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Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. |
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ataraxial said: Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. Just like others said he's not serious at all. If he was serious the grail would've been over on the first night. Well it is part of his character. And he doesn't go all out unless he considers you as 'worthy'. |
Ragna92Apr 29, 2012 11:07 AM
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| I must say, this keeps me entertained. I like all the schemes Emiya and Kirei pull. Heck it entertaines me even more than the fights. I kinda feel sorry for the heroic spirits though. They are too pure in heart to deserve such masters as Emiya, Kayneth or Kirei. |
Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. Just like others said he's not serious at all. If he was serious the grail would've been over on the first night. Well it is part of his character. And he doesn't go all out unless he considers you as 'worthy'. Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? |
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ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. Just like others said he's not serious at all. If he was serious the grail would've been over on the first night. Well it is part of his character. And he doesn't go all out unless he considers you as 'worthy'. Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? Because I saw a glimpse of what happens when he gets a little serious in Fate hollow. Hopefully we'll also see it here in Zero. |
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| The murder scene was perfect |
lasercannon said: ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. Just like others said he's not serious at all. If he was serious the grail would've been over on the first night. Well it is part of his character. And he doesn't go all out unless he considers you as 'worthy'. Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? Because there are times in both F/SN and in F/Z where he actually does become serious. So why hasn't he won a grail war in a day during those moments of seriousness? |
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| My favorite character is dead... |
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ataraxial said: Because he always went "oops, I think I broke you. Hahahahahahaha!" and walked away. He stops being serious when the fight becomes boring. Honestly though, Gilfgamesh as a warrior isn't really super-powerful. Even Archer notes that he can defeat him with a good plan, but all plans have to take into consideration the "tricking him into not going all out" thing because he has some really cheap weapons, and one of them is so cheap it's the only "Anti Planet" class Noble Phantasm in all the War.So why hasn't he won a grail war in a day during those moments of seriousness? You remember Gilgamesh's Ea that Tokiomi wanted him to use against Caster? That sword completely and utterly eclipses even Excalibur. GIlgamesh basically shows how much he doesn't care by saying "You want me to use it against this rable?" meaning he considered them so below that they were only worth of fighting his lowest treasures. That's his flaw. |
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| Poor Tokiyomi, I actually liked him. I knew he would die but... this was kinda... bad. I liked Kirei and Gilgamesh before. I'm indifferent to them now. The only person I still like without any doubts is Waver (and Rider) and Irisviel, out of those alive and not counting the F/SN generation, of course. Mayia is awesome but too cold for my liking and others are either dead or too messed up. (Yeah, Saber, I'm looking at you too.) Aside from that, nice episode. I enjoyed the Kirei/Gilgamesh talk and I'm kinda glad that they're a team now (too bad it included killing Tokiyomi). I'm pretty sure Kirei and Gil do something next ep that will make me like them again. XD They are too much of a funny "pair" (am I the only one who sees some chemistry between them?) not to. It was nice to see Rin again. It made me d'aww. But I do wonder what about the jewel she was supposed to get. I'm pretty sure she was supposed to get it now. I might be wrong though. Also Kirei's seals were a surprise. I mean, he has them in F/SN. The longer this keeps going the more I see it as an alternative universe. BTW what about the "kill all people that watch and shouldn't" thing that was important in F/SN?? No one is bothered by Mayia walking around and I never saw anyone comment on that. Sure, Risei did say somehing about covering the Caster thing up but he didn't mention killing. Actually, I got the feeling that they want to erase memory of those people or something of that kind. Thus not having enough people (capable of doing that). If they wanted to just kill them, anyone would do. And he didn't say that it would be suspicious. Just that they didn't have enough people so it got out of hand. ataraxial said: So why hasn't he won a grail war in a day during those moments of seriousness? I'm not sure what it looked like in F/Z since I haven't read the novel, but pretty much each time he got serious in F/SN he either stopped right away since his goal got completed (just small goals, to relieve from boredom) or when he decided to get serious (during a fight), it was way too late for him to turn the tables. He is one of the strongest but I don't believe he is THE strongest. There are many heroes equal to him or very close (i.e. Zero Berserker). But in F/SN, Saber was closest to him power wise (and for known reasons she couldn't go all out) so if he cared enough that would have been an easy win. However, he didn't. He was just having fun not fighting for real. |
