Do you think Daima might have been better off as a new IP?

Dragon Ball Z would have been better off as a new IP.

Personally I liked re-demoning the Namekians after the whole space thing made them simply seem like aliens and the whole fact that Buu is stated to break down Potara fusions (giving mortals a time limit in Super was gross and totally ruined Potara fusion) but beyond that things just are seeming dumb to me. A knowledgeable warrior in the demon realm doesn't even know what Ki IS period? Supreme Kais are from the Demon Realm? The degree of inconsistency of the de-ageing wish to get comedic effect is also kinda annoying, things like Dende shouldn't be that small and we've seen Namekian newborns with more sense about them then he had. I dunno... Really getting the feeling Toriyama should have just wrote something fresh from the ground up.

Dragon Ball Z would have been better off as a new IP.

@Sasori_Nagashi You came to the journey with the cup full, empty it first.


Nobody knows exactly what Ki is, the Saiyans were the most advanced race to master the Ki and even them needed a glass to read the Ki power of a creature.


Not sure I get your point here, so far, everybody has been from somewhere. Supreme Kais even they were afraid to die.

Your preconceptions are getting in the way of enjoying what the original creator prepared for you, as if you know more than he does about his own work.

The way I look at modern Dragon Ball is that every series and movie takes place in it's own separate canon. That's the only way to easily explain all of the inconsistencies between everything. Honestly, most of the inconsistencies relate to the Dragon Ball Super TV series, which is what Toriyama was least involved in. I don't know if the "Toriyama forgot" excuse is fair since there were other entities involved in writing it.

@H_DANILO One would assume being all over the hierarchy of deities and even being directly tied in with the Gods of Destruction that the Kai would come from Otherworld originally and I believe there was some lore suggesting that but it was from sketchy sources, maybe a data book or something.

Not understanding the nature of Ki exactly and not knowing what it is period when you know they have direct knowledge of at least two ki users (Boo and Dabura) makes zero sense whatsoever. Period. No excuses are squaring that circle. The best argument you could make is "it's supposed to be more comedic in nature so stop poking so many holes.

@Sasori_Nagashi The earth only had 1 master that knew Ki, that was Mr Kame. Dabura, Babidi and Boo were supreme creatures of this realm, literally among the kings, how do you think they got to be the top of a makai? Through power that most people don't understand.

Unfortunately you watched too much Super and thinks everything is revolved around power, and everyone is strong in the universe(or even multi-verse, yeap, that's how f.ed up this series is getting).

You don't understand Ki yourself, how does boo transform people into chocolate? How does shenlong work? Stop trying to be the know it all and enjoy what the author prepared for you.

@H_DANILO I fucking hate Super with all my soul but if making assumptions helps you, go for it. Super is hot diarrhoea shat out purely for money, which at least Daima has some soul in it not just pure greed as motivation. You mention how fucked up the series is getting but that's kinda my point. Daima is contributing to that.

This is a little off-topic from discussing Daima strictly, but personally my ideal "stopping point" for the entire series was after Goku beat Freeza on Namek after releasing an ancient legend. Everything after that point in the franchise has been mostly downhill in my mind. That was a legendary moment and both Goku and Freeza should have died then and there on Namek and either the story end (ideally this) or continue with Gohan without Goku returning.

I mean... An earth scientist making multiple mechanical beings stronger than the "emperor of the universe" and strongest being of all time up until then was pretty dumb, even if Cell is a cool villain lmao.

edit for his edit: I understand Ki perfectly fine friend. Boo uses both Ki AND Magic. Shenron operates on Magic. There is a clearly defined difference between the two in the series.

@Sasori_Nagashi 100% agree with everything you said

Can't lie, Cell and Boo were great to watch, but weren't exactly what Dragon Ball was meant to be, I see Dragon Ball Daima as a redemption arc, this is toriyama last wish before passing away, he wanted to go back to "Dragon Quest" soul that Dragon Ball had, and it's peak.

Imagine if they'd made a Chrono Trigger Anime?



That might have done pretty well, maybe. It got that Dragon Ball vibe but also it from a historic JRPG.

@AnimePedestrian this is genuinely a great idea, I hope they do it one day! Feels unlikely tho, since even the Dragon Quest anime have struggled to reach the mainstream audience.

Dude, what are you talking about? Half of Dragon Ball arcs are tournaments. Sure, the other half are about the Dragon Balls, but so are the Saiyajin and Freeza arcs. And those 2 are like... Half of the Z portion too.

Dragon Ball wasn't really about adventure. It was a gag adventure for 1 tiny arc, then became a martial arts story.

