Senjougahara and Koyomi&#039;s relationship.

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He didn't betray her. He actually didn't do a lot of stuff that he could have, because of Hitagi. Koyomi could have done everything with Suruga, but he didn't.
And no, he never nearly fucked his sister, in that case he tested his theory.
Koyomi was pretty loyal throughout the whole series.

Aug 3, 2023 4:02 AM

#4

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Well, Hitagi is a very understanding girlfriend, she forgives him most of the time. It's not like she doesn't care, Hitagi knows what she's doing. Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. They both love each other, but Araragi is no saint, he has many flaws in his personality and Hitagi ignores them most of the time. Their relationship is still going, even better and there is steady progress behind the scenes.

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Aug 3, 2023 4:17 AM

#5

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ktg said:
He didn't betray her. He actually didn't do a lot of stuff that he could have, because of Hitagi. Koyomi could have done everything with Suruga, but he didn't.
And no, he never nearly fucked his sister, in that case he tested his theory.
Koyomi was pretty loyal throughout the whole series.

I suppose so haha. But like, i most likely wouldn't forgive my boyfriend for feeling up and kissing a girl at a club because he didn't sleep with her. It's probably just me taking it too seriously though.

Aug 3, 2023 4:23 AM

#6

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imoutofanatic said:

ktg said:
He didn't betray her. He actually didn't do a lot of stuff that he could have, because of Hitagi. Koyomi could have done everything with Suruga, but he didn't.
And no, he never nearly fucked his sister, in that case he tested his theory.
Koyomi was pretty loyal throughout the whole series.

I suppose so haha. But like, i most likely wouldn't forgive my boyfriend for feeling up and kissing a girl at a club because he didn't sleep with her. It's probably just me taking it too seriously though.

If we consider it as betrayal, wasn't Koyomi betrayed by Hitagi when she bathed with Tsubasa?

Aug 3, 2023 4:30 AM

#7

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itsrj20 said:
Well, Hitagi is a very understanding girlfriend, she forgives him most of the time. It's not like she doesn't care, Hitagi knows what she's doing. Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. They both love each other, but Araragi is no saint, he has many flaws in his personality and Hitagi ignores them most of the time. Their relationship is still going, even better and there is steady progress behind the scenes.

'Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. ' My braincells are dying lately so I don't rlly understand this bit, what do you mean?
Does Hitagi just not rlly mind? Or is she just tolerant?

Aug 3, 2023 4:43 AM

#8

Loayza

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Aug 3, 2023 4:44 AM

#9

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ktg said:

imoutofanatic said:

I suppose so haha. But like, i most likely wouldn't forgive my boyfriend for feeling up and kissing a girl at a club because he didn't sleep with her. It's probably just me taking it too seriously though.

If we consider it as betrayal, wasn't Koyomi betrayed by Hitagi when she bathed with Tsubasa?

i suppose not? i guess i sort of just assumed that both Hitagi and Koyomi are straight? like sort of how you act overly zesty with your mates. i've felt up my friends multiple times and i wasn't at all attracted to them. sort of just assumed it was the same thing, but if Hitagi is sexually attracted to Tsubasa then 100%, honestly that would probably make me feel worse about their relationship.

Aug 3, 2023 4:46 AM

#10

Yosakusan

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imoutofanatic said:

itsrj20 said:
Well, Hitagi is a very understanding girlfriend, she forgives him most of the time. It's not like she doesn't care, Hitagi knows what she's doing. Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. They both love each other, but Araragi is no saint, he has many flaws in his personality and Hitagi ignores them most of the time. Their relationship is still going, even better and there is steady progress behind the scenes.

'Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. ' My braincells are dying lately so I don't rlly understand this bit, what do you mean?
Does Hitagi just not rlly mind? Or is she just tolerant?

There is a scene in bake, I think, where Hitagi says she's very tolerant towards adultery, unless Araragi falls in love with the other person, in which case she will kill him.

