Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
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Md_Kanj said: Shadowsnake777 said: I know this was 6 hours ago buuut I can't resist.... Think man! He lives in modern Japan. That there you should know that violence AND death are not common... Secondly the fact that he's a neet shows that he doesn't really have much social life and relies on his parents.. The worse he probably could have had in that past was a family member dying or being bullied...That's nothing in comparison to being killed several times, watching those you care about dying and no matter how hard you try there are other ways they die AND he get's no recognition for his actions OR help for that fact (He get's allies but he has to work for those and if he dies they all reset)...Instead he's treated poorly because they're oblivious to what he's been trying to do... Agree. That that they told us that he's NEET is enough to predict what his past would have been and I don't remember that we got much backstory on okabe either and he was one of the best characters in all anime for me. the events in the last couple episodes are the character development of Subaru. No, it isn't. Example: Both Okabe from Stens;Gate and Satou from Welcome to the NHK are NEETS but have vastly different personalities. Him being a NEET doesn't tell us anything about him really. |
Red_Ranger_Wien said: Md_Kanj said: Agree. That that they told us that he's NEET is enough to predict what his past would have been and I don't remember that we got much backstory on okabe either and he was one of the best characters in all anime for me. the events in the last couple episodes are the character development of Subaru. No, it isn't. Example: Both Okabe from Stens;Gate and Satou from Welcome to the NHK are NEETS but have vastly different personalities. Him being a NEET doesn't tell us anything about him really. Okabe isn't a NEET, he goes to University with Daru, they first meet Kurisu at a university lecture about Time travel. |
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Jakez123 said: Red_Ranger_Wien said: No, it isn't. Example: Both Okabe from Stens;Gate and Satou from Welcome to the NHK are NEETS but have vastly different personalities. Him being a NEET doesn't tell us anything about him really. Okabe isn't a NEET, he goes to University with Daru, they first meet Kurisu at a university lecture about Time travel. Fine, replace Okabe with most of the main characters from Kamisama no Memochou or even No Game No Life (as much as I don't like it). Vastly different NEETS with very different backstories. |
| This is getting tedious. So, the short version. Jakez123 said: Not sure how many times I've said it, but if even after all the things I;ve said, using examples from the show to back up my point, and you still want to say "he should've been calm" as you defence, I don't think we'll see eye to eye. You give no examples, you give empty assertions. For some absurd reason, you stubbornly insist that Subary can rage and rant all he wants, it doesn't matter anyway, because if he would behave like a civilized person, it would not change the outcome anyway. Which we simply don't know, but you claim with the irrefutable certainty of a true zealot :) Example: You claim that if he'd try to talk reasonably with Emilia, she wouldn't listen anyway. Which is completely unconvincing to me, because 1) she listens closely to him 2) she shows no signs of scepticism or distrust 3) she doesn't reject him even when he behaves like a total nutjob instead Likewise, if you insist on believing that it doesn't matter if he behaves like a nutjob in the negotiations with other parties that he will likely have to deal with in the future, too - be my guest. It is mind-bogglingly absurd, but whatever tickles your pickle. I am explaining why Subaru is getting on my nerves - bigtime, and constantly - and if apologets like you want to absolve him from everything, be my guest. Just don't insult my intelligence by asserting that everyone would react like Subaru, and that his perpetual uncontrolled outbursts have no impact on the storyline. |
Mentar said: This is getting tedious. So, the short version. Jakez123 said: Not sure how many times I've said it, but if even after all the things I;ve said, using examples from the show to back up my point, and you still want to say "he should've been calm" as you defence, I don't think we'll see eye to eye. You give no examples, you give empty assertions. For some absurd reason, you stubbornly insist that Subary can rage and rant all he wants, it doesn't matter anyway, because if he would behave like a civilized person, it would not change the outcome anyway. Which we simply don't know, but you claim with the irrefutable certainty of a true zealot :) Example: You claim that if he'd try to talk reasonably with Emilia, she wouldn't