Naruto: Shippuuden Episode 364 Discussion

Offline

Jul 2013

2330

judals said:

No but I have heard of the term character consistency. Being inconsistent along the story doesn't equate to development.
You really wanna start about tern angst, defending someone who hyperventilated?
Well, yes humans are complex, and to show rage in such depth reflected that perfectly. This half-assed situational despair with no build up, that happened within two scenes, was a failure in that regard.

Funny how you claim it isn't all about rage when he raged the same way Pain taunted him, (spare me the technicalities of the dialogue), in a very simple minded way.

I didn't say Naruto had to care about them, but other ninja must have. It's a good thing every one who lost someone had his own personal Hinata.

As for your question, I don't care for a 'better choice', I want better writing. With that ai'd probably be fine with Neji.

I know it's like that from the beginning. Here is the catch: kishi wants their beliefs to go head to head, but doesn't know how, so he forces moments like these to make it play out. No grace whatsoever. And quite unprofessional.

Another problem is how this is ALWAYS the plot of naruo, how is up against a parallel life-opposite decisions type of shit.

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

Jun 6, 2014 1:28 AM

#103

Offline

Dec 2009

1718

nina4life said:
I read some previous comments and just wanna ask one thing.

How the hell are Obito and Naruto similar when it comes to life experiences?

Naruto had his mother & father die to 9-tails, he was bullied, beaten, hated, lived in solitude pretty much his whole childhood and has only gotten to be accepted by the rest of the village when he saved their sorry asses.

Obito on the other hand...had his crush die in front of him.

True, maybe they both boasted same ideals, protect all friends, never give up and be ready to sacrifice your life for the ones dear to you.
But that's where their similarities end.

Actually, I am wrong now that I think of it.
Remember the scene where Hinata got "killed" by Pain and Naruto went full 9-tails mode only to be saved by his father?
I guess they're both similar in that aspect as well.

But their life experiences are not similar, in any way.
Naruto went through hell and back while Obito lost one person before going full retard mode.

It hasn't been directly stated in the anime but Obito grew up alone just like Naruto, with no parents whatsoever. Their experiences of both being considered "Losers" with the only people meaning anything to them being their team members is very apparent. Rin was Obito's light, she was literally the thing keeping him going, keeping him wanting to get stronger and competing with Kakashi.

When you lose your one attachment to the world, the thing that keeps you sane, and you watch your former best friend be the one to kill your light, then yeah you're going to have emotional trauma. Getting really sick of people belittling Obito's character because his *crush* died. It seems most of you asshats have never felt the pain of being alone and then losing one of the few things that matter.

Jun 6, 2014 1:32 AM

#104

Offline

Jul 2013

2330

nina4life said:

But their life experiences are not similar, in any way.
Naruto went through hell and back while Obito lost one person before going full retard mode.

Aside from what Jouten said, Obito was also a bit brainwashed by Madara. IIRC it hasn't been shown in the anime yet but the circumstances is actually more complex than that. Obito's tale is one of is a misunderstood betrayal.

Jun 6, 2014 3:31 AM

#105

k11chi

Offline

May 2012

2125

I always thought Hinata was one of those creeps that stalk and follow people and shit. It's not that great for her to be someone that understands Naruto the most, wish it was my nigga Lee instead. It's just Narusuke/NaruHina tease anyways.

Anyway, people don't seem to understand the real scale of this current battle, and the animation team certainly is one of those. Each of those Juubi-bijuudama was supposed to be a country buster in AOE, and there is not even a shockwave or anything coming up.

Jun 6, 2014 3:59 AM

#106

Grunbeld

Offline

Jan 2014

3077

MoeGod said:

judals said:

No but I have heard of the term character consistency. Being inconsistent along the story doesn't equate to development.
You really wanna start about tern angst, defending someone who hyperventilated?
Well, yes humans are complex, and to show rage in such depth reflected that perfectly. This half-assed situational despair with no build up, that happened within two scenes, was a failure in that regard.

Funny how you claim it isn't all about rage when he raged the same way Pain taunted him, (spare me the technicalities of the dialogue), in a very simple minded way.

I didn't say Naruto had to care about them, but other ninja must have. It's a good thing every one who lost someone had his own personal Hinata.

As for your question, I don't care for a 'better choice', I want better writing. With that ai'd probably be fine with Neji.

I know it's like that from the beginning. Here is the catch: kishi wants their beliefs to go head to head, but doesn't know how, so he forces moments like these to make it play out. No grace whatsoever. And quite unprofessional.

Another problem is how this is ALWAYS the plot of naruo, how is up against a parallel life-opposite decisions type of shit.

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" clichÃ© crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

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Jun 6, 2014 4:06 AM

#107

Offline

May 2014

5645

Jouten said:

nina4life said:
I read some previous comments and just wanna ask one thing.

How the hell are Obito and Naruto similar when it comes to life experiences?

Naruto had his mother & father die to 9-tails, he was bullied, beaten, hated, lived in solitude pretty much his whole childhood and has only gotten to be accepted by the rest of the village when he saved their sorry asses.

