Yosuga no Sora Episode 12 Discussion

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Nov 2019

The death theory is cool and all, but since no one who worked on the anime came out and outright addressed it, or said they're dead, it's simply that: a theory. Canonically, them surviving and leaving the village is the ending, like in the other adaptations. The wikis and summaries of the last episode confirm this (for whatever that's worth). But that's the simple and boring answer. It's much more fun to prove that they are alive through logic, analysis and evidence, as others have done. This will only be a massive breakdown, possible through the efforts of those who came before me in analysing the scenes. I simply performed the task of verifying the truthfulness of their analysis, by watching what they had pointed out. Everything they said regarding certain 'details', so to say, was in fact what I verified to be true. When saying something I believe or came up with myself, I'll clarify with the words 'personal take'. I'll be addressing everything through 'points', in a random order. Thus it begins.

The email: a few people believe it's false, given Kazuha's reaction in averting her gaze from Akira. Averting your eyes from someone in anime isn't a trope sorely used to indicate a person is lying. Saturos-001 pointed out the mere action is used in anime to give drama to a scene, in this case emphasising Kazuha's sadness in not having received any other texts. Personal take: I think it isn't just sadness, but also the fact she couldn't bear to stand Akira's look, wether it was because she was lying, or because she couldn't face the disappointment in Akira's eyes, knowing she couldn't give her the good news that the twins had sent her another text, rather than cutting all ties with them. End of the personal take.
As for the email itself, it isn't lacking a from field, as some pointed out. The field is visible in the upper left, as it says 'FROM HARUKA KASUGANO' with his name written in Japanese. It also has a number on it: just like Haruka's two emails previously received in episode 12 were number 154 and 155, this one is number 114. Of course, it being a real email does not necessarily mean it was from Haruka, as she could have had it sent by someone pretending to be Haruka, meaning it was 'false' regardless. This wouldn't be possible to prove though. Lekkain even pointed out that her faking the email doesn't necessarily mean the twins are dead. Sounds ridiculous, but I'll explain why he thinks this afterwards. Personal take: the problem I always had with the email being a fake, is regarding one particular detail that Saturos-001 pointed out too: why say "we went to live with an artisan who had connections with our parents", when Kazuha simply could have said "Our relatives took us in"; why an artisan of all people? It just so happens that said artisan was also mentioned in the manga, and in the VN too, where the email is definitely from Haruka. Quite the coincidence, if you ask me. End of the personal take.

The conspiracy theory. It goes as follows: assuming the twins did die, Akira would've found the bodies, since she is the Shrine's caretaker, and possibly the only one who ever goes to the lake. After having found them, she would have deceived everyone for their own good, with Kazuha's help, through the fake email. This theory falls apart on its own. Kudos to Lekkain for his keen thinking: as he stated, Akira was the one who asked Kazuha whether there were 'other messages since that one'. Which means she genuinely believed the text to be true and as a result, the twins to be alive. Which also proves that not only was she not a part of the conspiracy, but never found any bodies in the lake, despite being the first and probably only person who could've found anything in the first place. This means that Kazuha, when presumably faking the email, didn't really know the twins' fate. Which is why the email being a fake doesn't actually prove they died, since no bodies were recovered, and Kazuha would have faked the email just to give closure to the whole situation, in case the twins never showed up again, regardless of wether they were dead or not.

Their friends' reaction. Part personal take: Rodrigo Obelisco pointed out something very important, which seemingly goes unnoticed by many. In order for the text to be believed, wether it was a fake or not, three days minimum would have had to pass since their 'disappearance', since the email stated 'we arrived at our destination 3 days later'. Yet by the time the email was received, their friends had already stopped searching for them, since they were attending school normally, as if nothing major had happened. This is especially true for Nao Yorihime, who was also attending school like the rest, and seemed rather unfazed when Ryohei communicated the email to her, as if expecting it and knowing the twins were alive. Had they still been missing, she would have certainly had more of a 'reaction' to that message, so to say, given that minimum 3 days would have passed since the last time she saw them, and she was searching for Sora just as intensely as Haruka was. It is also important to notice that Haruka himself had notified their teacher, as was shown in one scene of episode 12, and likely pretty much everyone he came across, about Sora's disappearance. It is likely to assume that Nao had done the same. Yet by the time the text was received, no one, including Nao, was looking for them. And it has to be remembered that the twins were pretty well known in the small community, given their grandparents' reputation. For a search of them to be called off before having received the email, that is, before the 3 days, there are only 2 possibilities: they were either found dead, or alive. Given the fact that their bodies wouldn't have been found, as mentioned above (and I will go later into detail regarding this), this leaves them having been found alive, or rather, them showing up alive, as the only option. After all, it is highly unlikely that a simple text would have been enough to relieve Nao, their neighbour of all people, that the twins were alive, given that she still would've been searching for them before receiving the email, yet she wasn't. After surviving, Haruka would've notified her personally that both he and Sora were fine, which is why no one was searching for them later on, not even Nao herself, since she already knew they were alive. This is particularly evident in her dialogue with Kozue Kuranaga. She states that "for Haru the battle has just begun" and that she "cannot say for sure that Haru is wrong", lines that, apart from strongly implying she knew for a fact they were alive, wouldn't really makes sense if the twins were dead, especially the first one. What is there to fight for if the two are dead? End of the personal take.

There is much more that has to be addressed, but this is quite a bit to think about already. I will continue later.

KemboboAug 25, 2020 2:18 PM

Dec 12, 2019 5:01 PM

#437

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Nov 2019

As promised, I will address everything else.

