DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
xxchampxx said: At 7:28 he hears a scream -- which at least for me sounds like okabe himself. It's his scream. There is no doubt. Now, you have to ask yourself "what the hell does this mean?" xD |
| Fai chill, that "thing" Suzuha's shows to Okabe and Kurisu is an authentic time Machine, built by XXXXXXXXXXXXx in year 2036, created to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx in the future and it was entrusted to Amane Steins;Gate is a story that will keep on "evolving". I honestly can't wait to see the last quarter of the anime. If they did things right it will be epic. |
kaimaxJul 7, 2011 1:09 PM
 Visit this blog That I'm working with my friend http://randomnessthing.com/ |
revive4563 said: There is a worst type of VN player or wiki reader or something. Problem? Did I spoil anything? I just explained the theorem of S;G that is supposed to be in this episode. Hell, the anime team always skips those boring scientific explanation anyway. |
 |
Kansokusha said: revive4563 said: There is a worst type of VN player or wiki reader or something. Problem? Did I spoil anything? I just explained the theorem of S;G that is supposed to be in this episode. Hell, the anime team always skips those boring scientific explanation anyway. Yeah, they seemed to have changed what happened a bit too. I can't remember if this episode was around the time where Suzuha explains the Attractor Field stuff. Perhaps it was that other scene later on...hmm. Damn my memory. |
 |
DesolateOne said: Yeah, they seemed to have changed what happened a bit too. I can't remember if this episode was around the time where Suzuha explains the Attractor Field stuff. Perhaps it was that other scene later on...hmm. Damn my memory. In the VN Suzuha has already introduced the terms worldline and Attractor Field to Okabe when she communicates with him via mails under the alias John Titor. The eleven theories of time-travel at Kurisu's lecture, the workings behind the Phone Microwave, the 42" CRT as a lifter, the Attractor Field, etc. etc... They surely skipped LOTS of scientific explanations. =( |
|
killermike said: And1ce said: never gonna read the comments here anymore.... 5/5 on the episode though I know how you feel. The comments on this anime has too many spoliers.. even thought it wasnt intentional. I REGRET IT . From the head start you should realize that going into discussion thread will get you spoiled in some way. -Spoiler freaks he's the one that keeps on spoilering main plots, avoid them at all cost by not going to a discussion thread ex: XXXXXXxx dies~~~ -Spoiler scholars -Here's the guy that will try to explain your "questions", he will accidentally spoils you with his explanation. So, better keep those questions to yourself, because they won't spoil you unless asked to. ex: Q:"How to save mayuri?" A: "He then explains the whole thing which is not related to the current episode." |
Visit this blog That I'm working with my friend http://randomnessthing.com/ |
| Suzuha being John Titor is really not surprising... How did Mayushii become gel? Kurisu mad scientist = Love. Shinkansen~ |
| It was obvious that Suzuha is from future but like Moeka I expected Okarin to be John Titor not part-time warrior... This anime keeps getting better and better with each episode... |
| Excellent episode, every week is a pain to wait. |
darkziosj said: Kansokusha said: DesolateOne said: Yeah, they seemed to have changed what happened a bit too. I can't remember if this episode was around the time where Suzuha explains the Attractor Field stuff. Perhaps it was that other scene later on...hmm. Damn my memory. In the VN Suzuha has already introduced the terms worldline and Attractor Field to Okabe when she communicates with him via mails under the alias John Titor. The eleven theories of time-travel at Kurisu's lecture, the workings behind the Phone Microwave, the 42" CRT as a lifter, the Attractor Field, etc. etc... They surely skipped LOTS of scientific explanations. =( Kansokusha said: DesolateOne said: Yeah, they seemed to have changed what happened a bit too. I can't remember if this episode was around the time where Suzuha explains the Attractor Field stuff. Perhaps it was that other scene later on...hmm. Damn my memory. In the VN Suzuha has already introduced the terms worldline and Attractor Field to Okabe when she communicates with him via mails under the alias John Titor. The eleven theories of time-travel at Kurisu's lecture, the workings behind the Phone Microwave, the 42" CRT as a lifter, the Attractor Field, etc. etc... They surely skipped LOTS of scientific explanations. =( well time is money and they kinda explain it, on its own fast way like you said they skipped most of the sicientific explinations but trying to explain how and why most of thing works well that whould take most of the anime time And thanks to that we have people claiming that Okabe time leaps to same friggin timeline (Which is IMPOSSIBLE to do). I have not even touched the VN and I know why and WHY it is impossible, but thanks to the apparently skipped stuff, there are anime viewers who have no idea and still insist that okabe is in same line. |