Obito on the other hand...had his crush die in front of him.

True, maybe they both boasted same ideals, protect all friends, never give up and be ready to sacrifice your life for the ones dear to you.
But that's where their similarities end.

Actually, I am wrong now that I think of it.
Remember the scene where Hinata got "killed" by Pain and Naruto went full 9-tails mode only to be saved by his father?
I guess they're both similar in that aspect as well.

But their life experiences are not similar, in any way.
Naruto went through hell and back while Obito lost one person before going full retard mode.

It hasn't been directly stated in the anime but Obito grew up alone just like Naruto, with no parents whatsoever. Their experiences of both being considered "Losers" with the only people meaning anything to them being their team members is very apparent. Rin was Obito's light, she was literally the thing keeping him going, keeping him wanting to get stronger and competing with Kakashi.

When you lose your one attachment to the world, the thing that keeps you sane, and you watch your former best friend be the one to kill your light, then yeah you're going to have emotional trauma. Getting really sick of people belittling Obito's character because his *crush* died. It seems most of you asshats have never felt the pain of being alone and then losing one of the few things that matter.

i think your right Jouten, the development is consistant and it's also similare to sasuke reaction after learning the truth from tobi ... hence the dojutsu evolution

ZA_WAYDJun 6, 2014 4:14 AM

Jun 6, 2014 4:21 AM

#108

Offline

Dec 2009

1718

judals said:

MoeGod said:

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

Naruto never did find the solution with Pain, what was determined with his interactions with Nagato was that one day he would find the answer, and that Nagato should put his faith in him. He didn't fully develop his answer to what he would do if he lost his friends until this very episode, and we'll see it in full effect next week as well. Also you keep pulling out the bad writing card, and how Neji was a bad choice, but you're not providing examples as to why this is bad or what choices would have been better from a writing perspective.

Of course I don't expect you can provide me an answer because it seems like you're talking out your ass. You're no writer, but it's easier to criticize someone else's work while not providing any clear cut reasoning to why your thought process is superior I guess.

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:33 PM

Jun 6, 2014 4:22 AM

#109

Offline

May 2014

5645

judals said:

MoeGod said:

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

i understand where your comming from, but sadly not all mangaka has that long term "vision" to acount for all these variables, even though i found that the itachi delema was quit well planed ... however what came next was not, could be that he wasn't expecting the series to progress this far hence the bad quality .... the main isue isn't animation (which is also not very good tbh) it's kichi's writing which is kiling the series ... let's just hope for damage control soon, i would'nt even mind if it even turned out to be "a freeking dream" in kakachi's head :P

TyrelJun 7, 2014 12:30 AM

Jun 6, 2014 4:29 AM

#110

Offline

Dec 2009

1718

WAD1992 said:

judals said:

MoeGod said:

judals said:

No but I have heard of the term character consistency. Being inconsistent along the story doesn't equate to development.
You really wanna start about tern angst, defending someone who hyperventilated?
Well, yes humans are complex, and to show rage in such depth reflected that perfectly. This half-assed situational despair with no build up, that happened within two scenes, was a failure in that regard.

Funny how you claim it isn't all about rage when he raged the same way Pain taunted him, (spare me the technicalities of the dialogue), in a very simple minded way.

I didn't say Naruto had to care about them, but other ninja must have. It's a good thing every one who lost someone had his own personal Hinata.

As for your question, I don't care for a 'better choice', I want better writing. With that ai'd probably be fine with Neji.

I know it's like that from the beginning. Here is the catch: kishi wants their beliefs to go head to head, but doesn't know how, so he forces moments like these to make it play out. No grace whatsoever. And quite unprofessional.

Another problem is how this is ALWAYS the plot of naruo, how is up against a parallel life-opposite decisions type of shit.

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

i understand where your comming from, but sadly not all mangaka has that long term "vision" to acount for all these variables, even though i found that the itachi delema was quit well planed ... however what came next was not, could be that he wasn't expecting the series to progress this far hence the bad quality .... the main isue isn't animation (which is also not very good tbh) it's kichi's writing which is kiling the series ... let's just hope for damage control soon, i would'nt even mind if it even turned out to be "a freeking dream" in kakachi's head :P

Before you criticize Kishimoto's writing, perhaps you should learn how to use spell-check and auto-correct :p

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:32 PM

Jun 6, 2014 4:34 AM

#111

Offline

May 2014

5645

Jouten said:

WAD1992 said:

judals said:

MoeGod said:

judals said:

No but I have heard of the term character consistency. Being inconsistent along the story doesn't equate to development.
You really wanna start about tern angst, defending someone who hyperventilated?
Well, yes humans are complex, and to show rage in such depth reflected that perfectly. This half-assed situational despair with no build up, that happened within two scenes, was a failure in that regard.

Funny how you claim it isn't all about rage when he raged the same way Pain taunted him, (spare me the technicalities of the dialogue), in a very simple minded way.

