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Mephz said: Mikasa said: Comparing the pace? HxH can't fit 4 chapters into one ep. Would be too condensed and many things would have to be omitted quite useless to compare the pace with a series that has had major complains due to pacing. Plus not everyone watches bleach, I don't anymore for example. --- Anyway overall disapointing episode, I don't like the fairy dust. I felt they skipped a lot of dialogue as well so I went and read the manga again to confirm. In the manga hisoka had blood all over his face, there was blood dripping from both ends of the arm, so no it was not sealed up. *Scenes changed, conversations moved from one location to another. *Skipped all parts when killua was bitching about the price of the tickets *Also Gon's reactions to it, "he's a millionaire, listen to him" *skipped the line when killua said that this was their "fatal confrontation/death match", a hint towards a future death, which makes me wonder if the death is going to happen. *forgot to bring paper and a pen *skipped hisoka's thoughts during the fight, that worries me for the spider arc *the dialogue for the commentator was changed *the dialogue between Hisoka and kastro was changed *last but not least, Hisoka shewing on his own arm was removed and changed to something like I now have motivation blabla How is it useless? It's exactly why I'm comparing. Bleach needs to have 6 ch. per episode to feel like it's normally paced. HxH chapters have so much going on, you can't fit 4 in one episode without removing something. As for all you've said, they barely changed anything important. More importantly, they didn't delete the fight altogether. And use a spoiler tag. Not everyone has watched/read HxH |
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| comparing shit with poop ain't going to make the shit look any better? Both of those series fall flat when compared with anime with good pacing. |
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Mephz said: comparing shit with poop ain't going to make the shit look any better? Both of those series fall flat when compared with anime with good pacing. Funny how much it makes you a pacing expert when you don't know the basics about it. Stuffing everything in episode = good pacing. Great reasoning. And according to that, this show still has great pacing, one of the best. Just because you say it's shit doesn't make it so, especially someone who keeps trolling these threads. |
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| "Stuffing everything in episode = good pacing. Great reasoning." I didin't say that, but I do think it's vital so stick to the source material, especially when you've said that you are going to be doing just that. The only one claiming to be a pacing expert in this thread is you, but frankly there is not much knowledge needed to see that hunter x hunter could be way better than it is now. Comparing it with bleach hardly makes a case when bleach is probably near bottom of the pile when it comes to good pacing, frankly that show was terrible. ps: how have I been trolling the threads? Do you call everyone trolls that disagrees with you? |
MephzMay 13, 2012 1:40 PM
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Mephz said: "Stuffing everything in episode = good pacing. Great reasoning." I didin't say that, but I do think it's vital so stick to the source material, especially when you've said that you are going to be doing just that. The only one claiming to be a pacing expert in this thread is you, but frankly there is not much knowledge needed to see that hunter x hunter could be way better than it is now. Comparing it with bleach hardly makes a case when bleach is probably near bottom of the pile when it comes to good pacing, frankly that show was terrible. ps: how have I been trolling the threads? Do you call everyone trolls that disagrees with you? I facepalm myself with Hisoka's severed arm about thy comment. And no it's not because you disagree with me, I couldn't care less for your opinion. Because you make no sense at all. It's because you troll. On almost every HxH thread I've seen so far. PS: I mentioned Bleach in order to make a comparison to help me explain something about HxH , no one cares about your personal views concerning the anime itself. At least not on these threads |
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| This is why I usually avoid these threads, it turns into a war zone. I thought Mephz made some good points, doesn't mean I completely agree with them besides the parts about the dialogue that was cut, but they were valid points. I am just happy to see the fight in full, that's just how I look at it. When compared to the brutality of the fight from the manga, there was bound to be people who didn't view it that way and would be disappointed, so I can respect that as long as they have some good reason behind it, which he did... at least in the original post, that's what I'm basing this off of, didn't read the others. |
| Manga readers, brace yourselves Mega spoilers: |
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| For the past few episodes I've been getting the impression that the pacing is off. The Hunter Exam was, imho, perfectly paced, but since this arc started everything has been going far too fast. Can a manga reader confirm? Or did the old anime just slow everything down to a crawl here so the vague recollection of that fuels my bias? |
