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| What a bunch of cowards. |
| Do they not fear retribution? |
| Vietnam war was the first thing that came to my mind, although as someone pointed out already, Cold War in general was the target of the satire. Not that this kind of thinking would be completely in the past even now, from military support and arms trade to clear alliances. |
| So they transformed war over a territory into some sort of killing-fest sport competition just to justify their needs to kill? Call me stupid, but this solution doesn't make sense at all in both reality and satire sense. Is it possible? Yes, but it would take 2 countries full of mentally deranged individuals to make it happen, which is very unlikely in BOTH fictional and today's world logically speaking. Let's go through this logic step by step using (fictional) real world example: 1. USA goes to war with Russia because they both want unoccupied land called Spain 2. They fought for many years until they're out of resources to fight each other 3. They both do not want to lose their loved ones any more, so they decided to talk/make deal 4. Common sense logic would dictate that they both ceasefire, make peace treaty and divide Spain equally to end the war 5. But the logic this anime used is very flawed. IN ADDITION to ceasefire, USA and Russia both proposed that they have a killing competition against a defenseless country (aka France) annually JUST TO VENT their feeling of competitiveness, hostility, and cruelty (in which all human possess) that they have towards each other. (strong wtf logic) The problem I have with this is why would they use the word 'WAR' instead of 'Competition'. Now I understand that USA and Russia still hate each other and ready to kill at any given moment, BUT WHY resort to killing the innocents WHILE acting like they're BEST FRIENDS? They should be ripping each other's throat apart instead of they're not mentally challenged. A more simplified example: 1. Bob kills your wife 2. You found out Bob was the culprit 3. You go and kill Bob's wife in revenge 4. You don't want to lose your son, so you call Bob and have a talk 5. Both you and Bob agreed to not kill each other's son and daughter 6. Both also agreed not to kill each other because they want their raise their children 6. As years passed, both you and Bob still can't get over the fact that their wife were killed by the other 7. Both you and Bob felt the need to vent and still hates each other 8. So, you and Bob had another heart-to-heart chat to come up with a solution 9. You and Bob then decided to have a yearly competition where you both goes to a defenseless small town of poverty and see whoever can kill the most people in a given time. The loser has to buy the winner a bottle of whiskey. 10. What the fuck kind of logic is that? TLDR; Don't get me wrong, I'm completely fine with all other messages/satires the anime was trying to convey. I just have a problem with the logic they used for this ONE part. |
LunaMay 28, 2013 2:57 AM
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| I agree that this episode was messed up.. but it truly does point out how human nature works... to find peace or to settle a difference a lot of times its taken out on the weaker party, in order to keep the peace, and that in turn causes the weaker party to take their anger out on those weaker than them... hatred gives rise to more hatred, a cycle that will never truely end. It's sad to think that people cant coexist peacefully without someone looking for a reason for conflict, but thats how human nature is. |
| I’m glad I finally found an episode of the series I really love. This episode brought up two important ideas that concern war and conflict. The first is that war must be brought to its natural conclusion for peace to emerge, and the second is that one of the greatest sins in International Relations is to be weak. For a war to truly end, someone must win. The Cold War would still be going on if the Soviet Union still existed. It is extremely fortunate for the world that the Communism practiced by the Soviet Union was an unsustainable practice and lead to their own internal collapse. However, the Cold War was never truly a war because the two sides never directly fought. It was peace, but it was a toxic. The only way for those two countries in the show to ever find true peace would require the destruction of one of the countries. “The strong do what they will, and the weak suffer what they must.” It is unfair about what happened to the indigenous people in that show, but that is how life works. Powerful countries exploit weaker countries even to this day. It is cleaner now; the age of colonization is over so now exploitation is more economical. It is a popular position to take in this world to state that war is an unnecessary evil that must be stop wherever it is found. Unfortunately, that view tends to forget that war has been one of the major sources of social change in human history. An example would be that democracy was born through war. The only people who would truly benefit the most form the end of war would be the people who are already well off right now, which I assume would be most of the people who visit this site. |
| Those people at the end... their logic was terrible. LOL |
