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Poll: Revolutionary Girl Utena Episode 9 Discussion


#1
Aug 29, 2009 6:56 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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That was a fierce episode. I really liked it. I have a much better understanding of Touga now, that's for sure.
 
#2
Sep 17, 2009 2:47 AM

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Just when I think this show is getting predictable everything turns around, I thought saionji turned a new leaf but i guess not, and Touga? I dont even know anymore

 
#3
Apr 2, 2010 8:43 AM

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This has to be one of my favourite episodes. We get to learn a lot more about Saionji's frame of mind, see a shadier side of Touga, and catch more glimpses of the End of the World.

The flashback was done beautifully. It's clear it was on that day that Saionji and Touga's friendship turned into rivalry, mostly on the part of Saionji, with his inability to disprove young Utena's claim that there's nothing eternal, and his certainty that Touga rescued Utena. Suddenly Touga's a bigger person, and they were no longer equal. Their friendship began to unravel like the bandage Touga tied around Saionji's hand the moment Saionji believed this.

Also, in episode 2 (or 3?), didn't Saionji say something along the lines of how the Rose Bride has no will of her own? This is all the more reason, I believe, for his obsession with wanting to show her eternity. Or rather, to show himself that eternity exists. As long as he asks her to stay, she will because she has no will of her own and that's one constant for Saionji. The poor guy's reaction when Touga bravely opened the coffin; no wonder he'd want someone who'd sit still and accept his slap-happy ways with a smile for eternity...

Once more, the shadow girls' play was brilliant in describing Saionji's shattered illusions of eternal friendship and his yearning to cling on to something, in spite of his fantasies being crushed by reality.
 
#4
Nov 11, 2010 4:28 PM

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Ouch, what a bitch you are, Touga
頭脳は子供、見た目は大人! ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ
 
#5
Mar 14, 2011 9:20 PM

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Best episode so far. I am definitely impressed with with the Shadow girls play each and very time I see it.
 
#6
Apr 10, 2011 1:27 PM

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What the hell just happened ?
"I'm commander Shepard, and Legend of the Galactic Heroes is my favorite anime in the galaxy"
 
#7
Jun 30, 2011 5:17 PM

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So, the "End of The World" is a lesbian woman. And Touga talks directly to her, and can send letters in her name...
 
#8
Jul 3, 2011 10:46 PM

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Brilliant episode....I was fucking blown away.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
#9
Jul 28, 2011 10:50 AM

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Touga is the schemer type, the staight forward Saonji will never be a match for him

that girl in the flash back has pink hair...
 
Sep 11, 2011 12:15 PM
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Touga is the machiavellan guy while Saonji really is no match for him. And how will Himemiya fit in all of this?
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
Oct 31, 2011 11:36 PM

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Wow, chessmaster Touga!

This episode really was a considerable step up from previous ones. Just brilliant in every way.
The shadow girl play is as brilliant as always. I feel like they're somehow related to End of the World.

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Dec 6, 2011 11:17 AM

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Definitely the best episode so far. Show is getting interesting now.
 
Dec 23, 2011 9:46 PM

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Awesome episode and Touga actually looked younger in the flashback this time.
 
Apr 28, 2012 9:00 AM

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I'm somewhat confused about what happened on this episode, but damn that was good.
 
Aug 1, 2012 7:08 AM

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Their relationships are really complicated.


 
Aug 22, 2012 8:39 PM

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LOl who the hell name themselves "The End of the World"?
Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone
 
Sep 4, 2012 10:26 PM

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I liked the flashback this episode - also, Touga's character is an interesting one. I mean, he's a bastard; but, he's not just any bastard, but a talented and cunning one.
 
Sep 12, 2012 11:03 PM

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Well, I'm finally starting to understand all the symbolism in this show. Other than that... just wow. This episode was brilliant.
 
Nov 23, 2012 5:07 PM
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Very good episode... completely different to the laid back ep8.
 
Feb 5, 2013 1:56 PM

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That was a great episode.
 
Feb 8, 2013 12:46 AM

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This episode make me hunger to put more pieces together about The End of The World and how Utena and Anthy fit into it... Can't wait to see more!
 
Mar 29, 2013 1:30 PM
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Awesome but confusing episode!
 
Jul 13, 2013 10:47 PM

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Best episode yet! Was thinking about dropping the anime, but after seeing this ep. I have to give it more of a chance
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Nov 18, 2014 8:22 AM
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Everyone is talking about how good the episode is, but I have no idea what just happened. And it's not in that good WTF sense also. As in, I literally have no idea at all what story was being told in this episode.
 
Dec 31, 2014 9:19 AM

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Touga winning the hearts of the ladies, what a playboy dayum
 
Jan 7, 2015 2:30 PM

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It was quite an interesting episode like most have said... poor anthy though. ;;
 
Mar 13, 2015 6:59 PM

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not completely sure if I got that, but an interesting episode. Touga seems like he remembers Utena from that flashback but she doesn't
 
Mar 30, 2015 8:10 PM

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damm a lot of weird shit this episode
show is getting pretty intense
[/quote]
 
Jul 15, 2015 5:40 PM

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Got pretty weird and plot intensive suddenly. Maybe it'll pick up.
 
Nov 23, 2015 12:26 AM
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Another duel and some more talk about revolution...
 
Feb 13, 2016 8:13 PM

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Touga, you conniving son of a bitch...
 
Feb 22, 2016 1:35 AM
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"Your prince was someone like me."

Well, isn't that fucking ominous.
 
Jul 30, 2016 9:51 PM

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Anthy couldn't go an episode without getting slapped.
 