listen anyway. Which is completely unconvincing to me, because 1) she listens closely to him 2) she shows no signs of scepticism or distrust 3) she doesn't reject him even when he behaves like a total nutjob instead Likewise, if you insist on believing that it doesn't matter if he behaves like a nutjob in the negotiations with other parties that he will likely have to deal with in the future, too - be my guest. It is mind-bogglingly absurd, but whatever tickles your pickle. I am explaining why Subaru is getting on my nerves - bigtime, and constantly - and if apologets like you want to absolve him from everything, be my guest. Just don't insult my intelligence by asserting that everyone would react like Subaru, and that his perpetual uncontrolled outbursts have no impact on the storyline. I can tell you didn't understand my post. You still insist that I believe Emilia wouldn't listen to Subaru, again, I specifically said "Listening does not mean believing". She will LISTEN to Subaru regardless, but she won't BELIEVE him, those 2 are different things. Never did I once say Subaru can rage all he wants, yes it makes him look bad, but when you look at it factually, it's irrelevant when it comes to the negotiation for example, Subaru, raging or not, will have no impact on the negotiation. The show specifically says, "You must give something of equal value", Subaru cannot do that, and thus, will lose a negotiation Mad or not. Your constant tunnel visioning on the fact that Subaru is mad is clouding your vision, look at the bigger picture. You could say "We would no know", true, but if you just think about it, it's obvious what the outcome will be. Like I said, you can pretend to be ignorant all you want to justify your point. |
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Buck_Wade said: Mentar said: This is getting tedious. So, the short version. You give no examples, you give empty assertions. For some absurd reason, you stubbornly insist that Subary can rage and rant all he wants, it doesn't matter anyway, because if he would behave like a civilized person, it would not change the outcome anyway. Which we simply don't know, but you claim with the irrefutable certainty of a true zealot :) Example: You claim that if he'd try to talk reasonably with Emilia, she wouldn't listen anyway. Which is completely unconvincing to me, because 1) she listens closely to him 2) she shows no signs of scepticism or distrust 3) she doesn't reject him even when he behaves like a total nutjob instead Likewise, if you insist on believing that it doesn't matter if he behaves like a nutjob in the negotiations with other parties that he will likely have to deal with in the future, too - be my guest. It is mind-bogglingly absurd, but whatever tickles your pickle. I am explaining why Subaru is getting on my nerves - bigtime, and constantly - and if apologets like you want to absolve him from everything, be my guest. Just don't insult my intelligence by asserting that everyone would react like Subaru, and that his perpetual uncontrolled outbursts have no impact on the storyline. No, nobody is saying that it is actually good that Subaru has acted like a raging maniac (although not on every occasion) for the past few episodes. They're saying that it makes sense within context, because his emotions are screwing with his rational thinking. That's how many people are. I'm sorry, but it's an extremely simple concept that we all know and can grasp. Yeah, agree. He's mentally broken so acting irrationally. He never seemed to have very good foresight, anyway, but all of the death and pain have completely screwed up his thought process. He's trying to find a quick, sharp way out of all of the madness and not navigating the channels of this (still relatively new) world well at all. And there is still so much he doesn't understand. No one is condoning Subaru's behaviour, but its not too far outside the realm of understand-ability given everything that's happened. |
simonli2575 said: Can someone remind me when Puck is referred to as a "he"? Not what you asked for but probably good enough? from ep 3, starting 05:03 |
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Buck_Wade said: I'm sorry, but can it be anymore obvious that he was talking to himself? Yes. If he was addressing himself. He wasn't. Again, "omae" is _not_ the Japanese way to refer to yourself, and it's also _not_ the equivalent of the kind of "you did a good job, champ" self-referring talk. There is a contextual justification for this interpretation solely over the fact that Emilia didn't do anything in his rant, but "obvious" is something else. |