 |
hikaricoreJul 8, 2011 3:03 PM
 |
| This episode was amazing, Finally Suzuha explains who she really is. Maybe its possible to save Mayuri after all? |
| kurisu "screw you, future me" xD yeah, your secret personal spoon is no more a secret xD good to see hokabe finally asked help to someone instead of continuing repeating time with so little difference to be unable to actually change anything |
 Fixes to make the Profile more bearable after "the Modern★Profile★Update★★Rip★Profile★" |
hikaricore said: |
KansokushaJul 8, 2011 7:47 PM
|
Kansokusha said: hikaricore said: |
|
hikaricore said: Don't u notice that the divergence has been decreasing towards 0.000000 with every D-mail sent? |
|
| It's very easily overlookable when you don't know to watch for it. After having seen the divergence meter in this episode and starting back at ep1 however.. |
|
| Amane....is...John Titor....? ....MIND.FUCKING.BLOWN. WHAT THE SHIT. I CAN'T EVEN.....*tries to make sense of this and fails* |
 |
| Rewatwched episode 10 and it shows the "satellite" missing from the side of the building right after she sends her goodby messge. Aside from the not so subtle clues they've been dropping since her first appearance, looking at things again in retrospect we must have been asleep not to notice the other ones. |
|
| This episode is basically a summary or even a rewrite of certain parts of episodes 11, 12, and 13. Whatever the viewer missed, this episode explained with some shipping and plot continuation. There is just one thing question that has been bugging me: If Suzuha is from the future and had knowledge of some of the events occuring in the current time since ep. 1, why did she wait until this episode to fully explain herself? Adaptation? Fine but her behavior towards Okabe and Kurisu in the first half is sometimes questionable. She sometimes makes it so obvious to the viewers that she is from the future because of the time travel theme. Also, if her mission is related to Kurisu, why did she have to go back to her time after failing to meet her dad? I just don't like how Steins;Gate was structured and executed especially with Mayuri. It could be better with less episodes. |
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
lazlain783 said: This episode is basically a summary or even a rewrite of certain parts of episodes 11, 12, and 13. Whatever the viewer missed, this episode explained with some shipping and plot continuation. There is just one thing question that has been bugging me: If Suzuha is from the future and had knowledge of some of the events occuring in the current time since ep. 1, why did she wait until this episode to fully explain herself? Adaptation? Fine but her behavior towards Okabe and Kurisu in the first half is sometimes questionable. She sometimes makes it so obvious to the viewers that she is from the future because of the time travel theme. Also, if her mission is related to Kurisu, why did she have to go back to her time after failing to meet her dad? I just don't like how Steins;Gate was structured and executed especially with Mayuri. It could be better with less episodes. It wasn't really a summery, recap, or anything of that nature.. with time looping there's going to be some repetition but it's not really meant for the purpose you seem to think. Time travel itself is a tricky thing and things have to be handled delicately. Not only would revealing herself completely blow their minds, but it would also upset their work and possibly further damage the impending future. Only after everything they've seen, done, and felt were they ready for this revelation. She may have never told them who she was, but there was too much at stake to keep hiding it. Regarding Kurisu, the events of episode 1 changed things on an epic scale, that may no longer have been her mission, also she never said she was going home just leaving. As for your fewer episodes statement... No simply no, there is no way this story could have been told as well with fewer episodes, we're likely to get cheated out of a lot as it is. The VN readers have already mentioned that numerous things omitted, would you rather a rushed 12 episode series where you can't even properly come to understand and care about the characters/plot? I'm sure you would have cried so much for Mayuri if she died in episode 2 or 3 instead of halfway through the series when you've become attached to her. |
hikaricoreJul 9, 2011 7:31 PM
|