SuiNoByakkoApr 29, 2012 1:27 PM
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| It was never a rule of the War to kill those that find out...The magi and the Church can alter people's memories(see Waver) but killing them is faster and more effective.Apart from Kirie(and Tokiomi in this ep) I dont think anyone has ever saw Maiya.If it wasnt for the Mist during Caster's fight Risei would have a lot of trouble. In FSN the only time I remember this happening is with Shirou.And Lancer's master is Kirie who also is the supervisor. ataraxial said: Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? So why hasn't he won a grail war in a day during those moments of seriousness? 1. 2. Lumathy said: cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. I know but that doesnt change the fact he lost to Shirou I believe he was serious against Saber in FSN but Avalon is such a bitch. Cant wait for Gil's next fight.... HikaruIzumi said: I'm not sure what it looked like in F/Z since I haven't read the novel, but pretty much each time he got serious in F/SN he either stopped right away since his goal got completed (just small goals, to relieve from boredom) or when he decided to get serious (during a fight), it was way too late for him to turn the tables. He is one of the strongest but I don't believe he is THE strongest. There are many heroes equal to him or very close (i.e. Zero Berserker). But in F/SN, Saber was closest to him power wise (and for known reasons she couldn't go all out) so if he cared enough that would have been an easy win. However, he didn't. He was just having fun not fighting for real. In terms of abilities he is way below most of the servants (thats because he relies way too much in GoB)and even Shirou could fight against him.But he has the strongest NP in both of the 4th and 5th war.And Zero Berserker is the strongest in terms of abilities so if they fought normally Gil wouldnt have any chance |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 1:50 PM
ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. Just like others said he's not serious at all. If he was serious the grail would've been over on the first night. Well it is part of his character. And he doesn't go all out unless he considers you as 'worthy'. Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? both instances Gil coulda smoked berserker's ass but both times berserker was saved by plot armour first fight if tokiomi didnt call GIl back berserker would have died from that GOB spam alone no need to even pull out Ea second fight: Gil had berserker trapped between his GOB and the sea monster but rider sucked that thing away so it gave berserker a chance to escape berserker is nowhere near his tier |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: It was never a rule of the War to kill those that find out...The magi and the Church can alter people's memories(see Waver) but killing them is faster and more effective.Apart from Kirie(and Tokiomi in this ep) I dont think anyone has ever saw Maiya.If it wasnt for the Mist during Caster's fight Risei would have a lot of trouble. In FSN the only time I remember this happening is with Shirou.And Lancer's master is Kirie who also is the supervisor. ataraxial said: Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? So why hasn't he won a grail war in a day during those moments of seriousness? 1. 2. Lumathy said: cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. I know but that doesnt change the fact he lost to Shirou I believe he was serious against Saber in FSN but Avalon is such a bitch. Cant wait for Gil's next fight.... losing against shirou was a wtf moment in UBW for me..pure CIS/PIS moment |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: losing against shirou was a wtf moment in UBW for me..pure CIS/PIS moment I believe that using Ea would have good results against Sakura but I cant say for sure.... |
ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: losing against shirou was a wtf moment in UBW for me..pure CIS/PIS moment I believe that using Ea would have good results against Sakura but I cant say for sure.... Gil underestimated her so by the time he did it was too late but seriously the Gil from FSN is blasphemous compared to Gil from F/Z on multiple occasions i was facepalming at the level of plothax working against the guy and he is supposed to have rank A luck? |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: It was never a rule of the War to kill those that find out...The magi and the Church can alter people's memories(see Waver) but killing them is faster and more effective.Apart from Kirie(and Tokiomi in this ep) I dont think anyone has ever saw Maiya.If it wasnt for the Mist during Caster's fight Risei would have a lot of trouble. In FSN the only time I remember this happening is with Shirou.And Lancer's master is Kirie who also is the supervisor. Well, in F/SN (at least anime ver.) it was stated outright that those that see it and aren't involved should die. We haven't heard of this in F/Z while no audience was quite a big deal in F/SN. But that was SN Lancer so maybe he just went for the more fun/easier solution. I get the thing with Mayia but still. No one even mentioned it so far. Only when there were many people watching (Caster issue). |
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| About Gilgamesh... We are saying the same thing to each other over and over again.Only in mal can this happen...lol |