The empty house and the bunny on the train. Everyone will remember their friends circling around the house and the scene where the famous torn bunny shows up. Fans aware of the death theory will also remember that said bunny (or a different one actually, since they couldn't be the same one) is later seen on the train with Sora. Therefore we have two bunnies: one torn, the other one on the train. This is what pretty much started the whole death theory and its strongest bit of 'evidence' (although I think it's more correct to say 'possible death flag'). Without it, there most likely wouldn't be a theory to begin with. Someone came up with the suggestion that their friends circling the house actually happened when the twins were still at the lake, that is, the following morning, not after they had received the text, as one would think. That would make sure the train scene happened after them searching the house, not before, as we are led to believe. I'm sure you already know where this is going. According to this guy, the torn up bunny and the one on the train are one and the same: after having survived, Haruka and Sora would've gone home and packed up, taking the bunny, which Sora would've sewed back together, with them, which is why it's seen intact on the train. Well, mostly intact, since there are sewing marks on it.
Personal take: I really like this theory. Sora was shown to be sewing (or trying to) a few episodes earlier, so her being able to fix the bunny would count as nice character development. Would also explain why their friends waited three days before going to check the twins' house, by having them check it the following morning rather than 3 days later (I say this assuming the twins never showed up after the lake scene). So that's that. With the bunny dilemma solved, the death theory falls apart, correct?! Not really. As much as I checked, I couldn't find the sewing marks on the bunny. Either there aren't any, or Sora is that good at sewing. The main issue though, is when the house search scene would've happened. Given that they went there as a group, they very likely went to the house after having received the message. They would've wanted to check it out, as they did in the VN and manga, after finding out they had left, not before. If they had gone there before the message, that is, when the twins were still 'missing' (assuming they were, according to the death theory), they wouldn't have gone there as a group, since their efforts would have been better spent searching for them split up, not all together. There's also the fact that the house search scene is shown after the email scene. In other words, as much as I like the theory, the two bunnies are indeed different. End of the personal take.
But is the twins being dead really the only interpretation for the bunny? Not really. A new one could have been bought. As Lekkain pointed out, while it's true that the original held sentimental value to Sora, since it reminded her of the mother, Sora was the one who tore it up in the first place, exactly because it reminded her of her mother, emphasising the bond Haru and Sora shared as siblings, which was ultimately the reason Haruka couldn't accept her as a lover, also because he felt it was a disgrace to their deceased parents. The scene where Haruka rejects Sora gives particular attention to this detail, since at one point they are both shown looking at the bunny as if it was a symbol of their problem being together. A new one, given as a gift from Haruka would either represent their new blooming love, or the fact that they had moved beyond such obstacle (the fact that they were siblings) and had accepted it. Haruka was there when Sora received the gift, and most likely knew where to get another one. That, or Sora just found one via the Internet.
Personal take: while it isn't the first thing that comes to mind, this interpretation is just as valid as the death theory. End of the personal take.
Another guy, Saturos-001 says something really curious: first off, there is no hint that the bunny being on the train signifies they are dead. He sees no connection between the two facts. Why does it being on the train mean they are dead? Second, it actually makes less sense if we consider them dead. Even in death, not only is it just a copy of the real torn up one Akira sees and therefore loses its sentimental value (assuming there was any), it's also useless to Sora since there is no need of a memento of the mom, given that she's going to meet her in heaven, where the train is (presumably) taking her. With that said, the only explanation left is that it's either an editor's mistake, or they just put it there to troll us.
Personal take: I agree that the bunny doesn't necessarily have relevance to the fact they died, it's just one of the possible interpretations fans came up with. My mind tends to automatically think it was an editor's mistake, considering that Sora was almost always drawn with it, so it is plausible and not impossible that it could have been a mistake. The scenes weren't really back to back given that in-between there was that segment where Nao spoke to Kozue. Wouldn't be the first time such mistakes happen in anime (Ash's two Pikachus, anyone? Better still, Zoro and his twin? Or did he get lost so many times he ended up behind himself?). However, that feels like the easy way out, and with no way of knowing for certain, I will consider the bunny as intentionally placed, not necessarily with the interpretation that they died though. Could be they put it there to troll us a little: between the 'make me come' sentence and the 'I wanted Haru's curry' line, I wouldn't be surprised. End of the personal take.
Regarding the house, Lekkain pointed out something very interesting which could be crucial. Everyone spots the bunny Akira sees. What hardly anyone notices is what Nao sees: the futon atop which the twins would sleep together. In an earlier scene, which was the last time anyone was seen in the house after Sora disappeared, Haru being the last one to leave, the futon is shown with both its cushions on each of its corners and the blanket is set so that it covers only half the futon. What Nao sees is a bit different. The blanket covers pretty much the whole futon and there is only one cushion, which is more centered. The only possible explanation here is that someone would've slept on said futon, for it to be placed differently. Who other than the twins could've done so, after surviving the lake?
Personal take: keen-eyed Lekkain strikes again. This could be invaluable proof for only one of the following: 1) the twins survived, went home and slept there before receiving the call from the artisan; 2) Goldilocks inhabits the Yosuga no Sora universe. My money's on Goldilocks. And in case you're thinking it could've been an editor's mistake, be reminded that so could have the bunny. Since I decided to consider that as intentional though, it's only fair that I do the same for the futon. And that's the problem: by considering both of them as intentional, the futon basically proves that the twins survived, since they would have slept there, and the bunny can assume one of its many other interpretations (not that they died in other words). If we consider both of them to be mistakes, that's worse, since, while there is no proof they set foot back home, there is no death theory to begin with either, given that the bunny would've been a mistake.
Another thing I wanted to address personally is concerning Akira. She is the one who sees the torn up bunny. It's through her eyes that we see it too. The scene then cuts to a meditative Akira as she walks back to school with her friends, thinking about what she had seen days ago. This would make me think that the bunny wasn't meant so much for us to see and connect it to the one on the train (which is why my mind thinks the bunny on thr train was a mistake), rather it was meant for Akira to see. Otherwise they wouldn't have shown her pensive face afterwards. What she was thinking though is a mystery. That she could've thought the twins were dead just by seeing Sora's thrashed room and bunny is highly unlikely, since we only made that connection ourselves by seeing the bunny on the train, something she would have never been able to do, despite all her foresight. Since no one except Kozue and Nao knew about the twincest ordeal, Akira could've maybe figured it out by that point, through her keen intuition. She could've also simply been wondering what the hell had happened. I think there's a bit more to it though. What she sees isn't just the bunny in that room, but also Sora's torn up uniform and the box that contained Sora's cross, a gift given from Haruka when they were children, during the festival. A uniform which most likely would've never been used again. A box, memento of the festival gift, which never would have been used again. It was at that point that Akira truly knew the twins were never coming back. That message Kazuha got was indeed their last.
They never bothered to tidy up their grandparents's, their family house, because they were never going to return there anyway. The empty house and Sora's room are a good example of this. So is the bunny: it being torn indicates the severed connection between the twins and their mother, therefore of their bond as siblings, since they were now lovers. They were running from everything and everyone (including their own family, since their relatives were coming to get them, another plot hole if we consider then dead) just to be together. The bunny itself being torn might also indicate Sora's status as 'a person that simply lived with Haruka as a doll' being terminated. But that last part was just my own interpretation. Could also that they added the bunny on the train on purpose, just to confuse us a little, make things vaguer. After all, the anime's goal was to promote the Visual Novel, so making the ending a bit more vague, not ambiguous though, would've prompted confused or curious viewers (such as myself) to see what fate truly awaited the twins, by having us check the VN. It definitely worked in my case. End of the personal take.