Jakez123 said: I can tell you didn't understand my post. You still insist that I believe Emilia wouldn't listen to Subaru, again, I specifically said "Listening does not mean believing". She will LISTEN to Subaru regardless, but she won't BELIEVE him, those 2 are different things. My goodness, this word lawyering is getting ridiculous. "Listen to Subaru" the way I use it clearly implies MORE than just the act of listening, but naturally also implies "properly considering what she's hearing, and possibly acting on it". Your narrow interpretation essentially implies that Emilia will hear him out, but will have her mind made up already and decided not to believe him. Which is very much unlike her character, because it's borderline rude. If Emilia had her mind made up irrevocably, why should she listen to him in the first place? Why wouldn't she show irritation about seeing Subaru show up unexpectedly in the first place? Why does she show genuine concern instead? No, this kind of behavior is the opposite of her character. There are many reasons why in a crisis like this she might give Subaru the benefit of doubt. She's decided to believe him in the past to good effect, Puck has vouched for him being genuine, and he had proven himself before. The _one_ time that she lost patience with Subaru she had very good reason to do so - his selfishness was readily apparent, and he was meddling in issues which definitely were not his business. Every other time she has at least considered and almost always indulged him. Claiming with certainty (like you do) that she definitely wouldn't believe him is _not_ justified by the story. Just like there is no certainty that had Subaru approached the Princesses in a more constructive way (trying to find common ground and possibly a trade of sorts) would have failed. Your reasoning is a clear case of "there cannot be what there must not be". Nothing else. |
Mentar said: Jakez123 said: I can tell you didn't understand my post. You still insist that I believe Emilia wouldn't listen to Subaru, again, I specifically said "Listening does not mean believing". She will LISTEN to Subaru regardless, but she won't BELIEVE him, those 2 are different things. My goodness, this word lawyering is getting ridiculous. "Listen to Subaru" the way I use it clearly implies MORE than just the act of listening, but naturally also implies "properly considering what she's hearing, and possibly acting on it". Your narrow interpretation essentially implies that Emilia will hear him out, but will have her mind made up already and decided not to believe him. Which is very much unlike her character, because it's borderline rude. If Emilia had her mind made up irrevocably, why should she listen to him in the first place? Why wouldn't she show irritation about seeing Subaru show up unexpectedly in the first place? Why does she show genuine concern instead? No, this kind of behavior is the opposite of her character. There are many reasons why in a crisis like this she might give Subaru the benefit of doubt. She's decided to believe him in the past to good effect, Puck has vouched for him being genuine, and he had proven himself before. The _one_ time that she lost patience with Subaru she had very good reason to do so - his selfishness was readily apparent, and he was meddling in issues which definitely were not his business. Every other time she has at least considered and almost always indulged him. Claiming with certainty (like you do) that she definitely wouldn't believe him is _not_ justified by the story. Just like there is no certainty that had Subaru approached the Princesses in a more constructive way (trying to find common ground and possibly a trade of sorts) would have failed. Your reasoning is a clear case of "there cannot be what there must not be". Nothing else. Again, you come with this angle of "Trying to find common ground, and some form of trade". Again, we go back to these weird delusions of yours, from the stand point of where he is, what could he do to possibly convince the others to assist him? He himself knows he has nothing to offer, hence why he responds with "If you help me....I'll be in your debt". He has no reasonable alternative, hiding behind the idea that him approaching it differently would have changed the outcome is illogical. Obviously it's all hypothetical, but going from evidence given to us from the show, you're trying to somehow 180 the result and blaming it on subaru's acting, despite the show telling you otherwise. You're essentially disagreeing with the show itself. Crusch/Anastasia say "What do we gain from helping you", Subaru responds "I will only owe you a great debt", they decline, and then you come and try and talk your way into blaming it on Subaru's manners. I think the point of the episode flew over your head. Even though it wasn't explicitly stated, it was inferred, again, I go back to the Episodes title "A Pig's desire", obviously a metaphor for Subaru always "Wanting" and never "giving", which is the whole theme of the episode - Negotiations - give and take. And after hours of this discussion, you're still here telling me it's about Subaru's approach which hindered his negotiation? It was his lack of "giving", the lack of information he had to offer. But ok mate. |
