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HikaruIzumi said: Well, in F/SN (at least anime ver.) it was stated outright that those that see it and aren't involved should die. We haven't heard of this in F/Z while no audience was quite a big deal in F/SN. But that was SN Lancer so maybe he just went for the more fun/easier solution. I get the thing with Mayia but still. No one even mentioned it so far. Only when there were many people watching (Caster issue). That's why I think it was Kirie's command in FSN.I think Rin also mentioned it but Kirie was her guardian and teacher so maybe she just thought that this was a rule |
Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. Just like others said he's not serious at all. If he was serious the grail would've been over on the first night. Well it is part of his character. And he doesn't go all out unless he considers you as 'worthy'. Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? Because I saw a glimpse of what happens when he gets a little serious in Fate hollow. Hopefully we'll also see it here in Zero. you won't be disappointed |
Topgunuk69 said: "To Father Risei, supervisor of the fourth Heaven's Feel, this was truly an extremely tiring night. This was the second time he had assumed the office of supervisor of the Heaven's Feel, but he had never dreamed that a situation so difficult to deal with would arise. Precisely because of the large scale of the series of problems that had arisen, in order to eliminate evidence, not only the Holy Church, but even the Magi's Association was also acting in secret. To both sides of these two large groups, the situation had already developed to a point that - rather than quarrelling amongst themselves and defining their respective spheres of influence, they had to prioritize on considering how to pick up the pieces. On the surface, the strange incident not far from the Mion River was attributed to poisonous gases produced by chemical reactions caused by industrial waste--this report could temporarily deceive the public. The patrolling media truck was also constantly broadcasting that inhaling the toxic fumes could cause hallucinations, and that people living along the shores should hasten to the hospital for treatment. Of course, all the hospitals that could conduct diagnostics at night had already been infiltrated by magi and Executors skilled in brainwashing through the power of suggestion; they were currently anxiously awaiting orders. It should be possible to thus eliminate the majority of witness statements, but not the source of rumors. The procedure for purchasing two F15 fighter machines from Middle Eastern weapon merchants had just been completed; this was the result of the Clock Tower playing the middle man. Though it was a second-hand C-model plane, at this critical point there really was absolutely no time to take this into account. The two F15s, on which the flag of Japan had been temporarily painted, would be delivered to the fortified air base; all that's left is to take the opportunity to exchange incompatible parts, and then assemble the J-model fighter plane." I feel kinda better knowing that they made a bigger issue out of it in the novel. Thanks for the info. But still. Thinking that it was what started F/SN and they barely menton it in (anime!)F/Z. Oh, whatever, they changed Gilgameshes power level so this isn't so bad. XD ssjokg said: That's why I think it was Kirie's command in FSN.I think Rin also mentioned it but Kirie was her guardian and teacher so maybe she just thought that this was a rule That actually makes sense too. Kirei could have manipulated her. I didn't think of that. |
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| Gil's power level is the same.He just lacks motivation in FSN. |
HikaruIzumi said: He is one of the strongest but I don't believe he is THE strongest. There are many heroes equal to him or very close (i.e. Zero Berserker). But in F/SN, Saber was closest to him power wise (and for known reasons she couldn't go all out) so if he cared enough that would have been an easy win. However, he didn't. He was just having fun not fighting for real. Pretty much my original point. I agree that Gil could've won FSN pretty easily if he had acted quickly, but that's mostly because everyone else was fairly useless to begin with. BloodRequiem said: both instances Gil coulda smoked berserker's ass but both times berserker was saved by plot armour first fight if tokiomi didnt call GIl back berserker would have died from that GOB spam alone no need to even pull out Ea second fight: Gil had berserker trapped between his GOB and the sea monster but rider sucked that thing away so it gave berserker a chance to escape berserker is nowhere near his tier No. More like Berserker is the best anti-GOB Servant due to his ability, except maybe Archer with UBW. ssjokg said: 1. 2. In terms of abilities he is way below most of the servants (thats because he relies way too much in GoB)and even Shirou could fight against him.But he has the strongest NP in both of the 4th and 5th war.And Zero Berserker is the strongest in terms of abilities so if they fought normally Gil wouldnt have any chance Normally as in without Ea? I think I mostly agree with this. For 1 and 2 though, 1. I'm expecting Ea spam. 2. Wasn't that due more to Kiritsugu and Kirei and less to Gil himself? Anyways, yes, he is good with Ea, but I think that's more his weakness than anything else. Even without his personality failings, he relies too much on a couple NPs (GoB, Ea) and is rather lackluster elsewhere. Countering them effectively means it's over for him. |