The entirety of the 42 original volumes are really coherent and people only pretend "Z" is different because Toei split the thing for their anime. Most stuff I see people listing to back this argument is just filler stuff also made by Toei, because they really focused more on expanding worldbuilding till the Fake Namek arc, and the filler from there onwards is just mindless padding.

Super narratively is coherent with what Dragon Ball was, but the ideas and execution both suck to the point it doesn't feel like Dragon Ball.

Daima definitely isn't as bad as Super, but it doesn't feel like Dragon Ball either. At least, not canon stuff. Feels like GT lol.

Daima is more like a Dragon Quest story, dunno, it would be better as such or a new IP indeed.

@Ersatz-Gott



We're agreeing here, not sure whats the disagreement tbh. Saiyajin and freeza arcs were the good parts, and like I said, the first half of the Z.

Cell and Boo is not coherent what so ever, although I enjoyed both. Saiyans and Freeza arcs made huge success and that definitely fed into the decision of the direction for Cell and Boo.

Super narratively has no coherention with anything that can ever exist in the world. Just because it re-utilized elements that were common in other parts of Dragon Ball(i.e. re-utilized characters, and had tournament) does not make it coherent.


It's ok, it's your opinion, I agree with Daima being more like a Dragon Quest story, and I do think Dragon Ball drinks a lot from Dragon Quest itself. Doesn't need even need to mention why. Ofc Goky is not Dai from Dragon Quest, and therefore, the story plays differently, but they do not revolve around solely Goku, they have both have great characters development from all the crew, not just Goku, none of which feels repetitive, it's always a new adventure of something that made sense. Goku and Krillin friendship was awesome, Tien Shihan and Yamcha jesus, I loved those dudes. Piccolo itself was a great challenge and the turn it took was beautiful.

Dragon Ball Super is all about Goku. Dragon Ball Z was about the whole crew in the first half, Toriyama tried to push a lot of Gohan but the fandom from Dragon Ball Z are just the worst and pushed back hard, so then it eventually became a "only" goku thing and from there it was REALLY downhills.

Historic?
My feelings and my back hurt.

Well at least it’s not canon but no I think it being sort of the DB IP fits given everything after GT has been lackluster.

DZ is not like it was used to be before. Upon Toriyama’s death, DZ started to get worse. Too bad, I do not really like this version of child-like characters.

The problem is you, not the show. You think everyone from anywhere should know the same things because you know them, that's straight up illogical and absurd, even child-like ignorant.

I think your opinion is valid and this discussion is interesting. It is possible to have both points of view (that a new identity would be better vs. being Dragon Ball)

Personally I think Daima is the best thing done since Cell.

I agree with the colleagues above who said that Daima brings the focus back to the Dragon Balls and takes 100% of the focus off Goku (which GT and Super did and was horrible)

In addition, I highlight the technical aspects, animation and sound that are incredible. If they make 1000 episodes with the same approach I will see it smiling ^^

If you get salty by a very short "rambling" you are not inviting to no discussion, you are just fishing for validation on hating.

No one specifically said it was canon so congratulations you played yourself.

@-lies- Valid! I quite liked Cell's arc, I just struggle to this day with the idea a human doctor made multiple mechanical lifeforms stronger than the universe's greatest threat. Maybe if Cell was Gero's masterpiece made with genes from all over including Freeza and we didn't have the others running about I might find it more in line with believability. But then, I love the Android character's roles in the story and personality. I genuinely think Goku should not have come back though and it should have been all about Gohan filling the shoes at the least.


Edit: maybe reducing the Android's power down to like a little under first form Freeza could make them feel more believable and still be a menace to Piccolo and Gohan and perhaps even Vegeta without an off-screen super saiyan moment. Or just making their tireless infinite stamina a plot point where they use bait and switch tactics to wear down and outlast. I dunno. I was like 9 watching the anime and it always bothered me that Gero could make things stronger than Freeza like that. Bio-Android Cell made with gene samples from stronger beings I could buy, but the others always bothered me.

No one specifically said it was canon so congratulations you played yourself.

You could’ve just typed semantics and I’d literally be looking at the same two sentences cause that’s all that was. Likely and exactly don’t coalesce so it’s not canon; hell, anyone could see that.

Yeah, that’s a great assumption.

It’s not officially canon and anyone with two eyes can see that it’s not canon.anything that retcons DB and Z isn’t canon or at least that’s what I’ve been hearing every time I talk about canonicity.

You’re free to believe that if you want I guess, I’m not gonna correct you. Best part of this app is you can’t delete comments or replies 😂

But it’s true tho; you can’t retcon the source and be canon 😂


At least those retcons are canon. (DBZ) Super is a whole nother topic that has nothing to do with DB, DBZ, or GT so I’m not touching that here. Daima isn’t canon and there’s nothing you can do about it but kick rocks and wait for an official statement from toriyama.