Kiraly said: For the past few episodes I've been getting the impression that the pacing is off. The Hunter Exam was, imho, perfectly paced, but since this arc started everything has been going far too fast. Can a manga reader confirm? Or did the old anime just slow everything down to a crawl here so the vague recollection of that fuels my bias? So far almost all episodes have been 2 chapters per episode. With arc/mini arc transition episodes adapting 1-1.5 chapter (waiting 50 hours in trick tower, Gotoh's coin game, etc) But I think the older version had a faster pace here due to omission, so it's kinda weird that you say this episode went fast :P Since we're discussing whether it's normally paced or too slow. According to the preview, next episode will be exactly 2 chapters, from start to finish |
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Mikasa said: So far almost all episodes have been 2 chapters per episode. With arc/mini arc transition episodes adapting 1-1.5 chapter (waiting 50 hours in trick tower, Gotoh's coin game, etc) But I think the older version had a faster pace here due to omission, so it's kinda weird that you say this episode went fast :P Since we're discussing whether it's normally paced or too slow. According to the preview, next episode will be exactly 2 chapters, from start to finish Okay, maybe not this episode particularly. It's just that the whole climbing the tower + Nen introduction went by incredibly fast, in a 'here's your generic magic fighting power, and oh yeah they beat lots of opponents off-screen and now they've leveled up' fashion. I guess I just prefer a more languid pace in long-running shonen (although not necessarily to the extent that certain other series employ). |
Kiraly said: Mikasa said: So far almost all episodes have been 2 chapters per episode. With arc/mini arc transition episodes adapting 1-1.5 chapter (waiting 50 hours in trick tower, Gotoh's coin game, etc) But I think the older version had a faster pace here due to omission, so it's kinda weird that you say this episode went fast :P Since we're discussing whether it's normally paced or too slow. According to the preview, next episode will be exactly 2 chapters, from start to finish Okay, maybe not this episode particularly. It's just that the whole climbing the tower + Nen introduction went by incredibly fast, in a 'here's your generic magic fighting power, and oh yeah they beat lots of opponents off-screen and now they've leveled up' fashion. I guess I just prefer a more languid pace in long-running shonen (although not necessarily to the extent that certain other series employ). Oh, the older series did add some fillers (like the Darth Maul guy, and the elevator girl) and made it longer, they also pushed most of the explanations to an earlier point while the new series still has many to explain about Nen (mainly Hatsu) But all-in-all both versions are about 9-episodes long of heavens arena..I think |
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| awesome episode can't wait for next episode looks awesome!!! |
there76 said: Original was 8 episodes. This might go up to 10, but 9 is a sure thing. These are the next few episodes. 13 May #31 インネン×ト×シュウネン --> #31 Destiny and Tenacity (This was yesterdays episode.) 20 May #32 ドッキリ×ナ×ショウリ --> #32 Shocking victory (Will finish up Hisoka fight, and have the aftermath) (Maybe also go into Hatsu.) 27 May #33 ケイハク×ナ×キョウハク --> #33 Shallow Threat (Might finish up Hatsu) (The episode where the the thugs do there thing, and Killua also threatens.) 03 June #34 ジツリョク×デ×セツジョク --> #34 Revenge with his true power.(Fight against pig man.) That is already 8 for the arc. After that we still have the Hisoka fight. Shower scene is the ending of ep thirty two (If we assume they show exactly 2 chapters up till 55 p.19 which I think fits perfectly Ep. Thirty Three (Number three in my keyboard isn't working :P) is about Hatsu and the thugs |
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| i like how they remembered that no one can see the nen, as shown in the TV screen. |
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| Are some confusing slow pacing with them just not wanting the episode to end? |
| Great to see this fight in full length; the original version really rushed this fight imo so it's nice to see some improvements in the remake. Not that I'm complaining or anything but I wish they'd leave the gore as it is, would make it even more epic if they did. Hisoka never gets serious from the start unless he feels threatened; that makes him a arrogant badass |
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| The original series dealt with this fight and the censorship in a better way. I don't want this series to be ruined because of the censorship and the lack of visible violence... |
Hisio said: The original series dealt with this fight in a better way. Overall it didn't, because most of the people would prefer a slightly toned down but fully adapted fight, instead of one that is faithful in terms of violence but fast-forwarded at the same time. |
Hisio said: The original series dealt with this fight and the censorship in a better way. I don't want this series to be ruined because of the censorship and the lack of visible violence... By...removing it 100%? yea that's much better |
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Hisio said: The original series dealt with this fight and the censorship in a better way. I don't want this series to be ruined because of the censorship and the lack of visible violence... No way! the 1999 series skipped 90% of the fight, it wasn't even an adaptation, it was just a bullet point summarization. The new series is clearly better in many ways (well-executed and well-explained, paid attention to details, and animated the actual fight) |
| People need to stop comparing this with the 99 series. It should only be compared with the source (manga) |
- Signature Removed - The signature seriously lacked "It's a Sony" qualities. |