| I didn't give much value into Mayuri in the first half of the series and would not cry at all if she died or not. I'm not really attached to any of the character or most of the series I've watched. I don't care if she died once in the first half and time leaping was required. As long as it is not plot convience by any means and makes perfect sense with little/no objections, I give my stamp of approval. I was puzzled though with the first episode and her screen time. The first episode was well-executed IMO but I'm not so sure about the rest. I just don't like a change in pacing and prefer it to be mainly sci-fi. I actually liked the light-hearted comedy but kept wondering when it starts serious throughout. I guess that it is for the atmosphere/setting and some entertainment. As for the length, what I meant by fewer is less than 26 but more than 13 episodes. I don't know if it is impossible or impractical. If not, then is it possible to not omit anything or deviate to certain small extent but maintain the current episode length? I quite sure that if some parts were removed, it can fit within 28 episodes. I don't know anything about Japanese TV channels and timeslots so please consider this in your response if possible and needed. Setting the characters and personal info aside, the summary came from Suzuha's explanation of the world lines. Some was given or hinted in certain scenes. It is for the viewer, not the characters. The new information was the expanded explanation of the divergence point and the base world lines, alpha & beta. Also, the Okabe x Kurisu tease/shipping or whatever that was in comparable in episodes 11 and 14. The explanation is time leaping because it is predestined event unless 1% divergence barrier has been passed. Suzuha's behaviour is ambiguous after the a couple of sent D-Mail. She doesn't have Reading Steiner so her behavior might have been better or worse in hiding her personal info and views. I agree that she did say that she was leaving (I remembered certain scenes of ep. 10). About her mission, I honestly don't have a clear answer. It might have been simply just looking for her father. She might also have needed to observe the Future Lab and SERN. It might be just my personal issues but the hints that Suzuha drops, especially about Kurisu, somewhere the first half could have dealt more damage than just Okabe's doubts and inner monologues. She is a pro and a time traveler so she should know more than anyone else in the current era about time itself or just the delicacy of it. (So you do know how to use the edit button...) |
ChavezJul 10, 2011 4:58 AM
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
lazlain783 said: Setting the characters and personal info aside, the summary came from Suzuha's explanation of the world lines. Some was given or hinted in certain scenes. It is for the viewer, not the characters. The new information was the expanded explanation of the divergence point and the base world lines, alpha & beta. Also, the Okabe x Kurisu tease/shipping or whatever that was in comparable in episodes 11 and 14. The explanation is time leaping because it is predestined event unless 1% divergence barrier has been passed. Suzuha's behaviour is ambiguous after the a couple of sent D-Mail. She doesn't have Reading Steiner so her behavior might have been better or worse in hiding her personal info and views. I agree that she did say that she was leaving (I remembered certain scenes of ep. 10). About her mission, I honestly don't have a clear answer. It might have been simply just looking for her father. She might also have needed to observe the Future Lab and SERN. It might be just my personal issues but the hints that Suzuha drops, especially about Kurisu, somewhere the first half could have dealt more damage than just Okabe's doubts and inner monologues. She is a pro and a time traveler so she should know more than anyone else in the current era about time itself or just the delicacy of it. Suzuha's mission? She IS John Titor. |
|
| Of course, I know that. Now, what the heck is John Titor doing here EXACTLY in 100% detail, at least in the Steins;Gate universe? Is there something else I am missing besides the information we know about the actual John Titor. Steins;Gate is basing its information on facts/theories or just something that has fair support. Should I treat her as the ACTUAL John Titor with the given characterization or something else? |
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