There is still something left that I need to address, but this is quite enough for now. I'll continue this later. Next up is 'why even if we assume them to be dead, no bodies would have been found'.

Dec 13, 2019 4:19 PM

#438

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Nov 2019

Now I shall address why, even if we do assume the twins to be dead, no one would have found their bodies, meaning they would still be missing, their fate never to be known by any of the villagers. Starting with their friends.

Akira Amatsume: it's already been established that she believed the text to be true, therefore the twins to be alive. Logically speaking, this means she wouldn't have found them dead, despite practically living there. This brings up the problem that whoever would have found the bodies would've had to do so sneaking past her and making sure she found nothing about it.

Kozue Kuranaga: she is out of the question. "Do you really think they can be happy together?" is not a question you ask regarding someone who's dead. While she is different than her VN and Manga counterparts in dealing with the twincest ordeal, she no doubt would've been devastated in finding out they were dead, and would've most likely felt responsible for what happened. In the death theory, the whole idea of their friends hiding the twins' death is so that Kozue wouldn't find out and feel guilty. The Kozue we see still thinks the twins are alive and in the wrong by the end of the show. There's also the issue that she wasn't there when Akira's 'lake of Rebirth' speech was given. The whole reason Haruka found Sora was thanks to that speech, as shown in his flashback before heading to the lake. The others who were present were Sora, Nao and Ryohei.

Kazuha Migiwa: partially the same reason as Kozue, she wasn't there during the lake speech and would've never figured out where Sora disappeared to, like Haruka did. And this is very important, since according to the 'death theory', she is aware that the twins are dead, reason why she would've faked the email.

Ryohei Nakazato: his sentence to Akira "Just the two of them, living overseas, huh?" seems to suggest he also would've been unaware. Besides, no offence to him, but it's Ryohei, can you actually imagine him figuring out not only Sora's whereabouts, but also how to hide the bodies from Akira?

Nao Yorihime: she is the more interesting case. She heard the speech and was aware of the twincest ordeal, so she could've connected the dots like Haruka did and headed to the lake from there. She wouldn't have necessarily found them dead though, as the omake ending spoils her saving them from drowning, but we'll get to that later. The problem with Nao finding them is that she would've had to beat Akira to it. Nao's last words to Haruka were 'I'll try other places, like Ryohei's house'. That detour would've delayed her from getting there sooner. Akira on the other hand was alerted to someone's presence the moment Haruka touched her gate. Since it has already been proven that Akira would've been completely unaware of their death, in order for Nao to find any corpses without Akira noticing, she would have had to elude her, find the bodies, hide them so that Akira wouldn't find them, backtrack to Kazuha (since cellphones weren't really a thing in that village, only Kazuha and the twins possessed them), ask for her help in disposing of the corpses and have her fake the message. Does this seem plausible to you? She would've then had to put on an act with Kozue. Would she really be able to say something like "That's why I believe they can be happy together" while smiling, yet knowing they are dead? She would've been the most devastated out of all of them. Knowing Nao's character, kind to a fault, to the point where she'd wish the guy who cheated on her with his sister a happy life, I doubt she would've given Kazuha the burden of tricking her friends either. She more likely would've just kept it hidden from everyone, Kazuha included, and dealt with the matter herself. Again, the only one who could've found them was Akira. She lived there, knew those grounds better than anyone, and if they had been searching for them, the shrine's area would've been hers to patrol. Yet she never found anything.