Mephz said: Anyway overall disapointing episode, I don't like the fairy dust. I felt they skipped a lot of dialogue as well so I went and read the manga again to confirm. In the manga hisoka had blood all over his face, there was blood dripping from both ends of the arm, so no it was not sealed up. *Scenes changed, conversations moved from one location to another. *Skipped all parts when killua was bitching about the price of the tickets *Also Gon's reactions to it, "he's a millionaire, listen to him" *skipped the line when killua said that this was their "fatal confrontation/death match", a hint towards a future death, which makes me wonder if the death is going to happen. *forgot to bring paper and a pen *skipped hisoka's thoughts during the fight, that worries me for the spider arc *the dialogue for the commentator was changed *the dialogue between Hisoka and kastro was changed *last but not least, Hisoka shewing on his own arm was removed and changed to something like I now have motivation blabla Actually, a lot of what you've listed are errors in translation. You probably read the scanlation, right? That was translated from a Spanish or French translation instead of the original Japanese. The dialogue in this episode was almost word-for-word the same--minus a few omitted lines/scenes. |
nooblet606 said: People need to stop comparing this with the 99 series. It should only be compared with the source (manga) People have tried doing that. It still doesn't work against the divine entity known as hxh(2011). |
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Anime_Name said: nooblet606 said: People need to stop comparing this with the 99 series. It should only be compared with the source (manga) People have tried doing that. It still doesn't work against the divine entity known as hxh(2011). It always happened when some 1999 series fan rant about how the new episodes delete or change things, aka how it's not the same as the 1999 series. Then people defend it by citing how the 2011 series is based on the manga, instead of remaking the 1999 series (that had a lot of fillers, changes and censorships). The 2011 series is trying to stay close to the manga but a lot of 1999 series fans never read the manga and mistaken the 1999 series as the authority. Loop that for every new episodes' discussion. People who watched the 2011 series for the first time never bring up the old series It's always the 1999 series fans who HAS to bring it up to trash the new series. |
kcacoMay 14, 2012 3:57 PM
Toto_y_Moi said: Mephz said: Anyway overall disapointing episode, I don't like the fairy dust. I felt they skipped a lot of dialogue as well so I went and read the manga again to confirm. In the manga hisoka had blood all over his face, there was blood dripping from both ends of the arm, so no it was not sealed up. *Scenes changed, conversations moved from one location to another. *Skipped all parts when killua was bitching about the price of the tickets *Also Gon's reactions to it, "he's a millionaire, listen to him" *skipped the line when killua said that this was their "fatal confrontation/death match", a hint towards a future death, which makes me wonder if the death is going to happen. *forgot to bring paper and a pen *skipped hisoka's thoughts during the fight, that worries me for the spider arc *the dialogue for the commentator was changed *the dialogue between Hisoka and kastro was changed *last but not least, Hisoka shewing on his own arm was removed and changed to something like I now have motivation blabla Actually, a lot of what you've listed are errors in translation. You probably read the scanlation, right? That was translated from a Spanish or French translation instead of the original Japanese. The dialogue in this episode was almost word-for-word the same--minus a few omitted lines/scenes. Exactly I have no idea what the original poster complain about... all these 'disappointment' that they skipped A LOT of dialogues when in fact, this episodes is almost exactly the same as how the manga goes. |
kcaco said: Anime_Name said: nooblet606 said: People need to stop comparing this with the 99 series. It should only be compared with the source (manga) People have tried doing that. It still doesn't work against the divine entity known as hxh(2011). It always happened when some 1999 series fan rant about how the new episodes delete or change things, aka how it's not the same as the 1999 series. Then people defend it by citing how the 2011 series is based on the manga, instead of remaking the 1999 series that had a lot of fillers, changes and censorships. The 2011 series is trying to stay close to the manga but a lot of 1999 series fans never read the manga and mistaken the 1999 series as the authority. Loop that for every new episodes' discussion. People who watched the 2011 series for the first time never bring up the old series It's always the 1999 series fans who HAS to bring it up to trash the new series. But the bad thing is claiming to not want to compare the 2011 series to the 1999 but when ever someone talks just about the manga, a person will then go "Well the 1999 series did XYZ wrong". The way I see it people here asking to not compare the two series simply want to have their cake and eat it too. |
