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| Really sorry for Akane's grandma :(( At least we could see Kougami again . So final episode left. Lets see how things get settled. |
| Good ending to this episode, but sadly this season hasnt been that epic. Now, the movie... Thats gonna be interesting. LOL @ Togane's CC. |
| It's official, the series has gone full retard. Let me get this straight. Using what? 6-8 dominators in quick succession overloads the system.....SYBIL SCANNERS ARE FUCKING EVERYWHERE. There are literally thousands of scanners all throughout the country probably simultaneously scanning tens of thousands of people but scanning 20 extra people will overload the system. Not to mention that Sybil still just refuses to turn off the dominators that Kamui has or revoke access for the inspector. Because that would prove that Sybil isn't perfect.....as opposed to blowing up a train of innocent people without scanning them just to kill Kamui cos he can't be judged (which means it's not perfect and it knows it) or deliberately turning inspectors dark for years, or threatening to revoke Akane's dominator access despite her hue also still being clear which is a fucking blatant contradiction to the reasoning it gave for why it wouldn't revoke the other inspectors. This season has gotten worse every episode.....I kinda can't wait to see how the season finale will disappoint me and what exciting new plot holes will appear. |
| Great episode! Can't wait for the final episode next week!!! :) I seriously hope I'm not the only one who thinks Sakuya Togane is sexy as f**k, hahah ;) |
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| Only one more episode remaining. I don't really like the idea that they're gone sum everything up in just one last episode, with some "amazing" last minute twist or whatever. This last one wasn't so bad but didn't exactly thrill me either. I wasn't expecting akane to become so analitical ,5 minutes of crying and shouting then back to normal. She's begining to resemble the Sybil system. The only good part is that she doesn't want to kill anyone....unlike togane with >700CC(wow). The whole idea of judging the sybil sistem as a comunity isn't bad, but you can't develop all that in just one remaining episode...hope they make an OVA or movie after. And also the evolution of kamui is interesting, in the beginning you think he's the bad guy, just another "terrorist" and now you find out that he is actually the good guy (although he used twisted methods). Hope the last episode will sum it up nicely or at least decent. |
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| Kougami! Yay! |
| You can say whatever you want about this season but everytime that ED kicks in towards the end the ongoing scene gets boosted to effing chill-inducing-status. This exact moment every episode may be one of the highlights of this entire anime season. xD |
SimmianPrime said: It's official, the series has gone full retard. Let me get this straight. Using what? 6-8 dominators in quick succession overloads the system.....SYBIL SCANNERS ARE FUCKING EVERYWHERE. There are literally thousands of scanners all throughout the country probably simultaneously scanning tens of thousands of people but scanning 20 extra people will overload the system. Not to mention that Sybil still just refuses to turn off the dominators that Kamui has or revoke access for the inspector. Because that would prove that Sybil isn't perfect.....as opposed to blowing up a train of innocent people without scanning them just to kill Kamui cos he can't be judged (which means it's not perfect and it knows it) or deliberately turning inspectors dark for years, or threatening to revoke Akane's dominator access despite her hue also still being clear which is a fucking blatant contradiction to the reasoning it gave for why it wouldn't revoke the other inspectors. This season has gotten worse every episode.....I kinda can't wait to see how the season finale will disappoint me and what exciting new plot holes will appear. Nice catch. That's not a hole, it's a crater LOL. Even if it was just a threat, it doesn't work because Akane should be well aware of Sybil's limitations, otherwise she wouldn't have showed her hand or felt secure in provoking/negotiating with the hive. *facepalm* |
Gymkata said: Nice catch. That's not a hole, it's a crater LOL. And a freaking huge one. If Sybil can't interfere with the workings of the dominators, she can't take away Akane's access. If she can interfere, she should've taken the rights from the rogue inspector and Kamui. And she should be able to block dominator pointed at Tougane. But it shouldn't even be a question, since it was shown in season 1 that she can influence dominators. The problem is that the new writer doesn't understand, what the setting is about. I usually don't like to make such assumptions, but it's kinda obvious. PP was exploring the contradiction between personal freedom and the needs of safe society. There is that idea that maybe humans would be happier if they were stripped of the need to make choices, made into a happy controlled herd. In fiction people usually choose freedom, but in fact the choice and the matter of things are not that simple. Urobuchi likes to introduce such conflicts in his works, but he never solves them (no wonder, since they are more or less unsolveable). Now I understand that in this season they had to break this status quo, but they instead broke the logic behing the fictional world. They made Sybil into a person. She now is a villain, who acts randomly and on a whim, not a system. She even has a son for goddamn sake! This can be explained in two ways. 1) Tougane's mom hijacked the robotic body for herself. But then Sybil should've intervened - it's not that this body is their only way to interact with the world. 