HikaruIzumi said: ssjokg said: It was never a rule of the War to kill those that find out...The magi and the Church can alter people's memories(see Waver) but killing them is faster and more effective.Apart from Kirie(and Tokiomi in this ep) I dont think anyone has ever saw Maiya.If it wasnt for the Mist during Caster's fight Risei would have a lot of trouble. In FSN the only time I remember this happening is with Shirou.And Lancer's master is Kirie who also is the supervisor. Well, in F/SN (at least anime ver.) it was stated outright that those that see it and aren't involved should die. We haven't heard of this in F/Z while no audience was quite a big deal in F/SN. But that was SN Lancer so maybe he just went for the more fun/easier solution. I get the thing with Mayia but still. No one even mentioned it so far. Only when there were many people watching (Caster issue). "To Father Risei, supervisor of the fourth Heaven's Feel, this was truly an extremely tiring night. This was the second time he had assumed the office of supervisor of the Heaven's Feel, but he had never dreamed that a situation so difficult to deal with would arise. Precisely because of the large scale of the series of problems that had arisen, in order to eliminate evidence, not only the Holy Church, but even the Magi's Association was also acting in secret. To both sides of these two large groups, the situation had already developed to a point that - rather than quarrelling amongst themselves and defining their respective spheres of influence, they had to prioritize on considering how to pick up the pieces. On the surface, the strange incident not far from the Mion River was attributed to poisonous gases produced by chemical reactions caused by industrial waste--this report could temporarily deceive the public. The patrolling media truck was also constantly broadcasting that inhaling the toxic fumes could cause hallucinations, and that people living along the shores should hasten to the hospital for treatment. Of course, all the hospitals that could conduct diagnostics at night had already been infiltrated by magi and Executors skilled in brainwashing through the power of suggestion; they were currently anxiously awaiting orders. It should be possible to thus eliminate the majority of witness statements, but not the source of rumors. The procedure for purchasing two F15 fighter machines from Middle Eastern weapon merchants had just been completed; this was the result of the Clock Tower playing the middle man. Though it was a second-hand C-model plane, at this critical point there really was absolutely no time to take this into account. The two F15s, on which the flag of Japan had been temporarily painted, would be delivered to the fortified air base; all that's left is to take the opportunity to exchange incompatible parts, and then assemble the J-model fighter plane." |
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HikaruIzumi said: Well, in F/SN (at least anime ver.) it was stated outright that those that see it and aren't involved should die. We haven't heard of this in F/Z while no audience was quite a big deal in F/SN. But that was SN Lancer so maybe he just went for the more fun/easier solution. I get the thing with Mayia but still. No one even mentioned it so far. Only when there were many people watching (Caster issue). That's why I think it was Kirie's command in FSN.I think Rin also mentioned it but Kirie was her guardian and teacher so maybe she just thought that this was a rule |
Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Ragna92 said: ataraxial said: Lumathy said: ssjokg said: Monad said: For Gilgamesh entertainment seems to be more important than effectiveness. Besides is not like it's his wish that will get realized so why would he care about getting the grail that much if there is no amusement in it. yeah that's the reason he sucks in FSN.Even Shirou defeated him.If Gilgamesh was serious we would have won both wars. cmon now, Gilgamesh needs that flaw, with his power if he were serious then everyone would have been wiped out from round 1 and we would have no story to see. He's good, but he's not all-powerful. For instance, Zero Berserker matches him pretty well. Just like others said he's not serious at all. If he was serious the grail would've been over on the first night. Well it is part of his character. And he doesn't go all out unless he considers you as 'worthy'. Really though? How can you be so sure of how powerful he is if (as you suggest) he's never serious? Because I saw a glimpse of what happens when he gets a little serious in Fate hollow. Hopefully we'll also see it here in Zero. you won't be disappointed |
Topgunuk69 said: "To Father Risei, supervisor of the fourth Heaven's Feel, this was truly an extremely tiring night. This was the second time he had assumed the office of supervisor of the Heaven's Feel, but he had never dreamed that a situation so difficult to deal with would arise. Precisely because of the large scale of the series of problems that had arisen, in order to eliminate evidence, not only the Holy Church, but even the Magi's Association was also acting in secret. To both sides of these two large groups, the situation had already developed to a point that - rather than quarrelling amongst themselves and defining their respective spheres of influence, they had to prioritize on considering how to pick up the pieces. On the surface, the strange incident not far from the Mion River was attributed to poisonous gases produced by chemical reactions caused by industrial waste--this report could temporarily deceive the public. The patrolling media truck was also constantly broadcasting that inhaling the toxic fumes could cause hallucinations, and that people living along the shores should hasten to the hospital for treatment. Of course, all the hospitals that could conduct diagnostics at