PandoraHearts
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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- The spoilers have been out since yesterday, so I thought I'd start this discussion topic here. I copied and merged these spoiler translations from Mangafox. Whoaaa~ Definitely an interesting chapter. 8DDD |
AmareviaNov 18, 2011 12:50 AM
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| LQ scans are out. After 8 years, and Lacie told others she doesn't know Jack. "Glen" looked different.. or do I misunderstood from another character? Lacie has a brother called Ozward? "Haruma" (that creepy man) with long hair? lol~ |
I ♥ Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!! |
| The blond Glen creeps me out. Imma say that right now. There's something off about him. And what does he want with Jack??? Looks like Lacie knows she'll die soon. Golden Abyss lights already around her body. Hmm. Really interesting comment by Glen that Lacie can see reality without confusion. (And her still thinking Jack is adorable inside. ^_^) Jack is, of course, adorable. He acts like he doesn't care that Lacie doesn't remember him, even says that he's happy that her flighty ways have not changed. He just accepts Lacie treating him that way without question; the tendency of accepting things as they are, due to low self-esteem and himself not really mattering, like Oz does. He doesn't even care if he dies as long as he gets to see Lacie again. But when she does remember him and shows caring, he breaks down crying, showing how much it really means to him. Him seeing all those unnamed hands reaching for him when Lacie touched his head is so nauseating and sympathetic at the same time. His perception of intimacy must be so screwed up by now. *hugs Jack ~_~* And Jack is like water again. Love it. Another parallel with Oz again in there being something fundamentally weird about him, and him not being all there. Wonder who else Jack heard this from that he's so affected by Gle-err-Ozwald saying it. (Ozwald: "You're like water." Jack: *splashes water on Ozwald* XD) Ozwald seems similar to Gil in his quiet guardian ways, although significantly more perceptive. I guess the previous Glen having the next anticipated Glen as his servant is common procedure. And of course I LOVE the yaoi hints between Ozwald and Jack!! And DAMN he's pretty!! Grrrr. Miranda is reminding me of Ciel's aunt in Kuroshitsuji. BEGONE ICKY COMPARISON!!! ~_~x Doesn't seem like Jack likes her much, though, just owes her for whatever help she gave him. Wonder what happened between her and Ozwald. At least if she wanted Glen's head, I could see that for political reasons, but Ozwald? |
| oh my goodness*.* CANT WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATION;D Gotta love the first gaze between Glen and Jack. coughlike love at first sightcough i mean Glen talking about Jack so...romanticallyfriendly, but at the same time harsh, making Jack blush like ive never seen, not even with Lacie, Jack blushed so much! Glen was very sincere on his words, and again the same quote we´ve all heard before with Oz: calmarsi said: Like Neiru said, it's interesting that Ozwald picked up with Jack the same thing that Break and Cheshire did with Oz, about him being 'nowhere'...I wonder what it could possibly imply...(and how do they even sense that he's 'not all there'?! =.=) i wonder when we will find out what that means. anyway, somehow my old kind Jack is back, im so happy i cannot express the words, since he was always my fav. Loved the way he cried when Lacie started to talk to him, and then she pat him on his head, such a fluffy moment. Glen being Lacie´s brother was expected for me since the beginning. What i wasnt expecting was for Glen to be the servant of the "real" Glen. So Ozwald was Glen. The blonde Glen is a bit creepy. It will make sense if Alyss and Alice are Lacie´s twins, since they have Glen´s eyes. (not saying incest okay, although it was a bit weird when Lacie blushed by the very mention of Ozwald´s name in the previous chapter). About Miranda im not surprised too, ive never liked her and always had the feeling she had a bigger role than we expected. Perhaps we´ll find out later that Jack was the cause of the tragedy of Sablier, but if that comes true, i still dont think he did it by himself. It kinda saddens me to see that by being her ally, Jack is fated to betray Glen (Ozwald). Also the revelation that Lacie know that she is going to die. If Jack found out about it he would definitely try to save her no matter what. And finally, i also really loved the colored pages of this chapter. Jack dancing with Lacie, and Jack´s colored pic of his young version, on the snow, holding Lacie´s hair on his hand. That one, specially, is so amazing, Jack looks gorgeous. |