Any random villager: definitely not. Apart from the 'eluding Akira' problem, if they had found out the twins died, the whole village would've known about. Rumours spread quickly, especially in a small town All of the twins' friends would know of their death, yet none of them did. The only way the death theory can not fall apart completely is, ironically, if no bodies were found in the first place. Meaning Kazuha would've indeed faked the email without actually knowing what had happened to them, as Lekkain had intelligently predicted. A lot of supporters of the death theory mention Kazuha being able to cover up their deaths through her wealth. Problem is, how do you cover up something you don't even know about? How is one text enough to convince everyone, including their neighbour, Nao, that was looking for them, that they are alive and well, especially if said text arrived 3 days after the twins' 'disappearance'? How exactly would their deaths had legally been taken care of if nobody knew of said deaths in the first place? Just more plot holes the death theory fails to address.

I will continue later on.

Dec 14, 2019 6:09 PM

#439

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Nov 2019

Almost there, bear with me a little more.

The train scene. Out of a dark tunnel, into the deep blue sky...a beautiful image of them going to the afterlife, right? Maybe not so much.
Many think this scene is a metaphor of them reaching the afterlife, due to the bunny, the fact that you can only see clouds, and that this mimics the start of the anime too perfectly. Bunny aside, since we've already addressed it, Saturos-001 points out that us seeing only clouds is due to camera angling, nothing more. Wouldn't be the first time it happens in anime. When the shot is taken from above, a roadbed is visible, so the train isn't exactly floating to heaven. He doubts the rail tracks to heaven would even have tunnels. Are there mountains in the afterlife too? Lekkain adds to this the fact they are carrying a brown suitcase with them, something they wouldn't really need in the afterlife, would they? Where would they have gotten it anyway? What would have they been able to put in it if they were dead? Did it just materialize there for no reason? Saturos-001 also wonders where they got the Pochi box. A holy vending machine, perhaps? Personal take: regarding the camera angling issue...Saturos is right, this wouldn't be the first time in anime only clouds are visible. In this anime no less, I might add. A few scenes of its opening come to mind: the first one where Sora is staring out of the Window, all that can be seen are clouds. The real kicker though? That beautiful scene were Haruka is peddling with Sora behind him. What's in the background? Only clouds and the sky! The other example, perhaps more fittingly, concerns the very first scene of the anime. When the train heading to the Okukozome gets out of the tunnel, all you can see around it are clouds and the sky, as if it was drifting through them. Yet I'm pretty sure they weren't dead while heading to the village, wouldn't you agree? And trust me, there are other examples that I'd rather not mention now, we've been here long enough. This would make you think the background consisting of only clouds isn't so much a symbolic choice in the case of the train scene, rather a stylistic one. The final scene of the VN gives quite an important meaning to the sky, as in, no matter how far from each other they may be, Haru and Sora will always be connected by that same sky (hence the title 'Yosuga no Sora' 'Sky of Connection'). The name of the last episode, as Saturos-001 reminds us, is simply a play on their names (Haruka na Sora), like the name of all the other episodes. Perhaps a reference to the sequel fan disk that continued where the VN left off? The 'faraway sky' in this case is that of the country where their parents' acquaintance lives. The same name is also used for the last chapter of the manga, where they also survive. Another thing I'd like to personally add is that in the train scene, both Haru and Sora are casting shadows, in other words their bodies block the light's rays, proof that they still have their bodies and aren't just wondering souls on a train. Curiously, they are also wearing different clothes to those of the lake scene. How would have they changed clothes if they were dead? The clothes are also different to those of the initial train scene at the beginning of the anime. As are the train itself, and the luggage they are carrying. So the final train scene doesn't exactly copy the first one, rather it functions as a BookEnd, as Saturos-001 pointed out. Occasionally used, they are mirroring final scenes of usually the first ones, which highlight important changes. In this case, the twins arrived at Okukozome as siblings, but left it as lovers. Coincidentally, they just happen to be wearing the exact same clothes and carrying the same brown suitcase with which they left the village in the Visual Novel, where they also survive the lake. What are the odds, I wonder?
All in all, a pretty standard-looking train scene, which doesn't present any surreal elements to it.

The fact that they were out of money. I'll address this briefly: while it's true that they could have had help from their relatives, or had enough money to afford a few busses or trains, in both the VN and manga, their parents' acquaintance, the artisan, paid the fees for the trip. The artisan in the anime would have done the same, especially for the plane ticket.

People think that the strongest bit of evidence of them being alive is the text. I strongly disagree however, and what comes next is stronger than anything read so far in proving they are alive. Save the best for last, right? Until next time though.

Dec 15, 2019 5:10 PM

#440

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Nov 2019

Time to end this.