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Anime_Name said: kcaco said: Anime_Name said: nooblet606 said: People need to stop comparing this with the 99 series. It should only be compared with the source (manga) People have tried doing that. It still doesn't work against the divine entity known as hxh(2011). It always happened when some 1999 series fan rant about how the new episodes delete or change things, aka how it's not the same as the 1999 series. Then people defend it by citing how the 2011 series is based on the manga, instead of remaking the 1999 series that had a lot of fillers, changes and censorships. The 2011 series is trying to stay close to the manga but a lot of 1999 series fans never read the manga and mistaken the 1999 series as the authority. Loop that for every new episodes' discussion. People who watched the 2011 series for the first time never bring up the old series It's always the 1999 series fans who HAS to bring it up to trash the new series. But the bad thing is claiming to not want to compare the 2011 series to the 1999 but when ever someone talks just about the manga, a person will then go "Well the 1999 series did XYZ wrong". The way I see it people here asking to not compare the two series simply want to have their cake and eat it too. I don't mind the comparison, but it gets annoying when 1999 series fans accusing the 2011 series got certain things 'wrong' because it's different from the 1999 series, when in fact it's the 1999 series who changes/censor things from the manga. The 2011 series actually got most of those things 'right' by staying true to the manga. That happens again and again on these discussion threads. How about get the facts straight first before trashing the new series? For example over at the other threads, someone attacks the new series for censorship because it didn't portrayed Gon running in fear and vomit after being punched by Hisoka. For anyone who's read the manga, you'd know the 2011 version actually stay true to the manga and character portrayal. It was the 1999 series that twisted the character for whatever dramatic storytelling (and going way too far). In the last episode thread, things like this happen again when someone accuse the new 2011 series cut out things (the so called things are 1999 filler contents). This is when the so-called comparison gets frustrating and pointless. |
kcaco said: I don't mind the comparison, but it gets annoying when 1999 series fans accusing the 2011 series got certain things 'wrong' because it's different from the 1999 series, when in fact it's the 1999 series who changes/censor things from the manga. The 2011 series actually got most of those things 'right' by staying true to the manga. That happens again and again on these discussion threads. How about get the facts straight first before trashing the new series? For example over at the other threads, someone attacks the new series for censorship because it didn't portrayed Gon running in fear and vomit after being punched by Hisoka. For anyone who's read the manga, you'd know the 2011 version actually stay true to the manga and character portrayal. It was the 1999 series that twisted the character for whatever dramatic storytelling (and going way too far). In the last episode thread, things like this happen again when someone accuse the new 2011 series cut out things (the so called things are 1999 filler contents). This is when the so-called comparison gets frustrating and pointless. That's great. Not the same thing I was referring to but great nonetheless. |
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| Dissapointed, that the arm-biting scene was left out, but oh well. :| That cliffhanger was mean btw. I'm excited to how "this special scene" coming up, will be shown in this adaption and it ends right before that. AWW MAAAAN! |
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Toto_y_Moi said: Mephz said: Anyway overall disapointing episode, I don't like the fairy dust. I felt they skipped a lot of dialogue as well so I went and read the manga again to confirm. In the manga hisoka had blood all over his face, there was blood dripping from both ends of the arm, so no it was not sealed up. *Scenes changed, conversations moved from one location to another. *Skipped all parts when killua was bitching about the price of the tickets *Also Gon's reactions to it, "he's a millionaire, listen to him" *skipped the line when killua said that this was their "fatal confrontation/death match", a hint towards a future death, which makes me wonder if the death is going to happen. *forgot to bring paper and a pen *skipped hisoka's thoughts during the fight, that worries me for the spider arc *the dialogue for the commentator was changed *the dialogue between Hisoka and kastro was changed *last but not least, Hisoka shewing on his own arm was removed and changed to something like I now have motivation blabla Actually, a lot of what you've listed are errors in translation. You probably read the scanlation, right? That was translated from a Spanish or French translation instead of the original Japanese. The dialogue in this episode was almost word-for-word the same--minus a few omitted lines/scenes. "minus a few ommited lines/scenes" so then it's fine... rolls eyes. That's exactly the point. Anyway obviously I'm referring to the english manga as I haven't read the japanese text. I'm quite sure the paper and pen line, the millionaire lines were in the japanese raws though, same with death match. |
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kcaco said: Exactly I have no idea what the original poster complain about... all these 'disappointment' that they skipped A LOT of dialogues when in fact, this episodes is almost exactly the same as how the manga goes. Not even close, the manga is flowing with blood at this point. Every single frame is more childish in the anime than in the manga, so no it ain't exactly the same at all. He also said that there were lines and scenes ommited, exactly my point. The anime is a childish and stupid version of the manga. I was actually liking this arc up till this point, that fairy dust made me scream in rage though |