ワンダーランド花 ♥ |
| Every chapter reminds me why I fucking love this manga! Every time I get surprised at something new! Glen actually being Oswald AND Lacie's brother was a surprise for me. You just get by with certain info for sooo many chapters till they change it randomly and in an epic way. You rly never know what'll happen next. As said above, real Glen seems creepy and I don't think I like him. Lacie seems so sad in this place. Oswald is so damn perceptive which can't say I'm surpised. He rly seems a genius to me but he raises questions. Jack... confuses me. I never had him for this empty shell he appears to rly be and I can't process it right. GAHHH so many questions abt the plot /o/ Every month is so slow T.T |
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Maffy said: Jack... confuses me. I never had him for this empty shell he appears to rly be and I can't process it right. There's a parallel between the "water" scene with Jack and Ozwald, and the time with Break and Oz. Oz was drinking something and acting like nothing's wrong (as was Jack), Break called Oz weird and not all there (as did Ozwald), Oz was shaken by it (as was Jack), then Alice stepped in to defend Oz and said that he's right here (and Lacie pulled Jack out of the room and said that she can see him and that he's still a nice person). Jack is no more "empty shell" than Oz is. What Ozwald described is the same thing that was told to Oz by Break and Cheshire. Lacie and Alice, on the other hand, see through that and see what kind of person Jack/Oz really is. |
| What the hell is happening?? I can't keep track of the plot anymore ;_; |
| Nothing is making sense that much...just who did Jack killed? Ozwald or Glen? So confusing! @ @ Miranda is crazy!! |
| 99% sure Jack killed Ozwald-Glen. Ozwald becomes the next Glen after the blond one dies. Everyone then calls Ozwald Glen. |
| I would pay someone on this forum to write a coherent, two-page essay summarizing the events in the manga so far. |
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| This chapter was so great *o* but I need to read the manga since the first chapter again to see the things under a new light |
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| I'm really in love with Lacie right now, I don't want her to die soon. ;3; And I love how Jack acts like he doesn't even care whether he dies or not, his expression is always adorable. Not so adorable in the end, though. And Glen's face (ugly Glen from this chapter) reminds me of someone else. Guess it's not from PH, but right now i'm dying to know who it is -cries-. |
LiinahNov 26, 2011 4:41 AM
| Miranda=Ciel's aunt. YES! I could stop thinking about it and waited for Grell to pop out. I don't know how to say anymore this manga is just amazing. And I love reading your comments. |
| Sorry for my English ^^' If you notice any mistakes, please tell me about it ^^ Thanks for corrections ^^ |
| Oswald is much better looking than Glen... But another revelation. I like Lacie's attitude so far. |
| So the previous chapter was "Jack" and this is "Lacie", I can't help but wonder if the next one is going to be "Oswald" or "Miranda". There's already been "Glen Baskerville", so would "Glen" be redundant? Or are Jack and Lacie just that special to have the chapters highlighting their relationship named just for them and the trend'll end next chapter? No way to find out until next chapter, I guess. The first color page with Jack was cute, but, wow,, that two page spread was gorgeous Although the last bit of the caption ("like a dream within a dream") made laugh 'cause of Inception. I wonder why the Baskervilles (Fang, Lotti, Lily, Doug) are in the same, er, window... As Miranda, though. The first bit of the chapter - with Lacie - does anyone else think that what she's saying has to do with being a made a sacrifice to the abyss? Or... Something along those lines... I'm really curious as to how Alice fits into all this - although, would it be sound to presume she's the 'lonely one' Lacie mentions? After all, Jack wouldn't have met Alice by now, if Alicce is even around. Jack was adorable in this chapter. I rather like this pre-Oswald Glen... Although he's so un-glen like I find it rather hilarious. As for Oswald... Oswald is a name I would've thought impossible to attach to him. But it seems to be his... I'm glad the theory that he and Lacie are