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Rehls said: He's talking about himself, using himself as example, telling her that she'll fail just the same. I hadn't gotten it when watching, though. That's certainly an interesting interpretation but all of the evidence seems to point to the contrary. |
Buck_Wade said: Sighs. No, as in, he was talking TO her, but he was actually talking ABOUT himself. Well, it simply doesn't quite work like that with the Japanese, sorry. Throughout the entire talk, Subaru was addressing Emilia with "omae", even where it's 100% undoubtedly clear that he was talking about Emilia. And he consistently addresses himself with "ore". Now, he picks up Emilia's "dakara ima wa..." line and follows up finishing the sentence. And while Japanese is indeed a language in which the meaning often needs to be deduced by the context, he clearly says "Omae wa dame da, shippai suru!" (You're no good, you'll fail!) and "Sore ga omae no mirai da!" (That is your future!). So the only way to make the "this rant is about Subaru" possible means that in the middle of the talk he switches the target of "omae" from Emilia to himself. Very weird, but not 100% impossible. Certainly not obvious, though. If he shows another outburst of self-deprecation in the future, and preferably clearly aimed to himself, then I'd consider the "this is about Subaru" theory quite likely. But until then, we're in the grey zone. |
Rehls said: ( o_o) You seem to be overcomplicating something too simple. "I FAILED! I TRIED SO HARD AND STILL FAILED! YOU'll FAIL TOO! BELIEVE IN ME! *CRIES*" Surely she wouldn't understand. But he was too frustrated with not being able to tell her anything. And then what happened after? He couldn't take it anymore and decided to tell her, even at the cost of his own life. Except that he simply doesn't say that. No. Either this rant is indeed completely targeted at himself or completely at Emilia. "Omae wa dame da" is actually pretty harsh (has a connotation of "you are useless"), and "shippai suru" is clearly related to the same "omae" - there is no split "I tried so hard, and you will fail, too" that you are describing. I should add that I like how the English translation handled this (though "You won't work" has successfully misled some people). But the "you" solution keeps both theories alive. |
| COME ON JUST COME!!!!!!!!!!! Subaru Rem died and your just worried about that stupid Emilia I'm seriously PISSED OFF.................. HOW CAN U FORGET REM I HATE THAT EMILIA!!!1 AND SUBARU IS A CONFUSED MAN BAKA................. |
Minami_00Jul 27, 2016 12:33 PM
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Jagd84 said: batossai said: man these episodes are just repetitive, its the same shit over and over again. I fail to see the point of throwing all these circumstances where the MC just gets fucked over and over again. Its overdone, the death scenes have no impact and no meaning because they have been overexposed. Its been 17 episodes and we still have no idea what is happening , Its just a series of unfortunate events that befall the main character that don't seem to lead to anything substantial in terms of plot. Yes, if you just conveniently ignore everything else because you're too busy whining about MC having to struggle and overcome his flaws while dealing with machinations of others who are constantly targeting him and those he cares about for their own ends which either have to do with the Royal Election or the Witch of Envy. But whatever. What is "everything else" exactly? Do we really know anything more now about the Witch of Envy than we did say 10 episodes ago? Do we know why Subaru was transported to this world in the first place? Do we know anything substantial about Subaru's past for that matter? Do we know anything substantial about Emilia's past? Her motives? Why should we care about her bid in the election? Do we know why he is being targeted? Do we know why Emilia is being targeted? Do we know anything about Roswaal? and why he is always missing? Do we know anything about Beatrice? face it, this show did very little to advance the plot. We are two thirds of the way in the show and we barely know anything about it. |
SoraSenpai said: So is everyone just going to forget REM?!?! wow if that's the case my feels will be fucking torn. Fuck that White Whale. Also no explanation why it goes away, which I like but it's mysterious. I guess that's just the Witches power. Damn well at least Subaru tried to talk about Return by Death...unfortunately it resulted in Emilia's death! It was nice to get some Beatrice for once...even though she was barely in it. That was a nice scene. So now he can see Beetlejuice's hands...I guess he's getting Stronger? Maybe by Embracing the Witch more? I mean he does have Darkness powers. Puck...PUCK!!!! She died before Subaru finished telling her. Death was probably unrelated and happened to occur at the perfect time. |
