Why do we have to watch Stay Night before Zero?

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Jul 2014

u dont. only VN fanbois think this and likes to force their opinions on u

FZ first all day

Sep 1, 2014 12:41 AM

fst

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Mar 2013

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It's amazing how many people claim to understand F/Z from just watching the anime. If you think about it, using only the info given in the anime, everything seems like an asspull.

Sep 1, 2014 12:52 AM

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roundballs said:
u dont. only VN fanbois think this and likes to force their opinions on u

FZ first all day

No. It is the intention of the author.

But I mean, if you don't care about spoiling the story for yourself as well as getting confused as fuck, then feel free to watch F/Z first.

Sep 1, 2014 12:55 AM

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Sep 2014

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Because Fate Zero was a prequel, made in mind that the readers already finished Stay Night. Therefore, it threw out Stay Night spoilers left and right, even from the first episode. In the span of ~24 minutes of Episode 1, the entirely of Heaven's Feel (FSN last route, and the climax to the story as a whole) first 8/9 out of 14 days is spoiled, along with a few details of the later part. Being a route that develops slowly through slow foreshadowing buildups, and saving all of the actions to the last 2-3 days, a spoiler of that magnitude completely destroyed the experience.

And while secondaries zero-fag like roundballs might argue that "oh but Stay Night ruins the Zero ending by spoiling the winner, etc etc..", Stay Night's mention of the 4th War was extremely small. You never knew who won, or what happened, just that the Fuyuki Park incident happened for whatever reason.

Sep 1, 2014 12:59 AM

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dialectixchaos said:
Stay Night's mention of the 4th War was extremely small. You never knew who won, or what happened, just that the Fuyuki Park incident happened for whatever reason.

Either way it DOES "spoil" the outcome.

But that is the author's intent and how it's supposed to be of course, so it's still not a reason to watch F/Z first.

Sep 1, 2014 1:26 AM

qemsxd

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Apr 2014

dialectixchaos said:
Because Fate Zero was a prequel, made in mind that the readers already finished Stay Night. Therefore, it threw out Stay Night spoilers left and right, even from the first episode. In the span of ~24 minutes of Episode 1, the entirely of Heaven's Feel (FSN last route, and the climax to the story as a whole) first 8/9 out of 14 days is spoiled, along with a few details of the later part. Being a route that develops slowly through slow foreshadowing buildups, and saving all of the actions to the last 2-3 days, a spoiler of that magnitude completely destroyed the experience.

Would anyone please kindly tell me in the spoiler box what are these spoilers? I have played the VN after finishing F/Z though it was 3 years ago so I don't really remember what would have shocked me if I didn't watch F/Z first.

I just want to know what I am missing in the experience.

Sep 1, 2014 1:34 AM

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Jul 2014

dialectixchaos said:
Stay Night's mention of the 4th War was extremely small. You never knew who won, or what happened, just that the Fuyuki Park incident happened for whatever reason.

not sure if trolling or retarded. fate route tells u kiri won & that he forced saber to destroy the grail

never post again uneducated turd

Sep 1, 2014 1:43 AM

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Sep 2014

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qemsxd said:

Sakura's backstory, secrets of the corrupted grail, the grail piece inside Sakura are the big one

Sep 1, 2014 1:45 AM

#10

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Jul 2014

^dodged

#rekt

Sep 1, 2014 1:52 AM

#11

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roundballs said:
fate route tells u kiri won & that he forced saber to destroy the grail

Which is exactly what the author wants you to know.

Watching F/Z before F/SN is like reading a book, but instead of starting at page 1 you start at page 400.

Sep 1, 2014 1:59 AM

#12

CapsuleCore

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Sep 2013

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qemsxd said:

I'll just list the things I remember off my head, from EP 1 that spoil FSN:

Both stories spoil each other heavily, but FSN --> FZ is the "correct" order, as in, that is what the authors wanted and it's also the order they were released (Note, I am only talking about the Visual Novel (FSN) and the Light Novel (FZ) release. The 2006 anime covers only less than 1/3 of the Visual Novel.).