siblings turned out to be true. Oh, and we still don't know why Lacie was wearing that dress. I guess it's not important, but I'm still curious! Well, it's Lacie, I guess she doesn't need a real 'reason', that might be too 'sensible' for her. Water scene with Oswald was rather interesting, and now mandating I go reread Reim's narration... The most interesting contrast between the two descriptions is that Oswald says it's like still water, while Reim sees a stream. Of course, Jack is probably a lot different between the two - nothing like losing your love and being caught up in a tragedy to stir whatever clear water characters seem to enjoy commenting on. Reim also says it's like Jack can see through anything, while Oswald talks about the whole Oz/not being here vibe. I somehow love the way that Jack just splashed water (it was water, right? Or was it wine?) on Oswald, and I can't help the mental image of Reim saying his narration out loud, Jack grabbing some conveniantly-placed, nonexistant, vase with flowers and water and splashing it on him. Yes, I don't think Jack would actually do that, all things considered, but still, I find the thought highly entertaining. Actually this whole chapter was highly entertaining... Except for the end. Geez, Miranda Barma's... Psycho. Well, I am very happy that we finally know her relation to Arthur Barma (younger sister), but other than that... You know, I didn't think she'd be this... Psychotic. She seemed a lot more of a silent schemer. Well, she still is scheming, and the end caption does say "quietly", but... Okay, I'm going nowhere with this. |
InezMaria said: That was a huge shock to learn about 'Glen', I thought that he was previous 'Glen', but then he wouldn't be with black-haired-'Glen', right? I'm confused :/ Blond "Glen" had black-haired "Glen" (Ozwald) as his servant, just like black-haired "Glen" later had Gilbert (who was chosen to be the next "Glen" after black-haired "Glen") as his servant. Ozwald became "Glen" after blond "Glen" transferred chains/soul to him, just like black-haired "Glen" (Ozwald) was going to do with Gilbert. Blond "Glen"s body then became Humpty Dumpty. When Ozwald became the next "Glen," everybody called him "Glen" instead of "Ozwald." Jack knew both blond "Glen" and black-haired "Glen," and considered black-haired "Glen" his best friend. Raemya said: The first bit of the chapter - with Lacie - does anyone else think that what she's saying has to do with being a made a sacrifice to the abyss? Yeah, right now I'm thinking "The Lonely One" refers to the Will that Lacie's going to "meet." Lacie's body is enveloped in golden Abyss lights, so it's like she's either dying or shifting to another reality. Reminds me a bit of how Alice was disappearing in chapter 65. |
Neiru2013Nov 26, 2011 6:50 AM
Neiru2012 said: Yeah, right now I'm thinking "The Lonely One" refers to the Will that Lacie's going to "meet." Lacie's body is enveloped in golden Abyss lights, so it's like she's either dying or shifting to another reality. Reminds me a bit of how Alice was disappearing in chapter 65. Hm, good point, and I forgot about Alice's disappearing in 65. But is the Will of the Abyss even... Exisiting? now? Or does Lacie know what will happen? |
| You're right, we don't know if the Will exists yet. It's my personal assumption that the Will has always existed as a neutral or impersonal force, but that recently it developed desires and identity of its own. Glen makes the distinction between the Will as the omnipotent "core" within all things, and then it suddenly developing a will of its own. |
| Goddammit its like I have to learn who everyone in this manga is all over again. Ever since Jack's more disturbing side came out on ch65 every chapter forces me to re-evaluate the characters of this series. I asume this flashback will show us everything that happened up to the tragedy of Sablier, its about time we learned the truth of that! |
NekoCandii said: So Oswald becomes new Glen after he's killed by Jack I'm guessing. 95% sure Ozwald became new "Glen" after the normal "Glen" soul/chain transfer ceremonies, not as a result of being killed by Jack. Jack later killed Oswald-"Glen" during Sablier tragedy. |
| omg...what???! |
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| SIGH... This story is painfully good, and I can never be certain what everything is leading up to. Brilliant stuff. |
| I liked the chapter but couldnt get relli into it cuz i was a bit confused...I wonder wat Miranda and Jack's relationship is and the New(old) Glen seems interesting |
