HikariJake said: 1 - I'd be shocked if there were 200 million people around the world who even watch anime enough to need to buy a Crunchyroll subscription. ublock origin fixes KissAnime's ad problem. There are other sites, anyway. 2 - People have priorities other than anime and don't make a lot of money. They need to save every last penny. 3 - 480p for modern animation is bad, I'm sorry. Nobody is entitled to anything, no shit. 1 - wtf are you even talking about? I'm losing my shit over here. You said that everyone uses adblock these days, and I've proven to you that (if I'm being really generous) maybe 20% of internet users use adblock. IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Wtf was that last point you made up. Regarding the second part, that was my point, you genius. There is a way, but it's even more obscure than adblock in general, so EVEN LESS people can get around those unsafe ads. Also, Kissanime is the biggest illegal streaming site by far, so you don't get to bring up "there are other sites" as a counterargument. We're talking about the general morality of pirating anime, based on its consequences. We're not talking about the specific ways in which YOU could pirate. 2 - Yeah lol. At a tiime when the biggest entertainment industry charges 60 dollars for every new game and still thrives, you have the nerve to suggest that fans can't afford 60 dollars a year for Crunchy. If you care even the slightest bit, you pay. If you don't care (aka you're morally wrong), you don't pay. 3 - Wtf. 95% of modern animation is 720p. You're talking as if we're going from 4k to 240p. Stealing from a child is wrong. Stealing from an independent artist is reason to feel guilty. Stealing from a corporation, isn't all that bad. It's certainly justifiable, and there's a reason everybody does it-- because it doesn't actually matter all that much. Holy mental gymnastics. You are stealing (Oh, I'm sorry, you're infringing copyright) from the hard-working people with families that make up corporations. When the anime industry is truly going down the shitter in terms of sales and production value, then you'd have a point. Anime is a huge industry though, and I don't see illegal streaming, which has always been around since the late 90's, killing the industry. I don't. So there's no reason to feel it's immoral, especially if you have a Crunchy subscription or buy DVDs. If you cared even the slightest bit, you'd know that TV revenue for anime is plummeting, BD/DVD revenue is steadily decreasing, and producers now have to rely on internet-related and/or foreign income, which is obviously on the rise, especially on the asian side, but on our side too, given the recent announcement of 1 million subs by Crunchy. You'd have to be in denial to avoid noticing how many new anime are co-produced with the west, from the "netflix exclusives" like LWA and that new cyberpunk anime that's yet to come out, to stuff like FLCL 2, Funimation titles like Dimension W etc Hell, Crunchy is now sitting at the production table of every anime from Kadokawa, thanks to a recent agreement. You just need to do the math to notice that Crunchyroll by itself gives AT LEAST 2.5 million dollars back to japanese producers every month. That's enough to fund 3 new anime per season. What is and isn't moral is highly subjective when it comes down to it, and if illegally streaming anime is immoral, it is nothing you'd be labelled as a bad person over. That's why I don't even consider it immoral, it's so minuscule in the grand scheme of things. Oh, don't worry, I am labeling you as a bad person. Of course your contribution (or lack thereof) is minuscule, but there are millions of douchebags like you running around, and that's NOT minuscule. That's how morality works. |
Lollo36Feb 11, 2017 12:43 AM
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| We pirates are just misunderstood! We don't mean to harm anyone.... We just don't want to pay for shit! |
Tylaen said: Drunk_Samurai said: Calling a dissenting opinion trolling? New low Olympics.No, you're just trolling. You're the one who is trying to word cleave by strongarming your own definition into what it actually means.  On the contrary, I feel like you're strong-arming the definition to the point of brittle inflexibility, insisting that getting your hands on something, not within your rights has nothing to do with stealing. Your bullheadedness won't really make me less bullheaded. No it is because you don't understand actual definitions of words. Both legally definition and dictionary definition piracy has only ever been copyright infringement. Lollo36 said: HikariJake said: 1 - I'd be shocked if there were 200 million people around the world who even watch anime enough to need to buy a Crunchyroll subscription. ublock origin fixes KissAnime's ad problem. There are other sites, anyway. 