Aug 3, 2023 4:50 AM

#11

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Yosakusan said:

imoutofanatic said:

'Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. ' My braincells are dying lately so I don't rlly understand this bit, what do you mean?
Does Hitagi just not rlly mind? Or is she just tolerant?

There is a scene in bake, I think, where Hitagi says she's very tolerant towards adultery, unless Araragi falls in love with the other person, in which case she will kill him.

But I suppose they sort of just had an open relationship at that point in time?

Aug 3, 2023 4:58 AM

#12

Yosakusan

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imoutofanatic said:

Yosakusan said:

There is a scene in bake, I think, where Hitagi says she's very tolerant towards adultery, unless Araragi falls in love with the other person, in which case she will kill him.

But I suppose they sort of just had an open relationship at that point in time?

Kinda. Hitagi didn't seem interested in anyone else tho, apart from Hanekawa maybe. I think it just has to do with her accepting Araragi as someone that might not be happy in a completely monogamic relationship, so she gives him some leeway. I believe later on in the novels their relationship does start to strain and I heard they break up a cpuple of times? So their relationship is not exactly depicted as a perfect one at all and they might be better off single.

Aug 3, 2023 5:01 AM

#13

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SATAN19 said:
okay so the very first reason that Hitagi is okay with stuff happening behind her back is because she falls in love with Araragi as a whole. Including his flaws and all the extra care/affection he shows the other girls. This is something i noticed in the final scene of the series where they show an unknown girl running through the hallways of the school, passes hitagi and hanekawa, and then we see araragi chasing her with the intent of saving that girl, the two of them guide araragi to where the unknown girl ran off to.
What i understood from this scene is that despite his involvement with other girls, in the past and future, they both will still love araragi no matter what.

Now as to why hitagi is okay with, first of all she has to be okay with the fact that araragi has a person he considers above hitagi for him. that is kiss-shot. araragi considers kiss-shot his life saver and says many times that if she dies, he will die with her.

this is fact known by hitagi too, irrespective of which, she agrees to go out with and in process keep falling deeper in love. she has to accept the fact that the person she loves does not consider her as the most important person in their life (which is true for real life as well but mostly it's parents who take the first priority not an immortal vampire )

so to conclude the whole thing comes down to what hitagi chooses to believe in and her own confidence which supports her belief that araragi will never betray/cheat with her. this is hitagi's side to araragi, as she barely knows what happens behind the scenes when araragi gets involved with any girl xD.

now coming to araragi, we know he is the type of guy to act before thinking. so we can easily categorize him as the person to act on feeling, and what do teenage guys think about? answer is sad but obvious.
but despite acting so many times, araragi never truly betrays hitagi's or hanekawa's or shinobu's trust.

Somehow I managed to completely miss this comment? Honestly, I have no problem with who Koyomi's prioritizes. I think Shinobu and Koyomi's relationship makes complete sense since they're sort of an extension of each other now (at least that's how I've viewed it). I suppose it's a matter of what Hitagi views as betrayal, if she's fine with Koyomi feeling up other women and all that, then it's fine. I just feel that Koyomi should probably be a little more sensitive towards her feelings. Again, I'd have no problem with Araragi simply looking at other women and thinking they're hot, since y'know he's a teenage boy and his hormones are going wild. It's the acting on it part that put's me off.

Aug 3, 2023 5:01 AM

#14

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imoutofanatic said:

ktg said:

If we consider it as betrayal, wasn't Koyomi betrayed by Hitagi when she bathed with Tsubasa?

i suppose not? i guess i sort of just assumed that both Hitagi and Koyomi are straight? like sort of how you act overly zesty with your mates. i've felt up my friends multiple times and i wasn't at all attracted to them. sort of just assumed it was the same thing, but if Hitagi is sexually attracted to Tsubasa then 100%, honestly that would probably make me feel worse about their relationship.