It works both ways obviously, since FZ is the prequel and no, you don't necessarily "ruin" your enjoyment of FSN if you watch FZ first and vice versa. Keep in mind though that lots of FSN's important plot twists are very early referenced in FZ, while the biggest thing FSN gives away, and only at the end of the story, is FZ's conclusion. How almost everything happened was new to FSN readers, too.

CapsuleCoreSep 1, 2014 2:03 AM

Sep 1, 2014 2:20 AM

#13

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Sep 2014

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roundballs said:
^dodged

#rekt

Nice bait m8

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20105/

Kirei never explicitly told Shirou who won the war. The exact quote is:

Well, I was unable to witness the final moment since Kiritsugu had already defeated me."

You only knew Kotomine was the last opponent because you already read/saw Zero. Without that, from the scene, you can only derive that:

Kotomine lost at some point and took shelter at the church (from the beginning). In Zero, this was shown to be a deception, since it was Assassin that was "defeated".

He managed to touch the grail, and that somehow caused the Fuyuki fire

He was defeated by Kiritsugu

Sep 1, 2014 2:25 AM

#14

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Jul 2014

dialectixchaos said:

roundballs said:
^dodged

#rekt

Nice bait m8

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20105/

Kirei never explicitly told Shirou who won the war. The exact quote is:

Well, I was unable to witness the final moment since Kiritsugu had already defeated me."

You only knew Kotomine was the last opponent because you already read/saw Zero. Without that, from the scene, you can only derive that:

Kotomine lost at some point and took shelter at the church (from the beginning)

He managed to touch the grail, and that somehow caused the Fuyuki fire

He was defeated by Kiritsugu

LMAO! it's from saber we learn that kiri won and that he forced her to destroy the grail, not Kirei (she explained it to shirou)

feel free to keep posting i like proving u wrong

Sep 1, 2014 2:41 AM

#15

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Despite the fact that you provide no source what so ever (screenshot or otherwise)?

Go ahead. The closest SN comes to stating the winner of the 4th is stating that he denied its power (http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20253/), he defeated many masters and Kotomine is the only one to survive. It did mention that the holy grail appeared after 5 masters were defeated, but that contradicted the information provided earlier that the winner of the Holy Grail war would receive the grail. There are 7 masters, so 6 must be defeated. Like I said, Zero cleared it up, SN was vague at best.

OSFrogSep 1, 2014 2:49 AM

Sep 1, 2014 2:44 AM

#16

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dialectixchaos said:
Despite the fact that you provide no source what so ever (screenshot or otherwise)?

Go ahead.

I think this is the point where we should just ignore him.

Sep 1, 2014 2:46 AM

#17

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Lets see.
Kirei outright tells Shirou that he lost early.Half truth since he was in the "finals".
Kiritsugu won the battle but didnt get the grail.Kirei was the one that "got his wish".
Kirei isnt supposed to have a Servant from the previous war.

And FZ still remains as the one with most spoilers about FSN so no stop your trolling.

ssjokgSep 1, 2014 2:57 AM

Sep 1, 2014 2:55 AM

#18

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Jul 2014

dialectixchaos said:
Despite the fact that you provide no source what so ever (screenshot or otherwise)?

Go ahead.

i aint trying to convince you of anything, you called me out n put words in my mouth. then u follow it up with an incorrect statement. lol i couldnt possibly pass up the opportunity to make u look like an idiot in front of everyone

u want proof? go reread the vn or ask someone who knows their shit

Sep 1, 2014 4:59 AM

#19

I-9029

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Aug 2014

1339

Uhuh... *insert sarcastic remarks here*

Well, I also played FS/N and watched F/Z, so pretty much in the know how of things. I remember that in the late part of Fate route, Saber told Shirou about the events of the 4th GW, who she is and why she hates Kiri, and in HF route that Shirou knows about Kiri and Ilya's relationship and how Sakura become Matou's doll when the war is almost at the end. Even then, the events of the 4th GW is very vague, not so much so in F/Z. Sorry for I have no pics to proof about this, but I think in youtube, someone did a gameplay of the VN, so you can check it out there.