| Previously: BlueXRam |
Rehls said: He simply said all that. She's a candidate because she wants to fight. He's telling her that she'll lose. Because he lost. Because the challenge is much more difficult than she imagines. He knows it. He isn't happy about it. He's frustrated that she isn't aware of all that he had to go through. The part where she points out that he's crying makes it clear that he's talking from his experiences. It doesn't matter to you that neither the Japanese original nor the official English translation agree with you? Surreal day. |
Rehls said: ( o_o) You seem to be overcomplicating something too simple. "I FAILED! I TRIED SO HARD AND STILL FAILED! YOU'll FAIL TOO! BELIEVE IN ME! *CRIES*" Surely she wouldn't understand. But he was too frustrated with not being able to tell her anything. He was the one crying. Because it all happened to him. And then what happened after? He couldn't take it anymore and decided to tell her, even at the cost of his own life. not really, he just insulting emilia because she didn't want to go with him (maybe thats because his anger and fear, but thats that), just like previous episode when they last meet. maybe subaru intention was to say things like you stated, but his words literally sound as @Meltar said. |
| 期待しているよ、私のサリアだって、嘘ばっかり! でもねアンジュ、あんたがいなくなれば、私の方が強いってわかれば, それができるなら、何もいらない! |
Anti-Agelast said: TadpoleSHero said: This. The idea that many people are perpetuating, that no one could do better than Subaru in the same circumstances, that everyone would act the same, that he represents how all of us would react, is utter and complete nonsense. In a period of less than 3 months, Subaru has been isolated from his entire world, been killed brutally multiple times, he's been tortured, he's had to watch people he cares about die multiple times. He can't even ease his burdens by talking to anyone about it honestly. Perhaps there are superhumans who could move through this unaffected, but Subaru clearly isn't one of those people. I definitely did not state that people would not be affected by the circumstances. I'm saying not everyone would react the same way. Could people be affected and perform better than Subaru? Absolutely. Could people be affected and perform worse than Subaru? Absolutely. Just because you're "affected" does not mean your actions will be the same. Everyone reacts to trauma, stress, and fear differently. I don't like these kinds of hyperbolic counter arguments where one person says "Not everyone would act the same as Subaru" or "he should be doing better than this" and the counter argument is "oh well maybe a superhuman would be unaffected" when clearly the first person did not mention superhuman abilities or being unaffected at all. Hyperbole in counter arguments shows an anger, a fear, or a frustration with people carrying an opposite viewpoint to your own, and an inability to engage that argument in a mature and intelligent manner. My point is this: YES Subaru is going through hell. BUT that doesn't mean his actions are worth writing off as "well everyone would act that way in the circumstances" because that is pretty obviously false. Some may act like him, but many would act differently. Some would have given up completely by now. Some would just be trying to run away from everything and ignoring Rem and Emilia and the rest. And some would be doing their darndest to rise above, fight through the struggle, think and strategize through the pain, and find a better way. Not a PERFECT way, not a SUPERHUMAN "I'm immune to emotions" way, but a better way. |
TadpoleSHero said: I definitely did not state that people would not be affected by the circumstances. I'm saying not everyone would react the same way. Could people be affected and perform better than Subaru? Absolutely. Could people be affected and perform worse than Subaru? Absolutely. I never actually disagreed with this though? |
SandyBoi said: Heh. True, I could be wrong as well. What I believe he's doing there is basically paraphrasing what everyone else has been saying about him over the past few episodes. Like in Episode 16, where Subaru gets up, Mimi threatens him with her cane or w/e, then Anastasia stops her and says that "He can't do anything anyway" (Not those exact words, but I think you get what I mean.) Having seen some reactions on YT, seems like a few of them believed that he was talking about Emilia rather than himself. Hm, guess my earlier post in regards to my interpretation on the matter got ignored eh. With all the arguing going on about the Japanese used in this scene etc, ugh, guess it's more ambiguous than I initially thought. I'm still fairly convinced that he was just paraphrasing everything the others (Felis/Ferris, Anastasia) have been saying about him. |
