the video mail was a much better and easier idea than fucking up the timeline by having 2 Suzuhas in the present :PWhat do you mean suzuha was already sent back? You said Daru completed the time machine in 2036 so it would've been possible to tell daru to tell suzuha. I'm thinking it was just easier for okabe to send the video mail rather than wait around. fendosendo said: The first future-Okabe planned for Okabe to fail once to see how Kurisu died and to make it even more painful for himself so he would kind of go mad and be so obsessed with saving Kurisu and preventing WW3 that it would be the only thing he thought about :SIn future okabe's video mail he tells okabe not to do things normally because of a paradox. That he should fake kurisu's death and use the metal upa for the thesis. He pointed out that all this was to prevent a paradox. How did future okabe know that past okabe was going to fail his first attempt? how did he know about the convergence point preventing him from triggering the paradox? The second future-Okabe (who failed once) of course knew about the paradox, because he already knew how Kurisu died, and how it was almost impossible to save her just like Mayuri without thinking up a plan and "fooling the world". |
RazielZeroDec 16, 2014 6:16 AM
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Huex3 said: It's actually detailed in the light novel series, Epigraph Trilogy. The trilogy focuses on the Okabe Rintarou of the Beta Attractor Field, world line divergence 1.129848%, after he first failed to save Makise Kurisu and gave up.. Well what we have here is a time travel story with multiple directions so even though it's actually a spin-off. I have no read it yet, but thats what it says in the description. I haven't read any other manga or light novel, only the original VN. The reason behind it is because I'm not sure how much it could be considered canon anyway. If it was not written by the same writer as the VN, then it could go wrong in many ways and could fuck up the already established rules and create plot holes (just like the movie did...). |
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| I might give them a try later :) I'll PM you later about the movie, I don't want to spam this thread with something other than the video mail question :P |
RazielZeroDec 17, 2014 8:39 AM
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| Basically what Huex said, but I would like to point out some differences, to clarify things. At any given time there is always only one world. There are no parallel worlds, this was said so by Suzuha when she explained who she is in the VN (I think this part of the explanation was left out in the anime). What there are, are merely "what ifs" or possibilities, but they don't exist parallel to our world, only one exists, and that one is always changing to another world line (so it basically morphs into a new world according to the D-mail, or the cause). Also, whenever a world line shift happens, the past, present and future of the whole world changes immediately according to the cause. So Future-Okabe is basically a projection of present-Okabe. It's like when you pick up a train and put it on a completely different track. The track is already there, you don't have to wait for it to be built. This is why when Okabe first arrived back in Beta (after deleting the final D-mail), the Future-Okabe was born as well. But this Future-Okabe is like what would have happen if Suzuha didn't arrive there and just sit around and WW3 came and he realized he has to prevent it, etc (just like Huex explained as well). This Future-Okabe didn't think about saving Kurisu, however, because he either thought it was not possible (like Mayuri) or didn't want to risk changing the world any further after all he has been through. He thought he could live in peace with Mayuri, now that the SERN dystopia was prevented with the price of Kurisu's life (the reason he sent the first D-mail). After WW3 he of course realized that this is not the outcome he wanted, to trade a dystopia for a world war, so he started working on the time machine. Yes, I'm not sure whether he planned on Present-Okabe possibly succeeding or just thought it was impossible to save Kurisu. I think he expected it to be impossible and since he didn't know anything about her death, he wasn't sure and therefore wanted to learn more about it, even if he risked failing to save her. So he sent back Suzuha. Now, when Present-Okabe failed and he and Suzuha travelled forward from the conference day to the present, the world line shifted. It was a very small change, but it was still different, therefore a new Future-Okabe was born again, as an Okabe who failed to save Kurisu once and lived on obsessively trying to work out a plan to save her until he came up with the faking plan and made the microwave capable of sending a video mail. Also, this Okabe Okabe didn't send back another Suzuha, because he knew that the Suzuha from the previous world line would still be in the present. |
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fendosendo said: Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying :) Normally if WW3 wouldn't have happened, then Okabe wouldn't have built a time machine in the beta world line, because he was already content with the things he has been through, that's why he trashed the microwave ophone soon after arriving in beta. He planned on living with pain of having to sacrifice Kurisu to arrive back here and live on with Mayuri not dying :(Are you saying okabe would have never built a time machine if wwIII never happened? Because in his video mail he said "Don't forget the three weeks and the world lines you experienced with kurisu that is the sole reason you want to save her and it's the sole reason i devoted my life to developing a time machine the reason you've managed to get as far as you have is that we both want to save makise" It would be best if you watched the the video mail again to better understand my question. That's pretty much what he says in the video mail it's almost an exact quote although i paraphrased