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ataraxial said: HikaruIzumi said: He is one of the strongest but I don't believe he is THE strongest. There are many heroes equal to him or very close (i.e. Zero Berserker). But in F/SN, Saber was closest to him power wise (and for known reasons she couldn't go all out) so if he cared enough that would have been an easy win. However, he didn't. He was just having fun not fighting for real. Pretty much my original point. I agree that Gil could've won FSN pretty easily if he had acted quickly, but that's mostly because everyone else was fairly useless to begin with. BloodRequiem said: both instances Gil coulda smoked berserker's ass but both times berserker was saved by plot armour first fight if tokiomi didnt call GIl back berserker would have died from that GOB spam alone no need to even pull out Ea second fight: Gil had berserker trapped between his GOB and the sea monster but rider sucked that thing away so it gave berserker a chance to escape berserker is nowhere near his tier No. More like Berserker is the best anti-GOB Servant due to his ability, except maybe Archer with UBW. ssjokg said: 1. 2. In terms of abilities he is way below most of the servants (thats because he relies way too much in GoB)and even Shirou could fight against him.But he has the strongest NP in both of the 4th and 5th war.And Zero Berserker is the strongest in terms of abilities so if they fought normally Gil wouldnt have any chance Normally as in without Ea? I think I mostly agree with this. For 1 and 2 though, 1. I'm expecting Ea spam. 2. Wasn't that due more to Kiritsugu and Kirei and less to Gil himself? Anyways, yes, he is good with Ea, but I think that's more his weakness than anything else. Even without his personality failings, he relies too much on a couple NPs (GoB, Ea) and is rather lackluster elsewhere. Countering them effectively means it's over for him. 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Yeah only with normal weapons.And I am talking only about Gil vs Berserker. 2. The same goes for the other Servants too.Rider is way too strong for others because of his RM.Saber has Excalibur.FSN Archer has UBW etc... He relies only in GoB.He has used Ea only against two opponents and tried against one. I dont know about Ataraxia... |
ssjokg said: Yeah only with normal weapons.And I am talking only about Gil vs Berserker. 2. The same goes for the other Servants too.Rider is way too strong for others because of his RM.Saber has Excalibur.FSN Archer has UBW etc... He relies only in GoB.He has used Ea only against two opponents and tried against one. I dont know about Ataraxia... ataraxia Ea blast is probably the strongest |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? |
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ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? f-15 battle berserker was getting owned til rider intervened and sucked that monster away that passage was proving that 16 is not GOB's maximum spamming potential not to mention the effects that comes with the higher tiered NPs |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| @BloodRequiem cant wait for the translation patch to be completed. About GoB :I wont count Deen's adaptions since most of the NPs didnt even flew towards Shirou(I think they were more than 16 against Shirou in the VN but the anime was ridiculous) but yeah Berserker would have trouble against if it wasnt for Tokiomi's command. And that comes from someone that loves Zero Berserker. About Gil vs Berserker:only in terms of abilities not NP |
ssjokg said: @BloodRequiem cant wait for the translation patch to be completed. About GoB :I wont count Deen's adaptions since most of the NPs didnt even flew towards Shirou(I think they were more than 16 against Shirou in the VN but the anime was ridiculous) but yeah Berserker would have trouble against if it wasnt for Tokiomi's command. And that comes from someone that loves Zero Berserker. About Gil vs Berserker:only in terms of abilities not NP if we are merely basing everything on stats then the berserker class would truly be screwed mad enhancement makes a servant unable to defend properly the reason 4th war zerker survived was because of his knight of honour and eternal arms mastership and the only reason 5th war berserker didnt get slaughtered is because of godhand being a berserker makes the heroic spirit weaker the whole reason that servants are so strong is because of their noble phantasms and stuff like eye of the mind/instinct |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| I am talking only about Zero Berserker.If you give both Gil and him a normal sword,do you think Gil has any chance? wait not normal just give Gil a weapon with the same rank that berserker has |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 3:10 PM
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? f-15 battle berserker was getting owned til rider intervened and sucked that monster away that passage was proving that 16 is not GOB's maximum spamming potential not to mention the effects that comes with the higher tiered NPs My thoughts are simply that Berserker should've used the flak/flare attack earlier. Can't imagine anything other than plot delaying Gil from that inevitable defeat. ssjokg said: I am talking only about Zero Berserker.If you give both Gil and him a normal sword,do you think Gil has any chance? Same goes for FSN Berserker given that set-up. |
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| I just dont care about FSN berserker.... |
ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? f-15 battle berserker was getting owned til rider intervened and sucked that monster away that passage was proving that 16 is not GOB's maximum spamming potential not to mention the effects that comes with the higher tiered NPs My thoughts are simply that Berserker should've used the flak/flare attack earlier. Can't imagine anything other than plot delaying Gil from that inevitable defeat. ssjokg said: I am talking only about Zero Berserker.If you give both Gil and him a normal sword,do you think Gil has any chance? Same goes for FSN Berserker given that set-up. Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked there is a reason why he is an archer telling him to engage in a sword fight would be like telling saber to use magecraft |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. |
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| thats why I am talking about abilities and not Class or weapon NPs. We will never see that fight so it doesnt matter anyway. I cant say much about the dogfight.I know for sure that Vimana is way better than a F15 turned into a noble phantasm so I beleive that Gil would have the upper hand eventually... |
ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 3:30 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling Spoiler tags exist for a reason. Also, assertions are nice by themselves. |
ataraxialApr 29, 2012 3:43 PM
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BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling non berserker mode yes he might have a chance but mad enhanced extremely unlikely better put his name in spoilers if there is anyone lucky enough that doesnt know You believe that he has a better chance ,lets say as a saber class,against 20+ GoB simultaneous attacks? I can see that yeah but without the mad enhancement , Gil would probably get serious later... |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 4:59 PM
ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling non berserker mode yes he might have a chance but mad enhanced extremely unlikely better put his name in spoilers if there is anyone lucky enough that doesnt know You believe that he has a better chance ,lets say as a saber class,against 20+ GoB attacks? I believe that he thinks that Berserkers tend to be weaker for some reason. |
ataraxialApr 29, 2012 5:02 PM
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ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling better put his name in spoilers if there is anyone lucky enough that doesnt know You believe that he has a better chance ,lets say as a saber class,against 20+ GoB attacks? as a berserker he loses full use of and if he had eye of the mind or battle instinct he probably lost that as well also hampers swordsmanship skills same with hercules lost ability to use 9 lives a huge chunk of his swordsmanship skills and eye of the mind |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 5:43 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| @ataraxial it's true that Berserkers lose most defensive skills(if not all) but the one in Zero is a bit of a special case... @BloodRequiem I know that he would be like on a entire different skill than before but..I modified my previous post you probably didnt see it: "I can see that yeah but without the mad enhancement , Gil would probably get serious later..." |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 3:37 PM
ssjokg said: it's true that Berserkers lose most defensive skills(if not all) but the one in Zero is a bit of a special case... I know that he would be like on a entire different skill than before but..I modified my previous post you probably didnt see it: "I can see that yeah but without the mad enhancement , Gil would probably get serious later..." thats why i said he might have a chance because we do not know what which isnt alot |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. |
ssjokg said: Most of that was mentioned in extra info about Zero's Servants I believe. Nasu likes being truough about his universe, especially about the little details. Like mentioning all the arsenal Vimana had (nuclear weapons !) even though Archer doesnt even use one of them (he just spammed GoB like an idiot). Besides, Character Material books makes Type-moon money.we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. And I tend to agree Berserkers, even though they get stronger in stats, turn into weaker warriors. Heracles is a good example of what would have probably been the stronger Heroic Spirit in the 5th War with the ability to actually use Nine Lives and his A+ Bravery skill, both of them disabled by his Mad Enhancement. Add to those two skills his God Hand (which makes it impossible for lower ranked weapons to hurt him), a higher Divinity than Gilgamesh's (A for Heracles, B for Gil), A in Battle Continuation and B in Eye of the Mind (Fake) and you can say he has the best overall skills of all of the Heroic Spirits in the 5th war... IF HE WAS NOT A BLOODY BERSERKER. God god Einzberns, why are you always so stupid. |
Leon-GunApr 29, 2012 4:08 PM
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| Finally the REAL Kirei is HERE! |
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Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Most of that was mentioned in extra info about Zero's Servants I believe. Nasu likes being true about his universe, especially about the little details. Like mentioning all the arsenal Vimana had (nuclear weapons !) evn though Archer doesnt even use one of them (he just spammed GoB like an idiot).we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. So that means everything about their abilities/NP in the typemoon.wikia is correct? thats great if it's true. |
Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Most of that was mentioned in extra info about Zero's Servants I believe. Nasu likes being truough about his universe, especially about the little details. Like mentioning all the arsenal Vimana had (nuclear weapons !) even though Archer doesnt even use one of them (he just spammed GoB like an idiot). Besides, Character Material books makes Type-moon money.we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. And I tend to agree Berserkers, even though they get stronger in stats, turn into weaker warriors. Heracles is a good example of what would have probably been the stronger Heroic Spirit in the 5th War with the ability to actually use Nine Lives and his A+ Bravery skill, both of them disabled by his Mad Enhancement. Add to those two skills his God Hand (which makes it impossible for lower ranked weapons to hurt him), a higher Divinity than Gilgamesh's (A for Heracles, B for Gil), A in Battle Continuation and B in Eye of the Mind (Fake) and you can say he has the best overall skills of all of the Heroic Spirits in the 5th war... IF HE WAS NOT A BLOODY BERSERKER. God god Einzberns, why are you always so stupid. in a nasu interview he said that the einzberns was scared of so they wanted a mindless dog |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: More or less. But like I said, it's all just there for extra pondering since he never uses them to his advantage. IMO, it's possible Avalon resisted Ea only because he never expected her to have Avalon in the first ace (she had never used Avalon, ever, and Avalon was supposed to have been lost to begin with) although there's still the possibility it would have withheld, since, just like Ea, Avalon is not of this world and it's power is literally supposed to be an impregnable protection which doesn't allows it's wearer to die.Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Most of that was mentioned in extra info about Zero's Servants I believe. Nasu likes being true about his universe, especially about the little details. Like mentioning all the arsenal Vimana had (nuclear weapons !) evn though Archer doesnt even use one of them (he just spammed GoB like an idiot).we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. So that means everything about their abilities/NP in the typemoon.wikia is correct? thats great if it's true. BloodRequiem said: That makes sense. And indeed, even though he had a wee too many times where he went insane, he died as a hero and turned into a god so his personality would probably not go well together with their interests. In fact, even as a Berserker Heracles protected Ilya as if she was his daughter...It wouldn't have been too farfetched to think that if Heracles had been a normal Servant he would have helped Ilya snap away from the cruel way of thinking Acht inserted in hier head. |
Leon-GunApr 29, 2012 4:20 PM
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| I just kinda started liking Tokiomi and there he goes dying on me. Maybe I only liked him because I knew he was gonna die and started noticing the things he did before his death. |
| Yeah, as a Rin fan I was grinning like an idiot when Tokiomi gave her the book and had the exact same dialogue he has in the prologue of Fate/stay night. Of course, things rapidly went tragic from there. Still, I'm glad they had that detail in there. As for the rest of the episode, I haven't read the novel but this felt fairly rushed. It was still good, though, and it was interesting as ever to see Kirei and Gil's conversations. Again, the way Tokiomi went out was as....anti-climatic as ever. Despite my choice of words I do find it to be an interesting way for this war to play out. Especially in contrast to Fate/stay night where there are a lot of huge battle scenes where servants/masters at least get the opportunity to go out in a respectable manner. Not so here. Death is disgusting and lacking in honor and it fits the themes of this story. Still, it feels as though this episode was missing something that hopefully the blu-rays can provide. Next episode seems really interesting. |
Ston3_FreeN7Apr 29, 2012 4:52 PM
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3soldiern said: Yeah, as a Rin fan I was grinning like an idiot when Tokiomi gave her the book and had the exact same dialogue he has in the prologue of Fate/stay night. Of course, things rapidly went tragic from there. Still, I'm glad they had that detail in there. As for the rest of the episode, I haven't read the novel but this felt fairly rushed. It was still good, though, and it was interesting as ever to see Kirei and Gil's conversations. Again, the way Tokiomi went out was as....anti-climatic as ever. Despite my choice of words I do find it to be an interesting way for this war to play out. Especially in contrast to Fate/stay night where there are a lot of huge battle scenes where servants/masters at least get the opportunity to go out in a respectable manner. Not so here. Death is disgusting and lacking in honor and it fits the themes of this story. Next episode seems really interesting. I believe that Gilgamesh's next fight has what you are looking for and you will be really satisfied.The other two fights have no trace of honor. |
| @ ssjokg, ataraxial, BloodRequiem: If you guys dont want to spoil Berserker's true identity, you might want to remove or edit the quoting as well. (Referring to #224, 225, 226 posts) @ insan3soldiern: Lovely avatar btw. |
sallym613Apr 29, 2012 5:00 PM
| #224 done I told him to put spoiler stags while i didnt...derp |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 5:04 PM