But originally you were talking about touching and not about feelings. I mean you can shake someone's hand without any attraction. So if we are talking about Koyomi touching for example Mayoi, then it is the same as Hitagi touching Tsubasa.
If we are talking about sexual attraction then it's a completely different case. And in that case, I would say Koyomi didn't betray Hitagi. What Koyomi did towards Mayoi is more like bullying (?), while he did find Tsubasa and Suruga hot, but never acted on those feelings. (And just because you are in a relationship, you would still find some people hot.)

Aug 3, 2023 5:03 AM

#15

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Yosakusan said:

imoutofanatic said:

But I suppose they sort of just had an open relationship at that point in time?

Kinda. Hitagi didn't seem interested in anyone else tho, apart from Hanekawa maybe. I think it just has to do with her accepting Araragi as someone that might not be happy in a completely monogamic relationship, so she gives him some leeway. I believe later on in the novels their relationship does start to strain and I heard they break up a cpuple of times? So their relationship is not exactly depicted as a perfect one at all and they might be better off single.

Yeah, that's the way it sorta makes me feel which makes me a little sad (the starry sky scene and their date are some of my favourite romantic scenes in all of Anime.)

Aug 3, 2023 5:20 AM

#16

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ktg said:

imoutofanatic said:

i suppose not? i guess i sort of just assumed that both Hitagi and Koyomi are straight? like sort of how you act overly zesty with your mates. i've felt up my friends multiple times and i wasn't at all attracted to them. sort of just assumed it was the same thing, but if Hitagi is sexually attracted to Tsubasa then 100%, honestly that would probably make me feel worse about their relationship.

But originally you were talking about touching and not about feelings. I mean you can shake someone's hand without any attraction. So if we are talking about Koyomi touching for example Mayoi, then it is the same as Hitagi touching Tsubasa.
If we are talking about sexual attraction then it's a completely different case. And in that case, I would say Koyomi didn't betray Hitagi. What Koyomi did towards Mayoi is more like bullying (?), while he did find Tsubasa and Suruga hot, but never acted on those feelings. (And just because you are in a relationship, you would still find some people hot.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I don't mind when he looks at a girl and thinks they're hot. The acting on it part? Cheating. Is there proof that he doesn't really view Mayoi in that way, nor with Shinobu or Ononoki? Cause if there is, I'd honestly feel way better about it.

Aug 3, 2023 5:21 AM

#17

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imoutofanatic said:

itsrj20 said:
Well, Hitagi is a very understanding girlfriend, she forgives him most of the time. It's not like she doesn't care, Hitagi knows what she's doing. Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. They both love each other, but Araragi is no saint, he has many flaws in his personality and Hitagi ignores them most of the time. Their relationship is still going, even better and there is steady progress behind the scenes.

'Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. ' My braincells are dying lately so I don't rlly understand this bit, what do you mean?

Simple meaning is that she is not doing this because of any restriction, she is doing this of her own free will, no circumstances are forcing her to do so.

imoutofanatic said:
Does Hitagi just not rlly mind? Or is she just tolerant?

As I said, she does mind, and she is doing this of her own will which means she is just being tolerant, ignoring his behavior or flawed personality.

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Aug 3, 2023 5:28 AM

#18

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itsrj20 said:

imoutofanatic said:

'Besides, it's not like Hitagi chose Araragi, so she only has one choice to forgive, it's mutual, Koyomi also chooses Hitagi over Tsubasa. ' My braincells are dying lately so I don't rlly understand this bit, what do you mean?

Simple meaning is that she is not doing this because of any restriction, she is doing this of her own free will, no circumstances are forcing her to do so.

imoutofanatic said:
Does Hitagi just not rlly mind? Or is she just tolerant?

As I said, she does mind, and she is doing this of her own will which means she is just being tolerant, ignoring his behavior or flawed personality.