2) The writer f** up. Well, I can't say that they haven't brought up interesting topics. Control via medication is a logical step in their society. They could've introduced a drug that changed their world. Psychologists must have a lot of power over people's lives. So people of this profession could've played an important part. The topic of illegal migration and international relations could've been used (they will do it in the movie though). Sybil coul've changed. They could reveal their secret to work more efficiently and stir unrest. They could face inner conflict between brains. The logical step would be to make them limit people too much. Or maybe they could've really become too self-serving. But they shouldn't act as a one moustache-twirling villain, a stupid one to boot. The idea to evaluate the direction, in which the system takes the country, isn't a bad one too, but how can it be achieved by a dominator? Sybil is a field of brain jars. We don't even know how it works, but it's hard to imagine, that pointing a dominator on a field of brains will yield results, especially since that field is the thing that makes dominators work. In the latest episodes they also try to make Sybil look like a god. But it comes out of nowhere. First of all, it's an especially cheap way to approach the problem. If something is deified than things have gone too far. But they haven't demonstrated in a sufficient way that Sybil is actually viewed as a god. From what we know she is seen as a system beneficial to everyone. People do not claim that she is omnipotent, they just have agreed some time ago that she is more efficient than a human government. So I don't think that the omnipotence paradox has anything to do with the situation. As well as the problem with Kamui. Ok, he is abnormal, so what? They even know why, so what is there to worry about for Sybil? It's not that collective intelligences will start to appear on their own. And they f**d up the setting. Why do they use mobile phones of the same tech level, as we do? It's important to show progress in fiction about future. Where are the holographic clothes and houses, the VN chatrooms? Why are enforcers so relaxed? They are effectively prisoners, whose future is to be killed on dutuy or to retire to a closed-off facility? The tension between these bitter guys and inspectors, who were elite but couldn't do their work by themselves, was what made relationships in season 1 so fun to watch. Where is it now? And the plot twists are so forced... There is suddenly a whole cell of Kamui's followers despite total control. People are exchanged for illegal immigrants. They can now transplant psycho pass! People's crime coefficients go above 100 in a matter of minutes under any stress. The MMPSB doesn't have explosives. It is possible to ddos Sybil (lol). This is bad. And it's bad objectively. |
deadoptimistDec 12, 2014 5:00 PM
deadoptimist said: You have a good point, this season has been incredibly entertaining though.Gymkata said: Nice catch. That's not a hole, it's a crater LOL. Snip |
FragOutFire said: Why am I a Berserk fan? All I ever experience is pain. We are in the eclipse and Miura has sacrificed us |
HandsomeMan said: mayukachan said: Cool, so you haters have finally made me open my eyes and see how bad this show has become. I can't even enjoy this season anymore. lol I don't think it's the toxic MAL community. As a big fan of season 1, I myself have been enjoying this up until the last 2-3 episodes. It's a different studio after all, not a big surprise that this season doesn't live up to the first one. I call it the filler season myself. I'll still give this a high rating because as a standalone series it's pretty good. I think people's expectations are just way too high coming from season 1. Yeah, I still like it, but I'm starting to see why people are giving it low ratings and saying this show is puke-worthy. haha I guess the recent episodes haven't been as great. :S |
PriestSlayer said: deadoptimist said: You have a good point, this season has been incredibly entertaining though.Snip I'd be willing to overlook many of the plotholes, if visuals, action, music, characters or dialogues had been really good, but it seems to me that this season is lacking in these departments too, especially in comparision with the first one. I felt a bit hypocritical for criticizing the show until now. I was able to watch the show at least, but I broke somewhere along this episode... It was really hard to finish it. Well, I don't mean that there is anything wrong with watching PP2, of course. And it sure is entertaining to discuss it. Still it's worrying and a bit sad that they couldn't hold the bar. |
Journey_95 said: classic Psycho Pass I always found myself rooting for the villian (first Makishima and now even Kamui) don't know if thats a good thing or bad thing though It's a good thing. The villains in Psycho Pass are the only ones making a difference in its corrupted world. |
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| I'm just annoyed it's actually getting done in 11 episodes. |
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| Omg Kougami encouraged Akane from breaking down to the Abyss. Don't let them win That includes you stupid Tougane ..ugh never in my life I hated a real bad guy but him ugh I HATE HIM for really killing Akane grandma ,and walking around smiling think he will paint her black. I glad Kirito appeared and judged Tougane ...but dam 769 way past the limit "Begone pitch black soul" That cliffhanger Kirito better have shot him and Akane better not have but in,for so help me. Kirito I love him ,kill Sakuya Tougane that is all I ask. Instead of tainting Akane black. Freakin Mika ,she should feel guilty because she is |
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tanteiRE said: Journey_95 said: classic Psycho Pass I always found myself rooting for the villian (first Makishima and now even Kamui) don't know if thats a good thing or bad thing though It's a good thing. The villains in Psycho Pass are the only ones making a difference in its corrupted world. I noticed that too,I love and miss Makishima Kirito is just judging Sybl for what they did to him in the season of hell. In psycho pass route for the bad guys trying to change the world. |
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| what the fuck is with that crime coefficient??? 769? wow that sure is high. and KOGAMI <3 |
konatachan80 said: Turning off the dominator while its owner is clear would be to admit that it isn't "perfect" as defined by itself. Kasei didn't threaten to revoke dominator access, but threatened to revoke her inspector rights, which I assume is the same as (or similar to) being fired. But letting Akane go with her knowledge... The difference between regular scanners and the dominator was (partly) explained at S1, ep 3, 09:01. I guess they're using the dominator's "cut in line" property to "overload" the system. In other words, if everyone tries to cut in line at the same time..maybe it won't be able to handle it without utilizing a backup/bypass route, which was their intention. - If it starts judging collective entities then Sybil itself can be judged. - If it can be judged, then Sybil won't be a group of criminally asymptsomething brains anymore, just a collection of criminals. - If it is a collection of criminals, then it won't be able to judge people correctly, hence all its judgments are wrong. I would guess the last item kind of negates why it was needed in the first place. Not to mention that if it can be judged, then it (and its brains) could be a target for execution according to its own judgment. Sybil admitted in S1 that it isn't perfect. The fact that it has to resort to blowing up Kamui instead of judging him (cos it can't) is admitting that it isn't perfect as well. Clutch those straws.....clutch them tight. Anyone can clearly see the blatant contradictions with what Sybil is doing and the plotholes they create, don't try to rationalize or excuse them.....you can't. |