Sep 1, 2014 5:04 AM

#20

-Riptide-

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Oct 2013

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Because apparently, watching F/Z first ruins the experience of watching F/SN since F/Z spoils a lot of things that are supposed to be twists if F/SN. Although I watched F/Z first before reading the F/SN visual novel, I can imagine people's reaction when they find out about those plot twists for the first time in F/SN.

Sep 1, 2014 6:46 AM

#21

Kleferi

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qemsxd said:
What am I missing here? I have already watched Fate/Zero.

There's no need to watch this after F/SN.

Sep 1, 2014 7:27 AM

#22

Verchan

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Jul 2013

1610

You don't need to watch F/SN first. You have to read it.

Psajdak said:

qemsxd said:
What am I missing here? I have already watched Fate/Zero.

There's no need to watch this after F/SN.

So you're saying it's pointless for anyone who's read the VN to watch F/Z?

And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible.

Sep 1, 2014 7:40 AM

#23

Kleferi

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No, I'm saying it's perfectly fine to watch first F/Z anime, and than new F/SN adaptation.

Sep 1, 2014 7:45 AM

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Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Psajdak said:
No, I'm saying it's perfectly fine to watch first F/Z anime, and than new F/SN adaptation.

and the thousands that have read the vn would say ypu are wrong and present facts for it.

Sep 1, 2014 7:47 AM

#25

CarenPriestess

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Jul 2013

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Psajdak said:

qemsxd said:
What am I missing here? I have already watched Fate/Zero.

There's no need to watch this after F/SN.

I'm sorry, you nearly lost me there.

But there's always a benefit to prequels, especially when they go into a lot more detail about events in the past which the visual novel didn't.

Psajdak said:
No, I'm saying it's perfectly fine to watch first F/Z anime, and than new F/SN adaptation.

That didn't seem to be what you meant, but if it was, then I'm afraid that I'll have to agree. To an extent, anyway. Personally, while F/SN -> F/Z is indeed the intended and preferred order, it pretty much works both ways. There's a benefit to gain from the other first , but each have their own story.

Though, if possible, F/SN should be first since it promises the best experience.

CarenPriestessSep 1, 2014 7:54 AM

Sep 1, 2014 7:54 AM

#26

Verchan

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Psajdak said:
No, I'm saying it's perfectly fine to watch first F/Z anime, and than new F/SN adaptation.

You yourself probably got into F/Z first, didn't you?

And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible.

Sep 1, 2014 8:04 AM

#27

Ahenshihael

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JabonHR said:

Psajdak said:
No, I'm saying it's perfectly fine to watch first F/Z anime, and than new F/SN adaptation.

You yourself probably got into F/Z first, didn't you?

His fav character is Shinji...

Sep 1, 2014 8:13 AM

#28

Kleferi

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Mercifulness said:

Psajdak said:

There's no need to watch this after F/SN.

I'm sorry, you nearly lost me there.

But there's always a benefit to prequels, especially when they go into a lot more detail about events in the past which the visual novel didn't.

Psajdak said:
No, I'm saying it's perfectly fine to watch first F/Z anime, and than new F/SN adaptation.

I'm talking here strictly from perspective of only watching anime.

Sure, there are VNs, and yes, F/Z novel came after F/SN novel and that's fine, but most of people who watch anime don't read them, but rather watch anime for what it is, and what it offers by itself alone.

F/Z anime started airing in October 2011, and finished i June 2012; it would be kinda weird to me if watchers waited for new F/SN anime before watching F/Z.

Personally, I believe watching anime in order of airing is the most correct way, be it sequels, or prequels.

So, IMO, there's nothing wrong in watching upcoming F/SN after F/Z, but if it was first F/SN anime, I'd watch it before F/Z, because it aired first.

My main reason for trying to watch something strictly by the order of airing is because it simply that's how those anime titles came out, in that order.

