Damsel In Distress Cliché Ruined The Show

migohunter said:
There are two other Lisa threads that should cater to your needs, why another?

BRK25 said:
And another Death Note reference. Idiots, idiots everywhere.

BRK25 said:
I just hate it when we compare to Death Note cause really, this is far from it. We had near perfect humans going on and no emotions. They were machines, these are humans. And Lisa's as human as we are going to get from an anime and we're hating her cause she's like us?

I don't understand it.

MajorZero said:
If humans are boring, underdeveloped and one-dimensional entities then I have to agree with you.

migohunter said:
There should be a Zankyou no Terror drinking game where you take a shot whenever someone on this forum calls Lisa useless.

html said:
Fuck Lisa

FrozenRemains said:
Nope,the show was not ruined because of a romance subplot.

BlueXRam said:
#StopHatingOnLisa

html said:
Fuck Lisa

Sapewloth said:
#LeaveLisaAlone

mayukachan said:

We are boring if you put us in anime. I think the characters need more monologues of their thoughts because we won't think much of them if they don't show us their thinking.

danae17 said:
how is she generic and stereotypical? There aren't many girls like her in anime. She is not cute, sexy, funny, tsundere or anything like that.

Flashoftheback said:
#MurderLisaToDeath

Rannta said:
Lisa isn't the problem. Her presence was justified until.... five appears. It's five who is ruining the show. Poor character design, bad work of megumi han, absurd situations, etc.

Ratohnhaketon said:
Spoilers up to ep 9 -

Not to say Zankyou is bad though, I'm still thoroughly enjoying the thrilling atmosphere. It's just that this really does rely on its production values and everyone hopping on Watanabe's d to cover up the so-so story and lacking characters.

danae17 said:
how is she generic and stereotypical? There aren't many girls like her in anime. She is not cute, sexy, funny, tsundere or anything like that.

AironicallyHuman said:
It's more like, 'Moronic White Knight In LoveLove Ruins Show By Charging After Said Damsel'. As OP said, in DN at least light just used Misa. Nine does all the thinking and has conviction, while all Twelve does is ride on his bike whilst being lead by his penis. HE EVEN WANTS TO QUIT BECAUSE OF LISA!

I was hoping both would die in the ferris wheel. That would've been a powerful scene if nothing else; much better than the cliched LAST SECOND SAVE/betrayal. Lisa is a nothing character with no role in this show, there just for anime's required '1 per anime, minimum' school girl quota. It's distracting and quite sad. Bullying/an overly protective mother served little purpose in a terrorism series but at least at start she did something other than fuck up and get captured.

I think the problem is bigger than Lisa, though: it's the writing/lack of plot. They needed to pad out an 11ep series with a support character/romance just because the child experimentation > TERRORISM WITHOUT KILLING plot was too simple. Same reason they had to throw Five in to add SOMETHING. Not enough meat.

AironicallyHuman said:
It's not so much Lisa's stupidity that angers people. The OP referenced DN/Misa because Light never acted stupidly because of Misa's stupdity. The same cannot be said of Twelve. People, like me, view her as an out of place character devaluing the series by making the series itself stray from its original purpose.

Yes: Lisa is there for an 'outsider looking in' perspective that the viewer can connect with. That's a common strategy when a series begins without outlining what, exactly, the goal of the leads is. She's there for the viewer to relate to. But it has seemingly backfired because she hasn't provided insights into the terrorist actions or connected with the other characters beyond a superficial 'children on the edge of society' thing. There's little for a bullied girl with a controlling mother to share with orphans experimented on, and that lead to a forced romance subplot.

NebulaC3I said:


The thought might have crossed my mind a time or two.

migohunter said:
There should be a Zankyou no Terror drinking game where you take a shot whenever someone on this forum calls Lisa useless.

AironicallyHuman said:
It's more like, 'Moronic White Knight In LoveLove Ruins Show By Charging After Said Damsel'.

BRK25 said:
Okay, let me shed light on this.

Twelve was never with the plan like Nine was. Nine wished nothing more than to bring those who wronged him and Twelve to Light.

Yet, when Twelve speaks with Nine about the plans in episode three, he never said we as a team. Twelve said what are YOU(NINE) going to do if they don't find this bomb?

Episode five: YOU(NINE) are putting a lot of trust in the detective.

Why didn't he say WE?

The only time was when him and Nine would have been labeled mass murderers. Only because it'd be them.