The lake scene. This is by far the strongest proof that they are alive. Perhaps the only thing worth calling proof. The moment we see them lying on those stairs defines the twins Haruka and Sora as still being alive. Few possibilities have been given to justify the death theory: that it was either their afterlife, or a dying hallucination, or that they were reborn in another world/reality/you name it. Some, noticing that it couldn't be either of these, since they were proven not to be the case, even tried to call it a recreated reality just to keep the death theory intact. One step at a time though.
How do you prove something is a dying hallucination? More importantly, how do you prove it isn't? Saturos-001 was apparently able to answer the second question. There were certain details in that scene that wouldn't be possible for a hallucination. For starters, Sora wouldn't have been able to notice Haruka's bruise on his left knee, the one he got moments earlier when falling off his bike, or his barely visible belt. Yet both these elements are present on Haruka when the two are confessing their love to one another. It couldn't have been Sora hallucinating. Was it Haruka then? Not even. The steps they were lying on were covered by the forest and could not be seen from were Haruka entered the lake. He wouldn't have been able to hallucinate being on them in the first place. Personal take: there's also another issue that came to my mind and that Saturos-001 addressed too. It being a hallucination would mean one of the twins was a fake, projected by the mind of the other. In other words, the confession wouldn't be worth anything. Coincidentally however, we see both of them on the train together, and we know they solved all the issues between them. Which is, what do you know, the same thing that happened during the lake scene. In other words, the lake scene was a moment shared between the two of them, not exclusive to only one of them, all the more reason why it couldn't be a dying hallucination. End of the personal take.
Then it had to be their afterlife! Easy to prove it wasn't. Lekkain once again studies the scene carefully. Not only are they wearing the same clothes, Haruka also still has that bruise mentioned before. Most importantly though, they are both wet (Haruka even says this to Sora), a reminder that they were in the lake not too long ago. The devs even went the extra mile and drew water drops on their faces. It doesn't get more obvious than that. Oh wait, it actually does... the real proof that they did get out of there though, as if them being wet wasn't enough?
The camera shot taken from above. It shows a trail of water leading from the direction of the lake's surface to where the twins are lying. Once you see it, it's pretty obvious what it is. The water marks of someone being dragged, that someone being Haruka. People still struggle to believe them getting out of the lake was a possibility. As Saturos-001 said however, it isn't important HOW they survived, fact is they DID survive. And the trail of water proves this. As for how, much has been speculated. Maybe Sora saved them both as she did in both the VN and Manga. Nowhere does the anime prove she cannot swim. In fact Lekkain was able to point out that before Haruka dove towards her, she was floating just fine. It's when he started hindering her that they both started sinking. Once he was done wailing, Sora would've been able to save him (add in adrenaline rush in a desperate situation), like she did in both other adaptations. She hadn't passed out, given that her eyes were still half-open. She even tilted her head slightly when looking at Haruka while they were sinking. Personal take: I'd like to add that she was lying on top of Haruka, besides him to his left, a possible hint that she could've been the one to drag him. End of the personal take. Another possibility is that Akira could've saved them. She had been alerted to someone's presence and in episode 1 she was able to lift 4 grocery bags with ease. Many people bet their money on Nao. You don't get to be swimming team captain for nothing. That, and the omake ending spoils it. Putting how they survived aside though, the water trail proves it wasn't their afterlife. For the same reason they couldn't have been reborn. And the recreated reality bit is just as bad as suggesting that Akira was remembering badly and saw a torn bunny where there wasn't one. It's basically grasping at straws. Maybe that was a recreated reality in her mind? As was the whole arc. Personal take: why fool them with a recreated reality? And who would've fooled them? Why go through all the details of trail of water, wet twins...even going as far as adding small droplets of water on their hair and face? This scene is truly definitive proof that they survived the lake. End of personal take.
Fans also noted that Sora never answered Haruka's question on wether they were alive are dead. Saturos-001 proves his cunning as a philosophy teacher once again. Haruka's was never a question to begin with. He did not ask 'Are we alive/dead?'. He stated 'We're alive, right?", as if to reassure her that they were indeed alive. The tone with which he said it, the way he smiled as he said it, the way Sora silently smiled back at him, as if she was happy to have him reassuring her of such a thing. It all leads to the sentence being more of a reassurance than a question. Personal take: I can confirm that in the VN this form of speech (question, right?) was used occasionally, with the answer not necessarily being given, because it was a granted one. Example: "As long as it's edible, right?" This sentence uttered by Ryohei was never answered, mainly because the answer is in of itself inside Ryohei's presumed question. The lake scene itself is also way too similar to that of the VN. In the VN, they almost drown, are saved, they confess their love, they have sex. In the anime, the scene is almost the exact same, minus the runtime and shorter dialogue due to episode time constraints, and, unlike in the VN, the sex scene isn't explicitly show (I'm glad they cut it out), but is outright hinted to have happened when they are hugging each other half naked (another riminder they still have their bodies). End of the personal take.

As a finale, I'll address the plot holes left by either take on the ending.

Plot holes of them living:
-the bunny
and that's it. No, seriously, just a bunny. And only if we consider it's most popular interpretation, that it is related to their death, since other interpretations were given. You know that personally I think it was an editor's mistake for the reasons I mentioned before, but for fairness I won't consider it as such, since it would pretty much take down the whole death theory (and what fun would that be?)
The fact that only Haru and Sora are ever seen together after the lake scene, without having interacted with anyone, might have been a plot hole hadn't it been for the fact that the same happened in the VN: not showing them interact with anyone doesn't mean they did not. In fact, their friends' reactions would suggest otherwise.

Plot holes left if we consider them dead:

-the lake scene:if it wasn't legit then what was it? Afterlife, Rebirth, hallucination and recreated reality are out of the picture. What else could it be if not them surviving?

-who found the bodies: definitely not Akira, I can tell you that much. And she was perhaps the only who could've done so. Then who did? Were there maybe no bodies to find in the first place?

-Nao's reactions and dialogue: they speak for themselves, it is strongly hinted through her dialogue that she knows them to be alive. 'The fight for Haru has just begun'. Except it hasn't, cuz he's dead?

-the futon in the house: did the blanket and cushions magically move or did someone just decide to sleep there after almost dying? You cannot prove Goldilocks inhabits this universe.

-the fact that no one was searching for them before the text: what, did they just give up and think 'ah, they're probably fine'? Especially true in Nao's case.