lazlain783 said: Of course, I know that. Now, what the heck is John Titor doing here EXACTLY in 100% detail, at least in the Steins;Gate universe? Is there something else I am missing besides the information we know about the actual John Titor. Steins;Gate is basing its information on facts/theories or just something that has fair support. Should I treat her as the ACTUAL John Titor with the given characterization or something else? Have you actually been paying attention to the anime at all? The series is loosely based around the legend of John Titor, or at the very least the fictional facsimile they've made of his tales. I don't really know what else you're looking for here, but this isn't like the animated story of the actual John Titor incident a decade ago, but a work of derived from on what was likely a work of fiction in itself and includes original characters. Suzuha (John Titor) is in the Steins;Gate universe because she is a fictional character in it, a fairly important character since she drives much of the plot even if only in name. Okies? |
|
hikaricore said: Have you actually been paying attention to the anime at all? The series is loosely based around the legend of John Titor, or at the very least the fictional facsimile they've made of his tales. I don't really know what else you're looking for here, but this isn't like the animated story of the actual John Titor incident a decade ago, but a work of derived from on what was likely a work of fiction in itself and includes original characters. Suzuha (John Titor) is in the Steins;Gate universe because she is a fictional character in it, a fairly important character since she drives much of the plot even if only in name. Okies? Ditto. Steins;Gate is a series that one will probably miss a lot of details if he/she hasn't been paying extreme attention. And the hints in the anime adaptation are very obvious already compared to its VN counterpart. |
|
| I don't know anything its V.N. counterpart and wasn't giving my extreme attention in every detail in every episode of it. I'm treating them seperately as standalones despite their similarity which I do not have an idea of. Regarding this anime title, I haven't been into the forum discussions before this. I'm simply relying on what I know. Please do consider this and no insults for my ignorance and questionable claims. Just constructive critiscism. I know that this series is a work of fiction and John Titor is important (time travel, mentioned since the first half of the series, communication between this and Okabe). Rin Okabe is the main character and our POV. I'm mainly looking at his perspective and the general structure of this show. If I sounded like Suzuha is THE main character and EVERYTHING revolved around her or just her pseudonym, then I apologize for giving you the idea of such. I also don't know what I am doing except posting my views. If it wasn't mentioned or hinted before, I don't like very obvious answers and might have ignored them for some reason as a result. Thank for your answers and giving your time in criticizing my statements. |
_laz_Jul 10, 2011 6:42 AM
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
| Wow! Did NOT expect Suzuha to actually be John Titor. Thought she was going to be his daughter. Well played, Steins;Gate. Well played. And the "satellite" that crashed is really her time travel machine? Haha. And god, Okabe is an idiot for only NOW just asking for help. Seriously, that'd be the first thing I did when going back in time. I still think Suzuha is Okabe's daughter. And still wondering why she hates Makise, who wasn't working for SERN. Why didn't Suzuha warn them about Moeka? Did the two even actually meet? (I can't remember.) And who is FB!? Gahhh now I need to wait a week. T_T |
yamakasi said: I still think Suzuha is Okabe's daughter. A Then you have not been following the show. The show has already pretty much thrown in the face to the viewers on who is her father. |
|
| WOW this a surprising revelation John Titor is Suzuha O_O !!! |
 |
| There is just one more thing that has been bugging me. Sometime after 18.5 minutes of this episode, Suzuha comes out of nowhere and answered Okabe and Kurisu's questions. Based on her answers, she overheard their conversation. Whether she was observing their behaviour or it was just a coincidence, It might just a trivial matter but I don't much backup for her sudden appearance. Her replies are, without a doubt, prove that she is John Titor. Heck, there might have been no need for this declaration (AUDIENCE ONLY). For the characters though, sure. Her entire explanation is fine. Anyone observing her behavior probably saw the last plot twist (show only) coming before the time leaping. My question about the episode length and content of this show hasn't been answered yet. We're in the second half of the show right now and I find the change of pacing since the time leap & Mayuri arc quite sudden. I hope that I'm not the only one else finds the show's structure to be somewhat unbalanced or strange. Fai said: yamakasi said: I still think Suzuha is Okabe's daughter. A Then you have not been following the show. The show has already pretty much thrown in the face to the viewers on who is her father. By the way, Suzuha is not Okabe's daughter. That defeats the purpose of the tenth episode. Why would she leave if she found her father? Did I miss some detail because I recall that she herself stated that if she doesn't find her father, she is just leaving. Daru as her father makes way more sense but I'll leave it for later. I don't want to state that he is unquestionably, without a doubt, 100% Suzuha's father. There are still 10 episodes left. |