Isn't that sort of shitty on Koyomi's part then for totally disregarding her feeling's? in a relationship, shouldn't the two people try to avoid hurting the other person?

Aug 3, 2023 5:28 AM

#19

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imoutofanatic said:

ktg said:

But originally you were talking about touching and not about feelings. I mean you can shake someone's hand without any attraction. So if we are talking about Koyomi touching for example Mayoi, then it is the same as Hitagi touching Tsubasa.
If we are talking about sexual attraction then it's a completely different case. And in that case, I would say Koyomi didn't betray Hitagi. What Koyomi did towards Mayoi is more like bullying (?), while he did find Tsubasa and Suruga hot, but never acted on those feelings. (And just because you are in a relationship, you would still find some people hot.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I don't mind when he looks at a girl and thinks they're hot. The acting on it part? Cheating. Is there proof that he doesn't really view Mayoi in that way, nor with Shinobu or Ononoki? Cause if there is, I'd honestly feel way better about it.

I think his behavior is the proof.
Koyomi avoids psychical contacts with girls who could have sex with, namely Suruga, Tsubasa and Nadeshiko. And I would say the most important one is Nadeshiko in that list. Koyomi acts "that" way towards loli characters, like Mayoi or Ononoki, but not towards Nadeshiko. The reason behind it is probably because he recognized that Nadeshiko does love him, so she would misinterpret Koyomi's bullying.

Aug 3, 2023 5:30 AM

#20

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ktg said:

imoutofanatic said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I don't mind when he looks at a girl and thinks they're hot. The acting on it part? Cheating. Is there proof that he doesn't really view Mayoi in that way, nor with Shinobu or Ononoki? Cause if there is, I'd honestly feel way better about it.

I think his behavior is the proof.
Koyomi avoids psychical contacts with girls who could have sex with, namely Suruga, Tsubasa and Nadeshiko. And I would say the most important one is Nadeshiko in that list. Koyomi acts "that" way towards loli characters, like Mayoi or Ononoki, but not towards Nadeshiko. The reason behind it is probably because he recognized that Nadeshiko does love him, so she would misinterpret Koyomi's bullying.

But didn't he suggest that they both sleep in the same bed? He was only stopped because Shinobu punched him.

Aug 3, 2023 5:32 AM

#21

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ktg said:

imoutofanatic said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I don't mind when he looks at a girl and thinks they're hot. The acting on it part? Cheating. Is there proof that he doesn't really view Mayoi in that way, nor with Shinobu or Ononoki? Cause if there is, I'd honestly feel way better about it.

I think his behavior is the proof.
Koyomi avoids psychical contacts with girls who could have sex with, namely Suruga, Tsubasa and Nadeshiko. And I would say the most important one is Nadeshiko in that list. Koyomi acts "that" way towards loli characters, like Mayoi or Ononoki, but not towards Nadeshiko. The reason behind it is probably because he recognized that Nadeshiko does love him, so she would misinterpret Koyomi's bullying.

Also sorry, I probably sound very stubborn ;;. I'm really just trying to clear their names as much as I possibly can in my head. Cause I tend to get stuck up on this shit.

Aug 3, 2023 5:46 AM

#22

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imoutofanatic said:

ktg said:

I think his behavior is the proof.
Koyomi avoids psychical contacts with girls who could have sex with, namely Suruga, Tsubasa and Nadeshiko. And I would say the most important one is Nadeshiko in that list. Koyomi acts "that" way towards loli characters, like Mayoi or Ononoki, but not towards Nadeshiko. The reason behind it is probably because he recognized that Nadeshiko does love him, so she would misinterpret Koyomi's bullying.

But didn't he suggest that they both sleep in the same bed? He was only stopped because Shinobu punched him.

Errr... well, I don't remember this. I should rewatch it to confirm this. In Bakemonogatari that didn't happen, but I don't know if it happened later. But in general, Koyomi wasn't that touchy with Nadeshiko.

imoutofanatic said:
Also sorry, I probably sound very stubborn ;;. I'm really just trying to clear their names as much as I possibly can in my head. Cause I tend to get stuck up on this shit.