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Mephz said: kcaco said: Exactly I have no idea what the original poster complain about... all these 'disappointment' that they skipped A LOT of dialogues when in fact, this episodes is almost exactly the same as how the manga goes. Not even close, the manga is flowing with blood at this point. Every single frame is more childish in the anime than in the manga, so no it ain't exactly the same at all. He also said that there were lines and scenes ommited, exactly my point. The anime is a childish and stupid version of the manga. I was actually liking this arc up till this point, that fairy dust made me scream in rage though See to me, violence censorship =/= childish. Blood doesn't add maturity. Maybe i'm just beyond that age where I found gore badass or 'grown up'. This is more like censorship for the new Japanese broadcast rules/parents. Beyond the clean up surface, the 2011 series so far kept the same wtf-ness in the manga. For me, the kind of REAL childish censorship is when 1999 series censored the three crippled fighters into regular guys in healthy limps with stupid scooter and devices (why were they on it? no apparent reasons at all). It's these kind of moral whitewashing that's childish to me. They're so afraid of having bad influences on kids by having our main characters beating up handicaps...that they have to omit the dark and disturbing tones of the manga. Or how the 1999 series changed Gon for not stealing Ponzu's tag, to keep him 'good' and upright. *roll my eyes* |
kcacoMay 15, 2012 11:48 AM
| What is childish about it? You seem to be the childish one. Every shonen jump anime is censored. I don't know what your fetish is about blood but get over it. No lines removed were important. But like I said every shonen jump anime is censored, you can't get away with the same things in books as you can in television. Besides I'm pretty sure Toto can give you plenty of examples of the 1999 anime being more "childish" Although your definition of the word seems unclear. The audience screaming in horror at Hisoka's arm falling off is something you definitely see in pokemon or shin-chan. |
| For the 10000th time, Hisoka stopped the bleeding himself via Nen. Just like in the manga |
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Shaduge said: He also chewed on his arm just like in the manga, wait NO HE DIDNT? When I've heard it's going to air in the morning I know this anime was going to fail. We are talking about a second anime here, what's the point of remaking it if you know you'll censor half of it? I also find it funny how they don't censor hisoka's pedo attitude, like they are saying blood is bad but pedo isn't? This is japan for you, they cancel shows with any sign of violence but never complain about the ecchi and yaoi garbage on tv Yea this is japan's censoreship. What's the point of the remake? Proper anime that actually gets the job done. This anime fails so much it's in the top 10 ratings most of the time. Also the chewing arm thing might be at the start of next episode but who knows, there wasn't any skin anyway. Many shows that aren't even in the morning censor things way more, Like how Nappa cut off Tien's arms, they...made them...lines... At least we're gonna see Hisoka's magic trick next episode which is the highlight of this fight. |
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Shaduge said: He also chewed on his arm just like in the manga, wait NO HE DIDNT? When I've heard it's going to air in the morning I know this anime was going to fail. We are talking about a second anime here, what's the point of remaking it if you know you'll censor half of it? I also find it funny how they don't censor hisoka's pedo attitude, like they are saying blood is bad but pedo isn't? This is japan for you, they cancel shows with any sign of violence but never complain about the ecchi and yaoi garbage on tv That's how most shonen anime are censored now a days. The anime gets better ratings than most other shonen minus One piece, Toriko and Conan. Check this out But Oh Noes! This is Hunter x Hunter! The greatest series ever! Censorship is not excusable even though they are giving us the whole fight and Hisoka did loss his arm! If you're still complaining, be grateful it's not anything like THIS: credit to SHINOBI-03 |
Shaduge said: He also chewed on his arm just like in the manga, wait NO HE DIDNT? When I've heard it's going to air in the morning I know this anime was going to fail. We are talking about a second anime here, what's the point of remaking it if you know you'll censor half of it? I also find it funny how they don't censor hisoka's pedo attitude, like they are saying blood is bad but pedo isn't? This is japan for you, they cancel shows with any sign of violence but never complain about the ecchi and yaoi garbage on tv There has been blood in the reboot... I don't see where people get the notion that there is no blood. The censorship outside of a few scenes hasn't been all that bad (mainly the flowers coming out of the dude's arms in episode 3, the circle thing in episode 5 where Hisoka killed those guys, Gon's fight with Hanzo, and last episode where the sparkles came out of Hisoka's amputated arm). There have been a few bad cases of censorship, but there has been blood, murder, and violence, I don't understand the point that "half of it is censored". This is no where close to the manga's brutality obviously, but neither was the 1999 version. |