2 - People have priorities other than anime and don't make a lot of money. They need to save every last penny. 3 - 480p for modern animation is bad, I'm sorry. Nobody is entitled to anything, no shit. 1 - wtf are you even talking about? I'm losing my shit over here. You said that everyone uses adblock these days, and I've proven to you that (if I'm being really generous) maybe 20% of internet users use adblock. IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND? Wtf was that last point you made up. Regarding the second part, that was my point, you genius. There is a way, but it's even more obscure than adblock in general, so EVEN LESS people can get around those unsafe ads. Also, Kissanime is the biggest illegal streaming site by far, so you don't get to bring up "there are other sites" as a counterargument. We're talking about the general morality of pirating anime, based on its consequences. We're not talking about the specific ways in which YOU could pirate. 2 - Yeah lol. At a tiime when the biggest entertainment industry charges 60 dollars for every new game and still thrives, you have the nerve to suggest that fans can't afford 60 dollars a year for Crunchy. If you care even the slightest bit, you pay. If you don't care (aka you're morally wrong), you don't pay. 3 - Wtf. 95% of modern animation is 720p. You're talking as if we're going from 4k to 240p. Stealing from a child is wrong. Stealing from an independent artist is reason to feel guilty. Stealing from a corporation, isn't all that bad. It's certainly justifiable, and there's a reason everybody does it-- because it doesn't actually matter all that much. Holy mental gymnastics. You are stealing (Oh, I'm sorry, you're infringing copyright) from the hard-working people with families that make up corporations. When the anime industry is truly going down the shitter in terms of sales and production value, then you'd have a point. Anime is a huge industry though, and I don't see illegal streaming, which has always been around since the late 90's, killing the industry. I don't. So there's no reason to feel it's immoral, especially if you have a Crunchy subscription or buy DVDs. If you cared even the slightest bit, you'd know that TV revenue for anime is plummeting, BD/DVD revenue is steadily decreasing, and producers now have to rely on internet-related and/or foreign income, which is obviously on the rise, especially on the asian side, but on our side too, given the recent announcement of 1 million subs by Crunchy. You'd have to be in denial to avoid noticing how many new anime are co-produced with the west, from the "netflix exclusives" like LWA and that new cyberpunk anime that's yet to come out, to stuff like FLCL 2, Funimation titles like Dimension W etc Hell, Crunchy is now sitting at the production table of every anime from Kadokawa, thanks to a recent agreement. You just need to do the math to notice that Crunchyroll by itself gives AT LEAST 2.5 million dollars back to japanese producers every month. That's enough to fund 3 new anime per season. What is and isn't moral is highly subjective when it comes down to it, and if illegally streaming anime is immoral, it is nothing you'd be labelled as a bad person over. That's why I don't even consider it immoral, it's so minuscule in the grand scheme of things. Oh, don't worry, I am labeling you as a bad person. Of course your contribution (or lack thereof) is minuscule, but there are millions of douchebags like you running around, and that's NOT minuscule. That's how morality works. You clearly don't know how it works. Most people who pirate something never would have bought the product in the first place. They are not lost sales because there would have been no sale in the first place. Also you're going to have to prove that people who pirate are morally wrong now. |
Drunk_Samurai said: Tylaen said: Calling a dissenting opinion trolling? New low Olympics.  On the contrary, I feel like you're strong-arming the definition to the point of brittle inflexibility, insisting that getting your hands on something, not within your rights has nothing to do with stealing. Your bullheadedness won't really make me less bullheaded. No it is because you don't understand actual definitions of words. Both legally definition and dictionary definition piracy has only ever been copyright infringement.  With how you conduct your arguments, I think you yourself might not be capable of understanding that, that I was never clinging to the dictionary to the letter. Not that I'd expect anything less, from someone incapable of understanding the links between the two similar concepts, yet chooses to reiterate the same argument in the hopes that I'll somehow understand it this time. |
TylaenFeb 11, 2017 9:28 AM