[color=blue] [/color]If Sybil can't interfere with the workings of the dominators, she can't take away Akane's access. If she can interfere, she should've taken the rights from the rogue inspector and Kamui. And she should be able to block dominator pointed at Tougane. But it shouldn't even be a question, since it was shown in season 1 that she can influence dominators. For the simple reason that sybil needs to leave the dominators on to locate kamui but also is always auto updating itself by using the data when domanators are used. That also goes back to the omnipotence paradox as well [color=blue]The problem is that the new writer doesn't understand, what the setting is about. I usually don't like to make such assumptions, but it's kinda obvious. [/color]PP was exploring the contradiction between personal freedom and the needs of safe society. There is that idea that maybe humans would be happier if they were stripped of the need to make choices, made into a happy controlled herd. In fiction people usually choose freedom, but in fact the choice and the matter of things are not that simple. Urobuchi likes to introduce such conflicts in his works, but he never solves them (no wonder, since they are more or less unsolveable). How so, the author shows a system that was designed to serve human kind but because it become almost way too perfect it pushed out the human factor and randomness out of it thus you have antagonist such as Shogo and Kamui who are fighting it!! [color=blue]Now I understand that in this season they had to break this status quo, but they instead broke the logic behing the fictional world. They made Sybil into a person. She now is a villain, who acts randomly and on a whim, not a system. She even has a son for goddamn sake! [/color]This can be explained in two ways. 1) Tougane's mom hijacked the robotic body for herself. But then Sybil should've intervened - it's not that this body is their only way to interact with the world. 2) The writer f** up. alol bro you are mistaking grandly, sybil is not a person but a collection of a plethora of super criminal with great assymptomatic designs, that system use a robotic body as the physical connection to the human plane, thus they switch you can be singularly represented at times or act all at once, remember in season one it was 2 or personalities that singularly show up in that chief police whatever her name is. Thus togane Mom did not hijack the boy, she is part of the body thus it is a common process [color=blue]Well, I can't say that they haven't brought up interesting topics. [/color]Control via medication is a logical step in their society. They could've introduced a drug that changed their world. Psychologists must have a lot of power over people's lives. So people of this profession could've played an important part. The topic of illegal migration and international relations could've been used (they will do it in the movie though). Sybil coul've changed. They could reveal their secret to work more efficiently and stir unrest. They could face inner conflict between brains. The logical step would be to make them limit people too much. Or maybe they could've really become too self-serving. But they shouldn't act as a one moustache-twirling villain, a stupid one to boot. My friend this is only an anime and as great as it is it cannot explore everything but this is a continuation of season in which it is clearly made ut to understand that japan is the only nation in the world to have developed and to be run by sybil. Through sybil they have achieved relative peace, prosperity and it reached food self sufficiency, which is why Shogo wanted to break the food chain so Japan would reach out the the foreign world. Japan/Psycho pass universe seems rather isolated from the rest of the world, they seem to be reluctant of associating with foreigners because they might be adding another surplus charge to sybil and disturb that civil and economic order.But then in season 2 kamui does use some foreigners aka immigrants' body parts [color=blue] In the latest episodes they also try to make Sybil look like a god. But it comes out of nowhere. First of all, it's an especially cheap way to approach the problem. If something is deified than things have gone too far. But they haven't demonstrated in a sufficient way that Sybil is actually viewed as a god. From what we know she is seen as a system beneficial to everyone. People do not claim that she is omnipotent, they just have agreed some time ago that she is more efficient than a human government. So I don't think that the omnipotence paradox has anything to do with the situation. [/color]As well as the problem with Kamui. Ok, he is abnormal, so what? They even know why, so what is there to worry about for Sybil? It's not that collective intelligences will start to appear on their own. What do you mean it comes outa nowhere, sybil was established as almost omnipotent since season (gearing us toward the omnipotence paradox thesis) and sybil is not a she but an "IT". You stated the whole plot of the series when you said People do not claim that she is omnipotent, they just have agreed some time ago that she is more efficient than a human government. So I don't think that the omnipotence paradox has anything to do with the situation. Sybil was established because it solved major socio-political issues in the PP universe but then it literally took control of everything enslaving the ones who created thus becoming omnipotent but then people like shogo and kirito rose up to challenge it proving it was omnipotent not thus the Paradox, that is exactly how it is. The problem with kirito, actually here what summarizes PP, it is about liberty and freedom right? season one was about liberty of the individual and now season 2 is about freedom as in a group hence you will notice how often it's teams involved (team 1 team 2, division 1 and 2), kamui is made up of multiple body parts, kamui works with a team etc... Kamui cannot be judged because he represents a group of people and sybil is not willing or rather cannot comprehend the notion or societal freedom that stems rationally from individual freedom the