It' ok, but I watched it quite a while ago, so I won't remember every detail.

Aug 3, 2023 6:04 AM

#23

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imoutofanatic said:

itsrj20 said:

Simple meaning is that she is not doing this because of any restriction, she is doing this of her own free will, no circumstances are forcing her to do so.

As I said, she does mind, and she is doing this of her own will which means she is just being tolerant, ignoring his behavior or flawed personality.

Isn't that sort of shitty on Koyomi's part then for totally disregarding her feeling's?

I mean if this is your third rewatch or you've read the novel, you already know Araragi's monologue or how he thinks, right? So it's not like you're suddenly discovering a different side of Araragi, he's always been like this. Being pervy to other oddities, but also choosing Hitagi over anyone else. If I have to say whose fault is it then both are wrong. Why isn't Hitagi forcing him not to do this? The only reason for this is that she is tolerant. She knows Araragi's personality better than anyone else.

imoutofanatic said:
in a relationship, shouldn't the two people try to avoid hurting the other person?

In the real world or even in fiction, yes definitely. In the real world, whatever he does with other girls should be far from being okay with a partner. But with an eccentric person like Senjougahara, as long as she doesn't mind, who would raise the question? In this case, the person who needs to question it is the one and only, your partner. (Hitagi in this scenario)

Seeing all of these things in the real world raises many other ethical concerns. But, she herself says that she doesn't mind that he isn't afraid to do it with other girls, as long as it is clear that she is his number one. Read any conversation between the two of them and you can tell how much Araragi loves and respects Senjougahara as a lover more than anyone else. So, when both agree on it, it is hardly a matter of concern to anyone else.

itsrj20Aug 3, 2023 6:10 AM

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Aug 3, 2023 6:19 AM

#24

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itsrj20 said:

imoutofanatic said:

Isn't that sort of shitty on Koyomi's part then for totally disregarding her feeling's?

I mean if this is your third rewatch or you've read the novel, you already know Araragi's monologue or how he thinks, right? So it's not like you're suddenly discovering a different side of Araragi, he's always been like this. Being pervy to other oddities, but also choosing Hitagi over anyone else. If I have to say whose fault is it then both are wrong. Why isn't Hitagi forcing him not to do this? The only reason for this is that she is tolerant. She knows Araragi's personality better than anyone else.

imoutofanatic said:
in a relationship, shouldn't the two people try to avoid hurting the other person?

In the real world or even in fiction, yes definitely. In the real world, whatever he does with other girls should be far from being okay with a partner. But with an eccentric person like Senjougahara, as long as she doesn't mind, who would raise the question? In this case, the person who needs to question it is the one and only, your partner. (Hitagi in this scenario)

Seeing all of these things in the real world raises many other ethical concerns. But, she herself says that she doesn't mind that he isn't afraid to do it with other girls, as long as it is clear that she is his number one. Read any conversation between the two of them and you can tell how much Araragi loves and respects Senjougahara as a lover more than anyone else. So, when both agree on it, it is hardly a matter of concern to anyone else.

I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure, it still feels wrong. I feel like it's just common sense that you shouldnt act on sexual urges towards others than your partner. For example, if a partner begrudgingly told me that they'll tolerate my cheating as long as I put them first, I still wouldn't do these things in respect for my partners feelings. If I get the idea that they don't like such behaviour, it wouldn't be a big deal for me at all to refrain from touching others. And I haven't actually read the novel, I've just been spoilt multiple times unfortunately :/. Can I ask, why was Hitagi upset with the Sodachi situation yet not with the other ones?
Also, I suppose it is arguably alright for Koyomi to mess around with other woman if she said so but it does bring into question how healthy their relationship truly is.

Aug 3, 2023 7:38 AM

#25