night had already been infiltrated by magi and Executors skilled in brainwashing through the power of suggestion; they were currently anxiously awaiting orders. It should be possible to thus eliminate the majority of witness statements, but not the source of rumors. The procedure for purchasing two F15 fighter machines from Middle Eastern weapon merchants had just been completed; this was the result of the Clock Tower playing the middle man. Though it was a second-hand C-model plane, at this critical point there really was absolutely no time to take this into account. The two F15s, on which the flag of Japan had been temporarily painted, would be delivered to the fortified air base; all that's left is to take the opportunity to exchange incompatible parts, and then assemble the J-model fighter plane." I feel kinda better knowing that they made a bigger issue out of it in the novel. Thanks for the info. But still. Thinking that it was what started F/SN and they barely menton it in (anime!)F/Z. Oh, whatever, they changed Gilgameshes power level so this isn't so bad. XD ssjokg said: That's why I think it was Kirie's command in FSN.I think Rin also mentioned it but Kirie was her guardian and teacher so maybe she just thought that this was a rule That actually makes sense too. Kirei could have manipulated her. I didn't think of that. |
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| Gil's power level is the same.He just lacks motivation in FSN. |
HikaruIzumi said: He is one of the strongest but I don't believe he is THE strongest. There are many heroes equal to him or very close (i.e. Zero Berserker). But in F/SN, Saber was closest to him power wise (and for known reasons she couldn't go all out) so if he cared enough that would have been an easy win. However, he didn't. He was just having fun not fighting for real. Pretty much my original point. I agree that Gil could've won FSN pretty easily if he had acted quickly, but that's mostly because everyone else was fairly useless to begin with. BloodRequiem said: both instances Gil coulda smoked berserker's ass but both times berserker was saved by plot armour first fight if tokiomi didnt call GIl back berserker would have died from that GOB spam alone no need to even pull out Ea second fight: Gil had berserker trapped between his GOB and the sea monster but rider sucked that thing away so it gave berserker a chance to escape berserker is nowhere near his tier No. More like Berserker is the best anti-GOB Servant due to his ability, except maybe Archer with UBW. ssjokg said: 1. 2. In terms of abilities he is way below most of the servants (thats because he relies way too much in GoB)and even Shirou could fight against him.But he has the strongest NP in both of the 4th and 5th war.And Zero Berserker is the strongest in terms of abilities so if they fought normally Gil wouldnt have any chance Normally as in without Ea? I think I mostly agree with this. For 1 and 2 though, 1. I'm expecting Ea spam. 2. Wasn't that due more to Kiritsugu and Kirei and less to Gil himself? Anyways, yes, he is good with Ea, but I think that's more his weakness than anything else. Even without his personality failings, he relies too much on a couple NPs (GoB, Ea) and is rather lackluster elsewhere. Countering them effectively means it's over for him. |
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ataraxial said: HikaruIzumi said: He is one of the strongest but I don't believe he is THE strongest. There are many heroes equal to him or very close (i.e. Zero Berserker). But in F/SN, Saber was closest to him power wise (and for known reasons she couldn't go all out) so if he cared enough that would have been an easy win. However, he didn't. He was just having fun not fighting for real. Pretty much my original point. I agree that Gil could've won FSN pretty easily if he had acted quickly, but that's mostly because everyone else was fairly useless to begin with. BloodRequiem said: both instances Gil coulda smoked berserker's ass but both times berserker was saved by plot armour first fight if tokiomi didnt call GIl back berserker would have died from that GOB spam alone no need to even pull out Ea second fight: Gil had berserker trapped between his GOB and the sea monster but rider sucked that thing away so it gave berserker a chance to escape berserker is nowhere near his tier No. More like Berserker is the best anti-GOB Servant due to his ability, except maybe Archer with UBW. ssjokg said: 1. 2. In terms of abilities he is way below most of the servants (thats because he relies way too much in GoB)and even Shirou could fight against him.But he has the strongest NP in both of the 4th and 5th war.And Zero Berserker is the strongest in terms of abilities so if they fought normally Gil wouldnt have any chance Normally as in without Ea? I think I mostly agree with this. For 1 and 2 though, 1. I'm expecting Ea spam. 2. Wasn't that due more to Kiritsugu and Kirei and less to Gil himself? Anyways, yes, he is good with Ea, but I think that's more his weakness than anything else. Even without his personality failings, he relies too much on a couple NPs (GoB, Ea) and is rather lackluster elsewhere. Countering them effectively means it's over for him. 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Yeah only with normal weapons.And I am talking only about Gil vs Berserker. 2. The same goes for the other Servants too.Rider is way too strong for others because of his RM.Saber has Excalibur.FSN Archer has UBW etc... He relies only in GoB.He has used Ea only against two opponents and tried against one. I dont know about Ataraxia... |
