Guilty Crown Episode 17 Discussion

Misuryu said:


Oh yes there is. Plenty since this is all his fault.

VioLink said:

Gai managed a small army without the use of voids or fear. Most of the main characters in Funeral parlor are teenagers around the same age of the students that Shu deals with. Gai is just a average guy the same age as Shu yet everyone in Funeral parlor respected and fought/died for him without complaint. Gai also defended people who had the virus or were suspected of having the virus from GHQ. Gai managed all of this WHILE being infected by the virus himself and having constant internal attacks.

Gai lost many friends also (like that girl who went with him on a mission) but he never went asshole mode like Shu. Though many people won't agree with me, when Shu refused to give Souta air while he was underwater I believe that was out of spite.

darthfanta said:
Gai managed a small army, yes. Many of the FP members were teenagers, yes, but this does not mean they were untrained or ill disciplined. As shown when Shu first joined the group, he was sent to a boot camp for basic military training. What's more, Gai was no average guy, he lied,cheated and killed to achieve his goals. He was no saint. As I have mentioned before, it was entirely possible that he withheld supporting the civilians until after they were KILLED in order to convert Shu to his cause. What's more, we never saw him defending the infected ever again. What's more, while Funeral Parlour was an anonymous group, with it's facilities and personnel largely anonymous from GHQ--Shu's kingdom was constantly under the surveilance of GHQ. What's more, there is also the problem of supplies. While Gai had consistantly received ample supplies from his patron,old man Kuhouin, Shu's group had to salvage and conserve whatever they could find in the ravaged loop seven. What's more, as Darklight mentioned before, the undertakers only respected Gai because he lied and covered up his actions and plans. They never knew that Dan Eagleman's attack on Kuhouin's ship was a reckless display of power arranged by Gai himself--all to secure the support of Kuhouin. People, intead of screaming about how Shu was a tyrant when compared to Gai, you should ask yourselves--what you would have done if you were in his position and what are the odds of success in doing so? Also, Gai did not lose ANY friends unlike Shu. The girl who died was simply a subordinate, her membership in FP does not make her his friend--just as Lelouche was never friends with anyone in the Black Knights except Kallen and perhaps C.C. Hare, meanwhile, was an important friend of Shu--she was the only individual who stayed by his side at all times barring Inori. Finally, what Shu's group lacked compared to Gai's was dedication. Whilst Funeral Parlour members were all volunteers to a cause they deemed justified,even ready to sacrifice their lives for it--the students were impressed by circumstances into Shu's kingdom. Most if not all of them just weren't ready to sacrifice their lives, they relied on both Shu and the power of void--thinking that they could get out alive as long as they had them. This overreliance turns into a point of contention when Shu enforces a discomforting system upon the students, finally erupts into widespread dissent as they discover that they were not invincible and that the destruction of their voids may very much be their downfall. Also,it could be said that Gai's leadership was remotely similar to that of Rider from Fate/Zero, whilst Shu's was similar to Saber's. If you have watched Fate/Zero, you would have known why Shu failed to command obedience whilst Gai did.

Black_Paper_Moon said:
I don't understand you people....
Also I'm glad I never liked Arisa, makes hating her easier.

GodlyKyon said:


not understanding what?

Black_Paper_Moon said:


I don't understant why everyone hated shu so much. Funny though cause most people hated him and now plenty seem to be all "oh well, now we sympathize with him since all the betrayal and the slicing of limbs". It's annoying that people didn't think earlier that he wasn't a bastard. He was doing what was best for everyone in his own way.

Also, from what I have read on the forums for this ep (only up to page 3, so many damn pages), people seem to think really little of Arisa because of her giving up her body. I actually completely understand and don't mind her giving herself up. She what doing what needed to be done (Giving herself to that pathetic glasses guy) to make her plan succeed. (I haven't read through all the posts but does anyone else think that the call that Arisa got wasn't on her phone? I mean, it looks like some kind of communications device that the military would use, and the window was open with it sitting there as if someone had just put it there.)

Also, why the Souta hate? He was messed up from the crystally stuff and wasn't in his right mind. That's not to say I like him though.

Also, anyone else find it kinda stupid they're all so annoyed at Shu after finding out that if their Void breaks they die? If they were in any kind of situation were their Void could be destroyed (like in battle or something) they would be killed anyway, they would just be shot normally (and were in this episode). If anything, Shu giving them their Voids to fight with gave them a better chance of survival. And if they weren't in battle the only way they could die is by dropping their Void off a great height (and the Void seems to disappear after being let go anyway)

And GodlyKyon, does the picture of Kyon in your avatar have him with geass? Because if so, awesome.