_laz_Jul 10, 2011 9:55 AM
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
| Oh my god, this show is so awesome. If you think about it it''s actually very logical Suzuha is John Titor, but they made the show as if was almost impossible to think about it. They've really done a great job on that. And Kurisu was so damn cute, and one of the best tsundere's ever. Now I understand why the VN is so popular. |
| I may be blowing my own horn a little but in this occasion you say, I TOLD YOU SO!(No i never played the game i don't even have a X-box) Following conversation about a month ago: Monad said: Oosran said: Mogami-kun said: Theoretically speaking, that would make for one enormous twist.I wonder if Suzuha is actually Mr. Brown's daughter from the future, it would be a nice touch. Just sayin'. I am thinking that she may be Titor. She does come from the future after all. Damn i nailed that in the head! Anyway that probably means that in the first episode before the D-mail where her time machine landed just fine on the roof she is probably the one that killed Kurisu. And this Okabe will go back using her time machine and speek to Kurisu from first episode and that's when he talked to her and tried to tell her something but never got the time and she was later asking the current time Okabe what he was trying to say. Also the scream heard when she was hurt it was this future Okabe's voice. Loved Kurisu evil laugh attempt. That was so funny ans sweet when she blushed and gave him her hand. They make such a nice couple. Another funny moment was when she didn't believe he was from five hours into the future and wanted to smack her. And when he reviled that fork-spoon thing and she said "Damn you me from the future.." lol. Btw, what was that fork-spoon thing? Does anyone know? |
| Great stuff. Hard to keep up, but this is just so interesting! |
 |
| Nicely done, do not regret picking this up. |
| I was thinking this since Mayuri died: Can't Okabe send a D-mail into the past to massively alter the world line, again? |
| オタクなんじゃねぃよ I'm not an otaku. |
Sigsig said: I was thinking this since Mayuri died: Can't Okabe send a D-mail into the past to massively alter the world line, again? Thatl is riskier than time leap. It is harder to control a random person who received the text than oneself. Besides, they themselves don't know what is the base point of the current world line. If they miss it, they might put themselves in a worse situation. IBM 5100 is out of their reach based on the current world line and time. I'm quite certain that Okabe still remembers when it all started. If the spoilers and theories are true, then everything will depend on the event in first episode or the base point. After all, this is about time travel. I'm ignoring most of what I've known about its VN counterpart. I'm discussing only the anime adaptation. |
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
| Damn, that was pretty awesome ;D |
| lightness vs. darkness Nani mo kamo wo hoshigatteita Mayoeru mono no chikai Mada miru sekai o tsukuridasu koto Kuchi hateteiku |
| One interesting thing not mentioned (or i missed it) is what Moeka said when Okabe held a gun to hear head. About her part-time job, arc rewrite. What does that mean? Cleaning up the mess other people left behind (from FBs point of view)? Changing word lines, but not by time travel, but by more traditonal methodes like killing people? We got one part-time jobber already, Suzuha. Both Suzuha and Moeka act weird all the time, and i'd say the fight in the previous episode(s) had more to it than what we saw. I also don't think Suzuha revealed everthing she does know yet. Or better, she did reveal nearly nothing She knew about the attack (though it's unclear if she knew all along, or just the few minutes before when she realized something and left), so she knows whats going to happen in great detail (compared to only having heard about it from someone), yet she did not say anything about why she came to the past/present, nor did she say anything about Moeka, SERN etc. She only explained the world lines and it's implications, which is something Okabe and Kurisu nearly got right already, and revealed herself as John Titor, which does not even have to be true, she may have just assumed that role to make things easier (as it is not yet explained what her mission is) Probably going to change, now that she decided to help them. |
