| People are forgetting Touma is basically a container for an entity that is arguably only weaker than Othinus and Aiwass. We actually haven't ever seen it at full power, and Othinus has some weird 50/50 skill that lets her win 100 percent of the time if it lands on the right 50 so that could be a technicality. People act like Touma should have been dead and its plot armor, but not really considering his right arm is really just a secondary limiter. Whose to say if he went into a fatal state or Accelartor managed to get off one of his limbs, that Accel wouldn't get the beating of a life time from whatever is inside. If anything he was lucky the situation went the way it did. |
| I think it's obvious. He won't win if the sisters didn't help him but i think Touma winning is definitely good for Accelerator's character development. You know, from a sadistic killer to a loli lover... |
RedgraveGilverJul 22, 2013 4:37 AM
| Yeah the "Invisible thing" can beat Accel but not Touma. Touma still beign alive right now is plot armor, just look at all the wounds he took already, normal human would be dead like 3 times now. |
| SPOILERS There is one problem with that.The vessel/seal is his right hand that is why the Imagine Breaker is only his righthand and not his whole body.Well according to Terra and I think Aleister too,Imagine Breaker's true potential arent shown yet so it could probably spread to his entire body. Although,the Invisible Thing does affect him from the inside like,Telepaths cant mess with him,Teleportation doesnt work on him,Innocentius whose heat is supposed top be at 3000 C, doesnt affect him,the beating he got from Accel and Aqua(especially Aqua)didnt matter since he got up afterwards(although it took more time with Aqua),his arm regrew in the fight with Fiamma etc. So it is more like "if it isnt an instant kill he will keep getting up" situation. And well,even if the Invisible Thing kills Accelerator or whoever chops Touma's head doesnt mean much if he cant come back to life. More details about Imagine Breaker. http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com/wiki/Imagine_Breaker |
ssjokgSep 30, 2013 10:09 PM
HomeAlone said: With Imagine Breaker Touma has arguably the tool to beat any esper or magician if he is fast enough to react to their attacks. A good majority of the time, Touma has more than enough time to react due to his unconscious precognitive abilities. Whether or not he can beat any Magician is a bit debatable as he has lost to every Saint he fought as they beat him with pure physical strength. |
(Also known on other places as Hiss13) All hail the adorable chess master! |
| Okay I might be stretching it, but it also ties in with his name, one above God, something about the devil , etc. Ie I don't think Touma is an ordinary human, and for all we know the thing inside him , is in fact him. So what I am saying is his body is more like a container, and if it dies, he just awakes in that form. If you guys have seen Tenchi you might get what I am getting at . That is assuming whatever he holds is part of him, not just something parasitic stuck in him. |
krownklown said: Okay I might be stretching it, but it also ties in with his name, one above God, something about the devil , etc. Ie I don't think Touma is an ordinary human, and for all we know the thing inside him , is in fact him. So what I am saying is his body is more like a container, and if it dies, he just awakes in that form. If you guys have seen Tenchi you might get what I am getting at . That is assuming whatever he holds is part of him, not just something parasitic stuck in him. JUst got back from work so I will just copy paste some things here from wikia. His surname is translated like that(The person superior to God ) with the kanji that Kanzaki thought that it was written. Afterword volume 14: Now, what is the difference between “神上”(The person superior to God ) and “神浄”(The One Who Purifies God)…?-Kamachi Kazuma ^As far as I am concerned arent both of them placing him above God anyway? As for him/his soul being special I dont like it.From volume 1 till now in NT8 Touma is described as a normal human with an unusual power in his right hand. |
ssjokgSep 30, 2013 10:12 PM
ssjokg said: krownklown said: Okay I might be stretching it, but it also ties in with his name, one above God, something about the devil , etc. Ie I don't think Touma is an ordinary human, and for all we know the thing inside him , is in fact him. So what I am saying is his body is more like a container, and if it dies, he just awakes in that form. If you guys have seen Tenchi you might get what I am getting at . That is assuming whatever he holds is part of him, not just something parasitic stuck in him. JUst got back from work so I will just copy paste some things here from wikia. His surname is translated like that(The person superior to God ) with the kanji that Kanzaki thought that it was written. Afterword volume 14: Now, what is the difference between “神上”(The person superior to God ) and “神浄”(The One Who Purifies God)…?