Shaduge said: He also chewed on his arm just like in the manga, wait NO HE DIDNT? When I've heard it's going to air in the morning I know this anime was going to fail. We are talking about a second anime here, what's the point of remaking it if you know you'll censor half of it? I also find it funny how they don't censor hisoka's pedo attitude, like they are saying blood is bad but pedo isn't? This is japan for you, they cancel shows with any sign of violence but never complain about the ecchi and yaoi garbage on tv The new series change the chewing to a 'safer' back scratching...the idea is still there, not the same wtf impact but still wtf. You might not like it, but at least they're showing the fight. Unlike the 1999, where is the damn fight? It was so disappointing and yet you claim that's oh-so-perfect and not worth a reboot? The point of remaking? 1) HD 2) introducing HxH to a new young generation 3) a new interpretation of the manga because the 1999 series failed in so many parts in their adaptation. The old series censored and ruined many many things, including major stuff like main characters' characterization, cheesy fillers, moral whitewashing. Not to mention lots of crappy drawings and dated presentation (for new generation). Why do you turn a complete blind eye to these glaring flaws? You like your nostalgia then good for you, don't assume youngster nowadays (and some of us long time manga fans) having the same tolerance and ignorance. 4) It's a good story worthy of re-telling and $$ making. 5) Kids nowadays might want to tune in to something awesome like HxH on TV every week, now they can. And What censor 'half of it' you are talking about? There's only a few tone down in violence, but there's still blood in the 2011 version. Unlike the 1999 version that SKIP most of the Kastro battle, stupid things like cripples changed to non-cripple, Gon changed to be a goody two shoe, and equally lack of blood in most parts (which you suddenly didn't mind, and didn't think it's ruined nor 'censoring half of it') Like what I said up there, the censorship in 2011 is on the 'surface' stuffs: tone down violence, but the mess-up stuffs are intact (Hisoka's pedo, crippled fighters, morally ambiguous hero). While in comparison the 1999 series not only censor the violence too, but also whitewash the moral ambiguity and ruined the mess-up quality in Togashi's work. Yet you and many people like to ignore that and pretended the 1999 is perfect and HxH is not worth re-telling. Wow bleachjoj thanks for the list of shounen anime censorship. That's very enlightening. |
kcacoMay 15, 2012 2:19 PM
kcaco said: stupid things like cripples changed to non-cripple, Gon changed to be a goody two shoe Would you care to elaborate on these two points? |
phnsr said: kcaco said: stupid things like cripples changed to non-cripple, Gon changed to be a goody two shoe Would you care to elaborate on these two points? c&p from my other replies: "For me, the kind of REAL childish censorship is when 1999 series censored the three crippled fighters into regular guys in healthy limps with stupid scooter and devices (why were they on it? no apparent reasons at all). It's these kind of moral whitewashing that's childish to me. They're so afraid of having bad influences on kids by having our main characters beating up handicaps...that they have to omit the dark and disturbing tones of the manga." (In case you don't know which ones I'm talking, I'm talking about the the three cripples up on the 200th floor of Heaven arena, who lost their limps by others' Nen initiation when they reached the 200 floor. They're three bitter souls who looked to destroy newbies the way others did to them. Gon and Killua could have been permanently damaged like them if they didn't get stopped by Wing/Hisoka. The 2011 series emphasized this part. While the 1999 series completely gloss over the danger, omit their disability and just change these guys to normal healthy guys who fake the handicap by riding a scooter cart, or spin on a stick for no apparent reason. Faking disability vs REAL disability is a huge difference, the later has a more disturbing tone as our heroes would come to beat these guys up, and setting up the scale of danger high up there. "In the 1999 series Gon is a polite goody two shoes who'll help lifting the weak (ie: Leorio in the marathon session), who won't steal and cheat (Ponzu's tag), and would get frightened to death by Hisoka's punch. The director spend half of the episode to illustrate how Gon survived that great fear. It's a nice storytelling but it's NOT Gon. It's not the same person from the manga. Such actions completely would eventually contradict what Gon does later in the story. In the manga and the 2011 series, Gon lacks a moral code, and is a wild boy who respects the law of the nature (survivor of the fitness) and can be a selfish dick. When he got punched by Hisoka, he's not immobilized by fear of being overpowered nor dying like the 1999 series made up. Gon was most concerned about his wounded ego. That's why he sulked quietly under the tree and wanted to compensate by being useful to his friends. A boy who got frightened by death and power and felt victimized, vs a fearless boy who concerned most for his ego, that's a huge differences." "The 1999 series changed Gon for not stealing Ponzu's tag, to keep him 'good' and upright." There're more examples if you track down Toto y moi's comparison posts. |
kcacoMay 15, 2012 4:39 PM