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Joel_Shelton said: Very disturbing episode. The battle scene went nicely with the music, that scene reminded me a lot of the scene in Apocalypse Now, where Duavall uses Wagner during battle. I agree, but it's not just the music: the bridge, the trees, the eye superimposed over it at the end, it's totally Apocalypse Now! In fact I feel like it was very intentional as both this episode and Apocalypse Now are about the way humans interact with humans who are fundamentally different from themselves. Also, as for everyone who said that Kino should have intervened in the situation, this is clearly meant as a reflection of our own world and the way in which the western USA centric world interacts with the more indigenous populations of the earth, specifically the middle east in contemporary (the people at the end essentially rationalized a reason for turning to terrorism like acts.) No matter what side you find yourself on (though I'm willing to bet that if you have time to discuss anime, and obviously I count myself among that group, you will fall in with the previous group) the conflict is a closed system and far to large and elaborate for one individual to do affect in anyway. However, we did just all watch this episode of Kino's Journey and we could all see how truly horrible the world presented to us was... |
| There were so many things to take from this episode, but the biggest one for me was how humans pass on pain and hatred. When one person wrongs another, they cause that person pain which gives birth to hatred. That person then passes it on to another person who has nothing to do with the sources of their suffering and continues a vicious and nearly endless cycle. I've always loved how this series makes me ponder on and question reality, there's so much to learn from each episode. |
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| Well that was different than I first thought what would happen, that concept sure is hmm rather disturbing... It was an interesting concept but yea quite wrong and disturbing... Good episode though but I don't really know how I should feel about this... |
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Tinky-Winky said: kino should have just suggested like lazertag or a stun gun like in ender's gameskullking123 said: wow talk about being ignorant, those guys getting massacred shouldve just left DUH!!! LOL yeah. Those two countries were jst plain selfish and half-assed... attacking unarmed ppl like that... sheesh... |
"Stop whining, all I did was chop off your stupid legs." |
OriginANIME said: Those people at the end... their logic was terrible. LOL I disagree, they were constantly getting slaughtered in a so-called "war", so they needed someone that they could vent their frustration and hatred against, even if they weren't apart of that country. They messed up choosing Kino, though. One of the best episodes of the series so far for me. Her logic was correct, but disturbing. |
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| Great episode |
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| "Once you become pregnant and feel the warmth of your child..." For me, this was the strongest moment in the entire episode. The overexaggerated and flawed logic aside with which Kino no Tabi explores issues to convey messages, could anyone be absolutely sure, that in the event of a person he/she loves unconditionally and the most on this planet, would not do something morally wrong to save them? 5/5. |
| wow crazy people are crazy |
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| Those people at the end chose the wrong person to mess with. Two wrongs don't make a right. They may have been suffering a lot but that doesn't give them a right to torture an innocent person. |
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| Nice lady, using personal reasons to create this new concept of war, it's obvious that she shouldn't have decided it because she has a trauma caused by the deaths of her family on previous wars. Sure their families are safer this way, but this is too selfish. They turned war to a summer festival, where you have to take down bottles with a playing gun to win teddy bears as prize. |
fablionNov 21, 2013 4:34 PM
| After reading most of the comments, it seems to me like everyone's comments are complete understatements... The scene where the villagers were killed provoked the most powerful feelings in me. Does nobody understand the absurd senselessness that all the characters and roles have in this episode? It's obvious to the extreme that the two countries were wrong and completely insane, but what surprised me was Kino's reaction to it - she was especially emotionless and deadpan this episode. It makes me wonder - is she bottling all these feeling inside her, or does she feel it's something she faces all the time so she's used to it and it is not comparable to things she has experienced before. In that case, this episode really opens the possibilities to Kino's inside feelings and how she reacts to certain events. Hermes, as usual, is a demonic piece of metal mimicking human thoughts but really has no feelings at all. He is always the one who never reacts enough and is so chill all the time - maybe Kino is getting influenced by him? Generally, I do like Hermes but most of the time, like in this episode, he seems robotic and harsh. This would be good in most anime, because it would allow for some comedic value, but in this anime it is brutal. The villagers I also despised in this episode - sure they are victims and everything, but why are they