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Tylaen said: Drunk_Samurai said: No it is because you don't understand actual definitions of words. Both legally definition and dictionary definition piracy has only ever been copyright infringement. With how you conduct your arguments, I think you yourself might not be capable of understanding that, that I was never clinging to the dictionary to the letter. Not that I'd expect anything less, from someone incapable of understanding the links between the two similar concepts, yet chooses to reiterate the same argument in the hopes that I'll somehow understand it this time. No the issue is you are falsely trying to put your own definition on an action. They may be similar but they are not the same thing at all. You can call it "theft" all you want but you'd just be flat out wrong. This is a case where an opinion can be wrong because the actual facts of the matter say otherwise. |
Drunk_Samurai said: Tylaen said: With how you conduct your arguments, I think you yourself might not be capable of understanding that, that I was never clinging to the dictionary to the letter. Not that I'd expect anything less, from someone incapable of understanding the links between the two similar concepts, yet chooses to reiterate the same argument in the hopes that I'll somehow understand it this time. No the issue is you are falsely trying to put your own definition on an action. They may be similar but they are not the same thing at all. You can call it "theft" all you want but you'd just be flat out wrong. This is a case where an opinion can be wrong because the actual facts of the matter say otherwise. I've been very truthful about not having a stick up my ass and playing the semantics of it so far, that I can't see the light of day Drunk_Samurai said: You've yet to tell me otherwise, especially when you acknowledge what I've been saying here but chose to deny it all the same.They may be similar but they are not the same thing at all. Drunk_Samurai said: The only "fact" I see, Is that you want me to say "Copyright infringement" instead of "theft" or "stealing".This is a case where an opinion can be wrong because the actual facts of the matter say otherwise. My opinion on the usage of the word is neither far-fetched nor hard to comprehend, but feel free to use your time on other things, if you feel I'm "wrong" and there is nothing to gain from continuously saying the same thing over and over. |
TylaenFeb 11, 2017 11:24 AM
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| Obviously it's wrong. But so long as it's around, it will continue to be abused. If we couldn't stream anime then the industry would be in a better position than it's in. Not only that, but I assume people would enjoy what they're watching more, as they're likely to find out more about an anime then buy it, rather than simply streaming an anime and seeing if you like it. Of course not every would be able to afford to purchase anime on such a regular basis, but there are sites where you can pay a monthly/yearly fee and watch all you want, I think is the best compromise. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
Hector_Ndlovu said: The point Is actually to make something profitable.The point is that it was created for viewers to enjoy and watch, period. |
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| @Drunk_Samurai I wouldn't waste my time arguing with him if I were you. No amount of facts and logical reasoning is enough to convince people who refuse to accept them. There is no hope for foolish people. |
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Apoc_Revolution said: Logic Is relative and we're talking about a malleable subject created by human beings, not dictated by nature.@Drunk_Samurai I wouldn't waste my time arguing with him if I were you. No amount of facts and logical reasoning is enough to convince people who refuse to accept them. There is no hope for foolish people. A very melodramatic sentence, though. Commendable. |
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| I stream anime from illegal sites however I purchase merchandise, DVDs anf manga so morally I think it's fine that I stream it since I at least give something back. |
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OP said: I stream anime from illegal sites however I purchase merchandise, DVDs anf manga so morally I think it's fine that I stream it since I at least give something back. Same. I watch all my anime as soon as its subbed wither on kissanime or 9anime but I own almost all my favorites. If I rate it a 10 or 9, I will probably buy the DVD box set. |
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| And I own like 3 bookshelves of manga because one, I prefer reading a paper book than online reading and two, manga is so much cheaper and more accessible than anime. |
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| Well sure, it's technically wrong. But can you blame them/us, when there are obstacles in the way? |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