kcaco said: "For me, the kind of REAL childish censorship is when 1999 series censored the three crippled fighters into regular guys in healthy limps with stupid scooter and devices (why were they on it? no apparent reasons at all). It's these kind of moral whitewashing that's childish to me. They're so afraid of having bad influences on kids by having our main characters beating up handicaps...that they have to omit the dark and disturbing tones of the manga." (In case you don't know which ones I'm talking, I'm talking about the the three cripples up on the 200th floor of Heaven arena, who lost their limps by others' Nen initiation when they reached the 200 floor. They're three bitter souls who looked to destroy newbies the way others did to them. Gon and Killua could have been permanently damaged like them if they didn't get stopped by Wing/Hisoka. The 2011 series emphasized this part. While the 1999 series completely gloss over the danger, omit their disability and just change these guys to normal healthy guys who fake the handicap by riding a scooter cart, or spin on a stick for no apparent reason. Faking disability vs REAL disability is a huge difference, the later has a more disturbing tone as our heroes would come to beat these guys up, and setting up the scale of danger high up there. I thought you meant those three, but I have to admit I never thought of it that way. I just recently watched the old version, and I remember being surprised when I saw the spinning tops guy has legs, but I dismissed it as a ploy to engage the sympathy of newbie combatants. They were all "wins by all means", so it didn't seem like something past them. However, I don't remember Gon and Killua ever finding out that those guys aren't cripples, at least not until after they fight them, so our heroes are, for all they know, still beating up cripples? "In the 1999 series Gon is a polite goody two shoes who'll help lifting the weak (ie: Leorio in the marathon session), who won't steal and cheat (Ponzu's tag), and would get frightened to death by Hisoka's punch. The director spend half of the episode to illustrate how Gon survived that great fear. It's a nice storytelling but it's NOT Gon. It's not the same person from the manga. Such actions completely would eventually contradict what Gon does later in the story. In the manga and the 2011 series, Gon lacks a moral code, and is a wild boy who respects the law of the nature (survivor of the fitness) and can be a selfish dick. When he got punched by Hisoka, he's not immobilized by fear of being overpowered nor dying like the 1999 series made up. Gon was most concerned about his wounded ego. That's why he sulked quietly under the tree and wanted to compensate by being useful to his friends. A boy who got frightened by death and power and felt victimized, vs a fearless boy who concerned most for his ego, that's a huge differences." "The 1999 series changed Gon for not stealing Ponzu's tag, to keep him 'good' and upright." There're more examples if you track down Toto y moi's comparison posts. Here I must disagree. Gon cares about his friends, so carrying one isn't out of character. For example: at the end of the Hunter exam, he refuses to take the easy way out and forsake his friend(s). Allowing Leorio to do his bit concerning Ponzu hardly changes the fact that Gon knows what will go down, and I don't see what would be accomplished [on the front of not "corrupting" the youth] by making Gon a nice boy, but Leorio a shady guy. As for the showdown with Hisoka, I think Gon _was_ very much afraid of him, as recounted a couple of times, though he's also pissed off because he felt useless and/or helpless (ie, his ego is bruised) - they just took their time in the old version, and we got some cute squirrelbunnies while waiting (I for one miss the squirrelbunnies.). Anyway, thank you for replying. In general, I like the 2011 version better, though I'm really wondering how they'll pull off the upcoming (auction / Spiders) arc. |
phnsr said: I thought you meant those three, but I have to admit I never thought of it that way. I just recently watched the old version, and I remember being surprised when I saw the spinning tops guy has legs, but I dismissed it as a ploy to engage the sympathy of newbie combatants. They were all "wins by all means", so it didn't seem like something past them. However, I don't remember Gon and Killua ever finding out that those guys aren't cripples, at least not until after they fight them, so our heroes are, for all they know, still beating up cripples? So what, those guys in 1999 series totally deserved it because they're just faking it (no worry kiddies!)? Not only that, the fake disability took away the cautionary tale of the consequences and danger of the nen initiation, and consequently how incredible foolish Gon is for abandoning ten when he go up against the spinning guy for the first time (which reveals his thrill seeking nature). Because...no one was ever hurt, it's all just a good clean fun kids. In the 2011 series, staying true to being damaged made those guys more pitiful yet scary, because the 200th floor of Heaven Arena is the REAL deal-- there are real consequences. In the 1999 version those guys just look stupid. There's no mention by Killua nor Wing about the danger of nen initiation. That censorship ruined the power of the characterizations and setup of the danger a bit there, that is all. Oh and the 1999 series switched the order of the fights. They had Gon vs Hisoka before Gon/Killua vs Cripples...it just doesn't make sense storytelling and impact wise. phnsr said: Here I must disagree. Gon cares about his friends, so carrying one isn't out of character. For example: at the end of the Hunter exam, he refuses to take the easy way out and forsake his friend(s). Allowing Leorio to do his bit concerning Ponzu hardly changes the fact that Gon knows what will go down, and I don't see what would be accomplished [on the front of not "corrupting" the youth] by making Gon a nice boy, but Leorio a shady guy. As for the showdown with Hisoka, I think Gon _was_ very much afraid of him, as recounted a couple of times, though he's also pissed off because he felt useless and/or helpless (ie, his ego is bruised) - they just took their time in the old version, and we got some cute squirrelbunnies while