not doing a thing about it? This vicious cycle is continued by them (travellers who managed to escape or people from the two countries who went travelling and returned could have told the two countries about the attacking villagers and further reinforced the twisted idea that war is necessary and it is fine for the strong to hurt the weak to survive) and they are just like the two countries, murdering innocent people for no reason. Also, they are obviously very unintelligent - having not thought of the idea that they could just move away or run away secretly. If their village was so special to them, then why have they not adapted to this by building underground or somehow infiltrating the two countries and dealing vengeance there? Anyway, the episode was very good in that it demonstrated the ideas I talked about such as their vicious cycle and blindness to an easier option - diplomacy could have prevented the war 200 years before. Also, it was another great addition to the shocking selection of countries to NOT move to. I may be taking this too seriously as this anime does tend to exaggerate certain themes and principles to get the point across and be memorable, it is just an anime in the end. |
| Well that was pretty fucked up ._. |
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| Ironically, the only effective way for war to truly end is to eliminate self-consciousness which includes the desire to commit crime which is war. I guess the wise man's country in the previous episode had a point but then again, that is Kino's world - a world full of contradictions. |
| "Everyone wears their own panties inside their heart" - Kousaku Hata |
| Very powerful episode, one of the best by far. It takes everything to an extreme in order to portray the absurdity of war and its consequences. |
| This is our reality. War is everywhere, fucking disgusting people. |
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| That was utterly despicable. When they mentioned the Tatatan village I felt my stomach turn. Everyone in those two countries is sick in the head. The village isn't any better at all. How about they just go to the other two countries and do something about it? Or better yet, move away so they don't get slaughtered like cattle? After this episode, it makes me think maybe it would do the world some good if some people really do get robbed of their self-consciousness, just like in episode 11. |
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness." "May those who defy their fate be granted glory." |
| LOL anti-war propaganda. Yeah they can just go and shove it up their ass. Total fucking loss of respect for this anime. How disgusting. Also I can't believe the all the idiots in this thread are just eating this shit up. Goes to show how easily influenced the weak minded are. |
ex_necrossApr 5, 2014 6:04 PM
ex_necross said: LOL anti-war propaganda. Yeah they can just go and shove it up their ass. Total fucking loss of respect for this anime. How disgusting. Also I can't believe the all the idiots in this thread are just eating this shit up. Goes to show how easily influenced the weak minded are. Wouldn't it technically be pro-war since the episode portrayed an alternative to conventional warfare? |
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| I think this is not so much an episode about War, so much as it is an episode about Hatred and Despair. They didn't hunt those people because they wanted war, it was because they were filled with such unimaginable despair and hate, that they needed an outlet. Simple games wouldn't work, no one would suffer in simple games. What they wanted was to kill, maybe even in the most cruel ways possible. One person kills the son of a man, that man kills the father of a son, that son grows up, but by the time he is the father is already dead, so he lets out his anger by killing a random person, who happens to be the son of a man. Endless cycle of hatred, because even if the one you hate is gone, it will just redirect to someone else, because as the woman says, "You will understand my point of view when you are older". It is screwed up beyond belief, but in the end it makes sense. The unbelievable love you have for someone, to be taken away replaces it all with hatred. This was a heavy as hell episode. It really shows just the lengths people are willing to go to fulfill this need for making up for the loss of a loved one. It does not just show how pitiful and weak life is, it shows how powerful it is as well. |
| That was rather morbid.. MiraiLink said: I wish Kino did step in, like she did with the combat episode. It would be impossible for a lone traveler to just step in and fix things. Aside from putting a stop to war altogether (which would certainly be denied by both governments) there are no alternatives. MiraiLink said: I also wish that Kino's world was more cohesive. It seems that each country she goes to are totally separated from each other and don't connect at all. One country is technologically advance with hover crafts, while another has just discovered flying. Our world was also like that at one point (and arguably still is). Take gunpowder, for instance: China invented it somewhere between 492 and 1044. Muslims first created it between 1240 and 1280. |