most it can do is compound and quantify "are zone stress" , Kamui is problem indeed. [color=blue] And they f**d up the setting. Why do they use mobile phones of the same tech level, as we do? It's important to show progress in fiction about future. Where are the holographic clothes and houses, the VN chatrooms?]Why are enforcers so relaxed? They are effectively prisoners, whose future is to be killed on dutuy or to retire to a closed-off facility? The tension between these bitter guys and inspectors, who were elite but couldn't do their work by themselves, was what made relationships in season 1 so fun to watch. Where is it now? [/color]Lol you are way too nostalgic, most of it was explored in season one, this here season is shorter hence we are going straight onto the plot and its ramifications lol. [color=blue]And the plot twists are so forced... There is suddenly a whole cell of Kamui's followers despite total control. People are exchanged for illegal immigrants [/color]one sentence THE OMNIPOtENT PARADOX |
Hiroshi_obakunDec 12, 2014 10:30 PM
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| Okay, can we please talk about this face? Because this face will give me nightmares. |
SimmianPrime said: konatachan80 said: Turning off the dominator while its owner is clear would be to admit that it isn't "perfect" as defined by itself. Kasei didn't threaten to revoke dominator access, but threatened to revoke her inspector rights, which I assume is the same as (or similar to) being fired. But letting Akane go with her knowledge... The difference between regular scanners and the dominator was (partly) explained at S1, ep 3, 09:01. I guess they're using the dominator's "cut in line" property to "overload" the system. In other words, if everyone tries to cut in line at the same time..maybe it won't be able to handle it without utilizing a backup/bypass route, which was their intention. - If it starts judging collective entities then Sybil itself can be judged. - If it can be judged, then Sybil won't be a group of criminally asymptsomething brains anymore, just a collection of criminals. - If it is a collection of criminals, then it won't be able to judge people correctly, hence all its judgments are wrong. I would guess the last item kind of negates why it was needed in the first place. Not to mention that if it can be judged, then it (and its brains) could be a target for execution according to its own judgment. Sybil admitted in S1 that it isn't perfect. The fact that it has to resort to blowing up Kamui instead of judging him (cos it can't) is admitting that it isn't perfect as well. Clutch those straws.....clutch them tight. Anyone can clearly see the blatant contradictions with what Sybil is doing and the plotholes they create, don't try to rationalize or excuse them.....you can't. I want to point out that many of the proposed problems that you and many others have pointed out are debatable rather than fully rational or irrational. Things such as why Sibyl did this and that, or why havnt they shut down the dominators have either been answered or have an implied answer. Whether one buys the reasoning becomes extremely subjective but trying to enforce your opinion as to how others are wasting their time defending the series is rather uncalled for |
| Anime gave me more life lessons than school |
fujioka-san said: Duoprism said: My take on this season is that the new director basically misinterpreted what was good about S1 and tried to amplify those elements in S2. Considering Urobuchi is directing the movie, this season basically just feels like filler to add hype for it; which basically ends up making PP S2 feel pretty worthless. Not saying it's terrible and complete trash; there are definitely times where I felt that same rush of adrenaline you get from watching PP S1 (and this episode is definitely one of the better ones in the season), but when compared with S1, there are significantly more plot holes, questionable plot elements, fairly negligible character development and poor pacing. They probably could have done a lot better job with this with maybe a few more episodes (two cour feels too long for this plot line) but I guess this is how the cookie crumbles. When the movie comes out, I'm probably going to consider that S2 never happened in terms of canon. ^ This. My thoughts exactly. Well nothing ever really happened in PP2 except 3 new bishounen characters which remarkable because dammmnnn BL PP doujinshi are something. Was hoping this season will at least put something related the aftermath of Makishima's murder and Kougami's escape, even for one episode because the bondage scene and hallucinations aren't doing much in his views. |
Alone on a Friday night? Remember that DIO did nothing wrong! |
SoundMatch said: 769! Jesus what kind of porn does he get off from? I wonder if they're ever gonna actually reveal the algorithm for the score. LMAO! |
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lilypippili said: I don't think Tougane will die, I think the chief will override the order so he won't die (like how she made the dominator become a decomposer last season, except reversed.) maybe then the rest of the Sybil system will realize Touganes mom is letting her personal feelings influence her actions and send someone else up to be the chief :o Yea,but I think I heard the Dominator being fired when the ending started.Or is it just me?SInce Tougane was in movement while the shot was fired,there's a chance he can dodge it... :D |
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| So,can anyone shed some light on the collective identity judgement? |
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zerriet said: SimmianPrime said: Sybil admitted in S1 that it isn't perfect. The fact that it has to resort to blowing up Kamui instead of judging him (cos it can't) is admitting that it isn't perfect as well. Clutch those straws.....clutch them tight. Anyone can clearly see the blatant contradictions with what Sybil is doing and the plotholes they create, don't try to rationalize or excuse them.....you can't. I want to point out that many of the proposed problems that you and many others have pointed out are debatable rather than fully rational or irrational. Things such as why Sibyl did this and that, or why havnt they shut down the dominators have either been answered or have an implied answer. Whether one buys the reasoning becomes extremely subjective but trying to enforce your opinion as to how others are wasting their time defending the series is rather uncalled for You make some good points. I'm obviously not a fan of S2, but I think you touched on the driving force of contention in