Tylaen said: Drunk_Samurai said: No the issue is you are falsely trying to put your own definition on an action. They may be similar but they are not the same thing at all. You can call it "theft" all you want but you'd just be flat out wrong. This is a case where an opinion can be wrong because the actual facts of the matter say otherwise. I've been very truthful about not having a stick up my ass and playing the semantics of it so far, that I can't see the light of day Drunk_Samurai said: You've yet to tell me otherwise, especially when you acknowledge what I've been saying here but chose to deny it all the same.They may be similar but they are not the same thing at all. Drunk_Samurai said: The only "fact" I see, Is that you want me to say "Copyright infringement" instead of "theft" or "stealing".This is a case where an opinion can be wrong because the actual facts of the matter say otherwise. My opinion on the usage of the word is neither far-fetched nor hard to comprehend, but feel free to use your time on other things, if you feel I'm "wrong" and there is nothing to gain from continuously saying the same thing over and over. It doesn't matter what your opinion is. If the actual definition of something says otherwise then your "opinion" is wrong. You can't say "In my opinion the world is flat." The fact of the matter is piracy is not theft. Fuchsia said: Obviously it's wrong. But so long as it's around, it will continue to be abused. If we couldn't stream anime then the industry would be in a better position than it's in. Not only that, but I assume people would enjoy what they're watching more, as they're likely to find out more about an anime then buy it, rather than simply streaming an anime and seeing if you like it. Of course not every would be able to afford to purchase anime on such a regular basis, but there are sites where you can pay a monthly/yearly fee and watch all you want, I think is the best compromise. That is not how it works at all. There's no evidence a person who streamed an anime would have bought it in the first place. They inflate those "lost sale" numbers by at least 95% Hell I'm probably even being generous when I give 5% as an actual lost sale. The industry is not struggling at all and if it was then it wouldn't have anything to do with piracy. Also blindly buying something is the worst way of seeing if something is good. |
| Of course it is. But if u just cant afford anime (like me) i guess i cant be helped. |
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Drunk_Samurai said: Please don't reiterate this again and expect me to reply. I've already done so thrice now.Tylaen said: I've been very truthful about not having a stick up my ass and playing the semantics of it so far, that I can't see the light of day You've yet to tell me otherwise, especially when you acknowledge what I've been saying here but chose to deny it all the same. The only "fact" I see, Is that you want me to say "Copyright infringement" instead of "theft" or "stealing". My opinion on the usage of the word is neither far-fetched nor hard to comprehend, but feel free to use your time on other things, if you feel I'm "wrong" and there is nothing to gain from continuously saying the same thing over and over. It doesn't matter what your opinion is. If the actual definition of something says otherwise then your "opinion" is wrong. You can't say "In my opinion the world is flat." The fact of the matter is piracy is not theft. |
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Tylaen said: Please don't reiterate this again and expect me to reply. I've already done so thrice now. Well that would be your own fault for having an "opinion" that goes against established facts. |
Drunk_Samurai said: Apart from words being about one the most malleable "facts" available, that "fact" does little to deter anything I've said.Tylaen said: Please don't reiterate this again and expect me to reply. I've already done so thrice now. Well, that would be your own fault for having an "opinion" that goes against established facts. |
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| It is wrong, however I have my on sense of justice. With all this crappy anime that keep getting aired, that are essentially big advertisements to the manga, I don't feel bad at all. |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
Tylaen said: Drunk_Samurai said: Apart from words being about one the most malleable "facts" available, that "fact" does little to deter anything I've said.Well, that would be your own fault for having an "opinion" that goes against established facts. Yeah it actually does. You're trying to force your own definition and crime on a completely different definition and crime. |
