american cartoons and comics wants to learn from anime and manga success

@tchitchouan "western comics rely on the same characters from the 30'-40's and the 70's" I've finished watching the new episode of Kamen Rider Zeztz (broadcasted on 25/01/2026, two days ago, not during the 40's) minutes ago, the main plot twist is, de facto, a retelling of the main plot twist of the 1971 Kamen Rider and of Kamen Rider Black, the Rider being a product of the enemy organization without the Ishinomori fetish for the Cyborgs in there. The Riders are not cyborgs, but they're a product of the enemy organization like the first Kamen Rider from 1971 was. Urutoraman Geed, episode 1, the FIRST THING TO APPEAR are the first Urutoraman from the 60's and Urutoraman Belial, complete with an intro screen homaging the intros of the first three Urutoraman showa shows. The japanese don't rely on the same stuff from the 60's or 70's, they're totally not the americans. Again, I fail to see how you can be a tokusatsu fan if you have problems with the americans doing the SAME EXACT STUFF the japanese do, without nobody having a slight problem with it. Myself included.

@ComeInReiAsuka the fight choreography in Naruto blows ass. I remember it from back in the day when I watched some episodes of the anime on normal TV broadcasting, it was just a bunch of ninjas going on the trees, spamming shurikens and it didn't go beyond that (I can't imagine how shit the choreography in the manga must be, according to the rule that mangas are always worst than their anime counterpart in every concievable way). You really are utterly delusional beyond human comprehension. Why you even bother being interested in animes and such when you should be interested in anything other than animes (you can craft Rei Ayanami dolls for your own personal use without watching TV or reading anything) is a mistery to me.

@ProudElitist I don't have problems with Americans doing their comic book thing, i was just explaining why anime and manga are more successful the way that i understand it, that doesn't necessarily mean it's good or bad or that i disapprove of it, i'm also watching zeztz i'm really enjoying the dream battles, i just finished the 8th episode where Baku fights that pinkish green soup monster and heals that old chef dude with his special skill, i'm really enjoying the dreams and detective theme of this series, it's very similar to dream hunter rem.

@tchitchouan the americans relying on the same characters from the 40's or being restricted to superhero stuff (one of my favourites from DC, Enemy Ace by Robert Kanigher for example, is not a superhero) are not the reason why mangas are successful compared to the american comics, it's the mismanagment of the american superheroes due to people like Jim Lee (who should have NEVER BEEN ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN PENCILING) and his predecessor Dan Didio the reason, A.K.A. treating like shite universal Icons that should be treated instead with respect because they overepeat the same decostructionist garbage Alan Moore and Frank Miller wrote in the 80's. See the failure of the New52 vomit, which was simply the same old Alan Moore and Frank Miller thing repeated again and again and again when even Frank Miller himself never wanted the entirety of the DC universe turned into the Dark Knight Returns, othewise he wouldn't have made it an Elseworld story. The manga and american comics audience it's also the same (not in my case, but I'm me, not the majority of the fandom), and if they prefer mangas it's simply because of said bad mismanagment.

@ProudElitist Dude, stop that. You have Dragonball in your FAVORITES. You can't tell good anime if it hit you in the face.

@ComeInReiAsuka says the person who has absolute trash like Gurren Lagann and Diebuster in his favourites. It is because of the lady handcuffed? you imagined to torture her like you imagine to torture Rei? your tastes are awful, that's a fact. you're the last person who should be around animes and otaku stuff in general.

@ProudElitist Oh yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

@tchitchouan it makes sense simply because I'm a reader of american superhero comics and what turned me away wasn't the mangas, it was this thing. The americans treating their Icons like Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman like shite. Something I have still not seen in any of the japanese tokusatsu to this day, even the depressed or less friendly stuff of the likes of Toshiki Inoue didn't get to the point of spitting in the face of the Sentais or the Kamen Riders. Even the so-much maligned (for reasons oblivious to me) Avataro Sentai Donbrothers show didn't do that with the Red Ranger, the Red Ranger from that show is the respected leader of the sentais as he should be treated. Unlike what the likes of Tom Taylor with his shit Zombie stuff or Tom King with his awful Mr. Miracle run did.