this thread: believability. I can manufacture any number of pseudo-scientifically conceivable ways for pigs to fly tomorrow, but its explanation hardly guarantees good writing, nor will it find ease (if expected to be taken seriously) in entertaining an audience of evolutionary biologists. In the end, it isn't whether plot points are logical, but whether they're reasonable. And that...will be totally subject to the whims/biases of the individual viewer's tastes, experience, education, et al. I'd also admit that, when seen from a certain perspective, many of the complaints/questions raised by critics here actually can be 'logically' explained. It's just that those explanations aren't reasonable (to them) in the context of established rules, character motivations, the framework of its society, previous events, etc. I'd also say I'm in 100% agreement with your last statement. Shitposting, forcing opinions down the throats of fans, and asserting that they're wasting their time defending their viewpoints is bad form. While many of us come off as abrasive, I think it's rooted in disappointment in the series rather than disgust of its defenders. Remember, many contrarians here were once avid fanboys of PP1 LOL. |
DouluoDec 13, 2014 3:29 AM
| damn cliffhangers, so hyped up for next episode |
Hiroshi_obakun said: First of all thanks for such a long and detailed answer. The use of color in quotations helps a lot too, so I’ll try to follow your example. I must say that what makes these conversations especially difficult is that while many things can be somewhat explained by applying to the in-world logic, they don’t function like that in the narrative of a work of art. In my reasoning I lean more on that second way of interpretation. Thus when I write that Sybil is a person I mean that she acts like one, while I understand that her status in the fictional world hasn’t changed. Chief Kaisei is still supposed to represent impartial and inhuman system, but she acts like a human –acts irrational and inconsistent, insists she has a son, experiences fear and seeks sadistic pleasure. On the other hand, there are not many (if any) scenes, that explore the workings od Sybil as a system. While season 1 showed us how people care for their PP, how work is assigned and was pretty convincing in picturing a world of total control, this season doesn’t touch any of such subjects. Instead we see huge holes in security and people who are mostly unconcerned about their PP (for example, Mika doesn’t seek counseling, it even make some of the watchers think that she is criminally asymptomatic). All these factors make me think that Sybil is pictured more as a person in this season. Hiroshi_obakun said: For the simple reason that sybil needs to leave the dominators on to locate kamui but also is always auto updating itself by using the data when domanators are used. That also goes back to the omnipotence paradox as well It doesn’t seem to me that the topic of tracking was developed sufficiently. Unless they explain how dominators can be turned offline or disconnected from Sybil, it looks like she didn’t use this ability. Otherwise they’d be hunting Kamui non-stop, not only reacting when he stirs trouble. Hiroshi_obakun said: How so, the author shows a system that was designed to serve human kind but because it become almost way too perfect it pushed out the human factor and randomness out of it thus you have antagonist such as Shogo and Kamui who are fighting it!! Well, that’s the easiest approach. I am sure that Urobuchi is able to go deeper. People have been seceding their freedoms in exchange for safety for a longest time. And absolute personal freedom is impossible in normal society. Don’t you think that security cameras everywhere belong to the same logic that is behind Sybil? She maximizes general happiness of her subjects but sacrifices some people for it. While it seems detestable from ideological point of view, from practical point of view it’s what always happens. Hiroshi_obakun said: that system use a robotic body as the physical connection to the human plane, thus they switch you can be singularly represented at times or act all at once, remember in season one it was 2 or personalities that singularly show up in that chief police whatever her name is. Thus togane Mom did not hijack the boy, she is part of the body thus it is a common process Ah, so I remembered it wrong. I thought that they simply switched brains at one point. I guess I was mistaken. But in this case it is even stranger that she insists on calling Tougane son, expresses characteristic feminine traits (she colors her nails with gusto) and seems to push a very personal agenda. Her personality seems stable too. Hiroshi_obakun said: My friend this is only an anime and as great as it is it cannot explore everything but this is a continuation of season in which it is clearly made ut to understand that japan is the only nation in the world to have developed and to be run by sybil. Nah, I didn’t mean that all of those things should’ve been included in the season. I just wanted to give credit to them for bringing up topics relevant for the setting. Any of those would’ve made a good plot without half of the rubbish we see in it now. Hiroshi_obakun said: What do you mean it comes outa nowhere, sybil was established as almost omnipotent since season (gearing us toward the omnipotence paradox thesis) and sybil is not a she but an "IT". You stated the whole plot of the series when you said People do not claim that she is omnipotent, they just have agreed some time ago that she is more efficient than a human government. So I don't think that the omnipotence paradox has anything to do with the situation. Sybil was established because it solved major socio-political issues in the PP universe but then it literally took control of everything enslaving the ones who created thus becoming omnipotent but then people like shogo and kirito rose up to challenge it proving it was omnipotent not thus the Paradox, that is exactly how it is. The problem with kirito, actually here what summarizes PP, it is about liberty and freedom right? season one was about liberty of the individual and now season 2 is about freedom as in a group hence you will notice how often it's teams involved (team 1 team 2, division 1 and 2), kamui is made up of multiple body parts, kamui works with a team etc... Kamui cannot be judged because he represents a group of people and sybil is not willing or rather cannot comprehend the notion or societal freedom that stems rationally from individual freedom the most it can do is compound and quantify "are zone stress" , Kamui is problem indeed. Sorry, but I don’t