| So, like, yesterday, I got to episode 17 of Da Capo, and found out that This put me way off the show, and I'm not sure whether I ever want to watch it again, as I pretty much HATED her the entire show. I also hated that My point is that when watching a harem, if the characters you want to get together don't, you'll probably hate it, no matter how good it is, as emphasized by my example above. This is why I think when judging a harem show, if you can't get the majority of your viewers to want the male lead and female lead to be together or at least be ok with it, then you've pretty much failed. It all depends on A, B, C or D A - You love both the male and female lead and are happy that they get together in the end. This is most obviously the best one out of the 4, and if a harem can get the majority to feel like this, then they have succeeded. For me, such examples include B - Although you like and are ok with one of the leads getting together with the other lead, you would have preferred one of the other love interests to get with him/her. I can't recall a series that did this to me to be honest, but I'm sure there at least one that made me feel like this. Something tells me that C - You hate one of the leads, and because they both got together, it made you dislike the series a little, and maybe even hate it, who knows? An Example would be the one I talked about above, D - Finally, there is the most common, where the main character ends up with no one, either because he doesn't actually have feelings for any of them, he doesn't want to hurt any of their feelings picking one over the other, or hell, maybe he likes them all and can't choose one over the other. Whatever the case, it is not a very decisive end, leaving many disappointed. Although it doesn't exactly satisfy me, it is much better than C, and I can still rate such a series a good 7 or 8 if it is good enough, although probably not a 9 or 10 if the harem was the main focus. I won't bother listing an example here because they are far too common in my opinion. So yeah, that ending is very important when it comes to harem series. It made want to take what may have been a 6 or 7 and turn it into a 4 or 3 instead. But alas, what do you lot think? Discuss. |
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| I literally have no problems with any of them. Examples of harems where the main is closest and/or gets with the character I don't particularly like: This doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the show though, because there is usually a comedic factor to harem's and one's that end up all mushy (e.g Shuffle) don't really push my buttons very well. So yeah..... If the character relationship isn't the one I'd like to see, usually the other elements make up for it. Which is why I rated Shuffle pretty highly. |
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| The problem with harems, is they try to make it romance. But then they just keep throwing more and more girls in there for eye candy, destroying any chance of realistic drama and ultimately prolonging the romantic development. |
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| And here I was thinking the main problem with Harems is that they're not story driven, similarly to battle shounen and ecchi. Actually, I take that back. I'd rather harems be mindless fun and have a nonexistent plot then an extremely poor one that takes itself too seriously. |
ShrabsterJun 23, 2013 3:58 PM
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Red_Keys said: The problem with harems, is they try to make it romance. But then they just keep throwing more and more girls in there for eye candy, destroying any chance of realistic drama and ultimately prolonging the romantic development. Yes. |
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| To Love Ru Darkness is the best Harem I've seen and it makes sense (within their wacky world). Momo wants to make Rito the king of an alien planet where he is allowed concubines and multiple wives. The story is inherently ecchi and RARELY focuses on real romance. |
Red_Keys said: and in the end the MC ends with the first girl he met OR its an open harem ending with no closure.The problem with harems, is they try to make it romance. But then they just keep throwing more and more girls in there for eye candy, destroying any chance of realistic drama and ultimately prolonging the romantic development. |
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AstralAxolotl said: Ecchi is boob-driven Not always. Hentai Ouji is somewhat ecchi and it's dominated by DFC. Not that I'm complaining... |
Red_Keys said: The problem with harems, is they try to make it romance. But then they just keep throwing more and more girls in there for eye candy, destroying any chance of realistic drama and ultimately prolonging the romantic development. True, but all stories need conflict in some way, shape or form, and an anime based mainly on the possibility of 2 people getting together needs hurdles in the way of that pairing like jealousy and all that, correct? Although I do agree with you that a good harem needs only 2 or 3 possible girls for the male lead (or guys for the female lead if reverse) instead of like 6 or 7. Hentai Ouji To Warawanai Neko is a good example of this as it only has Tsukushi and Azusa (as the Steel King is not exactly a serious contender), while something like Infinite Stratos has like 5. |