@ProudElitist You mean some of the last titles gainax made vs a battle shonen which did the same arc 3 times in a row, 4 if you count next dimension.

Don't project lmao.

Western comics is just middle aged protag superhero slop. They keep rewriting the same stories with the same characters for like 100 years. How many times has Superman or Batman or Spiderman been rebooted? How many different people has it been written by? How many different depictions of Batman's parents being killed do you need?
Manga is affordable, has more content, a shit ton of genres for anybody, constantly new stories, etc. They are also the works of the authors, where typically the story ends once the author decides to end it, then he can go and write something else.

@ProudElitist Yeah i agree, it does seem like the big publications of Marvel and DC are constantly disrespecting and deconstructing their characters for some reason which is not the case for manga and anime characters.

@ComeInReiAsuka and because they were the last are good? you accuse fans of Saint Seiya of being nostalgic and you judge something good only because it's recent? they're two trash series, one of them responsible for making me drop entirerly Kamen Rider Fourze. I have legitimately no idea why it's so overrated, but it's trash the same.

@Saku_k it's the same thing the japanese do, and it's successful. They've been rebooting their superheroes since the 60's-70's if not before (the first Gekko Kamen movies, which I've watched, were simply a retelling of the series from which they spawned) almost every year and nobody has any problem with that. How many depictions of Urutoraman putting himself into the shuwash pose I need? one. Tsuburaya doesn't seem to care one bit, they repeat it the same. And for new stories, I don't see a shit ton of genres. Big battle shounens, shoujos for the ladies, big battle shounens, shoujos for the ladies, Isekais produced at infinitum, etc. etc. etc. I fail to see this great genre diversion in the japanese medias.

@ProudElitist You cannot explain to me why you think Saint Seiya is good or has any merit. It's a 2nd rate battle shonen.

I can explain to you why Gurren Lagann is a piece of art.

Most fans don't even get that the ending made sense thematically lmao.

@ComeInReiAsuka Gurren Lagann is complete trash. It fails as a mecha show, it fails as a comedy show, it fails at everything. Besides, considering a barebone Xabungle remake (because it's just a remake of that mecha show, nothing else) tells me more about your knowledge about animes than anything else I need. I might not have put 200 or 2000 shows in my watched list, but I indeed watched Xabungle and I consider it one of the best mechas ever made, and I don't need a crappy remake to rewatch it. I can go back, rewatch it and laugh all the way through it. Saint Seiya a second rate shounen...funny how other people don't think the same you do. Masterpieces like Uchuu Sentai Kyuranger are enough to disqualify any opinion on Saint Seiya you might have. And if you judged that masterpiece on the basis of the shitty manga, I have a news for you: even fans of Saint Seiya consider the manga of hack Masami Kurumada garbage, particularly concerning the design. You judging the animated Masterpiece on the merits of the crappy manga makes zero sense, like it would make zero sense basing the opinion on the shitty Naoko Takeuchi manga for judging Sailor Moon.

@ProudElitist
So?
Why are you comparing tokusatsu? We are talking about manga.
The point is there is a shit ton of stuff out there in all kinds of genres, in an affordable, easy to access format with manga. That doesn't exist with comic books. Just because there is some stuff in Japan that does tell the same stories/reboots doesn't mean that is most of the market, or even close to it.

Sailor Moon, Card Captor Sakura, Chobits, all the mech series, harem shit, all the comedy stuff, etc all exist as options for manga. Is there lots of isekai stuff these days? Yeah, but there is also lots of stuff that isn't isekai. Ask any American about comics and 99% of them probably won't know anything other than marvel/DC.

@ProudElitist

Animated masterpiece and it added fillers just to sell toys.

https://youtu.be/qcR7W9_wp2I?si=MM9d5ncpjj_SQ8JS

It's trash. Shonen anime releasing in seasons is the best move ever.

So here you are admitting you haven't even watched 200 shows lmao. But you watched an old show...that means your opinion matters more!

Just because something is old doesn't make it better.