-Kamachi Kazuma ^As far as I am concerned arent both of them placing him above God anyway? As for him/his soul being special I dont like it.From volume 1 till now in NT8 Touma is described as a normal human with an unusual power in his right hand. I don't know how to spoiler tag, spoilers ahead But that is just it. Getting to the point with the name, both of them put him above "God". If image breaker is so common that more than one person has had it before, it losses the uniqueness and I don't think that is the point of the name. I think even the author made some point there is something to the name in one of his commentaries. Just going by in story, there were only two instances I believe where the thing inside came out, against Aurelious and Othinus. In both his basically received fatal hits and survived in both. Besides I don't put Accelerator on the same level as Othinus especially not at the point in time when Touma fought him. Now will he die, maybe, but we haven't had a chance yet for Touma to get wounded to the point he unleashes the invisible thing, and did not get any treatment. So who knows. Besides Touma's image breaker dispells magic and esper abilities. He also has the foresight. Yet he has shown super human healing and regeneration. He had his arm cut off and reattached against Izard. Blood loss alone would kill people on that one, and even in the best circumstances, you cannot just pop an arm back on. Not to mention the other abuse he has taken. Neither image breaker nor foresight are healing abilities, so there is more to Touma then those two, and clearly if the healing comes from the thing within him, there is more to him as well. Its shonen for God's sake, the main hero in shonen always is more than meets the eye. |
| But if Touma is the only one ever having Imagine Breaker or the thing inside it,how exactly does Aleister know about it? There are 4 instances actually.Izzard,Fiamma,Othinus and Rensa(a little bit different here but it still was the invisible thing acting). I bit confused here but what does Accelerator have to do with this? Not always.There are cases where he cant dispell spells or abilities at all. As for the limb regeneration we have to wait and see,since we have seen him do it only with his right arm were both of his power are contained. As for shonen.I will use Naruto for an example. Naruto,Naruto's body or soul alone arent unique in any way.He just has more mana than others(that later gets even bigger thanks to the fox) It is because of the Fox that he has all those Nine tail related powers. Touma has his foresight and battle experience. THen he has the powers he gets from The Imagine Breaker and the Invisible Thing. |
ssjokg said: But if Touma is the only one ever having Imagine Breaker or the thing inside it,how exactly does Aleister know about it? There are 4 instances actually.Izzard,Fiamma,Othinus and Rensa(a little bit different here but it still was the invisible thing acting). I bit confused here but what does Accelerator have to do with this? Not always.There are cases where he cant dispell spells or abilities at all. As for the limb regeneration we have to wait and see,since we have seen him do it only with his right arm were both of his power are contained. As for shonen.I will use Naruto for an example. Naruto,Naruto's body or soul alone arent unique in any way.He just has more mana than others(that later gets even bigger thanks to the fox) It is because of the Fox that he has all those Nine tail related powers. Touma has his foresight and battle experience. THen he has the powers he gets from The Imagine Breaker and the Invisible Thing. Aiwass is the strongest current being in place, and Aleister's mentor/compatriot. Its basically an angel? So it could know such information. I just meant with Accel the invisible thing at min could kill him even if it kills Touma as the only one to beat it was Othinus. But I will admit I have been lazy with the LNs and have only read spoilers, I need to catch. Well to be fair Naruto is the son of the 4th, the son of an Uzumaki a clan descended from the strongest Ninja of all time, and now it was even revealed the sage was the son of a woman considered to be a goddess. So while not unique in the strictest sense of the word, he basically is descended from the best of the best. This is in addition to holding the nine tails. Lol I think we got off topic. I still think Touma is more unique than just being a container for something and the imagine breaker, but we shall have to see. Dam, I hope we get more Rail gun and Index anime soon. |