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AstralAxolotl said: bakemonogatari is in fact the best harem ever but to say it points out the flaws of a harem is debatable unlike School Days which was like a giant middle finger to the entire harem genreBakemonogatari is the best harem series ever written because it's self-aware and points out most of the inherent flaws of the genre, much like the author did for fighting shounen with Medaka Box. |
| dtshyk said: Urobuchi said this anime(Psycho Pass) has cruel scenes both physically and mentally. ZettaiRyouiki: In other news, the sun rises from the East. |
| Every time i am searching for anime on MAL, if i see Harem in the genre's i immediately close the tab. I just hate harems :o. Oh and you forgot to put how extremely dense the main protagonist are in Harem's. |
| They have 90% of the time bad character's and no real plot. |
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Nidstang said: They have 90% of the time bad character's and no real plot. I clicked your profile out of curiosity(Not really i am a stalker), why do you have 402 anime in your watching section lol. Doesn't that ruin the excitement of an anime? |
| tl;dr |
pufss said: Nidstang said: They have 90% of the time bad character's and no real plot. I clicked your profile out of curiosity(Not really i am a stalker), why do you have 402 anime in your watching section lol. Doesn't that ruin the excitement of an anime? Please read the bottoms of my "About Me" section, and you'll understand. |
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I See. |
Shrabster said: And here I was just going to say it's not story driven, similarly to battle shounen and ecchi. *looks through shrabster's list* *facepalms* How did you got to that conclusion? |
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renders said: Shrabster said: And here I was just going to say it's not story driven, similarly to battle shounen and ecchi. *looks through shrabster's list* *facepalms* How did you got to that conclusion? Huh O.O, how did he get to that conclusion O.O |
Nidstang said: You're asking for too much.pufss said: Nidstang said: They have 90% of the time bad character's and no real plot. I clicked your profile out of curiosity(Not really i am a stalker), why do you have 402 anime in your watching section lol. Doesn't that ruin the excitement of an anime? Please read the bottoms of my "About Me" section, and you'll understand. |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
renders said: Shrabster said: And here I was just going to say it's not story driven, similarly to battle shounen and ecchi. *looks through shrabster's list* *facepalms* How did you got to that conclusion? By watching them and observing of course. |
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Shrabster said: renders said: Shrabster said: And here I was just going to say it's not story driven, similarly to battle shounen and ecchi. *looks through shrabster's list* *facepalms* How did you got to that conclusion? By watching them of course. Well you dropped the mainstream shounens and code geass,I get it battle shounen genre isn't your thing.So you haven't really watched them o.0 |
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renders said: Well you dropped the mainstream shounens and code geass,I get it battle shounen genre isn't your thing.So you haven't really watched them o.0 I had to watch them before I found that out. |
ShrabsterJun 23, 2013 12:45 PM
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Holybaptiser said: Nidstang said: pufss said: You're asking for too much.Nidstang said: I clicked your profile out of curiosity(Not really i am a stalker), why do you have 402 anime in your watching section lol. Doesn't that ruin the excitement of an anime? Please read the bottoms of my "About Me" section, and you'll understand. Can't really tell to whom you're replying to in your comment o.o. |
pufss said: Every time i am searching for anime on MAL, if i see Harem in the genre's i immediately close the tab. I just hate harems :o. Oh and you forgot to put how extremely dense the main protagonist are in Harem's. You say that, but you have a lot of harems on your list. Kinda contradicting yourself there, ehh? |
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Holybaptiser said: Nidstang said: You're asking for too much.pufss said: Nidstang said: They have 90% of the time bad character's and no real plot. I clicked your profile out of curiosity(Not really i am a stalker), why do you have 402 anime in your watching section lol. Doesn't that ruin the excitement of an anime? Please read the bottoms of my "About Me" section, and you'll understand. I've started to realize that. |
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AstralAxolotl said: Marifrit said: AstralAxolotl said: bakemonogatari is in fact the best harem ever but to say it points out the flaws of a harem is debatable unlike School Days which was like a giant middle finger to the entire harem genreBakemonogatari is the best harem series ever written because it's self-aware and points out most of the inherent flaws of the genre, much like the author did for fighting shounen with Medaka Box. It's not "debatable" if you're an intelligent and active viewer who knows how Nisio operates. That's his thing. His genius is that he's able to craft his works in such a way that they can still be enjoyable to people who take them at face value. I mean, there were Jump readers out there who never stopped seeing Medaka Box as a standard battle shounen, and it was way less subtle in its satire than the Monogatari series. I would say it's the other way around, Medaka was more obvious than anything. It had a whole arc for that after all. |