| Okay, I read the translations when they first came out and was confused as hell. Now I can actually think. Wow, that description of Jack actually gave me chills. And of course, the whole twist with Glen not always being Glen was weird, but I think we're all kind of used to weirdness in this manga so okay. |
deadoptimist said: Though I think shit-flinging should also have standards - no personal, no behind the scenes. |
| SQUEEEEE~ Liked the new chapter. I love seeing the plot thicken farther, and finding that every time we get answers, they just give me more questions. I was looking at the speech bubbles this time, and found that Lacie doesn't have that extra special second line for the chapter until Jack leaves, when blonde Glen is holding her after inviting Jack to come whenever. The problem is I don't have any clue what to make out of it... I actually like this new Glen. He is curious, and has the ability to be serious and laugh at the world. His design intrigues me, with the bandaged hands and colored eyes. I wonder what happened to him.... Glen as Oswald... I always thought Lacie/Alice looked like him. I wonder what he did that made her pissed off enough to run away? He bothers me a little, he feels so... unreactive. I love the parallels between Liam's feelings on Jack and Glen's. I think people have said the same things before, but still. The way they both describe him as still water, yet with such different effects is uncanny. It also brings up images of the Abyss, or where Jack is waiting, to mind. Could it be some power or connection he holds, that he grows more in control over? So... Miranda Barma... Absolutely crazy. That's one character I'm sure is actually crazy. She never got Oswald/Glen's head, did she? I wonder what happened between then... The first time we saw Miranda, she is brainwashing Vince, with Jack surprised at seeing her. Did she plan parts of the tragedy? Was it revenge (or craziness. o.o) on Oswald/Glen? Maybe he was using her to bring about the tragedy. It occurs to me that the dukedoms we know least about are the Vessalius and Rainsworth dukedoms. Even then, we know a bit about the then situation of the Vessalius's, if not much. We know the basics about the Baserville's background, and the Nightray history, and this chapter we learned of the Barma's, but we know nothing of the Rainsworth's. In flashbacks, when Jack is talking casually about 100 years ago, he mentions the Barmas or the Nightrays but never the Rainsworths. Plus, we still don't know where Shelley, Sharon's mother and Break's sympathetic caretaker is. It's very curious... |
| I love Pandora Hearts, and this new chapter. I was reding this post and decided to go back and read this again, and noticed a bunch of stuff...and everything is so confusing.About the whole head thing, look at this picture of Gilbert...with a skull. And interesting insight on how we know so little of the Rainsworths http://www.mangareader.net/pandora-hearts/67/41 And old Glen(the blonde one) for those who are wondering looks like Joker from the Kuroshitsuji manga. http://myanimelist.net/character/17657/Joker |
ToshiMonster said: She never got Oswald/Glen's head, did she? Well, he ends up in pieces, and his head is in Pandora headquarters. Close enough? xD |
deadoptimist said: Though I think shit-flinging should also have standards - no personal, no behind the scenes. |
TheWorldIknow said: And old Glen(the blonde one) for those who are wondering looks like Joker from the Kuroshitsuji manga. http://myanimelist.net/character/17657/Joker Yes! I figured like three days ago after going crazy thinking about it. XD He reminds me a little of this guy too: |
GracefulDownfall said: Well, he ends up in pieces, and his head is in Pandora headquarters. Close enough? xD Maybe for Miranda~ |
| @Toshimonster, TheworldIknow: It is really interesting what you have written about Shelly and Rainsworth. I found also something: here I wonder how Barmas and Reinsworth’s researches of Abyss looked like and maybe Baskervielles made their own Abyss researches, too? xD. Neiru2012 said: Ozwald seems similar to Gil in his quiet guardian ways, although significantly more perceptive. @Neiru 2012, I really like your posts about ch.67.