sallym613 said: @ insan3soldiern: Lovely avatar btw. Sorry to go off topic but, you mean the Saber one? I can't even see it, I still have the Asuka one on my screen. @ ssjokg Your spoiler both breaks my heart and makes me all the more interested. But, well, at least that character in question gets a second chance unlike everyone else. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Ahh I missed one. #225 Done |
|
insan3soldiern said: sallym613 said: @ insan3soldiern: Lovely avatar btw. Sorry to go off topic but, you mean the Saber one? I can't even see it, I still have the Asuka one on my screen. @ ssjokg Your spoiler both breaks my heart and makes me all the more interested. But, well, at least that character in question gets a second chance unlike everyone else. yeah but the others forget about it when they leave the war.That one doesnt but still acts like before. |
| Oh great the Gilgamesh power level debates seep into MAL too huh? A few points that people seem to be missing, then: 1. Gilgamesh IS weaker in Fate/Stay Night. Kirei sucks as a Master, while Tokiomi does not. His stats in F/Z are Strength B, Endurance B, Agility B, Mana A, Luck A, NP EX. While in F/SN Endurance, Agility, and Mana all drop a rank. B/B/B/A/A/EX isn't weak by any means, and this makes him the only non Berserker Servant that doesn't suck at any stat. (compare Saber's D rank Luck and Rider's D Agility in Zero). Later Fate/Zero spoilers: 2. The novels almost flat out state that Berserker would not have been able to repel 32 Noble Phantasms and he was nearing his limit with 16 as it was. Other people already covered the F-15 vs Vimana fight so I'll leave that alone. Also, as it has been said, Gilgamesh is Archer. He's not meant to fight in straight combat on par with, say, Saber. Also, Berserker is the most skilled sword wielding hero PERIOD. He'll win pretty much any fight that's just a one on one sword duel. As a side note, because of Kariya's mana situation, even if Berserker could repel 100 weapons Gilgamesh could just spam him until Kariya is completely drained. 3. As somebody else has said, he's not the only one that relies on his Noble Phantasm. Saber wins exactly 2 fights within Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero without using her Noble Phantasms. And unlike Gilgamesh, she won a few of them with plot hax. 4. Fate/Zero ending spoilers, not relevant to Gilgamesh's power but since somebody asked about him vs Saber: 5. F/SN Fate route spoilers, vs Saber: 6. F/SN UBW route spoilers, vs you know who: 7. F/SN Heaven's Feel spoilers, vs...it should be obvious tl;dr: Gate of Babylon's huge array of weapons means he can exploit almost any Servants weakness (for example, Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons), he can win most fights just by mindlessly spamming Gate of Babylon, and Ea is an "I win" button. People have to remember that Gilgamesh never fights weaker Servants. Every time he is against one, they just die in two seconds, like you know who in Fate. All of his fights that last more than a minute are against top tier Servants, and they STILL have trouble beating him. His arrogance is a flaw because he DOES have to try to beat top tier heroes, but without trying he still mops the floor with probably 90% of all Servants. I really hope that didn't sound like fanwank, this is just a pet peeve of mine amongst Type Moon fans. Gilgamesh vs Arcueid, sure, THAT is a debate (that has no answer so if I accidentally started that, fuck me), but against other Servants? Really? |
| Hmm. I see the time of edit but they're still not in spoiler tags. MAL lagging or glitch? @ insan3soldiern: Yes the Saber one. Sucks to hear that you can't see it though :| Maybe you'll get to see it within a few days? |
| @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? |
TheRealBoyd said: (Fanwank) We accept you though. sallym613 said: Hmm. I see the time of edit but they're still not in spoiler tags. MAL lagging or glitch? @ insan3soldiern: Yes the Saber one. Sucks to hear that you can't see it though :| Maybe you'll get to see it within a few days? I didn't actually put in the spoiler tags for that one, just removed the name. Same for ssjokg, I believe. BR still needs to edit though. sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? It's in the VN somewhere, probably in the servant status menu. |
|
sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? its prob in the character materials |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 5:53 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? she was born with the prana core of a dragon hence the name pendragon Post #226. Remove spoiler. Let's go. |
|
ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? Post #226. Remove spoiler. Let's go. its not about fate zero |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 5:42 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? she was born with the prana core of a dragon hence the name pendragon Post #226. Remove spoiler. Let's go. its not about fate zero See context above. Hint: quote. |
|
ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? Post #226. Remove spoiler. Let's go. its not about fate zero See context above. Hint: quote. it was in his legend |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 5:42 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| @BloodRequiem sallym613 said: @ ssjokg, ataraxial, BloodRequiem: If you guys dont want to spoil Berserker's true identity, you might want to remove or edit the quoting as well. (Referring to #224, 225, 226 posts) @ insan3soldiern: Lovely avatar btw. (My faith in humanity declines every day.) |
ataraxialApr 29, 2012 6:15 PM
|
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