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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Kozue is such a horrible character. Its hard to believe she and Miki are twins. |
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Alicia3000 said: Kozue is such a horrible character. Its hard to believe she and Miki are twins. Why do you feel that way about her, out of curiosity? She's my second favorite in the series. :) I think it's interesting that Touga and Akio basically said they're going to use everyone as a pawn even though they know everyone will lose to Utena. I am at the edge of my seat trying to figure out how it's all going to end. |
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ExquisiteDefect said: Alicia3000 said: Kozue is such a horrible character. Its hard to believe she and Miki are twins. Why do you feel that way about her, out of curiosity? She's my second favorite in the series. :) I think it's interesting that Touga and Akio basically said they're going to use everyone as a pawn even though they know everyone will lose to Utena. I am at the edge of my seat trying to figure out how it's all going to end. I watched this a while ago so I don't really remember now but it seemed like she was a horrible girl who was trying to hurt Miki. |
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| I can't help but love Miki for being so adorable. Akio straddling the car bonnet is just...phew. |
| 頭脳は子供、見た目は大人！ ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ |
| And people say Evangelion is strange? Not that that is a bad thing.. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Stop! The birds and Fish are interconnected! Stop! The egg and the bed are cheating each other! |
| Yeah, I have no flipping idea what the imagery is trying to imply. I'm assuming sex,sex,sex and more sex. |
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| the car thing is getting out of hand, the 2 girls are sitting in a car that is running on a wall, without seatbelt twice Miki lost due to he cant focus... but i wonder can anyone defeat Utena when Dios fly down? |
| I'm guessing there's going to be that car every single episode of this arc... And as for Kozue, I don't really understand what was going on with her in this episode at all, but I think previous episodes have made it pretty clear that she absolutely adores Miki. Luthimal said: Completely agree with everything you've written. It's kinda distracting and making things unintentionally hilarious.The symbolism is getting milked harder than I've ever seen. It's not even subtle environmental pieces like the school pillars anymore: fucking everything is now specifically designed to equal sex, but not be sexy. |
 Znips: When Shay is born she just crawls back in the womb to shitpost for another year |
| switched to the dub for a second and what the hell, did anyone else know Crispin freeman was in this dub? Other than that awesome tidbit the dub is pretty damn bad. |
| Heh, the car thingy is somewhat funny instead of sexy lol the symbolism is getting pretty crazy as well... I obviously noticed ages ago, but they truly don't care about being repetitive in this series, hah. |
| I'm already sick of the whole car shtick. |
Kinryn said: I'm already sick of the whole car shtick. This. I don't like that they're about to get into a formula again with the episodes. |
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| I didn't mind this episode because I really like knowing more about Miki and his relationship with his sister. Besides Utena/Anthy, I like them the best. |
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| How did they even decide this ... 'yeah let's have cars for the next arc, because tables aren't exciting enough ... oh and let the cars stand up vertically ... because, you know, surreal and stuff!' |
| lol, I like how over the top it is getting. Not tired of it in the slightest. |
| SO...what was up with Miki and Kozue's new stepmom being Anthy in that phone scene? /wat |
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| Was Kozue just about to kiss Anthy in the car? |
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| haha looks like that car drive will become a thing for future episodes. in the dueling arena, looks like the cars replaced the tables from the last arc. i laughed so hard during the duel because the cars are ridiculous i really miss the old animation where utena took the sword out of anthy though |