Oh, and did anyone else think Gai's hair looks whiter than it used to be?

GodlyKyon said:

ugh a wall of text... I am sure you are right though as you have Ichika and Charlotte in your signature

Black_Paper_Moon said:


I don't understant why everyone hated shu so much. Funny though cause most people hated him and now plenty seem to be all "oh well, now we sympathize with him since all the betrayal and the slicing of limbs". It's annoying that people didn't think earlier that he wasn't a bastard. He was doing what was best for everyone in his own way.

Also, from what I have read on the forums for this ep (only up to page 3, so many damn pages), people seem to think really little of Arisa because of her giving up her body. I actually completely understand and don't mind her giving herself up. She what doing what needed to be done (Giving herself to that pathetic glasses guy) to make her plan succeed. (I haven't read through all the posts but does anyone else think that the call that Arisa got wasn't on her phone? I mean, it looks like some kind of communications device that the military would use, and the window was open with it sitting there as if someone had just put it there.)

Also, why the Souta hate? He was messed up from the crystally stuff and wasn't in his right mind. That's not to say I like him though.

Also, anyone else find it kinda stupid they're all so annoyed at Shu after finding out that if their Void breaks they die? If they were in any kind of situation were their Void could be destroyed (like in battle or something) they would be killed anyway, they would just be shot normally (and were in this episode). If anything, Shu giving them their Voids to fight with gave them a better chance of survival. And if they weren't in battle the only way they could die is by dropping their Void off a great height (and the Void seems to disappear after being let go anyway)

And GodlyKyon, does the picture of Kyon in your avatar have him with geass? Because if so, awesome.

Oh, and did anyone else think Gai's hair looks whiter than it used to be?

GodlyKyon said:


Well... I was mad at him for being an idiot on several occasions, but never hated him. I disagree with Souta and Arisa though. He was more in fear and not "messed up" by the virus. Mob Mentalility

Arisa being a whore to get her way and betraying Shu(NOT BENEFICIAL TO ANYONE) is enough to make most of us hate her

Yeah, I agree with you on all other points, and yes it's the eyes of Geass

GodlyKyon said:


Well... I was mad at him for being an idiot on several occasions, but never hated him. I disagree with Souta and Arisa though. He was more in fear and not "messed up" by the virus. Mob Mentalility

Arisa being a whore to get her way and betraying Shu(NOT BENEFICIAL TO ANYONE) is enough to make most of us hate her

Yeah, I agree with you on all other points, and yes it's the eyes of Geass

Black_Paper_Moon said:


Ah yes, good old mob mentality. And yeah, Arisa betraying Shu wasn't really benefical, although she was probably doing it to get close to Gai because of her obsession with him and the rest were following probably because they didn't want Shu using their Voids but as I have already said, that makes no sense -_- Also, oh man, Kyon would be so overpowered with Geass, he could just make Haruhi listen to every command he makes= him winning life.

dczzz said:


Where you watching when the guy with glasses was squeezing Arisa's arm that Inori stabbed and he was going to report her to Shu for her for talking on the phone? She was backed into a corner it was either give the glasses guy what he wants (which was sex) or face Shu's punishment which probably would have been another Inori attack is what Arisa probably thought.

Arisa didn't betray Shu for no reason. When she first appeared on this anime she defended him after he returned to school from jail. So Shu's actions are what led to her wanting revenge.

Black_Paper_Moon said:


Ah yes, good old mob mentality. And yeah, Arisa betraying Shu wasn't really benefical, although she was probably doing it to get close to Gai because of her obsession with him and the rest were following probably because they didn't want Shu using their Voids but as I have already said, that makes no sense -_- Also, oh man, Kyon would be so overpowered with Geass, he could just make Haruhi listen to every command he makes= him winning life.

GodlyKyon said:

Oh yeah haha, Absolute control over the world

Another thing to hate Arisa is that her "love" for Gai is fucking BLIND

Black_Paper_Moon said:

Yeah it doesn't make sense, especially since she found out much earlier on that Gai was doing it all for Mana. Also, does anyone else find the sudden introduction of the U.N and them DESTROYING Japan to be a bit sudden and odd? I mean, in the ealier scene with them, one guy was like "So we abandon them?" and the next scene with them is the U.N coting to blow it all up, what the hell? Why not just walk away?