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| Honestly, I don't care much for harem anime, but I won't go as far as to say all harems are shit, there's definitely decent ones out there. I like when the MC is clear on his main choice and are able to notice that the girls like him. No more than 2 or 3 female main characters are also preferrable and no 'open' ending where the mc either takes them all or it just doesn't say. I mean, I think the harem genre is stupid for even existing but if you're going to do it, atleast have some moderation. I think most of the bad harem anime comes from the ones that are based on games. |
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AstralAxolotl said: ...That's not "the other way around," lol; that's what I said. Medaka Box was less subtle (read: more obvious) than Bakemonogatari about what it was doing. And yet, there were still somehow plenty of fans out there who didn't get it -- not to mention all the anti-fans who didn't get it either. Oh I feel dumb now ;_;. |
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Neteyes said: What about the harems that don't really focus on romance--the ones where you're not looking for the guy to pick a girl in the end.Honestly, I don't care much for harem anime, but I won't go as far as to say all harems are shit, there's definitely decent ones out there. I like when the MC is clear on his main choice and are able to notice that the girls like him. No more than 2 or 3 female main characters are also preferrable and no 'open' ending where the mc either takes them all or it just doesn't say. I mean, I think the harem genre is stupid for even existing but if you're going to do it, atleast have some moderation. I think most of the bad harem anime comes from the ones that are based on games. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
| I agree with the OP (At least in the point I didn't reed examples/Spoilers) but I also have to add that there is another problem in harems and that is that in most cases you can tell after the first few episodes "He will either get with HER or it will be harem ending". And as I rarely like THAT one girl, or I like some of the other girls more, I usually go with hopes for harem ending. End if anime doesn't end up with harem ending sometimes I can find comfort in VN version of anime if there is one as in VNs you can choose with whom will protagonists end up with you can even see more than one version of the ending if you like more than one girl. And if there isn't a VN version of that harem anime than I find comfort in making fanfiction ending in my head. And as I play VNs u am used to seeing multiple version of endings so I just tell myself that ending that is animated is just one version of the ending that I don't like and that there are other versions of endings. And as I have inrecably good imagination that sometimes surprises even me it is not a problem for me to just set dawn close my eyes and imagine ending that I want, from the point where would I take a different turn from one that is animated to the end. I sometimes spend up to 7,8 hours just imagining the different ending of the anime (True usually 1-3 hours), it is pretty easy for me as for long as I can remember I use to spend at least 3,4 hours daily just imagining things (Not just things about animes but all sorts of things). |
YamiNoOkamiJun 23, 2013 1:27 PM
The real world is past the virtual world is future. |
| The problem with harem animes/mangas isn't that the official couple is not the one you like, but it's that the protagonist gets only one girl. It's NOT a harem if the guy chooses only one girl, it's just pointless drama. Put it under romantic comedy but not harem, unless the guy manages to get all the girls to love him and be fine with them sharing him. Seriously, THAT is the problem, apart from being unoriginal with the usual pompous and brainless white knight for MC. Sure, not every "harem" is like that but most of them are. |
Red_Keys said: This is why I think harems are good when they also have action and/or comedy. Introducing romance is just asking for trouble.The problem with harems, is they try to make it romance. But then they just keep throwing more and more girls in there for eye candy, destroying any chance of realistic drama and ultimately prolonging the romantic development. Latest blunder? Oreimo Season 2. Please, just stahp. (Can this even be considered a harem?) Before that? Haganai NEXT. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
gamer2710 said: What about the harems that don't really focus on romance--the ones where you're not looking for the guy to pick a girl in the end. If the harem is just there for comical relief and there's some other aspect of the anime that makes the harem part of the background then sure, I can dig it. |