| This story provided the human natural in general. like that woman said "Human naturally possess competitiveness, hostility, and cruelty, so there needed to be a way that they could vent these feeling effectively" - a great quote. but at the same time, they don't want to see their loved ones to die, so they choose others to sacrifice. as she said, "our children can't be the sacrifices" so they choose to sacrifice the village people that has also got nothing to do with them. just to vent these feelings they possesses. even those village people do the same, they sacrifices the travelers to satisfy their desire for revenge. human are all the same, in the end. a truly masterpiece episode, one of the best! 5/5 |
| Too many people see Kino's Journey literally and thus miss the point of the show. Yes, it's awful that innocent people are getting slaughtered, but you should look further than the setting of the story. There's no right and no point for Kino to stop the way these cultures function. Don1Joker said: This story provided the human natural in general. like that woman said "Human naturally possess competitiveness, hostility, and cruelty, so there needed to be a way that they could vent these feeling effectively" - a great quote. 5/5 Indeed. It's all part of human nature and it makes us beautiful as with the world. After this episode I love how Kino said in the episode's preview that she loves humans. |
| Great episode! It really did a amazing job at displaying the brutality of human beings. 5/5 |
ex_necross said: LOL anti-war propaganda. Yeah they can just go and shove it up their ass. Total fucking loss of respect for this anime. How disgusting. Also I can't believe the all the idiots in this thread are just eating this shit up. Goes to show how easily influenced the weak minded are. It's not necessarily anti-war propaganda. The message portrayed in each episode of this series depends on how a viewer interprets it. I believe you're being a bit dubious for a series that retains a neutral point of view. There's no need to act militant and label others as weak-minded simply because they hold a different opinion from you on a controversial topic. |
MischievousGhostApr 13, 2015 11:48 AM
| That must've been terrible. MiraiLink said: As she said herself, Kino is not a God. I wish Kino did step in, like she did with the combat episode. IMO moreso than any of the implications of war in this episode, I found Kino's expression and heavy breathing after killing the villager to be most striking. Although Kino has killed people in the past (the slave traders and the mad king), she was forced to kill someone who COULD have been normal, but in turn was driven to vengeful violence as a result of the two countries' decision to vent their need for war on someone else. It is obvious that she held disdain for the curator's decision, but despite this, she ended up having to slay the victims of the "war" because she had no choice. There was no "good or evil" choice in killing him- like I said, it must have been terrible. |
| Now those were some fucked up nations, all three of them, some more than others, though. Or not. |
| While the message is clear, it represented in a very flawed and extreme way. Looking back in our real world history, I doubt that there is/was any country that went on to slaughter innocent people just for the sake of the so called peace. Often times, when countries go to war, it's either for territory control or for resources, or perhaps something more complex or more grand than that. And when big wars are fought, after the culmination, there are often times ideas that lead to a new and better system than the previous, and acts that were previously unpunishable, become punishable. Also, when said wars end, they pay off the damage they caused to the country or give them a territory back or something in those lines, but they do not choose to slaughter another innocent country. Also, when it comes to political matters and issues that are affecting the country, you cannot employ emotion for your personal belief and gain and just because you lost someone close to you, or someone you loved, whether that's your children, wife, husband, brother, mother, father and etc., to go on a rampage and war with another country. If this was the case, then the whole of Europe would be engulfed in war, because each nation had lost someone close to them in the second World War and in the past thousands of years. Same applies to the Asian countries, to the Middle-East, Balkans and Africa. This is where I find the over exaggeration of the episode flawed, because the are certain rules that prohibit things like that, even in the past and we're really not that cruel or brutal as someone wants to say that we are. And yes, there have been atrocious things done in the past, but they are very few and far in between. And, I'll say once again, after a large conflict, we advance in a new age and with a different perception and take on the world, for the better, because we don't want the same thing to happen again, thus, the process will repeat, with hopefully one day that process to end and possibly live in harmony, until then, we'll strive for improvements and bettering of the world. |
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| Damn, so far the most disturbing episode. I'll have lots to think about now. |