-the text being not only real and legitimately a normal email, but it also being detailed and similar to that of the VN: both texts (or all 3 if we consider the manga) did mention an acquaintance of their parents: the artisan. Quite the coincidence, wouldn't you agree?

-the train scene: between the fact they still have physical bodies, have changed clothes, are eating Pochi and even have a suitcase with them, I don't know what's worse. Probably the suitcase, since they wouldn't need it if they were going to heaven. Oh, and the clothes and suitcase are the same of when they left the town (alive), in the VN. What are the odds?!

-Haruka's dialogue: a bit of a nitpick, but what would the point of his speech to Sora be. 'I don't care what others think', 'let's search for a path together'. Except it doesn't matter anymore, you're dead?
-Sora's one line: 'I thought I had lost you!' Implying like in the other adaptations, that despite having saved him, she thought she might have been too late already.

-The twin's relatives: they were coming to get them, as Haruka had confirmed to them before Sora disappeared. What would've happened to them had the twins actually died.

Final verdict: Haru and Sora are alive.

The end. Case closed. Sorry, I just felt like saying that.

Overall, a straightforward ending. And an expected one at that. I know I could've just jumped straight to the lake scene explanation and solved everything there, since it basically proves them to be alive, but where would've the fun in that be? The long road is sometimes the funnest one...kudos again to Lekkain and Saturos-001 for finding all the proof. Without them, a general debunking of the theory would've been impossible.

Jan 2, 2020 2:42 PM

#441

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Aug 2018

3272

Well, I'm glad that Kozue and Nao didn't decide to stay in their way, but rather left for Sora and Haru to choose by themselves, what to do..
Haru is a bit broken, though.. Well, some could say that Sora is broken in a way, but I wouldn't really agree.. She indeed looks happy.. Haru is very anxious about things, though..
Damn, Haru really can turn into abusive man.. He's like Makoto from School Days, in the way, in his worry.. He can do pretty much everything stressed in this situation, and it with more possibility will be hurting others, hurting Sora..
But well.. It's better, if they figure out things now, I guess.. Than later.. If it indeed would be figuring out, not some shit.. It can go either way, really.. Producers will choose some kind of development, but really it could have gone really any any way, maybe it even did in VN, with multiple endings..
Wait.. Are we going for double suicide or something?..
I like that Nao is understanding in the end..
It was a good anime.. Both depressing and funny.. I feel that I started to care more for all characters, and satisfied that all had their story, made me worried about them.. I feel fulfilled after this anime, it's quite nice that I watched it, and I think that I'll still think about characters for some time, and will even read about them some more, maybe.. Overall, a nice watch.. ;p
Also, I have some feelings that they're either dead, or something.. Just too many things.. And it seems that not only I have this feeling.. I wouldn't really say that their wetness or anything really shows anything that they're alive, they really can just imagine whatever in afterlife.. Maybe they wanted to imagine at first that they're still alive, that their love helped them get through.. And only then after some time accepted their death.. Or maybe they didn't at all, and created scenario as if they just decided to travel away from everyone, this way running from painful thought that others found them dead.. Maybe something else.. But ending indeed feels very strange.. I might want to read and think more about it.. Maybe I personally will think that they actually died.. And created a reality, where they ran away, in their afterdeath.. But reality of their death is leaking - in form of 2 bunnies, and sky is really low in the windows of train.. And other scenes are a bit changed from reality.. Like friends can gather after their death.. But some words they say are truth, how it really is, and some are distorted by their own afterlife reality.. That's what I personally will think.. In the end we see distorted reality of afterlife, which both still observes reality of alive, and creates something for the dead ones sake.. That's not the first time anime is playing with fantasies.. Until at least they're able to accept reality as it is.. Or do things they didn't have time to do.. Spend time together as lovers.. Or something like that.. That's how I see it..

Jan 4, 2020 4:43 AM

#442

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Aug 2018

3272

That's not what I said, lol.. ;p Perhaps you tried quoting someone else.. ;p

Jan 4, 2020 5:18 AM

#443

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Jan 2020

Gendolfas said:
That's not what I said, lol.. ;p Perhaps you tried quoting someone else.. ;p

You right, I just realise I fuck up. I want quote comment above you. Quote you instead, because comment right below. Mistake. This is embarrassing. Sorry, I now delete.

Jan 4, 2020 5:23 AM

#444

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Jan 2020

Kembobo said:
Time to end this.