see most of these points as relevant. (Ah… And the use of the personal pronoun is because of the interference of my native language, sorry again. Though chief Kaisei influences it too. :D It seems that I’ve messed up in the earlier parts of this post, but it is a pain to fix it, so, please excuse me.) Sybil is powerful, but where has it been shown that it is omnipotent? It’s not that it can do anything – it doesn’t cure people or anything. Btw I am not even sure hat it controls all of the drones. Does she? It can’t do a lot of things, not only judge Kamui. Even now we have many things, where tech is more effective than human. Do we deify computers? Sure, they affect our lives greatly and sometimes they’re so important, but do we deify them? I don’t think so. Our government consists of people, but we face it as a corporate entity that controls our lives. It is bigger than separate human and thus inhuman. Do we see it as a deity? Do we think it is omnipotent? I believe this is what Sybil is to them, at least in season 1. I understand that people like to deify things, but if they have already reached this level it was not shown. Actually, not enough time has passed for it. Also even if people do see it as a god (which, again, doesn’t seem the case), I am not sure why it itself would think so and be troubled by not being able to do something, especially if it is a unique case and has a good explanation for it. (Actually, if Sybil knew of Kamui, why didn’t it keep an eye on him?) Hiroshi_obakun said: Lol you are way too nostalgic, most of it was explored in season one, this here season is shorter hence we are going straight onto the plot and its ramifications lol. I liked those things a lot. I’d like to see at least some of them again. >< Or to see some scenes where they show how everyday life works in their society. I liked the scenes where Akane met her friends, it told so much without actually using exposition. And I still find strange that Mika doesn’t use help for her PP or that the tension between inspectors and enforcers is almost nonexistent. |
| that was amazing. up till date this show overall has been amazing and i think the next ep is gonna to take my socks off |
"Urushibara Ruka. The mannerisms and voice of a woman... No... More feminine than any woman. But he's a guy. Taller than Mayuri, but so very thin... But he's a guy. Looks great in a miko outfit... But he's a guy. It's already twilight And yet, it's so hot. The cicadas are crying. But... He's a guy." |
| I don't hate this season I just don't like it because it's inferior to season 1 in most ways. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Great build episode to the last episode next week, Kougami appear - Akane you get to pull things together :) one of the best episode this season had and that cliffhanger cant wait to next week episode. Im not at fault, Im not at fault....Im not at fault, Im not at fault.... - it does your fault :P |
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EchelonHunt said: Okay, can we please talk about this face? Because this face will give me nightmares. That face is the only thing I look forward to every week in this dumb anime. |
| So Kamui wants to see if Sibyl can be judged by its own rules? If it doesn't get judged by its own rules then Kamui and Sibyl are alike yet different.Then,in that case,it will be completely OK for Kamui to destroy the system and similarly that's what the system is trying to do to Kamui.It's a race against time and so far Kamui has been the dominant one.Sibyl has Tougane as his trump card.If Tougane ends up dead then I guess Sibyl will have no choice but to accept the concept of "Collective Identity Judgement".In this way Kamui will be acknowledeged in the Society and Sibyl would be able to be judged.But then Sibyl would be identified,as whole,a criminal,which it does not want.And that would mean the end of Sibyl.That's why Kamui can not exist.So,it means that Kamui was smart enough to think that Sibyl is just like him.If it were not then Sibyl would have judged Kamui.Either way,it's gonna end up in Sibyl's destruction.Damn this omnipotence paradox.I don't know if what the hell I am saying is even correct or not but this is what I think: 1) Sibyl and Kamui are alike.Sibyl made up of different brains.Kamui made of different brains and organs. 2) Both of them can not be judged because they are not individual beings. 3) Kamui wants acknowledgement in the society regardless if he is acknowledged as a criminal and wants "Collective Identity Judgement" while Sibyl absolutely detests the idea of this concept and does not want itself to be recognized as a criminal. |
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deadoptimist said: I must say that what makes these conversations especially difficult is that while many things can be somewhat explained by applying to the in-world logic, they don’t function like that in the narrative of a work of art. In my reasoning I lean more on that second way of interpretation. Thus when I write that Sybil is a person I mean that she acts like one, while I understand that her status in the fictional world hasn’t changed. Chief Kaisei is still supposed to represent impartial and inhuman system, but she acts like a human –acts irrational and inconsistent, insists she has a son, experiences fear and seeks sadistic pleasure. On the other hand, there are not many (if any) scenes, that explore the workings od Sybil as a system. Thus the omnipotent Paradox, clearly Akane and joji keep stipulating the dogma of such heory, there lies your answer While season 1 showed us how people care for their PP, how work is assigned and was pretty convincing in picturing a world of total control, this season doesn’t touch any of such subjects. Instead we see huge holes in security and people who are mostly unconcerned about their PP (for example, Mika doesn’t seek counseling, it even make some of the watchers think that she is criminally asymptomatic). All these factors make me think that Sybil is pictured more as a person in this season. The story is very much linear thus a continuation of season, due to time and budget constrictions that would be redundant also you have yo remember that this season focuses on societal freedon contrarily to first season... Overall it is better that way for the plays right along in Mika being in bed with sybil as the series moves forward [color=blue]It doesn’t seem to me that the topic of tracking was developed sufficiently. Unless they explain how dominators can be turned offline or disconnected from Sybil, it looks like she didn’t use this ability. Otherwise they’d be hunting Kamui non-stop, not only reacting when