Twelve's a lackey, an accomplice and Twelve likes to explore. Watch him and how he interacts with all of the students and speaking with others.

He's doing his own thing while Nine's committed strictly on the plan.

Twelve's not Yagami. Twelve's a character who's far more human than anyone else in the show when it comes to experiments.

Yagami abused and made use of everyone that eh could, his mother, his sister, his father even. He was a heartless monster and we have characters that have morals as opposed to a prick who saved himself more than anyone else.

So when Twelve meets Lisa, he couldn't help get himself attached. From the bullying and the eyes reminiscent of the institution, he decides against Nine's wishes to meddle.

Lisa once again, is a human, she's the viewer and placed in the show. Were we expecting a Remy from Black Lagoon? Faye from Cowboy Bebop? No, she's a human being. And we hate her for acting like one?

Comedy

Twelve's actions are justified BECAUSE he had shown little interest in Terrorism in the first place. Nine pulled the strings and Twelve helped them out to have it work.

Lisa's stupid because everyone else around her are geniuses and we'd be dumbasses too if we were in her position touching and feeling shit around us. She doesn't wish to be a burden and can't find a place to be in the whole world in this anime

Twelve wants to quit because he's noticing the dangers of not only Lisa but others who must be terrified. He knows once they go into action, there's no turning back. It's over for all of them.

When Lisa managed to be accepted in Shpinx's home, we get more conversations about their pasts, we get to see their home and what not. This whole show relies on the subtle themes and dialogue to show progress and not a fucking outline as shounen shows do now a days.

Nine knew the consequences and worked hard to avoid the inevitable but Twelve couldn't get away.

You could say there's not much that has been done in the plot since Lisa came in and explored cause she's useless or what not. I don't think so, because she's as one said humanizing Sphinx and showing their actions are going to truly screw up the world. Twelve sees it.

As for the one anime girl school quota, Samurai Champloo/Cowboy Bebop strayed from it.

Maybe one girl per two guys ideas be fine. What, no females and people are going to say its a sausage fest? No one can be pleased entirely, someone will always nitpick and downgrade a series in some manner because it is a serious and nearly perfect plot. Is this perfect? No, far from it yet we scrutinize because we must find flaws like human beings and detracts the value on watching.

Avok said:
She's a very... "human" character. I don't see how is this bad or boring. She's a teenager girl with inner problems.

Useless? Yeah, maybe, but thats what the writers want us to think of her. She thinks that she's useless herself.

BRK25 said:


I point you to my post. Useless because she technically is. Useless to the plot? No, useless in helping? That's the writer's intention.

Thank you Orulyon

Air-Dragon said:
In summery she is a useless sideline character thrown to the front to add some humanity to 12 and 9 which it failed quite miserably at.

Orulyon said:


oh really? Did she? Well I think...actually she succeeded quite well.
The "useless" girl who was a plain commoner, an ordinary civilian that does not even understand shit of terrorism or bombs and barely knows how to fit in her own ordinary world...
I?d say she did not fail at all...lets see:
- she was able to make a high trained professionally skilled trained-to-be-a-survivor-and-killer [b]savant[/b] to get attached to her in just three episodes without needing to be ridicously beautiful, popular, skilled, intelligent, rich or trained in psychology.
This "useless sideline character" was able to make more than Five who is a master of intelligence and talent and could not secure her bff Nine who left her and ran and still has nightmares about it.
Now Lisa, the useless sideline character was able to make Twelve not just protect her and save her, but also if needed ready to give his life for her at any moment of the day.
The useless sideline character was able to become more important to Twelve than his best friend Nine with whom he lived almost his entire life. So Twelve chose the useless sideline character. You tell me: how many "useless sideline characters" in anime history were able to do this? She didnt need to do something, she didnt need to become different to achieve it, and yet still filled with flaws and unintentionally she did so much.
oh man...for a useless sideline character surely it seems to me that she was more sucessful than many other "useful main characters" in anime. Her influence in one of the main characters is so strong that not even Shibazaki who is super useful and inteligent and critical to the plot was able to surpass her move.
I would say that for a "useless sideline character" the only thing she failed miserably was to become a kickass terrorist...which btw, was not the point. The writer wanted to show an ordinary bullied schoolgirl suddenly thrown in another world. Her purpose has been said already: to humanize the guys which she achieved not just in short time but perfectly xD