The lake scene. This is by far the strongest proof that they are alive. Perhaps the only thing worth calling proof. The moment we see them lying on those stairs defines the twins Haruka and Sora as still being alive. Few possibilities have been given to justify the death theory: that it was either their afterlife, or a dying hallucination, or that they were reborn in another world/reality/you name it. Some, noticing that it couldn't be either of these, since they were proven not to be the case, even tried to call it a recreated reality just to keep the death theory intact. One step at a time though.
How do you prove something is a dying hallucination? More importantly, how do you prove it isn't? Saturos-001 was apparently able to answer the second question. There were certain details in that scene that wouldn't be possible for a hallucination. For starters, Sora wouldn't have been able to notice Haruka's bruise on his left knee, the one he got moments earlier when falling off his bike, or his barely visible belt. Yet both these elements are present on Haruka when the two are confessing their love to one another. It couldn't have been Sora hallucinating. Was it Haruka then? Not even. The steps they were lying on were covered by the forest and could not be seen from were Haruka entered the lake. He wouldn't have been able to hallucinate being on them in the first place. Personal take: there's also another issue that came to my mind and that Saturos-001 addressed too. It being a hallucination would mean one of the twins was a fake, projected by the mind of the other. In other words, the confession wouldn't be worth anything. Coincidentally however, we see both of them on the train together, and we know they solved all the issues between them. Which is, what do you know, the same thing that happened during the lake scene. In other words, the lake scene was a moment shared between the two of them, not exclusive to only one of them, all the more reason why it couldn't be a dying hallucination. End of the personal take.
Then it had to be their afterlife! Easy to prove it wasn't. Lekkain once again studies the scene carefully. Not only are they wearing the same clothes, Haruka also still has that bruise mentioned before. Most importantly though, they are both wet (Haruka even says this to Sora), a reminder that they were in the lake not too long ago. The devs even went the extra mile and drew water drops on their faces. It doesn't get more obvious than that. Oh wait, it actually does... the real proof that they did get out of there though, as if them being wet wasn't enough?
The camera shot taken from above. It shows a trail of water leading from the direction of the lake's surface to where the twins are lying. Once you see it, it's pretty obvious what it is. The water marks of someone being dragged, that someone being Haruka. People still struggle to believe them getting out of the lake was a possibility. As Saturos-001 said however, it isn't important HOW they survived, fact is they DID survive. And the trail of water proves this. As for how, much has been speculated. Maybe Sora saved them both as she did in both the VN and Manga. Nowhere does the anime prove she cannot swim. In fact Lekkain was able to point out that before Haruka dove towards her, she was floating just fine. It's when he started hindering her that they both started sinking. Once he was done wailing, Sora would've been able to save him (add in adrenaline rush in a desperate situation), like she did in both other adaptations. She hadn't passed out, given that her eyes were still half-open. She even tilted her head slightly when looking at Haruka while they were sinking. Personal take: I'd like to add that she was lying on top of Haruka, besides him to his left, a possible hint that she could've been the one to drag him. End of the personal take. Another possibility is that Akira could've saved them. She had been alerted to someone's presence and in episode 1 she was able to lift 4 grocery bags with ease. Many people bet their money on Nao. You don't get to be swimming team captain for nothing. That, and the omake ending spoils it. Putting how they survived aside though, the water trail proves it wasn't their afterlife. For the same reason they couldn't have been reborn. And the recreated reality bit is just as bad as suggesting that Akira was remembering badly and saw a torn bunny where there wasn't one. It's basically grasping at straws. Maybe that was a recreated reality in her mind? As was the whole arc. Personal take: why fool them with a recreated reality? And who would've fooled them? Why go through all the details of trail of water, wet twins...even going as far as adding small droplets of water on their hair and face? This scene is truly definitive proof that they survived the lake. End of personal take.
Fans also noted that Sora never answered Haruka's question on wether they were alive are dead. Saturos-001 proves his cunning as a philosophy teacher once again. Haruka's was never a question to begin with. He did not ask 'Are we alive/dead?'. He stated 'We're alive, right?", as if to reassure her that they were indeed alive. The tone with which he said it, the way he smiled as he said it, the way Sora silently smiled back at him, as if she was happy to have him reassuring her of such a thing. It all leads to the sentence being more of a reassurance than a question. Personal take: I can confirm that in the VN this form of speech (question, right?) was used occasionally, with the answer not necessarily being given, because it was a granted one. Example: "As long as it's edible, right?" This sentence uttered by Ryohei was never answered, mainly because the answer is in of itself inside Ryohei's presumed question. The lake scene itself is also way too similar to that of the VN. In the VN, they almost drown, are saved, they confess their love, they have sex. In the anime, the scene is almost the exact same, minus the runtime and shorter dialogue due to episode time constraints, and, unlike in the VN, the sex scene isn't explicitly show (I'm glad they cut it out), but is outright hinted to have happened when they are hugging each other half naked (another riminder they still have their bodies). End of the personal take.

As a finale, I'll address the plot holes left by either take on the ending.

Plot holes of them living:
-the bunny
and that's it. No, seriously, just a bunny. And only if we consider it's most popular interpretation, that it is related to their death, since other interpretations were given. You know that personally I think it was an editor's mistake for the reasons I mentioned before, but for fairness I won't consider it as such, since it would pretty much take down the whole death theory (and what fun would that be?)
The fact that only Haru and Sora are ever seen together after the lake scene, without having interacted with anyone, might have been a plot hole hadn't it been for the fact that the same happened in the VN: not showing them interact with anyone doesn't mean they did not. In fact, their friends' reactions would suggest otherwise.

Plot holes left if we consider them dead:

-the lake scene:if it wasn't legit then what was it? Afterlife, Rebirth, hallucination and recreated reality are out of the picture. What else could it be if not them surviving?

-who found the bodies: definitely not Akira, I can tell you that much. And she was perhaps the only who could've done so. Then who did? Were there maybe no bodies to find in the first place?

-Nao's reactions and dialogue: they speak for themselves, it is strongly hinted through her dialogue that she knows them to be alive. 'The fight for Haru has just begun'. Except it hasn't, cuz he's dead?

-the futon in the house: did the blanket and cushions magically move or did someone just decide to sleep there after almost dying? You cannot prove Goldilocks inhabits this universe.

-the fact that no one was searching for them before the text: what, did they just give up and think 'ah, they're probably fine'? Especially true in Nao's case.

-the text being not only real and legitimately a normal email, but it also being detailed and similar to that of the VN: both texts (or all 3 if we consider the manga) did mention an acquaintance of their parents: the artisan. Quite the coincidence, wouldn't you agree?