some of it. I think he might have just changed his mind about makise even if no ww3 happened. Please clarify me if i am wrong, if okabe really did only make the time machine because of wwIII and if no wwIII occurred then okabe would never have made the time machine like you said, that he would never have changed his mind about saving makise? Also, don't forget that the quote comes from the 2nd Future-Okabe, who failed once. He only says that because he has already been through the pain of not being able to save Kurisu for the first time and been through 15 years of planning and thinking on a possibility to save Kurisu (which is the plan he gives to Okabe through the video mail). fendosendo said: I think they don't actually exist, like an alternate dimension or anything waiting for a change. It's only the world changing to a new form, which we call a new world line. So it's not like the world jumps to a new one, but rather it changes into the new one.I have been reading about the one world line thing you said. Is it more like there is an infinite number of possible world lines and every time okabe does something the world line changes to one of those possibilities that match the change? or is it more like a new world line is create every time and the old world line disappears? I'm leaning toward the former with the infinite possible worlds. Also, I'm gonna quote what Suzuha said in the VN: Kurisu: "These superpositioned world lines aren't parallel worlds, are they?" Suzuha: "No. At the very end, they're just possible worlds that exist simultaneously." fendosendo said: Most likely, because of Mayuri's case. Saving Mayuri was not possible in the whole Alpha Attractor Field (the Alpha world lines), and most of the deaths he has seen throughout the show were the same (Moeka died in some way in each world line on the same day).Why did he expect it to be impossible? @Huex This is the part that I'm really not sure about :D I think it's entirely possible that two different Okabes are basically on the same timeline according to how the world line shift works. So they might do things on their own which doesn't immediately affect the future, only if a shift takes place. The one sending the D-mail only overwrites the future versions of himself, not the past one (probably only if it somehow affected the past one as well, but the past one only experiences that change, his memories are not overwritten). |
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| Well, yeah. It's either my theory or this is the one overlooked flaw the rules of Steins;Gate has :/ Or another different theory. This part wasn't explained anywhere. I hope it's the first since so far I really liked how there aren't any plotholes in S;G :P (at least nothing I found so far that couldn't be explained from the given facts). |
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Huex3 said: Yes yes. Maybe it could be explained but it kinda goes outside of the lore. Think about this what if rather than moving through worldlines he actually doesn't move at all? What if when he sends D-mail he doesn't travel through worldline but rather Reading Steiner actually reconstructs the worldline and they are not moving to another track(or worldline) but rather everytime changes happen the entire track they are on rebuilds itself. This actually explains how he reached steins gate because he tricked his Reading Steiner and builds a unique worldline away from the influence of the attractor fields. The world does rebuild itself, that's for sure. Like I said previously, it's not like Okabe or anyone being "teleported" to another world, but rather the whole world is reconstructed, with people's memories disappearing (or rewritten according to the cause, like how the others recognise that Ruka has "always been a girl"). Reading Steiner, however, allows Okabe to retain his memories of the previous world line (the previous version of the world). This is both a gift and a curse. He remembers the old version, but he has no memories of the past of the new version. He can't remember Ruka "always being a girl", or Akihabara being only an electronics time and not the anime/moe paradise. But this is pretty much all the Reading Steiner does, he just remembers the old version, it's not like it's the thing that makes the world reconstruct itself. Also, as we saw in the ending, everyone has Reading Steiner to a certain degree. Some people like Okabe (there might be more) are very prone to it, or have it on a larger scale. Others, like Kurisu and Mayuri for example only see the old memories as dreams or Déjà vu. There might also be people in between, people who can actually remember everything from the past of the old world and everything from the past of the new world :) |
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| Yes, like Huex said they are not connected. The reason the Old Suzuha (from before the failure) CAN remain in the world without disappearing is that she still has a reason (in the future) to come back. However, she disappeared when the shift to the S;G world line happened, because in the future of the S;G world line WW3 probably doesn't happen and therefore she doesn't have to come back to help Okabe and lives peacefully with her parents. She can't be in that place at that point in time. But don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that after the failure she had to come back again, it's just that her "origin" of coming back still exists. If she wasn't here she would probably come back again due to WW3 still happening. This however also means that if for some reason in the world line after the failure the young Suzuha (in the future) would somehow die in a young age and could not live to age when she came back, she would disappear in the past, even if that's not completely the same Suzuha. So they are kind of still connected :D It's confusing, I know, but this is how this works :P |
RazielZeroDec 21, 2014 2:37 AM