krownklown said: ssjokg said: But if Touma is the only one ever having Imagine Breaker or the thing inside it,how exactly does Aleister know about it? There are 4 instances actually.Izzard,Fiamma,Othinus and Rensa(a little bit different here but it still was the invisible thing acting). I bit confused here but what does Accelerator have to do with this? Not always.There are cases where he cant dispell spells or abilities at all. As for the limb regeneration we have to wait and see,since we have seen him do it only with his right arm were both of his power are contained. As for shonen.I will use Naruto for an example. Naruto,Naruto's body or soul alone arent unique in any way.He just has more mana than others(that later gets even bigger thanks to the fox) It is because of the Fox that he has all those Nine tail related powers. Touma has his foresight and battle experience. THen he has the powers he gets from The Imagine Breaker and the Invisible Thing. Aiwass is the strongest current being in place, and Aleister's mentor/compatriot. Its basically an angel? So it could know such information. I just meant with Accel the invisible thing at min could kill him even if it kills Touma as the only one to beat it was Othinus. But I will admit I have been lazy with the LNs and have only read spoilers, I need to catch. Well to be fair Naruto is the son of the 4th, the son of an Uzumaki a clan descended from the strongest Ninja of all time, and now it was even revealed the sage was the son of a woman considered to be a goddess. So while not unique in the strictest sense of the word, he basically is descended from the best of the best. This is in addition to holding the nine tails. Lol I think we got off topic. I still think Touma is more unique than just being a container for something and the imagine breaker, but we shall have to see. Dam, I hope we get more Rail gun and Index anime soon. But Aiwass wasnt in touch with Aleister for decades.Unless if Aiwass can see the future,and I doubt he can due to his personality,there is no way to know about Touma having some power hidden within him when he hasnt shown anything like that. Yes but except having their blood which just gives him the mana pool he had even without the fox he doesnt have anything else.He isnt a prodigy either.Everything he accomplished through training was because he had that advantage of using hundreds of clones like it was nothing. Touma is unique. As Fiamma said:"“It was the same when I did it. That is the proof that the current generation Imagine Breaker is still attached to him. There is meaning in that right hand belonging to him. To put it one way, the right hand is only the right hand when it is growing from his right shoulder.” Maybe it is his personality or maybe he is a descendant of the previous wielder.But I really doubt that Touma has another power inside him,unrelated to both IB and the invisible thing. |
ssjokg said: krownklown said: ssjokg said: But if Touma is the only one ever having Imagine Breaker or the thing inside it,how exactly does Aleister know about it? There are 4 instances actually.Izzard,Fiamma,Othinus and Rensa(a little bit different here but it still was the invisible thing acting). I bit confused here but what does Accelerator have to do with this? Not always.There are cases where he cant dispell spells or abilities at all. As for the limb regeneration we have to wait and see,since we have seen him do it only with his right arm were both of his power are contained. As for shonen.I will use Naruto for an example. Naruto,Naruto's body or soul alone arent unique in any way.He just has more mana than others(that later gets even bigger thanks to the fox) It is because of the Fox that he has all those Nine tail related powers. Touma has his foresight and battle experience. THen he has the powers he gets from The Imagine Breaker and the Invisible Thing. Aiwass is the strongest current being in place, and Aleister's mentor/compatriot. Its basically an angel? So it could know such information. I just meant with Accel the invisible thing at min could kill him even if it kills Touma as the only one to beat it was Othinus. But I will admit I have been lazy with the LNs and have only read spoilers, I need to catch. Well to be fair Naruto is the son of the 4th, the son of an Uzumaki a clan descended from the strongest Ninja of all time, and now it was even revealed the sage was the son of a woman considered to be a goddess. So while not unique in the strictest sense of the word, he basically is descended from the best of the best. This is in addition to holding the nine tails. Lol I think we got off topic. I still think Touma is more unique than just being a container for something and the imagine breaker, but we shall have to see. Dam, I hope we get more Rail gun and Index anime soon. But Aiwass wasnt in touch with Aleister for decades.Unless if Aiwass can see the future,and I doubt he can due to his personality,there is no way to know about Touma having some power hidden within him when he hasnt shown anything like that. Yes but except having their blood which just gives him the mana pool he had even without the fox he doesnt have anything else.He isnt a prodigy either.Everything he accomplished through training was because he had that advantage of using hundreds of clones like it was nothing. Touma is unique. As