Black_Paper_Moon said:


I get that she had to sleep with him, but then she conspired with him and that was what lead to the rebellion. She had found out enough from the phone call that she had to screw over Shu and so she gave herself up and right after, the glasses guy and friend told everyone the truth about Voids. Which was followed by her off-camera doing the "Just as planned" face.

dczzz said:


After she slept with the glasses guy the first time she was already in revenge mode. And what she said about the voids breaking equals death was the truth. After everyone in school found out that carrying around a void is like carrying around your vital organs they got angry and joined in on Arisa's plan. Some students were already angry becuase of Shu's attitude towards them, Arisa's plan was just a way for them to ven thier true feelings against Shu.

Darklight0303 said:


The power of the Genome. It's a global threat and Japan has a monopoly on it.

Black_Paper_Moon said:

But they don't mention it at all, sure it's a possibility, but all they talk about is how much they have helped Japan and how it's done nothing, and Japan has been sneaky with reports. Also, this show doesn't really involve the rest of the world, it hasn't come up before that the rest of the world is going "Wow, what's that cool stuff going on over there? Fighting, epic, superhuman powers, people turning to crystal. We should either get some of that action or do something about it". The U.N stepped in to help Japan and do research, that's been pretty much the extent of meddling from the international community.

Darklight0303 said:


Well judging by info from the preview, Gai is about to make this a global thing

Darklight0303 said:


And without the voids they would have lasted a full 5 seconds against the walls and the drones.

dczzz said:


And without the students being meat shields for Shu he wouldn't have been able to make it to the tower. He used them and they used him its fair game.

dczzz said:


And without the students being meat shields for Shu he wouldn't have been able to make it to the tower. He used them and they used him its fair game.

GodlyKyon said:


The betrayal part wasn't fair

dczzz said:


And without the students being meat shields for Shu he wouldn't have been able to make it to the tower. He used them and they used him its fair game.

darthfanta said:
He used them for their sake. He 'used' them to get the majority of them out alive. He wasn't using them for personal gain as Gai was with Funeral Parlor.


Anyway, I think the U.N is going to blow Japan up mainly, as you lot have forgotten, the place is still a plague zone--directly threatening the world if the virus breaks out of Japan. With Keido doing what he did and covering up his actions, the U.N can no longer trust the Japanese without directly threatened themselves--which is why they are going to destroy them.

dczzz said:


Thanks to thier sacrifices Shu was going to escape also.

Black_Paper_Moon said:


Hold on, hold on. First of all, the students did pretty much crap all, they sucked, understandably. And second, Shu is so goddamn overpowered when he uses Inori's Void that he didn't acutally need them in the first place. Also, it's not fair. They willingly gave themselves up to fight for freedom, Shu used their abilities to get everyone out, then they betray him.

dczzz said:

Thanks to thier sacrifices Shu was going to escape also.

GodlyKyon said:
dczzz what the fuck are you trying to argue here? Because from what I saw Shu didn't need to do shit for the students to survive. He could have just got Ayase and his friends with Aya carrying Inori and him using Inori's void to destroy the mechas and getting out EASILY by himself. The students in exodus were little to no use actually, he basically did the mission by himself.

He "used" them to save them, when he didn't have to at all. Without him they would never had a chance to live and all crushed/infected to death. If anything they should be grateful to Shu, but nooo. They have to be morons and blame all sorts of shit on him.

Background bitch: "we are tired of you!!"
Well yeah? you know what? You probably wouldn't even be standing here is Shu didn't keep the order. I mean hell the 2 losers were about to take over from Arisa if Shu didn't and that would've been absolutely chaotic

In short: Without Shu doing what he has done(keeping order and giving out void) the students of the school would have been:

1. Crushed to death by the red wall
2. Infected the whole school and then crushed
3. Became a rape-fest and everyone will indulge them selves to the point there will be no more resources and died

What's your point you are trying make?

kamikaze_1996 said:
^ agreed

but knowing him he will probably be forgiving, saying stuff like he is still guilty about what he had done and that he deserved it, that's just the way shu is, and if he wasn't he wouldn't be my favorite character in GC tbh

Darklight0303 said:
Arisa's fault is that she is so fanatical towards Gai that she'd sell her body to a low piece of trash like Nanba to get his praise.

dczzz said:


First of all, chill out. If you are that inraged that you need to cuss I think its time for you to take a break from the computer. I am defending Arisa becuase I was sick of people calling her a whore. Btw I already said that they would be screwed without Shu and his power.