he stirs trouble [/color]They usually have no idea when it comes to Kirito's whereabouts until the dominators he stole are put into use, back track on the shown episodes and you will see. Sybil isnt turning off the dominators because of the Paradox and its own arrogance. [color=blue]Well, that’s the easiest approach. I am sure that Urobuchi is able to go deeper. People have been seceding their freedoms in exchange for safety for a longest time. And absolute personal freedom is impossible in normal society. Don’t you think that security cameras everywhere belong to the same logic that is behind Sybil? She maximizes general happiness of her subjects but sacrifices some people for it. While it seems detestable from ideological point of view, from practical point of view it’s what always happens. [/color]That my friend is a social contract shout out to jean jacques rousseau, season 2 is about societal freedom compared to season where individual placement and accomplishments were primordial. Here kamui represents literally an entity of people aka a group, Urobuchi focuses of the inability to judge at such higher levels thus the introduction of the paradox to show that sybil is fallible and was never really that omnipotent to begin with [color=blue]Ah, so I remembered it wrong. I thought that they simply switched brains at one point. I guess I was mistaken. But in this case it is even stranger that she insists on calling Tougane son, expresses characteristic feminine traits (she colors her nails with gusto) and seems to push a very personal agenda. Her personality seems stable too. [/color]Konatachan80 asnwered you as such Kasei consists of a single brain from Sibyl, and can be exchanged whenever they want to (taking turns). Remember Kasei commented on "So it is my turn now" (or something like that) in S1. While in Kasei that brain isn't connected to the Sibyl network unless she/it connects using the cable (S1, ep 19, 15:11). Even that doesn't give her/it full access to the network as shown in S1 a short time before Akane was "invited". "I would like to go back there once and check the consensus." (S1, ep 19, 15:30) and so on [color=blue]Sybil is powerful, but where has it been shown that it is omnipotent? It’s not that it can do anything – it doesn’t cure people or anything. Btw I am not even sure hat it controls all of the drones. Does she? It can’t do a lot of things, not only judge Kamui. [/color]It is assuned omnipotent ti a certain degree because it is the driving force and main governing body of the series, like this centrifuge force around which everything and anything revolves thus in that connotation it is absolute therefore omnipotent. Even now we have many things, where tech is more effective than human. Do we deify computers? Sure, they affect our lives greatly and sometimes they’re so important, but do we deify them? I don’t think so. Our government consists of people, but we face it as a corporate entity that controls our lives. It is bigger than separate human and thus inhuman. Do we see it as a deity? Do we think it is omnipotent? I believe this is what Sybil is to them, at least in season 1. lol so that is exactly the plot of season 2, a group, a community a society that is rebelling against almighty sybil, you just stated the plot or the dogma of kamui, awesome Also even if people do see it as a god (which, again, doesn’t seem the case), I am not sure why it itself would think so and be troubled by not being able to do something, especially if it is a unique case and has a good explanation for it. (Actually, if Sybil knew of Kamui, why didn’t it keep an eye on him?) that damn paradox again, just like shogo whom sybil could not judge, kirito is an anomaly something that threatens sybil and the funny thing is that kamui was somewhat created by sybil lol. Sybil is somehow denying kirito's existence but kamui is reminding it that he is is alive , that collectively we are stronger than our individualities |
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hassan0297 said: So Kamui wants to see if Sibyl can be judged by its own rules? If it doesn't get judged by its own rules then Kamui and Sibyl are alike yet different.Then,in that case,it will be completely OK for Kamui to destroy the system and similarly that's what the system is trying to do to Kamui.It's a race against time and so far Kamui has been the dominant one.Sibyl has Tougane as his trump card.If Tougane ends up dead then I guess Sibyl will have no choice but to accept the concept of "Collective Identity Judgement".In this way Kamui will be acknowledeged in the Society and Sibyl would be able to be judged.But then Sibyl would be identified,as whole,a criminal,which it does not want.And that would mean the end of Sibyl.That's why Kamui can not exist.So,it means that Kamui was smart enough to think that Sibyl is just like him.If it were not then Sibyl would have judged Kamui.Either way,it's gonna end up in Sibyl's destruction.Damn this omnipotence paradox.I don't know if what the hell I am saying is even correct or not but this is what I think: 1) Sibyl and Kamui are alike.Sibyl made up of different brains.Kamui made of different brains and organs. 2) Both of them can not be judged because they are not individual beings. 3) Kamui wants acknowledgement in the society regardless if he is acknowledged as a criminal and wants "Collective Identity Judgement" while Sibyl absolutely detests the idea of this concept and does not want itself to be recognized as a criminal. fantastic mate, you got it.... |
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| Wow. They weren't kidding when they said "highest crime coefficient ever recorded," were they. My jaw literally dropped. Finally some Kougami but only as a hallucination to fire Akane up so that kinda sucked. Sibyl's shitting their pants in fear of being outed and Mika's trying to shift the blame for the death of Tsunemori Aoi. |
| 死ねカス国に帰れ |
| i've really disliked this season so far, basically just waiting until the real sequel comes out next month (movie) but this episode still did a good job of making me want to see the end. and really, togane's psycho pass is insane. |
| Everything is going on chaos. I really wonder how they will end this. But 769 crime coefficient? So freaking high, the highest we have before was like 300-400 something. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| aannnddd it's all going to hit the fan next week. Still don't like Mika, wish she'd been the one hit with the denominator. Also NOT FAIR how they keep showing Kougami, but he or at least his apparition manages to calm Akane.. |