-the train scene: between the fact they still have physical bodies, have changed clothes, are eating Pochi and even have a suitcase with them, I don't know what's worse. Probably the suitcase, since they wouldn't need it if they were going to heaven. Oh, and the clothes and suitcase are the same of when they left the town (alive), in the VN. What are the odds?!

-Haruka's dialogue: a bit of a nitpick, but what would the point of his speech to Sora be. 'I don't care what others think', 'let's search for a path together'. Except it doesn't matter anymore, you're dead?
-Sora's one line: 'I thought I had lost you!' Implying like in the other adaptations, that despite having saved him, she thought she might have been too late already.

-The twin's relatives: they were coming to get them, as Haruka had confirmed to them before Sora disappeared. What would've happened to them had the twins actually died.

Final verdict: Haru and Sora are alive.

The end. Case closed. Sorry, I just felt like saying that.

Overall, a straightforward ending. And an expected one at that. I know I could've just jumped straight to the lake scene explanation and solved everything there, since it basically proves them to be alive, but where would've the fun in that be? The long road is sometimes the funnest one...kudos again to Lekkain and Saturos-001 for finding all the proof. Without them, a general debunking of the theory would've been impossible.

This time I get right guy, I'm sure. People talk on you everywhere and say you break death theory on this anime and I search everywhere to try find you. I finally find you. I not understand if them dead or alive so I look but not happy with what I find. Nothing precise, speculation only. Either "bunny proves them dead" or "text proves them alive". That it. Nothing precise. You make me happy with what I find. You give best explanation on ending. Very long 5 comments but precise, you prove Haru and Sora are alive, you only one take everything into consideration, including VN. I only join Mal to thank you directly. Thank you for proving they survive, I finally stop looking. Sorry, my English is very terrible. I understand English very well, but write and speak like shit. Thank you again.

Jan 4, 2020 5:31 AM

#445

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Jan 2020

Gendolfas said:
That's not what I said, lol.. ;p Perhaps you tried quoting someone else.. ;p

Off topic, but I curious and check your profile. You give this anime 10. This anime treated like shit most time. Good that someone show love and appreciate this anime! Okay, I'm done.

Jan 4, 2020 5:45 AM

#446

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Aug 2018

3272

Well, it's alright, it happens, especially at new places.. ;p
Well, I just have no problems myself with this anime.. Really, I imagine, most incest shows get hate just because they have incest.. Fair enough, people can dislike, what they wanna.. But why really watch it in first place, though, I just ignore genres I don't personally like.. ;p But, eh, whatever, I guess, some people don't really recognize fast that it's about incest, especially if it's not their genre..
I myself am content with this anime.. All girls had their arcs, only one didn't, but in 12 episodes anime it's understandable.. Anime had both dramatic and wholesome moments, I also won't say that I got bored by ecchi or sex scenes, they were sexy enough.. ;p Choice of girls is pretty nice as well, I didn't find anyone to be annoying or anything.. Maybe there could be more of everything, but they managed to put some of everything, and it's just that anime is short.. ;p In the end, I liked the girls, and cared the more about them, the more show went on.. So I liked characters in this anime, and character usually are the most important part of anime for me personally.. ;p

Jan 4, 2020 2:35 PM

#447

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Jan 2020

Gendolfas said:
Well, it's alright, it happens, especially at new places.. ;p
Well, I just have no problems myself with this anime.. Really, I imagine, most incest shows get hate just because they have incest.. Fair enough, people can dislike, what they wanna.. But why really watch it in first place, though, I just ignore genres I don't personally like.. ;p But, eh, whatever, I guess, some people don't really recognize fast that it's about incest, especially if it's not their genre..
I myself am content with this anime.. All girls had their arcs, only one didn't, but in 12 episodes anime it's understandable.. Anime had both dramatic and wholesome moments, I also won't say that I got bored by ecchi or sex scenes, they were sexy enough.. ;p Choice of girls is pretty nice as well, I didn't find anyone to be annoying or anything.. Maybe there could be more of everything, but they managed to put some of everything, and it's just that anime is short.. ;p In the end, I liked the girls, and cared the more about them, the more show went on.. So I liked characters in this anime, and character usually are the most important part of anime for me personally.. ;p

That true, some people watch what they not like and then just hate and mock shows.
I also read original VN of this Anime. Anime do something better, like art and music and ecchi and sex, but is too fast compared to VN, VN give more character development, but this understandable because anime only have 12 episodes, you right. Characters seem boring first, but they reveal very good in their arc. Girl who not have arc (Kozue the class rep?) have arc in sequel of VN, "Haruka no Sora".
Also red hair shop owner have arc and there also Sora part 2 (sequel to her arc in original VN).
This anime adapt only arcs from original VN, not sequel, so no Kozue route is sad but understandable.

Jan 4, 2020 10:12 PM

#448

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Aug 2018

3272

Yeah, I was talking about Kozue.. Well, she has route in VN sequel.. Better than nothing, I guess.. I'll think if I'll read VN or sequel, but maybe not now, too much other stuff to watch for now really.. ;p Still, girls are nice.. ;p

Jan 6, 2020 4:19 PM

#449

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Jan 2020

Gendolfas said:
Yeah, I was talking about Kozue.. Well, she has route in VN sequel.. Better than nothing, I guess.. I'll think if I'll read VN or sequel, but maybe not now, too much other stuff to watch for now really.. ;p Still, girls are nice.. ;p

Ya ya, girls very nice! VN easy to find. Sequel almost impossible to find. It still in Japanese, no translate! But you right, I also other stuff to watch. Next: Goblin Slayer! See you round, maybe. Goodbye!

Jan 6, 2020 10:36 PM

#450