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HiNT74 said: (I've been meaning to analyse Anthy for a while, took this episode as an opportunity :-P) It's really striking how the "new wife" looks exactly like Anthy. It's just like in the Black Rose Saga, where Anthy turned into Mamiya. She's basically messing around with everyone's emotions, even impersonating people to uncover the weaknesses in the students of Ohtori. The whole thing of course being orchestrated by Akio. From the beginning, Anthy has always deliberately been the catalyst for the duels: In episode 2, Saionji wants her as someone who will do whatever he wants. Anthy pointedly acts indifferent around him to anger him. In episodes 4 and 5, Miki sees her as a way to return to his happy memories from childhood. The way it's suddenly revealed she can play the piano is random and IMO just an act she is able to put on to lure Miki into her trap. In episode 7, Anthy provokes Juri by offering her an orange rose, which reminds Juri of Shiori. It's a very strange scene which can't be coincidence. In general Juri dislikes Anthy and wants to disprove the magical power Anthy possesses. In episode 10, Anthy suggests to Utena that they go to Touga's house, and she brings Touga a kitten as a present, unlocking old memories in both Touga and Nanami which ultimately lead to Utena's duels with both of them. There's also the discussion between Touga and Anthy in episode 11. In episode 14, Anthy's unnecessarily strange behaviour around Kanae causes her to duel. In episode 15, Kozue is jealous of Miki's appreciation for Anthy. Not a duel, but in episode 16 it's Anthy's red sweater, which she made even though it's not the winter (as pointed out by Utena), that turns Nanami into a cow. In episode 17, Anthy draws Juri's attention to Shiori at the beginning of the episode, as if by coincidence, when she shouts down to the fencers that she's dropping the sword. Also, the appearance of Juri's locket in Shiori's room is very suspicious, it must have been put there by Anthy, or by her magical power. In episode 18, Anthy unexpectedly says "There are a lot of grown up things about us, aren't there Utena", which makes Tsuwabuki very frustrated and ultimately motivates him to duel. In episode 20, Anthy wearing Saionji's hairclip infuriates Wakaba and causes her to duel. Anthy doesn't cause the duel in episode 21, but at the end of the episode she's strangely knowledgeable and mocking of Keiko's motives. And of course in episode 23 it turns out she's been impersonating Mamiya all along. I think she's basically not a real person -- she has several magical powers such as the impersonating people, her powers as rose bride and her disappearing in the lift up to the arena -- she's just a tool being used by Akio to set up the duels, or rather, taking the duels as symbolism, to uncover the insecurities in the various characters' minds. All of her antics seem like strange coincidences, and in a way could happen as coincidences, but viewed as a whole they can only be seen as deliberate (on her part). I think this was another great episode exploring what characters feel on the inside, underneath their external façade, using Anthy as usual as a kind of key to revealing the characters' insecurities -- although of course what the characters feel is already there, they just don't always admit it. THIS MAKE S MY BRAIN HURT SO GOOD |
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| Okay one. 4/5 |
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| I still have no clue what Ikuhara's trying to tell me with those cars XD Once again Miki loses because he got distracted smh. |
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| This car stuff is just weird. I hope this arc doesn't last too long. |
| The car thing is weird but Akio is sexy on the bonnet so idgaf. |
| Well this was an even stranger episode, but I feel like I'm starting to grasp what they're doing with this arc better. As in the last episode a member of the student council is manipulated by Akio into rematching Utena using the big desire they've been harboring this whole time as motivation. Up to bat this time is Miki, which dramatically was quite intriguing because as Utena angrily notes during their duel since his initial fight with her Miki seemed to have become her and Anthy's friend. I also find it really cool that it became clear in this episode, how the show has been playing the long game with each student council members arc. This was less apparent last episode with Saonji who's motivation has always been very simple. He's an entitled ass who lusts after Anthy and the eternity that awaits whosoever obtains her. But here we see a lot of advancement in Miki's story throughout, a reprisal of his Sunlit Garden dream from his first appearance, the resurfacing of his idealization of Anthy and his very unhealthy relationship with his twin sister Kozue. Kozue was not my favorite part of the Black Rose Saga. Her story spurred by jealousy of Miki's affection for Anthy felt too similar to Nanami's from the first arc. And last time we saw her get the spotlight she seemed like a very selfish and unlikable character. Here we see more to her though, mainly in the opening sequence where she injures herself trying to save a baby bird. But we also see how she feels abandoned by her absentee parents, which leads to a bitterness that unsettles Miki and many of her classmates ( the sequence of gossiping girls talking about how Kozue is just weird sometimes was a healthy dose of Utenian dialogue). But the star of this episode is Miki. He goes through the works that were introduced with Saonji last time, a fast car ride with Akio and Kozue where he is encouraged to try and take Anthy from Utena. This was