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| Well,Shuffle is a pretty good explanation why Harem has problems.. That is first harem that I have seen to actually end. Usually every harem ends on halfway,with everybody happy and all. This one actually went all the way to the end,and showed what is really harem problem. As I have understood,the biggest harem problem is that you will break far to many hearts,and the reason I started hating Shuffle is because it ended the way it did. I hated the end pairing,and I didn't even dare to look second season. So,thanks but no thanks,I will tend to avoid harem. |
Dimitrije1606Jun 23, 2013 2:41 PM
| Ad Astra Per Aspera |
Dark_Chaos said: pufss said: Every time i am searching for anime on MAL, if i see Harem in the genre's i immediately close the tab. I just hate harems :o. Oh and you forgot to put how extremely dense the main protagonist are in Harem's. You say that, but you have a lot of harems on your list. Kinda contradicting yourself there, ehh? I do not have a lot of harems, i only have a couple. The only reason i am able to hate harems is because i have watched some. I should have no more then 3 or 5 harems in my list, i haven't checked it though. |
| Bakemonogatari is the best harem anime of all time though. |
pufss said: Every time i am searching for anime on MAL, if i see Harem in the genre's i immediately close the tab. I just hate harems :o. Oh and you forgot to put how extremely dense the main protagonist are in Harem's. I'm sorry but there are exceptions from that. One that I know very well is Haganai(Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai) . The MC , Kodaka , is not clueless he's just chicken . He knows what happens around him but he's too afraid to make a move and also he doesnt know what move must he do to be a win-win situation . It's called harem but if you watch it closely it's a hidden love triangle . L.E : Nevermind , I've checked your anime list . You have it in your list. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
pufss said: I dunno, from your list it seems to me you don't hate harems. Heaven's Lost Property (9), Hayate the Combat Butler (8), The Familiar of Zero (10), The World God Only Knows (9).Dark_Chaos said: pufss said: Every time i am searching for anime on MAL, if i see Harem in the genre's i immediately close the tab. I just hate harems :o. Oh and you forgot to put how extremely dense the main protagonist are in Harem's. You say that, but you have a lot of harems on your list. Kinda contradicting yourself there, ehh? I do not have a lot of harems, i only have a couple. The only reason i am able to hate harems is because i have watched some. I should have no more then 3 or 5 harems in my list, i haven't checked it though. Unless, you don't consider those harems. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
gamer2710 said: pufss said: I dunno, from your list it seems to me you don't hate harems. Heaven's Lost Property (9), Hayate the Combat Butler (8), The Familiar of Zero (10), The World God Only Knows (9).Dark_Chaos said: pufss said: Every time i am searching for anime on MAL, if i see Harem in the genre's i immediately close the tab. I just hate harems :o. Oh and you forgot to put how extremely dense the main protagonist are in Harem's. You say that, but you have a lot of harems on your list. Kinda contradicting yourself there, ehh? I do not have a lot of harems, i only have a couple. The only reason i am able to hate harems is because i have watched some. I should have no more then 3 or 5 harems in my list, i haven't checked it though. Unless, you don't consider those harems. Ahh, you beat me to it, Gamer. Don't forget Shakugan No Shana (10) and Shakugan No Shana II (10) with Shana and Kazumi going "I won't lose" "I won't either" every 3 episodes. And by the way, who the hell is OP? I see it all over the place and there is next to no one active on the forums with those initials! >.< |
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| I used to like the harem series, but I hate it now. It lost the originality, all the series have the same plot and the main character always is an useless sissy who never choose a girl. I loved Sekirei, Rosario Vampire and the first To Love Ru, but I hate this kind of anime now. |
I luv u |
| Yeh, I think the bigger problem is how harem anime are on the whole complete shit. Is this intrinsic to the genre? Absolutely. It's not as if I've never enjoyed a harem or think that good harems don't exist, but looking at my list I'm 90% certain of giving a harem anime a 3 or lower. |
InfiniteRufus said: I don't think so. People make the same argument about moe, but in both cases, it's actually other things make the anime shitty, from one-dimensional characters to bad stories to stupid-ass forced drama. It isn't the inclusion of harem/moe that makes an anime bad, it's the exclusion of other, more important things.Yeh, I think the bigger problem is how harem anime are on the whole complete shit. Is this intrinsic to the genre? Absolutely. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
| I think Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai gave a wonderful example of how a majority of harems end. (Excluding the game console stuff) Harems pretty much end with the male MC dancing with his harem in a field of marigolds. Happily holding hands and taking turns with the male MC. |
~ El Psy Congroo~  |
| The problem with harems: Harems. |
| "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream!" - George W. Bush |
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