Nobody is lining up to watch black and white Gigantor for a reason lmao. Old =/= good. It's a fallacy

@ProudElitist
So?
Why are you comparing tokusatsu? We are talking about manga.
The point is there is a shit ton of stuff out there in all kinds of genres, in an affordable, easy to access format with manga. That doesn't exist with comic books. Just because there is some stuff in Japan that does tell the same stories/reboots doesn't mean that is most of the market, or even close to it.

Sailor Moon, Card Captor Sakura, Chobits, all the mech series, harem shit, all the comedy stuff, etc all exist as options for manga. Is there lots of isekai stuff these days? Yeah, but there is also lots of stuff that isn't isekai. Ask any American about comics and 99% of them probably won't know anything other than marvel/DC.

Western comics is just middle aged protag superhero slop. They keep rewriting the same stories with the same characters for like 100 years. How many times has Superman or Batman or Spiderman been rebooted? How many different people has it been written by? How many different depictions of Batman's parents being killed do you need?
Manga is affordable, has more content, a shit ton of genres for anybody, constantly new stories, etc. They are also the works of the authors, where typically the story ends once the author decides to end it, then he can go and write something else.

@ProudElitist
So?
Why are you comparing tokusatsu? We are talking about manga.
The point is there is a shit ton of stuff out there in all kinds of genres, in an affordable, easy to access format with manga. That doesn't exist with comic books. Just because there is some stuff in Japan that does tell the same stories/reboots doesn't mean that is most of the market, or even close to it.

Sailor Moon, Card Captor Sakura, Chobits, all the mech series, harem shit, all the comedy stuff, etc all exist as options for manga. Is there lots of isekai stuff these days? Yeah, but there is also lots of stuff that isn't isekai. Ask any American about comics and 99% of them probably won't know anything other than marvel/DC.

There are many other genres in US cartoons and comics, not just superhero only. For example many pixar movies such as CoCo has very unique storytelling or also the walking dead comic series it the perfect example of not being superhero comic but about people trying to survice the zombie apocalyopse. There are many more examples as well such as puss n boots recent movie featuring very unique cell shaded simulated art style (shading) in 3D animation, so on and so forth.

There are many other genres in US cartoons and comics, not just superhero only. For example many pixar movies such as CoCo has very unique storytelling or also the walking dead comic series it the perfect example of not being superhero comic but about people trying to survice the zombie apocalyopse. There are many more examples as well such as puss n boots recent movie featuring very unique cell shaded simulated art style (shading) in 3D animation, so on and so forth.

The thread title is misleading since the discussion is near exclusively about comics.

The thread title is misleading since the discussion is near exclusively about comics.

Comics/animation. Often it's the sides of the same coin. So it's fine.

But that's interesting question. Are there any worth while things from the west? I haven't followed this market in years. I can only think of… Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2003, Spawn The Animated Series 1997, and Hazbin Hotel. Off there is also Primal and Samurai Jack. And... that's it. But only Hazbin Hotel is new so... not much. With anime we get massive number of shows every year.

Comics/animation. Often it's the sides of the same coin. So it's fine.

But that's interesting question. Are there any worth while things from the west? I haven't followed this market in years. I can only think of… Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2003, Spawn The Animated Series 1997, and Hazbin Hotel. Off there is also Primal and Samurai Jack. And... that's it. But only Hazbin Hotel is new so... not much. With anime we get massive number of shows every year.

@Saygram have you watched Arcane? The video game adaptation.

The thread title is misleading since the discussion is near exclusively about comics.

@Saygram
Then you're not paying attention. American animation has been wildly successful since its inception a hundred years ago, and jacobPOL even provided examples of a couple successes made within the past decade.

And that's why nobody is talking about animation. Learning from anime is good and all, but the notion that westerners can't animate has no basis in reality.

@Lucifrost "The stories told in Japanese manga and anime are incredibly powerful." that is the claim of the dc comics boss

plus most manga have anime adaptations anyway

@deg
Yes, but the DC Comics boss isn't trying to make better animation. DC Comics specializes in comics.