Aug 26, 2016 6:33 AM

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I hope things become clearer because it's somewhat confusing :-/
 
Oct 2, 2016 12:55 PM

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Holy shit, so much plot progression at once! Took long enough. I hope the show keeps this pace up.

Does the Prince really exist, I wonder..
 
Feb 26, 2017 11:49 AM

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why does Anthy always get hit? i just hate it
so far this all is pure nonsense. but i'll watch more and. well.who knows
i love whoever reads this.
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Apr 24, 2017 7:10 AM
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Schemer.
And to think he has one day to plan for all that, complete with props like coffin, rose, rising columns, ....
 
May 30, 2017 11:14 PM

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I don't understand why so many can't seem to follow this. The story has seemed pretty straightforward to me ever since the second episode.

This was an excellent character episode. It's interesting that both Touga and Saionji met Utena right after her parents died. Aside from the more obvious development it revealed between Touga and Saionji, it also makes be think Touga may legitimately believe he is the "prince" Utena met in her childhood if he remembers meeting her.

The mystery behind the castle is getting teased at more also. I wonder if Touga set all of that up. He's apparently talking to End of the World directly, so he may be more involved in what's going on than the other duelists.

Best episode so far.
 
Aug 9, 2017 9:18 AM

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Despite all the teasing, I don't think Touga is Utena's prince.

Oh shit, Saionji got expelled. R.I.P.
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Aug 10, 2017 7:42 PM
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There goes all ambiguity about Touga I guess.

So Sajoinji completely lost it in the end because he couldn't save Anthy? Not sure how that slash could possibly result in a shallow wound.
 
Sep 7, 2017 5:46 AM

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Touga has been giving me the creeps from the start, and it's kind of hard to celebrate that he's exactly as bad as he seemed. But now Saionji makes more sense to me, so that's cool.

Lorezhno said:
Not sure how that slash could possibly result in a shallow wound.

Plot armor, or possibly a training sword

TripleSRank said:
I don't understand why so many can't seem to follow this.

With so many bizarre things happening at the same time, and with all these over-the-top conflicts, it's hard to stay invested in any of it. The difficulty lies less in knowing what's happening at the moment, and more in recognizing why those things matter. So far, Tenjou has been the character I could cling to in all this, but this episode abandoned her perspective, so I got disconnected a bit as well.
Modified by LeeTailor, Sep 7, 2017 6:16 AM
 
Oct 25, 2017 4:02 AM

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I wonder whether this is the last we'll be seeing of Saionji. On the one hand it would seem lazy and somewhat disappointing to build up the intrigue of a character just as they leave the show, but on the other hand I don't know where they could take his character further from here. The guy's pretty fucking nuts.

Edit: I just realised, aren't Touga's actions similar to that kid with Nanami a few episodes back?
Modified by OldManHands, Oct 25, 2017 4:35 AM
 
Jan 2, 2018 1:27 PM

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Wonder what did the letter said exactly, and why Anthy was lying there unconscious. So, episode by episode they try to beat themselves at who is the worst character of them all xD.

I didn't have any doubts about Touga being fishy,in fact, i'd be surprised if it didn't turn out to be like that.

Don't they realize that the girl they found that day so long ago was Utena? Or only Saionji doesn't realize but Touga does?

What in the world happened to bring the castle down and cause that mess?

Number of slaps: 8 slaps so far :3
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Apr 1, 2018 1:11 PM

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Easily the best episode yet and I loved how it portrayed what's going on in Saionji.

Also, well played Touga,well played..
Kokoro did nothing wrong.

 
Oct 17, 2018 7:19 AM
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This episode was awesome, I really loved that flashback at the Church.
 
Dec 3, 2018 1:29 PM

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I knew Touga wasn't prince, he's a cheap playboy at most :x Hope Utena doesn't fall for him now, she'd get her heart broken!
 
May 8, 5:15 AM

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That was a powerful episode indeed. Of course, there's a lot of confusion about the events on the arena. Here's what I think:

The castle in the sky is said to contain some 'eternity'. Why does it crush and fall on Saionji? Because, for the second time in his life, his belief in 'eternal' is destroyed, because Anthy is inside the coffin and looks dead (so life is not eternal), just like the pink-haired girl (well it was Utena) from his childhood. What about the first time then? I think that the moment Saionji dropped the bandage Touga had given him, he almost lost hope that there's anything eternal in this world. It's obvious after Touga's reply (he tells Saionji to show the girl something eternal in order to save her, heavily implying that it's impossible). Thus, the whole episode is mostly about Saionji and his relationship with Touga, as well as complete destruction of Saionji's beliefs about eternity and friendship (which is probably the only thing he believed to be eternal).
As for the rest of the scene, Utena plays the role of the prince again, saving Anthy. And Touga saves Utena, because...because what? I believe that he remembers his encounter with Utena in their childhood and legitimately believes that he is indeed the prince she's talking about. It's not random that Touga has been showing the most interest in Utena among all the Council members since the beginning of the series.

Also, I guess Touga was the one who staged everything on the arena...probably

By the way, did anyone notice Juri's hands and voice in the scene with shadow princesses? Was she thrown in just because she fits thematically (doesn't believe in miracles and so on), or is she connected with the princesses in some way?

Also, found Ikuhara's commentary on many episodes and other related Utena stuff:
https://www.gwern.net/docs/anime/1997-utena
I guess it's better to read this after completing the series though.

P.S. Came up with another interpretation. Since Saionji believed that Touga gave something eternal to young Utena, he wanted to give the same thing to Anthy...and failed again because of Touga. Kinda sad.
Modified by St0rmblade, May 8, 5:40 AM
 
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