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May 3, 2020 8:23 AM

Offline
Jun 2016
3391
These last two episodes have had the curse that Fishman island had, where, for a period of time, we focus on the country and the invader without having any personal and emotional investment. Just like the princes fought the Hordy pirates, does anyone truly care about Master Cat Viper and Dogstorm yet, and is seeing them fight the best way to get to know them? It may be effective, as does it get across the difference between the two rulers and the strength of the people, but that stuff can be grasped in a mere moment. Seeing two episodes of them fighting with knowledge of how it ends and not much to be interested in creates a sense of boredom. Like, yeah, I get it, so let’s get past this already. A part of me thinks we should have gotten glimpses of the destruction rather than seeing it fully fledged.

However, it does give an outlet to discuss something I’ve been thinking about recently. In One Piece, I tend to find the large scale battles, even in the manga, to carry an issue to a degree. When we turn from the Straw Hats to Paulie, Lulu, Tilestone, or the Franky family in Enies Lobby, I can’t help but zone out. It’s not the fact that I don’t care about the characters, but rather I find what they are doing as predictable and somewhat cheap. This is because it is evident how everything will turn out and therefore, by showing us the supporting cast struggling to 'just barely win' their battle in the nick of time for the Straw Hats to continue feels artificial. And while the directions the battle takes are artificial, I already don’t care about the characters beyond a surface level in many cases so it becomes droning. That said, I understand that it may be a necessary component to making the arcs feel big in scale. If it were only a strategic conflict between 18 people or so then it could feel like a group fight, not a wide scale battle full of thousands. Part of the appeal is in that, say for Enies Lobby or here in Zou, that all the key party members also have hundreds of allies that fight for them. It makes these broader strokes feel like an extension of the battle’s crucial players. It just happens to always be one of my least favorite aspects of such great moments.

I feel Zou is different to a degree because we know the outcome is bad and the good guys can’t win this on their own, and stuff like the rain-ruption or the night/day armies proving why the onus is on the ignorant invaders definitely leaves a level of interest in the strategy, it doesn’t feel as artificial as some of my most disliked scenes, but it still lacks our emotional investment like Fishman island did for me. The characters at play are not linked to anything I am more than vaguely interested in so I end up losing interest. To remark on my favorite example of large-scale conflict in One Piece is Marineford, and the reason is obvious from what I’ve typed here. There are strong characters we root for on both sides, not a good/bad binary, and therefore we are invested in both. Further, this is in the formula breaking stretch of One Piece where Luffy is constantly losing and it’s unclear what the outcome will be. Each step feels painstaking and, although meta narrative expectations can lead to some prediction, it still feels earned and real to me. Ultimately, the fact that the good guys lose the conflict after all the pushing and fighting is the final cherry on top for making constantly engaging and interesting, strategic large-scale combat. It lacks the emotional dissonance and contrived outcomes that can come with this territory. A worthwhile conclusion to the first half of the series, no doubt.

To speak on the episode in more detail, I think this was an excellent example in how a few lines from a character can make them infinitely more likable to me as an audience. I’m speaking firstly of Jack’s comment about how his underling was annoying which was a level of irritation, not acted on, which was just so human I couldn’t help but give a good laugh, and secondly, his stubborn refusal to compromise. This second one is simply because it made me consider his position as a person, rather than as a 1dimensional villain like all of his underlings seem. He was clear with his words, if Raizo is given to them, they would call off the attack. But if he wasn’t, they would all die. This can serve numerous purposes. One, to make sure they cannot hide the ninja from them. It’s a declaration that if you guys have him, then you have to give him to me and there is no way around this, and if you don’t, well that’s a sacrifice we’re willing to make. This is as ruthless as he’s been spoken about but also coldly pragmatic, and it goes to strengthen the fear that Kaido’s name instills. His word is law and uncompromising! Finally, Jack is a great man for this job because he has a slight sadistic streak in him, enjoying the destruction he causes. I’m glad that this can all be gathered rather than: Jack is overly evil and likes destroying things.
Jun 19, 2020 2:19 PM
Offline
Jun 2020
39
Well even if you think you are the strongest one because you have 1 billion berry bounty you shall never underestimate a king of an kingdom.
Dec 19, 2020 5:43 PM

Offline
Apr 2020
1187
Wonder how Luffy is going to deal with a billion berry bounty opponent.
Its crazy how we thought 30 million was a lot.
Now we have people with 1b bounty just popping up.
THESE ARENT EVEN FREAKING YONKOS !!
Jun 20, 2021 8:34 AM

Offline
May 2016
12381
Dogstorm's already pretty strong but it looks like he's more of the brain among the two of them while Cat Viper acts as the brawn since it looks like he's a lot better in combat.

Jack's human form looks really cool. As powerful and rare that Ancient Zoan Type is, having him look like a mammoth the whole time wouldn't be very intimidating.








Aug 16, 2021 3:50 AM

Offline
Jun 2019
6294
Master Cat Viper and Jack looks badass. Can't wait to see the fight.
Sep 2, 2021 1:11 AM

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Aug 2021
1508
Jack had 1 billion berries bounty smh

Aug 19, 2022 5:49 PM

Offline
Dec 2018
3385
maybe 10 seconds of content. dropping the score back down to 1.
Dec 22, 2022 2:58 AM
Offline
Nov 2007
13
gfsdfgsdgsdfgs said:
These last two episodes have had the curse that Fishman island had, where, for a period of time, we focus on the country and the invader without having any personal and emotional investment.  Just like the princes fought the Hordy pirates, does anyone truly care about Master Cat Viper and Dogstorm yet, and is seeing them fight the best way to get to know them?  It may be effective, as does it get across the difference between the two rulers and the strength of the people, but that stuff can be grasped in a mere moment.  Seeing two episodes of them fighting with knowledge of how it ends and not much to be interested in creates a sense of boredom.  Like, yeah, I get it, so let’s get past this already.  A part of me thinks we should have gotten glimpses of the destruction rather than seeing it fully fledged.