| Is it wrong to download anime that hasn't been licensed in NA? No. How the hell else are we going to view it? Is it wrong to download anime that has been licensed in NA? Yes. Do I do it anyway? Yes. Same with manga. I used to waste so much money buying anime/manga on whim and ended up hating most of it, thus wasting money. Now I pirate what I want and purchase what I like. I mean, I illegally download chapters of Skip Beat!, but love it enough that I continue to buy the manga (just purchased vol 37) even though I'm still reading ahead via scanlations just so I could have physical copies. I first saw Death Parade via illegal streaming, then on Hulu, and then I bought the DVD, again, so I could have a physical copy. I mean, I know I'm not exactly contributing to the original creators when I buy licensed anime/manga since they don't exactly profit from it, but it's something at least. |
| Honestly the only method of watching anime that I judge people for using is KissAnime |
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reinakun said: Is it wrong to download anime that hasn't been licensed in NA? No. How the hell else are we going to view it? Is it wrong to download anime that has been licensed in NA? Yes. Do I do it anyway? Yes. Same with manga. I used to waste so much money buying anime/manga on whim and ended up hating most of it, thus wasting money. Now I pirate what I want and purchase what I like. I mean, I illegally download chapters of Skip Beat!, but love it enough that I continue to buy the manga (just purchased vol 37) even though I'm still reading ahead via scanlations just so I could have physical copies. I first saw Death Parade via illegal streaming, then on Hulu, and then I bought the DVD, again, so I could have a physical copy. I mean, I know I'm not exactly contributing to the original creators when I buy licensed anime/manga since they don't exactly profit from it, but it's something at least. So you're saying that a person in Cambodia who downloads say One Piece is in the wrong since it's licensed in North America? |
| Pirating itself is illegal and "wrong". So the short answer is yes |
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Lunarian said: Pirating itself is illegal and "wrong". So the short answer is yes Morals are subjective. Being illegal does not automatically make something wrong. |
| The police sirens are telling me yes, but my wallet, my wallet is telling me no. |
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Drunk_Samurai said: reinakun said: Is it wrong to download anime that hasn't been licensed in NA? No. How the hell else are we going to view it? Is it wrong to download anime that has been licensed in NA? Yes. Do I do it anyway? Yes. Same with manga. I used to waste so much money buying anime/manga on whim and ended up hating most of it, thus wasting money. Now I pirate what I want and purchase what I like. I mean, I illegally download chapters of Skip Beat!, but love it enough that I continue to buy the manga (just purchased vol 37) even though I'm still reading ahead via scanlations just so I could have physical copies. I first saw Death Parade via illegal streaming, then on Hulu, and then I bought the DVD, again, so I could have a physical copy. I mean, I know I'm not exactly contributing to the original creators when I buy licensed anime/manga since they don't exactly profit from it, but it's something at least. So you're saying that a person in Cambodia who downloads say One Piece is in the wrong since it's licensed in North America? I was using a personal example as I live in NA. Basically, if it's licensed in your country--and therefore easily accessible and available in a language you can understand--and you pirate it anyway it's wrong. Not to mention illegal. I mean, I still pirtate anime/manga anyway since I'm not an effing millionaire, but facts are facts. |
| It's wrong, but I can live with myself for doing it. I do have more respect for someone who only pirates for trial purposes than people who pirate the whole shows. |
hintoFeb 17, 2017 2:08 PM
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Ago_go said: no it does not. and here is my reason why. if I couldn't watch it for free, I wouldn't be watching it. making it free is the only reason I bother to watch anything. That's basically the mindset of a thief, though. You need a new justification, I think. |
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reinakun said: Drunk_Samurai said: So you're saying that a person in Cambodia who downloads say One Piece is in the wrong since it's licensed in North America? I was using a personal example as I live in NA. Basically, if it's licensed in your country--and therefore easily accessible and available in a language you can understand--and you pirate it anyway it's wrong. Not to mention illegal. I mean, I still pirtate anime/manga anyway since I'm not an effing millionaire, but facts are facts. No. That's not how it works. Morals are subjective. You can't say pirating something licensed in North America is wrong for a "fact". hinto said: It's wrong, but I can live with myself for doing it. I do have more respect for someone who only pirates for trial purposes than people who pirate the whole shows. An entire show is a trial purpose. There are many shows that become shit in later half of the series. hinto said: Ago_go said: no it does not. and here is my reason why. if I couldn't watch it for free, I wouldn't be watching it. making it free is the only reason I bother to watch anything. That's basically the mindset of a thief, though. You need a new justification, I think. No it isn't. A thief actually takes something causing a lost. A pirate makes a copy of an item and it is only copyright infringement. |