Also, each new anime brings some new improvements in animation and style, so if I first watch something that aired later, and than come back to something that aired first, there's some kind of feeling of regress.

JabonHR said:

You yourself probably got into F/Z first, didn't you?

No, I watched first original F/SN anime.

Although, I do think F/Z Rider is pinnacle of Fate series.

Fai said:

His fav character is Shinji...

And you are 30 years old virgin who only bothers people.

KleferiSep 1, 2014 8:16 AM

Sep 1, 2014 8:28 AM

#29

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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So your preferred order is based on nothing that improves the storytelling.Good to finally know that.

And no it doesn't matter what medium it is.

Also 2 years won't make a difference.The remake WILL have derp animation just like FZ did.

The most that may change(and it did) are the designs like Rin and Saber.

Sep 7, 2014 10:21 AM

#30

Sloth-

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Jul 2014

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dialectixchaos said:
Despite the fact that you provide no source what so ever (screenshot or otherwise)?

Go ahead. The closest SN comes to stating the winner of the 4th is stating that he denied its power (http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20253/), he defeated many masters and Kotomine is the only one to survive. It did mention that the holy grail appeared after 5 masters were defeated, but that contradicted the information provided earlier that the winner of the Holy Grail war would receive the grail. There are 7 masters, so 6 must be defeated. Like I said, Zero cleared it up, SN was vague at best.

Hmm, I also remember F/SN mentioning that Kiritsugu ordered Saber to destroy the Grail. I'll re-watch to look for screenshots but you'll have to wait for that I'm afraid.

I'M GONE NOW

Sep 7, 2014 10:27 AM

#31

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I posted said screenshots in another thread once.

Sep 7, 2014 10:31 AM

#32

Sloth-

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Botato said:
I posted said screenshots in another thread once.

Would you mind telling me which thread?

I'M GONE NOW

Sep 7, 2014 12:07 PM

#33

ariebagusp

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May 2014

yes, F/Z anime is supposed to be watched after READING FSN VN ....

but this new FSN anime is supposed to be watched after F/Z anime, I think 75% new FSN viewers are already watched F/Z before .... this is the most logical argument for me

you can't force anyone to wait for another 2 years for watching F/Z

but its up to you

Sep 7, 2014 2:47 PM

#34

doom19876

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Nov 2013

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If F/Z is supposed to be watched after the VN it should also be watched after F/SN 2014, because they're likely to be similar.

The only thing I can remember about F/SN regarding the grail and the 4th war was

Zero spoils specific things of Stay night, making watching stay night less enjoyable. Stay night mentioned stuff vaguely and open to interpertation about the 4th war (Zero I suppose).

Sep 7, 2014 9:03 PM

#35

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22774

AnarchicSloth said:

Botato said:
I posted said screenshots in another thread once.

Would you mind telling me which thread?

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1255349&show=40#msg33784627
I remember there being other moments where she talks about it again, but this should do for now..

ariebagusp said:
but this new FSN anime is supposed to be watched after F/Z anime

No it's not.

Sep 7, 2014 9:36 PM

#36

Ston3_FreeN7

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Jun 2009

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I've got to say, though. Them saying that "Fate/stay night should be watched first" is all fine and good, but they are pretty daft if they actually expect many people to not have watched /Zero first since it's been out, completed, for two years now. In that way I agree with ariebagusp.

Kind of wish they'd have adapted Fate/stay night first, instead of /Zero. But, I can only assume they only recently decided to adapt /stay night for whatever reason.

"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia

Sep 7, 2014 9:39 PM

#37

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Botato said:

AnarchicSloth said:

Would you mind telling me which thread?

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1255349&show=40#msg33784627
I remember there being other moments where she talks about it again, but this should do for now..

ariebagusp said:
but this new FSN anime is supposed to be watched after F/Z anime

No it's not.

Is Fai banned?I was expecting him to reply on that.

Sep 7, 2014 9:40 PM

#38

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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insan3soldiern said:

Kind of wish they'd have adapted Fate/stay night first, instead of /Zero. But, I can only assume they only recently decided to adapt /stay night for whatever reason.