an interesting approach to me that rang true to Miki's character. He wants to just take Anthy as his own, but he's too meek and really to kind to resort to the same brutish tactics Saonji does. But what persuades him is cynical realism, something Miki debatably the most intellectual of the Council would respond too. The world is cruel and unforgiving so to achieve happiness you must be the same. In the end Miki doesn't have it in him though, and returns without much fuss to his previous everyday life. Hence the "coward." On a final note the recurring imagery and scenes in this arc are already even more compelling to me than the previous one. Like in the black rose saga, the indoctrination and fight scenes are remarkably similar but they're different enough here I can't see it getting boring. The car scenes are some of the best animated sequences in the whole show, and are revealing an interesting visual metaphor for greedy opportunism. Akio playing Ship's Mast at the climax of each scene is really badass too, even though he's getting creepier by the episode as Anthy pulls away from him. And the duels, bolstered by the new intro animation, are as exciting as they've ever been. The car chasing Miki and Utena along the sides of the arena was quite exciting, and I love the raining rose petals at the end of each fight. Things are building to a hell of a climax as Phase 3 of Utena gets underway. Akio's frustration as he struggles to understand Utena's romantic way of thinking is starting to make his ugly side show more and more and it's only a matter of time before Utena realizes what he's doing to Anthy. I can't wait for that comeuppance. |
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| That "Daddy Long Legs" reference though :-D |
| ;-; Miss the ending so much... I wonder if the bird's parents came back. Seems they went back to being detached from each other again. |
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| This show is becoming more and more unsettling as Utena faces her final duels. I find it interesting that in the very last episode I was speculating that it was Utena's purity that allowed her to come so far in the duels, yet only one episode later Akio (through Kozue) tries to convince Miki that he must abandon his purity to get anywhere-- in other words, that he must discard his morals to get what he wants. Unfortunately, even Miki decides that his desires are worth more than his morals. One can only lose their purity through the evil done to them by others or by one's own choices. Despite the schoolgrounds and relationships in the show being filled with perversion, sex is not evil in itself. It is the context of it, and in some ways this show might be analoging the difficulty in maintaining one's purity in an increasingly perverse society. That is, I believe, why the union of the prince and the princess is being portrayed as so difficult to obtain. It represents purity of relationship and sexual purity-- sex within the bond of marriage and love. This is the goal and the ideal, yet Utena must fight against the society around her to obtain it. Perhaps then the swords could represent the strength of her relationship with the prince, and the swords of others represent their own relationships and how they approach them. The bond of love in true purity is, after it has matured, stronger than any other. This would illuminate the conflict between Dios and Akio while still allowing them to "both benefit" from Dios's release. If Dios represents love and purity, then the full release of his power (marriage) creates a context within which sex (what Akio represents) is pure rather than perverse/lustful. Until that point pure/true love and sex/lust are in opposition to one another. Given that, this is the fruit of pure love matured: the nuclear family unit, or "the power to revolutionize the world". Where the student council and Akio mistake "revolution" to mean "changing what is acceptable", in reality it means "power" in a wholesome sense that is the foundation for driving society. The show may contradict all of the above later, but that's my current interpretation given the flow of the story thus far. |
TripleSRankJun 4, 2017 5:38 PM
| I'm not happy with the implication that Akio is mistreating/controlling Anthy. :| It seems like this arc's going to have every member of the student council have this sexy car ritual, meet "End of the World", and decide to fight Utena again. Of course, things are going to get really interested if (when?) Utena finds out Akio's true identity... |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| So Miki lost the duel, but also his sister's respect for him. Maybe he shouldn't have given in after all... Also, what's with him having his own Rose Bride? It's not like he needs a sword to duel, he has his own. "Filler" next? Or maybe it's the duel versus Nanami and the preview makes it look like a silly episode. |
| Around the gif~ "It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car" - Shiori Takatsuki |