| No matter how many times I re-watch Kino's Journey, this episode easily remains the most unsettling and memorable. I still agree wholeheartedly with my previous response. Also what made this all the more disturbing is there was some foreshadowing during the military drills where one of the targets resembled a child. Mogami-kun said: For some reason, this quote really did hit harder than it ever has before. I think it also lends valuable insight into how easy it is to judge and condemn these nations for their decision when it's not our loved ones' lives at stake. Not to defend this system as I find it morbidly disturbing, but I really can't find any easy answer to rebuke her. Which is exactly why I love this series - there are no easy solutions."Once you become pregnant and feel the warmth of your child..." |
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Leori-Orion2199 said: It's obvious to the extreme that the two countries were wrong and completely insane, but what surprised me was Kino's reaction to it - she was especially emotionless and deadpan this episode. It makes me wonder - is she bottling all these feeling inside her, or does she feel it's something she faces all the time so she's used to it and it is not comparable to things she has experienced before. In that case, this episode really opens the possibilities to Kino's inside feelings and how she reacts to certain events. Kino has been like this since she went on a journey with Hermes, after seeing how her country (her parents) were ready to throw her out / kill her because she wasnt willing to take the operation. Kino is used to the different costums in every country she visits, it's not like she can change their minds all of a sudden, its their costums after all. Anyhow, this episode shows how war just changes everyone, the 2 women making war into a festival of some sorts. Shame for the village though, having to relive it every time, just so the other 2 countries dont have to feel the same pain, so they can stay at peace. Then having to resort to revenge to anyone that comes into their way, to fill their urge. *Also I'm not sure why they wouldnt just move away to another country perhaps, they just accept getting killed every "war". Don1Joker said: This story provided the human natural in general. like that woman said "Human naturally possess competitiveness, hostility, and cruelty, so there needed to be a way that they could vent these feeling effectively" - a great quote. but at the same time, they don't want to see their loved ones to die, so they choose others to sacrifice. as she said, "our children can't be the sacrifices" so they choose to sacrifice the village people that has also got nothing to do with them. just to vent these feelings they possesses. even those village people do the same, they sacrifices the travelers to satisfy their desire for revenge. human are all the same, in the end. Exactly my thoughts, great episode. |
PrOxAntoJun 27, 2015 10:42 AM
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| "Sometimes I feel that I may be a hopelessly stupid and narrow-minded person." --most open-minded character Ive seen.. |
~my list
| This was really disturbing, indeed. But it is nothing unusual. We live in a world like this after all. |
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| Okay of course something like this would not happen in real life, that's not the point. This show has never showed realistic portrayals, but rather always shows exaggerated situations. In this case the point is that people (the townspeople in this case) are content with human death and suffering as long as it isn't their OWN family/countrymen/etc. I see too many people complaining about plausibility. Think about those rail workers who worked for 50 years, or that "city of eternal sadness" or whatever it was called, those aren't realistic either. See a great thing you can do in anime is make these exaggerated situations to make a point. That type of thing is harder to do in live action, because seeing real people would take away from the intentional unreal-ism. That's what made me love this show so much ^_^ |
| ~ The world is not beautiful, therefore it is. |
| Kino no Tabi ep12 was disgusting...and damn great. Take at the nature of humans and their apparent need for war crossed with machiavellianism. That was hard for me to watch because it's so close to what humans act in real and I'm personally someone who advocates to give thought to how other people feel. It instantly reminded me of the "kill ISIS and their families" as a recent example. No thoughts given to what the other side might feel. It also ties back to ep1, where they tried to connect the thoughts of each other to end all harm. People need to actively try to understand each other better, that's what needs to happen. It's also the first anime I watched since Death Parade that brought in the idea that, if you harm other people for your own good, their are even more people you are going to hurt at the same time. There are always people who feel for a person that get hurt even if you don't care for said person. Damn this episode was a hit in the guts. GreatS said: None the less kino should really try to do something about the situation, not just leave... She is no god, just a traveler passing by. If her purpose was to force her ideals upon other people she wouldn't even have arrived in this country and experienced this because she would still be at her first destination. |
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| Wow. Instead of waring each other, they double-team some little village. Then the villagers try to do the same to Kino. This episode kept my attention better than some of the others. Interesting. |
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