Well FSN already had two adaptations(lets not start about the definition here) so they wanted a "fresh"series. FZ was a good choice to test the fandom and newcomers.

ssjokgSep 7, 2014 10:00 PM

Sep 7, 2014 9:54 PM

#39

Ston3_FreeN7

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ssjokg said:

insan3soldiern said:

Kind of wish they'd have adapted Fate/stay night first, instead of /Zero. But, I can only assume they only recently decided to adapt /stay night for whatever reason.

Well FSN already had two adaptations(lets not start about the definition here) so they wanted a "fresh"series. FZ was a got choice to test the fandom and newcomers.

Well, if that's the case, then it would have been a good idea for them to treat this as a sequel right?

"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia

Sep 7, 2014 9:57 PM

#40

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22774

ssjokg said:

Botato said:

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1255349&show=40#msg33784627
I remember there being other moments where she talks about it again, but this should do for now..

No it's not.

Is Fai banned?I was expecting him to reply on that.

Yeah he hasn't been posting in Fate/ SAO or A.Z lately so maybe.

insan3soldiern said:

ssjokg said:

Well FSN already had two adaptations(lets not start about the definition here) so they wanted a "fresh"series. FZ was a got choice to test the fandom and newcomers.

Well, if that's the case, then it would have been a good idea for them to treat this as a sequel right?

You know what, screw the adaptations. Fate/ adaptations suck because they are done in a so messy way it is better to just read the source materials and THEN watch them as fanservice if you like the novels..

Sep 7, 2014 10:02 PM

#41

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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20098

Obviously FSN will be treated as a sequel.

But it is better if it isnt treated like that.

Well newcomers 4 years from now will enjoy Fate/+Ufotable more than current viewers.

Sep 7, 2014 10:06 PM

#42

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Nov 2013

22774

ssjokg said:
Well newcomers 4 years from now will enjoy Fate/+Ufotable more than current viewers.

No they won't.

There is no Fate route adaptation and whatever they are going to add to UBW to fix this might do more harm than good. Best thing to do is still read the VN first unfortunately.

Sep 7, 2014 10:12 PM

#43

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Botato said:

ssjokg said:
Well newcomers 4 years from now will enjoy Fate/+Ufotable more than current viewers.

No they won't.

There is no Fate route adaptation and whatever they are going to add to UBW to fix this might do more harm than good. Best thing to do is still read the VN first unfortunately.

You are becoming Fai.Stop it.

Sep 7, 2014 10:13 PM

#44

SolviteWoTaberu

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Jan 2013

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I heard Fate/Zero first mostly sucks because it ruins Heaven's Feel.

Sep 7, 2014 10:19 PM

#45

Ston3_FreeN7

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15319

Yeah, I would prefer to actually see how they handle it first before condemning whatever changes they've made.

"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia

Sep 7, 2014 10:27 PM

#46

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Nov 2013

22774

Well Fai isn't here so...

Anyway, I hope we get a new EMIYA remix for UBW.

Sep 7, 2014 10:41 PM

#47

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Botato said:
Well Fai isn't here so...

Anyway, I hope we get a new EMIYA remix for UBW.

*obligatory Fai response about the FSN Vita ost*

Sep 7, 2014 10:42 PM

#48

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Sep 2014

823

Depending on who is doing the music. DEEN's adaption may be shit, but the music was pretty good, and it had a few original tracks that I liked (roar of the universe, night of fate comes to mind), and that Emiya remix is my personal favorite.

^ The PS Vita OST weren't THAT bad. I didn't like the wail in the Emiya remix, but most of the track were superior to the original IMO. Getting clear instruments in Mighty Wind and Deep Slumber were a nice touch compared to the muddied mess that is the original

Sep 7, 2014 10:47 PM

#49

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Nov 2013

22774

I never got a hold of the OST for DEEN's anime. There are tracks that I liked but I don't know what they are called. Also, for the record, EMIYA always sounds good.

Sep 7, 2014 10:47 PM

#50