ssjokg said: Yeah only with normal weapons.And I am talking only about Gil vs Berserker. 2. The same goes for the other Servants too.Rider is way too strong for others because of his RM.Saber has Excalibur.FSN Archer has UBW etc... He relies only in GoB.He has used Ea only against two opponents and tried against one. I dont know about Ataraxia... ataraxia Ea blast is probably the strongest |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? |
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ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? f-15 battle berserker was getting owned til rider intervened and sucked that monster away that passage was proving that 16 is not GOB's maximum spamming potential not to mention the effects that comes with the higher tiered NPs |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| @BloodRequiem cant wait for the translation patch to be completed. About GoB :I wont count Deen's adaptions since most of the NPs didnt even flew towards Shirou(I think they were more than 16 against Shirou in the VN but the anime was ridiculous) but yeah Berserker would have trouble against if it wasnt for Tokiomi's command. And that comes from someone that loves Zero Berserker. About Gil vs Berserker:only in terms of abilities not NP |
ssjokg said: @BloodRequiem cant wait for the translation patch to be completed. About GoB :I wont count Deen's adaptions since most of the NPs didnt even flew towards Shirou(I think they were more than 16 against Shirou in the VN but the anime was ridiculous) but yeah Berserker would have trouble against if it wasnt for Tokiomi's command. And that comes from someone that loves Zero Berserker. About Gil vs Berserker:only in terms of abilities not NP if we are merely basing everything on stats then the berserker class would truly be screwed mad enhancement makes a servant unable to defend properly the reason 4th war zerker survived was because of his knight of honour and eternal arms mastership and the only reason 5th war berserker didnt get slaughtered is because of godhand being a berserker makes the heroic spirit weaker the whole reason that servants are so strong is because of their noble phantasms and stuff like eye of the mind/instinct |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| I am talking only about Zero Berserker.If you give both Gil and him a normal sword,do you think Gil has any chance? wait not normal just give Gil a weapon with the same rank that berserker has |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 3:10 PM
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? f-15 battle berserker was getting owned til rider intervened and sucked that monster away that passage was proving that 16 is not GOB's maximum spamming potential not to mention the effects that comes with the higher tiered NPs My thoughts are simply that Berserker should've used the flak/flare attack earlier. Can't imagine anything other than plot delaying Gil from that inevitable defeat. ssjokg said: I am talking only about Zero Berserker.If you give both Gil and him a normal sword,do you think Gil has any chance? Same goes for FSN Berserker given that set-up. |
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| I just dont care about FSN berserker.... |
ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: 16 noble phantasm is hardly considered to be the limit in fact he spammed more against shirou zerker's knight of honor is shown to only be able to act on 2 noble phantasm at once since he only has two hands and he wasnt even able to retaliate until the barrage from GOB stopped The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore. It kind of depends on how you read that passage. Based on what we know of Berserker, though, I can see him repelling 32 from GoB with only two hands. Too much speculation here anyways, who's to say that Berserker can't get a bit more creative in the style of the F-15 during the river battle? f-15 battle berserker was getting owned til rider intervened and sucked that monster away that passage was proving that 16 is not GOB's maximum spamming potential not to mention the effects that comes with the higher tiered NPs My thoughts are simply that Berserker should've used the flak/flare attack earlier. Can't imagine anything other than plot delaying Gil from that inevitable defeat. ssjokg said: I am talking only about Zero Berserker.If you give both Gil and him a normal sword,do you think Gil has any chance? Same goes for FSN Berserker given that set-up. Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked there is a reason why he is an archer telling him to engage in a sword fight would be like telling saber to use magecraft |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. |
|
| thats why I am talking about abilities and not Class or weapon NPs. We will never see that fight so it doesnt matter anyway. I cant say much about the dogfight.I know for sure that Vimana is way better than a F15 turned into a noble phantasm so I beleive that Gil would have the upper hand eventually... |
ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 3:30 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling Spoiler tags exist for a reason. Also, assertions are nice by themselves. |
ataraxialApr 29, 2012 3:43 PM
|
BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling non berserker mode yes he might have a chance but mad enhanced extremely unlikely better put his name in spoilers if there is anyone lucky enough that doesnt know You believe that he has a better chance ,lets say as a saber class,against 20+ GoB simultaneous attacks? I can see that yeah but without the mad enhancement , Gil would probably get serious later... |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 4:59 PM
ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling non berserker mode yes he might have a chance but mad enhanced extremely unlikely better put his name in spoilers if there is anyone lucky enough that doesnt know You believe that he has a better chance ,lets say as a saber class,against 20+ GoB attacks? I believe that he thinks that Berserkers tend to be weaker for some reason. |
ataraxialApr 29, 2012 5:02 PM
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ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: ataraxial said: BloodRequiem said: Gilgamesh was on guard during the early parts of the fight that flak attack would simply have been blocked Once again, too much speculation on both our parts. Point is that they're pretty well matched, at least in terms of what we've seen so far. If they weren't on similar levels, there wouldn't be anything to debate. just because they arent on similar levels doesnt mean there is no debate why else would you think there are so many shiki vs servants topics going on other than trolling better put his name in spoilers if there is anyone lucky enough that doesnt know You believe that he has a better chance ,lets say as a saber class,against 20+ GoB attacks? as a berserker he loses full use of and if he had eye of the mind or battle instinct he probably lost that as well also hampers swordsmanship skills same with hercules lost ability to use 9 lives a huge chunk of his swordsmanship skills and eye of the mind |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 5:43 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| @ataraxial it's true that Berserkers lose most defensive skills(if not all) but the one in Zero is a bit of a special case... @BloodRequiem I know that he would be like on a entire different skill than before but..I modified my previous post you probably didnt see it: "I can see that yeah but without the mad enhancement , Gil would probably get serious later..." |
ssjokgApr 29, 2012 3:37 PM
ssjokg said: it's true that Berserkers lose most defensive skills(if not all) but the one in Zero is a bit of a special case... I know that he would be like on a entire different skill than before but..I modified my previous post you probably didnt see it: "I can see that yeah but without the mad enhancement , Gil would probably get serious later..." thats why i said he might have a chance because we do not know what which isnt alot |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. |
ssjokg said: Most of that was mentioned in extra info about Zero's Servants I believe. Nasu likes being truough about his universe, especially about the little details. Like mentioning all the arsenal Vimana had (nuclear weapons !) even though Archer doesnt even use one of them (he just spammed GoB like an idiot). Besides, Character Material books makes Type-moon money.we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. And I tend to agree Berserkers, even though they get stronger in stats, turn into weaker warriors. Heracles is a good example of what would have probably been the stronger Heroic Spirit in the 5th War with the ability to actually use Nine Lives and his A+ Bravery skill, both of them disabled by his Mad Enhancement. Add to those two skills his God Hand (which makes it impossible for lower ranked weapons to hurt him), a higher Divinity than Gilgamesh's (A for Heracles, B for Gil), A in Battle Continuation and B in Eye of the Mind (Fake) and you can say he has the best overall skills of all of the Heroic Spirits in the 5th war... IF HE WAS NOT A BLOODY BERSERKER. God god Einzberns, why are you always so stupid. |
Leon-GunApr 29, 2012 4:08 PM
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| Finally the REAL Kirei is HERE! |
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Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Most of that was mentioned in extra info about Zero's Servants I believe. Nasu likes being true about his universe, especially about the little details. Like mentioning all the arsenal Vimana had (nuclear weapons !) evn though Archer doesnt even use one of them (he just spammed GoB like an idiot).we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. So that means everything about their abilities/NP in the typemoon.wikia is correct? thats great if it's true. |
Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Most of that was mentioned in extra info about Zero's Servants I believe. Nasu likes being truough about his universe, especially about the little details. Like mentioning all the arsenal Vimana had (nuclear weapons !) even though Archer doesnt even use one of them (he just spammed GoB like an idiot). Besides, Character Material books makes Type-moon money.we only know this If this is tue then he would have a chance against Gil if he didnt show up with Ea in his hands from the beginning. And I tend to agree Berserkers, even though they get stronger in stats, turn into weaker warriors. Heracles is a good example of what would have probably been the stronger Heroic Spirit in the 5th War with the ability to actually use Nine Lives and his A+ Bravery skill, both of them disabled by his Mad Enhancement. Add to those two skills his God Hand (which makes it impossible for lower ranked weapons to hurt him), a higher Divinity than Gilgamesh's (A for Heracles, B for Gil), A in Battle Continuation and B in Eye of the Mind (Fake) and you can say he has the best overall skills of all of the Heroic Spirits in the 5th war... IF HE WAS NOT A BLOODY BERSERKER. God god Einzberns, why are you always so stupid. in a nasu interview he said that the einzberns was scared of so they wanted a mindless dog |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
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