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| @Mentar Have you never given an advice to someone , but in the process you were reflecting more on yourself than others.. Have you never said something to others , that you wanted to say to yourself.. It's obvious Subaru is talking about himself.The translation and grammar don't really matter in this case , it's about the context of his words. When he says " you won't learn until you see a pile of bodies around you" ( or along that line ) he's talking about himself , he belives it was his mistake that things turned out that way for everyone.The candidates pointing out his flaws for him in ep 16 only rubbed more salt in the wound. |
Killer96bee said: Rehls said: One Month is too much xDThey'd not be Subaru. That's the question. It's only natural for Subaru to act like Subaru. He's a 'prideful, naive good guy' in a few words. Where's it stated that 3 months had passed? To me it appears that only about month has. like a week and half .... First episodes the introduction...where felt stole the badge 2 days...then he goes to the mansion one more day.... then he 5 days in the mansion(the dog bite) after that , 3 days( to the candidates stuff) they go on long way to avoid the whale ... then subaru gets beated and cured by rem and the Trap ( dont know his name so yeah trap xD ) and discuss with Emi, 1 more day and know this episode where actually is one more day to add so the result is 1 week and 3/4 days it passed :D Pretty sure it was stated that there was like a month gap in between the end of arc 2 and the start of arc 3 |
Mentar said: Rehls said: He simply said all that. She's a candidate because she wants to fight. He's telling her that she'll lose. Because he lost. Because the challenge is much more difficult than she imagines. He knows it. He isn't happy about it. He's frustrated that she isn't aware of all that he had to go through. The part where she points out that he's crying makes it clear that he's talking from his experiences. It doesn't matter to you that neither the Japanese original nor the official English translation agree with you? Surreal day. Red_Ranger_Wien said: Rehls said: He's talking about himself, using himself as example, telling her that she'll fail just the same. I hadn't gotten it when watching, though. That's certainly an interesting interpretation but all of the evidence seems to point to the contrary. Except the author has already implied that Subaru was talking about himself. https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/757250321294909440 He livetweets as the episodes air. |
Ninjasander said: Mentar said: It doesn't matter to you that neither the Japanese original nor the official English translation agree with you? Surreal day. Red_Ranger_Wien said: That's certainly an interesting interpretation but all of the evidence seems to point to the contrary. Except the author has already implied that Subaru was talking about himself. https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/757250321294909440 He livetweets as the episodes air. I still don't know how some people not catch this. Hell his facial expression and Emilia's response should clued you in at least. |
Jagd84 said: Ninjasander said: Except the author has already implied that Subaru was talking about himself. https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/757250321294909440 He livetweets as the episodes air. I still don't know how some people not catch this. Hell his facial expression and Emilia's response should clued you in at least. Some people can't see the implication and take what they see 100% litteraly even when the authors want you to do otherwise. I mean, it is a form of art. And art leaves a message that is interpreted (rightly or wrongly, that is not the point). Besides it is so freaking obvious that I don't know how you can't even see it. Or maybe some people are not old enough...no I don't think that has anything to do with it. |
"Vaut mieux se suffire à soi que finir assoiffé dans le monde des apparences."  |
Tony_SansNom said: Jagd84 said: I still don't know how some people not catch this. Hell his facial expression and Emilia's response should clued you in at least. Some people can't see the implication and take what they see 100% litteraly even when the authors want you to do otherwise. I mean, it is a form of art. And art leaves a message that is interpreted (rightly or wrongly, that is not the point). Besides it is so freaking obvious that I don't know how you can't even see it. Or maybe some people are not old enough...no I don't think that has anything to do with it. I can understand your frustration, but please don't make insulting remarks regarding people's age. It'll only devolve any kind of meaningful discussion. |
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