However, it does give an outlet to discuss something I’ve been thinking about recently.  In One Piece, I tend to find the large scale battles, even in the manga, to carry an issue to a degree.  When we turn from the Straw Hats to Paulie, Lulu, Tilestone, or the Franky family in Enies Lobby, I can’t help but zone out.  It’s not the fact that I don’t care about the characters, but rather I find what they are doing as predictable and somewhat cheap.  This is because it is evident how everything will turn out and therefore, by showing us the supporting cast struggling to 'just barely win' their battle in the nick of time for the Straw Hats to continue feels artificial.  And while the directions the battle takes are artificial, I already don’t care about the characters beyond a surface level in many cases so it becomes droning. That said, I understand that it may be a necessary component to making the arcs feel big in scale.  If it were only a strategic conflict between 18 people or so then it could feel like a group fight, not a wide scale battle full of thousands.  Part of the appeal is in that, say for Enies Lobby or here in Zou, that all the key party members also have hundreds of allies that fight for them.  It makes these broader strokes feel like an extension of the battle’s crucial players.  It just happens to always be one of my least favorite aspects of such great moments. 

I feel Zou is different to a degree because we know the outcome is bad and the good guys can’t win this on their own, and stuff like the rain-ruption or the night/day armies proving why the onus is on the ignorant invaders definitely leaves a level of interest in the strategy, it doesn’t feel as artificial as some of my most disliked scenes, but it still lacks our emotional investment like Fishman island did for me.  The characters at play are not linked to anything I am more than vaguely interested in so I end up losing interest.  To remark on my favorite example of large-scale conflict in One Piece is Marineford, and the reason is obvious from what I’ve typed here.  There are strong characters we root for on both sides, not a good/bad binary, and therefore we are invested in both.  Further, this is in the formula breaking stretch of One Piece where Luffy is constantly losing and it’s unclear what the outcome will be.  Each step feels painstaking and, although meta narrative expectations can lead to some prediction, it still feels earned and real to me.  Ultimately, the fact that the good guys lose the conflict after all the pushing and fighting is the final cherry on top for making constantly engaging and interesting, strategic large-scale combat.  It lacks the emotional dissonance and contrived outcomes that can come with this territory.  A worthwhile conclusion to the first half of the series, no doubt.

To speak on the episode in more detail, I think this was an excellent example in how a few lines from a character can make them infinitely more likable to me as an audience.  I’m speaking firstly of Jack’s comment about how his underling was annoying which was a level of irritation, not acted on, which was just so human I couldn’t help but give a good laugh, and secondly, his stubborn refusal to compromise.  This second one is simply because it made me consider his position as a person, rather than as a 1dimensional villain like all of his underlings seem.  He was clear with his words, if Raizo is given to them, they would call off the attack.  But if he wasn’t, they would all die.  This can serve numerous purposes.  One, to make sure they cannot hide the ninja from them.  It’s a declaration that if you guys have him, then you have to give him to me and there is no way around this, and if you don’t, well that’s a sacrifice we’re willing to make.  This is as ruthless as he’s been spoken about but also coldly pragmatic, and it goes to strengthen the fear that Kaido’s name instills.  His word is law and uncompromising!  Finally, Jack is a great man for this job because he has a slight sadistic streak in him, enjoying the destruction he causes.  I’m glad that this can all be gathered rather than: Jack is overly evil and likes destroying things.
Great post! Hit the nail on the head. These fights lack emotional investment as we don't know anything yet about who's really fighting who and we kind of already know what's going to happen. It is a way to introduce these characters, but is it the best way? Also Jack being a human is definitely a plus, but the way he was first introduced (as a mammoth just ramming into things) doesn't really match with the 1 million berries bounty that's on his head. Why not wow us with how awesome this 1 million berry character instead of making us feel like "is that it?" 

Regarding this episode: I enjoyed it because it's a lot more interesting than the former episodes. Cat Viper seemed interesting and as I said, Jack having a human form is a great plus. But I still have to complain about the way that this arc starts. There's still a lot things unknown. Especially what happened with Sanji, but also why everyone is searching for Raizo, why samurais can't be mentioned here, why this is supposed to be "samurai island" but somehow it appears to be the land of the Minks. Anyway, this makes for an interesting story but the problem is that the characters don't behave in the way that they should. WE know that we will find out more about these things and that the writer is just causing suspense. But why are the One Piece crew not going totally crazy right now? They should think that Sanji has died! Their beloved friend is gone, why are they not screaming at Nami and Chopper for an explanation: "Wtf happened to Sanji!? Where is he? Did he die or can we still save him?" Why are they not asking for more details on what Nami, Chopper and Brooks have been doing the last couple of days. They're on this unknown island, full of dangerous creatures. They should be gathering information. Well, that's my gripe with the characters right now. I expect more to be known in the following episodes obviously. 
Dec 20, 2023 4:41 PM
Offline
Oct 2019
6697
This mf Jack are not going to listen whatsoever.

But god damn 1 billion berries??? say whattt...
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