( they are as always very interesting) But I don’t agree with the part about Oswald and Gil. Imo, only resemblance between Gil and Oswald is, having child of misfortune as sibling ( it had to be difficult to both of them) But behavior, I think Gil cares a lot, he cares even about Alice and his mimic is so funny. Oswald seems to be introvert or even egocentric, he locked Alice in tower and I don’t think that he cared much for her. He seems to be, a cold person. He is sleeping, thinking. Maybe he is more smart or perceptive as Gil but he seems to avoid people and don’t care about their needs. These are only my feelings about Oswald ( I think, I don’t like him much, maybe because of the way he treated Alice and Alice hated him) but actually we don’t know much about Oswald, hope we will learn more in next chapters. I thought about that “where are you?” thing. Sometimes when you have to get through some painful or hard experience you are just telling your self that you are not here and it will end soon, and it is not you, who is suffering or something like this, and Jack was through lots of such experiences so, maybe he just accepted things in that way and as you have written it is connected with his low self-esteem. Just pretend to be not here and suffer. I don’t know if it makes any sense. And I like the way Jack reacted to Oswald words, so he is not so calm and distorted xD. |
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Neiru2012 said: You're right, we don't know if the Will exists yet. It's my personal assumption that the Will has always existed as a neutral or impersonal force, but that recently it developed desires and identity of its own. Glen makes the distinction between the Will as the omnipotent "core" within all things, and then it suddenly developing a will of its own. But Alyss and Alice are twin sisters right?Though Alyss did beg Break to free her so maybe someone else can take her place maybe Lacie was also sacrifised to keep the order in the Abyss or something lol sorry i got a lil random that thought just occured to me xDDD Also is it just me or is Miranda's obsession with decapitation kind of resembles the way Vincent's chain the Headhunter kills people?Is it possible that Miranda had a contract with it in the past?After all she meets Vincent afterwards maybe he learned bout the chain from her. |
Tamacco said: @Neiru 2012, I really like your posts about ch.67.( they are as always very interesting) Thank you. ^^ Tamacco said: But I don’t agree with the part about Oswald and Gil. ... I think Gil cares a lot, he cares even about Alice and his mimic is so funny. Oswald seems to be introvert or even egocentric, he locked Alice in tower and I don’t think that he cared much for her. He seems to be, a cold person. Yes, I agree, Gil and Ozwald are very different in many ways. But, as you point out, we don't really know much about Ozwald on a personal level yet. We just seen how he acts in somewhat formal situations, like in this chapter. And then later as Glen, with Jack, he seems somewhat neutral (although he does acknowledge Jack as a friend, I think). I don't judge his treatment of Alice yet since I think there's a lot to it we also don't know. When I was comparing Gil and Ozwald, what I had in mind was how they appear in formal situations. Gil is very sensitive and caring on a personal level, but he can also come off pretty stoic and distant to those he's not close with. Both Gil and Oswald are somewhat shy, I think, though in different ways. And both seem to want to be a loyal guardian to their Master. Tamacco said: Sometimes when you have to get through some painful or hard experience you are just telling your self that you are not here and it will end soon, and it is not you, who is suffering or something like this, and Jack was through lots of such experiences so, maybe he just accepted things in that way Ohh good point! Yeah, I can see that playing into both Jack's and Oz's tendencies to be "not here." DeadlyStarfish said: But Alyss and Alice are twin sisters right?Though Alyss did beg Break to free her so maybe someone else can take her place They are twin sisters, but it's unclear whether Alyss is the Will, or whether it's a force that bonded to her, and can bond to others instead of her. As you mentioned, Alyss' desire to not be the Will anymore suggests that the power of the Will can be transferred. So, I think the Will existed before and apart from the Alices, and I think it might've been bonded to Lacie, too (based on Glen saying that she's able to see reality without confusion). I hope we'll learn a lot more about how this works during the flashback arc! |