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| I just realized I made a mistake in one of my earlier posts :D Hopefully I can fix it and at the same time explain the things for you. So, Suzuha always comes back in the Beta world lines. Even in the world line after the failure. Why isn't there 2 of her? Because she was rewritten by the ones coming forward from the past. Basically imagine that in the world line after the failure there was a Suzuha who came back from the future (instructed so by the Okabe who failed once) and she did arrive only to be replaced by the Suzuha coming from the past (from the world line before the failure). This is the same principle we've always seen before. Okabe does the same as well, he replaced the Okabe "original" to that world line. So yes, she is always instructed to come back, even in the world line after the failure (in which Future-Okabe sends the video mail). If she didn't come back she wouldn't be able to be in the present, Suzuha wouldn't be able to replace herself in the present time. This is also why she disappeared in the S;G world line. She didn't come back in that one (there was no WW3 to prevent), so she was technically not supposed to be in the present, but rather living together with Daru and her mother in the future. Hope I could explain this ^^" |
RazielZeroDec 21, 2014 4:27 AM
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Huex3 said: I see.. I think you're correct about Suzuha being rewritten. That is how she is able to carry the addtional information the past failures did not have. I'm not sure what additional information you mean o_o |
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| Edit: Found a thread on it: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=562379 :) Hey folks, I'm trying to get some clarification on the whole video mail aspect of the story. If anyone can help me out that would be awesome. So how does this whole thing work? In episode 1, Okabe gets a static message which he can't view. Then toward the end of the series he "unlocks" the message by failing to save Makise Kurisu once. How exactly does it "unlock"? What change happened that all of a sudden he now can view what he couldn't before? Furthermore, I know he sent himself that message, but why was it just static? I guess I'm just trying to figure out the in's and out's of the whole process. It's the one part of the show that really confuses me. |
Reading-SteinerMar 21, 2015 12:09 AM
| Thank you for your reply Nibelungen!!! Your explanation of the three different forms of time travel is fantastic, and what you say makes a ton of sense, but what I'm still lost on are the specifics of that video message itself. From what you are saying (if I understand it correctly), Past-Okabe received a video message from Future-Okabe. It was filled with static. It wasn't until Past-Okabe essentially became Present-Okabe that the very same message "unlocked" and became visible after he failed to save Makise Kurisu and thus gave birth to Future-Okabe existing who sent the message in the first place. So what confuses me is Future-Okabe actually sending the message to Past-Okabe. Why would the contents of the message just be static in episode 1? Why.. or more importantly how would that same message change so it would be viewable now once Past-Okabe turns into Present-Okabe? What are the logistics of that change? Because if the message was static due to Past Okabe not failing to save Makise Kurisu, which then meant Future-Okabe didn't have a reason to exist and send it in the first place, then how did Past-Okabe get the message to being with? It's the conversion from static to non-static that has me with ??? all around my head. I'm trying to wrap my mind around how that would work since the message essentially would be the same content-wise for both Past/Present-Okabe. So why even send the static message to himself in episode 1? Wouldn't it just make a whole lot more sense for Future-Okabe to send it to Present-Okabe when he is on the roof after failing to save Makise Kurisu? |
Reading-SteinerMar 23, 2015 11:19 AM
| Thanks a ton Nibelungen! This really does clear up a lot and makes a lot of sense. Steins;Gate is my absolute favorite anime (and show in general), but this one element did bug me from the very first time I watched it. So again, thanks so much! |
Rabas said: ok, i don't understand how Suzuha from future-okabe get replaced by Suzuha from the past (past-okabe), if it just like Okabe, Suhuza from the past-okabe should be replaced by Suzuha from future-okabe, am i wrong? please, i understand all discussion except this Suzuha. If Suzuha from future-okabe get replaced by Suzuha from past-okabe, how or when that happen? i think my connfusion will get solved in steins;gate 0. The additional information that Huex3 mention, maybe a video mail. when Suzuha come back to present after failure, she say to Okabe that now he must be receive a video mail, that means this Suzuha is Suzuha from future-okabe,,, The reason Suzuha doesn't become a new Suzuha (from the "new future"), is because she, just like Okabe, travelled to that point in time by the use of a time machine. It's the same reason Okabe replaced the "new-present-Okabe". He goes forward in time (to the rooftop with Mayuri and Daru) and replaces the new-Okabe, who 3 weeks ago saw an actually dead Kurisu (the one Okabe killed himself). The same goes for Suzuha. The new future-Suzuha goes back in time again (so that her "reason for existing in the present" doesn't disappear), and she is replaced by the Suzuha who is coming from the past with Okabe. So this is still the same Suzuha who first contacted Okabe about this mission. She knows about the video mail because that was part of her mission anyway. To go back in time, ensure Okabe fails to save Kurisu, so he can have more time, and develop an obsession about saving Kurisu, and later develop a way to send back a video mail and give the real instructions to present-Okabe. I hope I was a bit clearer this time :) (I didn't read S;G0 yet, but I wouldn't base anything on the story of that, because there is a chance that the writers will make errors and plot-holes by messing with the things we already know.) |
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