NwAurion said: One interesting thing not mentioned (or i missed it) is what Moeka said when Okabe held a gun to hear head. About her part-time job, arc rewrite. What does that mean? Cleaning up the mess other people left behind (from FBs point of view)? Changing word lines, but not by time travel, but by more traditonal methodes like killing people? We got one part-time jobber already, Suzuha. Both Suzuha and Moeka act weird all the time, and i'd say the fight in the previous episode(s) had more to it than what we saw. I also don't think Suzuha revealed everthing she does know yet. Or better, she did reveal nearly nothing She knew about the attack (though it's unclear if she knew all along, or just the few minutes before when she realized something and left), so she knows whats going to happen in great detail (compared to only having heard about it from someone), yet she did not say anything about why she came to the past/present, nor did she say anything about Moeka, SERN etc. She only explained the world lines and it's implications, which is something Okabe and Kurisu nearly got right already, and revealed herself as John Titor, which does not even have to be true, she may have just assumed that role to make things easier (as it is not yet explained what her mission is) Probably going to change, now that she decided to help them. Arc Rewrite is the press where Moeka has been working, as a part-time editor. Nothing special. John Titor said that he wants to erase the dystopian future and sees Okabe as a messiah for he's the only one to have Reading Steiner. Suzuha said she only stops by Akihabara to look for her father. Suzuha = John Titor. Bingo? |
|
| Already figured out she was John Titor a few episodes ago. Though I wasn't sure if it was her or her father. Another bloody good episode. Gotta love how Kurisu didn't believe Okabe after he went back in time. |
 |
| Aw, the KurisuxOkabe scene was really sweet. With the time machine shown, I wonder if we get an explanation as to how KurisuTINA survived in this timeline at the beginning. If I recall correctly that was never explained. Wait a sec! Maybe after she died that whole divergence was accomplished, actually saving her. So it IS possible to save Mayushii, YES! I wish Okabe shot Moeka. I know he is not the guy to do it, but it would have been a bit satisfying to see her brains splash on the wall. Aim for her head, she might be missing an organ in her chest. 5/5, the waiting for the next episode is killing me. Edit: How could I have forgotten...KurisuTINA's mad scientist impression is simply PRICELESS. Absolutely loved it. |
Mogami-kunJul 11, 2011 2:56 AM
Mogami-kun said: With the time machine shown, I wonder if we get an explanation as to how KurisuTINA survived in this timeline at the beginning. If I recall correctly that was never explained. Just means she wasn't fated to die. Her dying was an option in this world line. A persons life doesn't have to be the focal point of a world line. Just so happens the one they're on is wanting Mayuri to die. It was explained very well in this episode... |
Day2Dream said: Mogami-kun said: With the time machine shown, I wonder if we get an explanation as to how KurisuTINA survived in this timeline at the beginning. If I recall correctly that was never explained. Just means she wasn't fated to die. Her dying was an option in this world line. A persons life doesn't have to be the focal point of a world line. Just so happens the one they're on is wanting Mayuri to die. It was explained very well in this episode... No. She's deader than dead. And The Zombie is alive and kicking in this worldline. |
|
Kansokusha said: Day2Dream said: Mogami-kun said: With the time machine shown, I wonder if we get an explanation as to how KurisuTINA survived in this timeline at the beginning. If I recall correctly that was never explained. Just means she wasn't fated to die. Her dying was an option in this world line. A persons life doesn't have to be the focal point of a world line. Just so happens the one they're on is wanting Mayuri to die. It was explained very well in this episode... No. She's deader than dead. And The Zombie is alive and kicking in this worldline. I don't know about "The Zombie" but Kurisu can still die. They are attempting to change Mayuri's fate so something else has to replace that event. She did die in the first episode which was her fate. |
| The threat is stronger than the execution. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Samu-tan - Apr 3, 2011 |
567 |
by Myriad2
»»
Yesterday, 3:23 AM |
|
» Watch order (Again) ( 1 2 )akaivikram - Aug 8 |
54 |
by ScaryOwl
»»
Sep 13, 7:55 AM |
|
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Yumekichi11 - Jun 7, 2011 |
283 |
by Tacitus_1
»»
Sep 9, 3:48 PM |
|
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )BladedWarrior - May 31, 2011 |
427 |
by Tacitus_1
»»
Sep 9, 3:12 PM |
|
Poll: » Steins;Gate Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )shuncchi - May 24, 2011 |
326 |
by Tacitus_1
»»
Sep 9, 2:06 PM |