Raemya said: Oh, and we still don't know why Lacie was wearing that dress. I guess it's not important, but I'm still curious! Well, it's Lacie, I guess she doesn't need a real 'reason', that might be too 'sensible' for her. Yeah, I remember you asking this in the other thread and I don't think anymore it was because the place she was was warm. Especially because in this chapter she was wearing a long dress yet she was cold. Maybe she was using the white dress for some kinda of Abyss ceremony. Or maybe it was just some normal cause, she didn't want to wear some kinda dress Oswald gave to her which led them to fight and make her ran away from home before changing clothes. Now this leads me to a random thought, why the hell was Alice wearing those kinda clothes in the abyss? The abyss doesn't change your clothes and she was there for a few hours. Skirt doesn't seem like something the other Alice, Lacie or even Alyss would wear. |
| Terribly confused about this whole Glen/Oswald/Jack/Lacie business. |
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Liinah said: Now this leads me to a random thought, why the hell was Alice wearing those kinda clothes in the abyss? Alice is a chain though. Besides, some other characters wear pretty unusual clothes as well (*cough*Break*cough*Vincent) and no one seems to make a big deal about it. I think she just liked that design or something. |
deadoptimist said: Though I think shit-flinging should also have standards - no personal, no behind the scenes. |
GracefulDownfall said: Liinah said: Now this leads me to a random thought, why the hell was Alice wearing those kinda clothes in the abyss? Alice is a chain though. Yeah, but I believe she was sent to the abyss like everyone else from 100 years ago. So I presumed she'd be wearing her normal clothes, dress and those stuff. But since we don't know how she became an chain, maybe that's the reason why she had those clothes. |
| As long as we're discussing the clothes Alice was wearing in the abyss, I found it extremely interesting that back in chapter one, when Oz first finds the pocket watch and meets 'alice', when 'alice' is friendly she's wearing this other dress (that I've only noticed appearing again at Cheshire's dimension when an 'alice' questions Alice's motives), but when she drops the doll and changes, she's wearing the same clothes as when she was in the abyss/is where now. Sorry for being too lazy to look up all the pages and link them, forgive me please? Liinah, you're sig is awesome, by the way. If it is called a sig.... *is hopeless newbie* |
Raemya said: As long as we're discussing the clothes Alice was wearing in the abyss, I found it extremely interesting that back in chapter one, when Oz first finds the pocket watch and meets 'alice', when 'alice' is friendly she's wearing this other dress (that I've only noticed appearing again at Cheshire's dimension when an 'alice' questions Alice's motives), but when she drops the doll and changes, she's wearing the same clothes as when she was in the abyss/is where now. Sorry for being too lazy to look up all the pages and link them, forgive me please? Liinah, you're sig is awesome, by the way. If it is called a sig.... *is hopeless newbie* That's true, I haven't thought about that. Now I'm kinda curious. ;A; And here are the pages, old dress and red dress (?). Seems like Alice likes red, the dress she was wearing when she met Barma was red too. And I have the feeling that the one she wore in the Headhunter's arc was red as well. Oh, and thank you. ♥ You can call it Sig, but it's more known as Sign. 8D |
LiinahDec 8, 2011 6:13 AM
| Glen was actually the servant of the actual Glen? But this Miranda girl...I'm probably going to hate her even more >_> |
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| Kinda hard to feel angry at Jack after this chapter. Glad he finally found Lacie, she's just too sweet. Too bad she doesn't have long to live...maybe that will be Jack's trigger for the bad side.. Oswald is actually Lacie's brother wow, also that interaction with Jack was funny. Blonde Glen looks pretty carefree, although he seems to be hiding something. I knew Miranda wasn't any good but damn what the fuck o.O This manga really likes to play with my head, amazing! |
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| So Glen is not actually Glen and his real name is Oswald and he serves the real Glen? my head hurts And miranda the first headhunter? she collects heads or something like that omg |
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| Holy fucking shit. How could there be a plot twist in a flashback that should be explaining a previous plot twist?! Is everything in this manga even real anymore?!?! Now the "Glen" we know is not "Glen" at all! Was Oswald and Jack ever become friends??! I don't know what's true or false anymore. |
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