| Was it me or Anthy was with Miki's father? saying that it was "too soon to call herself their new mom" (or something along those lines). What's up with that???????? I can't wait for Utena to save Anthy from her brother that is of course if she wants to be saved at all. |
 SEIZON SENRYAKU: Hungry 100% of the time.Vzla-IT |
| I want to live in whatever dimension the student council room is located in, it seems like a fun place. lol Kozue as a 'rose bride' Seemed eminently fitting that she should pull the sword out of Miki, but then Anthy does the same for Utena now. Revolutionary Girl might be a strong contender for greatest anime of all time, purely on the basis of such absurd imagery as Kozue riding the car in circles around Miki during the duel. Next episode is...chicken Nanami? |
| I'm not surprised by Anthy messing ONCE AGAIN with people's lives from the shadows, although I do wonder, if she has some kind of magic powers to do it, or did she seduce Miki's father for real? There are some metaphors I'm getting, but there's also A LOT of things I just don't understand about this show. Seems like I'll have to take my time reading analysis and theories after I'm done with watching it @_@ |
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| It's my third time watching Utena and i always get amused at how consistent the structure is as a whole. That's Ikuhara at his most methodical and the very best use of repetition i've ever seen in anime. The show can be quite frustrating early on, but when it gets to the later stages it's just so satisfactory. I was reading through this and other episodes threads both here and on reddit and it really irks me how almost every first timer doesn't seem to notice Anthy doing her things at all. Be it her messing with Nanami on the filler-ish episodes or just like this one, where she deliberately goes out of her way to disconcentrate Miki and make him lose, exactly like she did in his first duel (because consistency! and repetition!). No wonder people get confused by the ending "Miki is more..." + "Coward" sums up the whole thing. I'm positive that Utena is referring to Miki's gently, passive nature when she says this and so is Kozue, just by a different perspective. It's because he is like that that Utena can't understand why he'd go out of his way to try to possess Anthy himself. And it's because he's like that that, in the end, even after being showed The Power of Adults™ (in a, well, very sexual way) and gaining confidence in his "sword", he couldn't sustain his new conviction all the way to the end and goes back to square one after being defeated; thus Kozue's remark Next is Ruka, Shiori and Juri (and Juri's conclusion is so, so good). Then Nanami's, which is probably my favorite after Utena and Anthy's. Then much later Touga's, but fuck him JOELbedulla said: Next episode is filler so might as well skip that. Imagine skipping NANAMI'S fucking EGG |
llorandoAug 9, 2020 11:52 PM
| So we have Kozue once more. Not gonna lie. I don't really like her. Typical slut who sleeps around just to prove she can do it and make Miki jealous of some sorts. The fight was awesome though. Finally Miki actually lasted long compared to the first fight which was pathetically quick. Especially Miki being a top fencer of the school. |
| Interesting episode. Miki is just too good for his whore sister |
Ikkun_Mar 1, 2021 10:08 PM
| Kozue is such a pain. Honestly, I almost feel sorry for good boy Miki for having such shitty sister. She supposedly wants him to be happy yet she goes out with sex god Akio despite knowing Miki has distrust towards adults and when they have the opportunity to fight Utena, she makes him lose just to call him "coward" afterwards. Seriously, I have watched dementia anime that are easier to understand than this chick's train of thought. Also not again... so this new arc is basically Akio taking each Student Council member and their closest person to a "drugs and sex" ride so they can fight and eventually lose to Utena AGAIN. |
SouthRzVaApr 27, 2021 11:48 PM
| Akio's still a creep and like, why wasn't Miki concerned when Kozue said she's on a date with Akio??? It's not as if he didn't know that Akio's an adult either, and even if Kozue doesn't care he's an adult it's weird that Miki didn't care And what's with Anthy being with Miki's father too?.. |
| I think this show has just completely fried my brain at this point: other than the repetition, I have no idea what's going on anymore. What does the car symbolism mean? Fuck knows. Why did Touga disappear for an entire cour only to be super-important in helping Akio persuade the council to fight Utena again? Fuck knows. Why are people just turning into Anthy every now and then? Fuck knows. Why is Nanami still getting screentime? Fuck knows. I kind of want to take a break to recharge before I jump back in for the final cour, but doing that right at the start of what I'm presuming is the final arc probably isn't a good idea at all. If I was going to do that, I should have done it after episode 24, in hindsight. |
| i'm actually quite impressed about how epic are the battle scenes |
 lets all love lain. |
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