Fiamma said:"“It was the same when I did it. That is the proof that the current generation Imagine Breaker is still attached to him. There is meaning in that right hand belonging to him. To put it one way, the right hand is only the right hand when it is growing from his right shoulder.” Maybe it is his personality or maybe he is a descendant of the previous wielder.But I really doubt that Touma has another power inside him,unrelated to both IB and the invisible thing. Actually Naruto is a prodigy, he is one of the two strongest characters in the series by the age of 16. Hard work or not, that does not happen without genius. Also I am not saying he has a third power, I am saying his connection to the hidden power is more than just a fluke or random chance. He has the hidden power due to some unknown relation. Also Aiwas is basically a reality warper, so omniscience or partial omniscience is not far fetched. |
| Naruto was conveniently born with too much mana inside him,conveniently got the Kyuubi sealed inside him,conveniently got 3-4 of the best masters,and in the age of 16 conveniently got the chance to be trained in the sage art not because he is a genius but because he had to unlike any other shinobi of his age etc etc.He conveniently got all those when he had to. You implied more than him just having a reason for having his power. Aiwass like any other angel, is from another world.That doesnt make him able to see the future; he would kill himself before meeting Aleister.Even Aleister created counter measures so that Aiwass wont kill himself now.If he had any kind of omniscience he wouldnt need Last Order to come to their dimension, keep his powers or stay alive due to some foreign mechanism. |
ssjokgNov 15, 2013 1:55 PM
| Let me clarify it a bit. I think the thing inside of him is something related to God, who in all likelihood exists given Angels exist. Now I also think he has some direct relation to that thing inside either through direct descent by blood or some kind of soul descent something like reincarnation. And the other abilities like healing are the abilities of the thing inside that he can just used due to his relation to it. Hey it might turn out false, but its not Touma just being in the right place at the right. I wont argue with you further on Naruto, but he is a character gifted beyond measure and he has achieved results that someone who was not born with a predisposition to greatness could achieve. Look I know you want to tell kids they can be whatever they dream when they grow up. But the world is not such a nice place. Didnt know the things about Aiwass, so he is suicidal or something? |
krownklown said: Let me clarify it a bit. I think the thing inside of him is something related to God, who in all likelihood exists given Angels exist. Now I also think he has some direct relation to that thing inside either through direct descent by blood or some kind of soul descent something like reincarnation. And the other abilities like healing are the abilities of the thing inside that he can just used due to his relation to it. Hey it might turn out false, but its not Touma just being in the right place at the right. I wont argue with you further on Naruto, but he is a character gifted beyond measure and he has achieved results that someone who was not born with a predisposition to greatness could achieve. Look I know you want to tell kids they can be whatever they dream when they grow up. But the world is not such a nice place. Didnt know the things about Aiwass, so he is suicidal or something? He is gifted with extreme luck that's for sure.He has GREAT charisma but more than half of his powers come from lucky events(or unlucky depending on how you see it) Apparently he is. |
ssjokg said: krownklown said: Let me clarify it a bit. I think the thing inside of him is something related to God, who in all likelihood exists given Angels exist. Now I also think he has some direct relation to that thing inside either through direct descent by blood or some kind of soul descent something like reincarnation. And the other abilities like healing are the abilities of the thing inside that he can just used due to his relation to it. Hey it might turn out false, but its not Touma just being in the right place at the right. I wont argue with you further on Naruto, but he is a character gifted beyond measure and he has achieved results that someone who was not born with a predisposition to greatness could achieve. Look I know you want to tell kids they can be whatever they dream when they grow up. But the world is not such a nice place. Didnt know the things about Aiwass, so he is suicidal or something? He is gifted with extreme luck that's for sure.He has GREAT charisma but more than half of his powers come from lucky events(or unlucky depending on how you see it) Apparently he is. A suicidal angel, and a homicidal magical pixie girl minus the pixie in Alesiter. Good combo. |
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