| No, since you pay for the internet that needs to connect to the website. |
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Drunk_Samurai said: reinakun said: I was using a personal example as I live in NA. Basically, if it's licensed in your country--and therefore easily accessible and available in a language you can understand--and you pirate it anyway it's wrong. Not to mention illegal. I mean, I still pirtate anime/manga anyway since I'm not an effing millionaire, but facts are facts. No. That's not how it works. Morals are subjective. You can't say pirating something licensed in North America is wrong for a "fact". hinto said: It's wrong, but I can live with myself for doing it. I do have more respect for someone who only pirates for trial purposes than people who pirate the whole shows. An entire show is a trial purpose. There are many shows that become shit in later half of the series. No it isn't. A thief actually takes something causing a lost. A pirate makes a copy of an item and it is only copyright infringement. I suggested it was similar to the mindset of a thief, not actual theft. That it is only copyright infringement is why I don't feel so bad about doing it myself ^_^ I can see how it's wrong, but I can live with infringing anime copyright among my sins. |
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Drunk_Samurai said: Except it isn't. The actual definition of theft is taking. Copying is not even close to theft. in some industries copying is a crame ones called its called Plagiarism for copying and the claiming as your own then there Copyright infringement that is what most illegal downloading falls under. (and the reason i don't practices downloading anime or tv series) however there is no law punishing people for watching mind you they keep trying to make one but there so many way it could get abused that people activity block any law trying to pass for that |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
hinto said: I suggested it was similar to the mindset of a thief, not actual theft. That it is only copyright infringement is why I don't feel so bad about doing it myself ^_^ I can see how it's wrong, but I can live with infringing anime copyright among my sins. It isn't anyway. Most people who steal something only do so because they need to. Such as stealing food. That mindset is just saying they will watch it for free anyway. hazerddex said: Drunk_Samurai said: Except it isn't. The actual definition of theft is taking. Copying is not even close to theft. in some industries copying is a crame ones called its called Plagiarism for copying and the claiming as your own then there Copyright infringement that is what most illegal downloading falls under. (and the reason i don't practices downloading anime or tv series) however there is no law punishing people for watching mind you they keep trying to make one but there so many way it could get abused that people activity block any law trying to pass for that Plagiarism isn't the same as making a copy of a video. Plagiarism is when a person does it with theintention of taking all credit. Usually for monetary purposes. Also there are plenty of laws against copyright infringement. I'm just saying that theft and copyright infringement are two completely different crimes. |
| I think it's wrong but I have to resort to illegally streaming my shows. It's because either I can't afford it or it's not licensed in North America. If there's a show that I really adore like Fullmetal Alchemist, then I do my best to buy it whenever I get the chance. |
| Well here in the Philippines there isn't much where you can buy physical copies. Online is usually the go to but the prices are whacked. Legal streaming is the best bet. I personally pirate because one my internet sucks as so legal streaming will bite me in the ass. And before online shit became popular Two, I've been buying cd/dvd which produced hits and misses. And it's not like it's cheap either. So now I've pirated ever since and three if I REALLY LOVE it then I will buy it. Like how I'm saving up to buy One Piece and Naruto mangas. |
| "When I decided to follow my dream, I had already discarded my life.” -Roronoa Zoro |
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