waiting (I for one miss the squirrelbunnies.). I think Gon carrying Leorio is out of character. He's not the type who would baby his friends, carrying Leorio in front of everybody there is condescending. In the manga/2011 versions, Gon respects and believes in his friends and would just observed Leorio on the sideline. I think this particularly changes of 1999 series bothers me a lot. The manga/2011 Gon felt more of a future leader type as he should (ala mini Ging). While 1999 series depicts him as an conventional innocent good boy. Conventional is the keyword...there's just something really typical and conventional the way 1999 series Gon felt. Gon stealing Ponzu's tag is one of my fav part of the exam, because that whole part IS about Gon's character. That cheeky expression and dubious action seals the character of Gon for me. So no the 1999 series changes bothers me A LOT and it ruined the characterization for me. And often you'll hear 1999 series fans complaining Gon being a blah character, how he's just the audience's avatar...and guess why.... Gon in manga is always awesome! Gon is still afraid of Hisoka in 2011 but he didn't feel victimized! That's the key difference. The point of the punch aftermath is his wounded ego, it's about Hisoka owning him. The way the 1999 changes Gon into a frightened, vomiting, traumatized victim is annoying. There's something really manly and dignified about the manga/2011 Gon healing his ego by hiding under the tree...I really like that part and it speaks a lot about his character. Again it's the differences between a leader-in-the-making, charismatic boy (manga/2011) vs a conventional child (1999) I don't think the 1999 series director get Togashi too well, he input too much of his own conventional ideas and change things around to tell his own story. |
kcacoMay 15, 2012 6:36 PM
phnsr said: Here I must disagree. Gon cares about his friends, so carrying one isn't out of character. For example: at the end of the Hunter exam, he refuses to take the easy way out and forsake his friend(s). Allowing Leorio to do his bit concerning Ponzu hardly changes the fact that Gon knows what will go down, and I don't see what would be accomplished [on the front of not "corrupting" the youth] by making Gon a nice boy, but Leorio a shady guy. As for the showdown with Hisoka, I think Gon _was_ very much afraid of him, as recounted a couple of times, though he's also pissed off because he felt useless and/or helpless (ie, his ego is bruised) - they just took their time in the old version, and we got some cute squirrelbunnies while waiting (I for one miss the squirrelbunnies.). Anyway, thank you for replying. In general, I like the 2011 version better, though I'm really wondering how they'll pull off the upcoming (auction / Spiders) arc. Oh, boy. The 1999 series did really distort your view of Gon. See, this is how "Gon cares about his friends". He cares about them so much that he entertained the notion of letting them get killed just to get Hisoka's badge. Fortunately (or unfortunately for Gon; see: 3rd page), he changed his mind... a little bit. Note the part "IF things go bad, I'll change my plans". He was still MORE concerned in getting the badge than letting his friends know they're being targeted. Have you wondered how much is the "bad" Gon meant that'll make him "change his plans"? Now imagine if Gon never met Kurapika and Leorio... This event was foreshadowed here: "Your son and daughter have been kidnapped. You can only rescue one. Select 1 for your son, or 2 for your daughter. Which will you rescue?" Replace son to "becoming a Hunter" and daughter to "Leorio and Kurapika". Which "child" weighs more to Gon? Twisted, isn't it? In order to get Hisoka's badge, Gon sacrificed two applicants (the spear guy and the sword guy). He didn't do anything to help but wait for the moment to strike. All this happened in the 4th phase. Would this type of person "cuddle" a friend in the 1st phase? Better yet, you said it yourself "he[Gon]'s also pissed off because he felt useless and/or helpless (ie, his ego is bruised)"...Would that kind of person who felt useless and helpless because his ego got bruised tolerate wussy friends and do "pity" acts he himself don't want from others? Gon is also the type who'll cheat and lie (by omission as he sucks at outright lying) if the occasion calls for it as evidenced on the GI arc. *cough*janken*cough* By changing the one who took Ponzu's tag/badge into Leorio, it takes away that part of Gon's personality. Gon was the one who made the negotiation (subtly making it appear that it's a win situation for Ponzu when in fact, he's just lulling her to get his target - Ponzu's badge) and thus makes more sense for him to take the badge than Leorio who, for some reason, suddenly wakes up (before the owner of the sleeping gas herself, I might add). This is actually Gon's way of justifying [to himself] he deserved to pass the 4th exam despite "losing" to Hisoka. From the moment Geretta got Gon, he knows he lost but he admiringly still tries to get up. Interestingly Gon, in his desire to not take "pity", really got up when Hisoka "gave" his badge. A person who's prideful would rather lose than take said pity but in Gon's case, his DESIRE for revenge is bigger. This internal debate on what just happened occurred when he was sulking under/inside a tree. So taking another's badge is his way of soothing his pride - that under normal circumstance (if Hisoka's not his target and he was not as careless as he was), he can pass the 4th phase just fine on his own. [edited to correct grammar/spelling mistakes and added stuff to help make this post have more sense] |
fanimangaMay 16, 2012 11:01 AM
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