KiraMustDie said: This is a woman who saw her best friend get her throat slit right in front of her, except there she was in a situation where she did have the power to save her, and here it's simply coincidental, and you know what happened? She had a few days to mourn, and simply came back ready and able to catch Makishima, even having to relive the memory of her friend's death, and still come out fine. Even when she had the opportunity to kill him, she chose to uphold the law and take him in. Regardless whether it's a family member or not (also note that we had more screentime with Yuki than we did the grandma, who was simply introduced so they can just kill her off), if this had somehow blackened Akane's hue, it would've been an insult to that character and everything she's been through, and even the idea that they thought this would ruin her is kinda insulting. Also, Sibyl's actions continue to make less and less sense. They just let this one woman in charge, and let her have free reign to do whatever she wants? Which is having her son turn their own inspectors into latent criminals? At least with Touma in S1 that was to convince Makishima to join them, so it was to their benefit even though he declined, but here? It doesn't even seem like Sibyl is working together like they should be. Why is everyone saying that? I admit, the screentime her Grandmother got was a lot shorter, but her grandma didn´t just pop out of nowhere. it was already hinted at, in season 1, that the person Akane shares a deep connection with is her grandmother. When she met Saiga-sensei for the first time, he analyzed her, telling her that it seems her grandmother treated her with great affection and that she´s quite the "grandmother girl". So when I heard about her grandmother in season 2, I thought that we´d finally meet her, seeing as her relationship was hinted at back then in season 1 like that. Maybe it´s because I read a lot of books and have watched quite a few shows and movies, but that hint was more than enough to establish for myself that Akane really cares for her granny and that she has been influenced by her a lot. Screentime isn´t the only way to establish character connections. Again, might have to do with how many different forms of storytelling you have encountered in your life. It was pretty clear to me that one of the big pillars of Akane´s healthy mind and soul was her loving connection to her grandmother and them trying to cripple that pillar to see if it´s one of the foundations her clear hue rests upon was something that made sense to me. As for Sybil´s actions, I get most of them. The only one I do not understand is, why they did not just kill Shisui, saying she "went rogue". After all they killed Kagari without even as much as a second thought, what does it matter that "her hue is clear?" - just tell everyone who might ask or question the execution of Shisui with "She tried to run, she was an enforcer after all. End of story." I get why they experimented on Kamui, why they created Tougane, why they want to work together to cloud Akane (she´s a thorn in their side, a thorn they can´t get rid of in similiar fashion to Ginoza or Kagari, whom they´ve demoted to a "mere" enforcer and had the latter killed, as Akane just won´t get clouded and is a "model citizen" through and through according to her Psycho Pass) I also get why they do not act hastily and try to evaluate what Kamui plans to do, as they A) want to catch everyone involved, killing Kamui the moment they see him won´t achieve that and B) they are interested to see how EXACTLY Kamui plans to "topple" the Sybil System - after all they think the system as it is now, even with it´s flaws, is unstoppable and if Kamui finds a possibility to take down the system and they prevent it, they can take countermeasures to get rid of the flaw Kamui exposed, making it even more "flawless". |
Hiroshi_obakun said: Sorry that I don’t answer to each point – I’ve finally realized what makes me disagree. Let’s look at the parties involved. We have Kamui, whose brain is made of a bunch of brains, but it is unclear, whether he is a singular personality or an agglomeration. Actually he seems to have a sole personality – there’re no things in his behavior that suggest otherwise. More importantly he seems to have only one head and thus a normal amount of brain-mass, so how could parts of brains retain intact personalities of their previous owners? And if he is a new emergent personality how is he different from, say, someone with trauma-induced brain damage? Then we have Sybil, which is a bunch of interconnected criminally asymptomatic brains (left intact). As far as I understand, it doesn’t have a singular personality. And then there is their society that consists of different people with different personalities that are not particularly connected. Social groups work more or less in the same way. These are completely different thing. Judging Kamui won’t affect anything. Judging Sybil hardly seems possible, since it doesn’t have one personality and all her members are criminally asymptomatic. If Kamui is a singular being, he can either be judged after some tweaks, is a mistake and will be eliminated (which won’t mean anything for the system, since he is unique and artificial) or he is another criminally asymptomatic person and will be absorbed into Sybil. If he is akin to Sybil… Well, he can’t be, because he has only parts of brains and those were not all criminally asymptomatic. So him being judged doesn’t mean that Sybil will be judged too. Especially since there is no indication that it itself is interested in solving the omnipotence paradox. Technical limitations are technical limitations and it is not a god nor claims to be. In this episode they mentioned it having consequences for society as a whole, since a group can be judged, but it is unclear why it would and more importantly what difference it will it make to people. I can think only of Sybil wiping away whole groups now, and it would be only worse. Only judging Sybil’s priorities may be a good idea. But then it is hardly technically possible (it is not a person, its parts are asymptomatic, this can actually create an overload). It will have to judge itself and it can simply refuse to do so (they are sentient and human) or think that they’re right. Lastly, will it even be made public or matter in a long run? Sybil’s goal is not to be good, but to run things efficiently. The only use I can think of is that they will make Sybil see itself how ugly it has become, but it is too idealistic to believe that it will be affected. Especially considering that it is made of psychopaths. |
deadoptimistDec 13, 2014 12:41 PM
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