I didn't say Naruto had to care about them, but other ninja must have. It's a good thing every one who lost someone had his own personal Hinata.

As for your question, I don't care for a 'better choice', I want better writing. With that ai'd probably be fine with Neji.

I know it's like that from the beginning. Here is the catch: kishi wants their beliefs to go head to head, but doesn't know how, so he forces moments like these to make it play out. No grace whatsoever. And quite unprofessional.

Another problem is how this is ALWAYS the plot of naruo, how is up against a parallel life-opposite decisions type of shit.

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

i understand where your comming from, but sadly not all mangaka has that long term "vision" to acount for all these variables, even though i found that the itachi delema was quit well planed ... however what came next was not, could be that he wasn't expecting the series to progress this far hence the bad quality .... the main isue isn't animation (which is also not very good tbh) it's kichi's writing which is kiling the series ... let's just hope for damage control soon, i would'nt even mind if it even turned out to be "a freeking dream" in kakachi's head :P

Before you criticize Kishimoto's writing, perhaps you should learn how to use spell-check and auto-correct :p

LOLS... neither is relavent, and using them well wont make your writing better which i have no interest in at this moment :P

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:33 PM

Jun 6, 2014 4:36 AM

#112

Offline

Dec 2009

1718

WAD1992 said:

Jouten said:

WAD1992 said:

judals said:

MoeGod said:

judals said:

No but I have heard of the term character consistency. Being inconsistent along the story doesn't equate to development.
You really wanna start about tern angst, defending someone who hyperventilated?
Well, yes humans are complex, and to show rage in such depth reflected that perfectly. This half-assed situational despair with no build up, that happened within two scenes, was a failure in that regard.

Funny how you claim it isn't all about rage when he raged the same way Pain taunted him, (spare me the technicalities of the dialogue), in a very simple minded way.

I didn't say Naruto had to care about them, but other ninja must have. It's a good thing every one who lost someone had his own personal Hinata.

As for your question, I don't care for a 'better choice', I want better writing. With that ai'd probably be fine with Neji.

I know it's like that from the beginning. Here is the catch: kishi wants their beliefs to go head to head, but doesn't know how, so he forces moments like these to make it play out. No grace whatsoever. And quite unprofessional.

Another problem is how this is ALWAYS the plot of naruo, how is up against a parallel life-opposite decisions type of shit.

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

i understand where your comming from, but sadly not all mangaka has that long term "vision" to acount for all these variables, even though i found that the itachi delema was quit well planed ... however what came next was not, could be that he wasn't expecting the series to progress this far hence the bad quality .... the main isue isn't animation (which is also not very good tbh) it's kichi's writing which is kiling the series ... let's just hope for damage control soon, i would'nt even mind if it even turned out to be "a freeking dream" in kakachi's head :P

Before you criticize Kishimoto's writing, perhaps you should learn how to use spell-check and auto-correct :p

LOLS... neither is relavent, and using them well wont make your writing better which i have no interest in at this moment :P

It's relevant in the sense if you want to be taken seriously by your peers on this site, which usually when you come on to voice your opinion in a forum is the case.

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:34 PM

Jun 6, 2014 4:43 AM

#113

Offline

May 2014

5645

Jouten said:

WAD1992 said:

Jouten said:

WAD1992 said:

judals said:

MoeGod said:

judals said:

No but I have heard of the term character consistency. Being inconsistent along the story doesn't equate to development.
You really wanna start about tern angst, defending someone who hyperventilated?
Well, yes humans are complex, and to show rage in such depth reflected that perfectly. This half-assed situational despair with no build up, that happened within two scenes, was a failure in that regard.

Funny how you claim it isn't all about rage when he raged the same way Pain taunted him, (spare me the technicalities of the dialogue), in a very simple minded way.

I didn't say Naruto had to care about them, but other ninja must have. It's a good thing every one who lost someone had his own personal Hinata.

As for your question, I don't care for a 'better choice', I want better writing. With that ai'd probably be fine with Neji.

I know it's like that from the beginning. Here is the catch: kishi wants their beliefs to go head to head, but doesn't know how, so he forces moments like these to make it play out. No grace whatsoever. And quite unprofessional.

Another problem is how this is ALWAYS the plot of naruo, how is up against a parallel life-opposite decisions type of shit.

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

i understand where your comming from, but sadly not all mangaka has that long term "vision" to acount for all these variables, even though i found that the itachi delema was quit well planed ... however what came next was not, could be that he wasn't expecting the series to progress this far hence the bad quality .... the main isue isn't animation (which is also not very good tbh) it's kichi's writing which is kiling the series ... let's just hope for damage control soon, i would'nt even mind if it even turned out to be "a freeking dream" in kakachi's head :P

Before you criticize Kishimoto's writing, perhaps you should learn how to use spell-check and auto-correct :p

LOLS... neither is relavent, and using them well wont make your writing better which i have no interest in at this moment :P

It's relevant in the sense if you want to be taken seriously by your peers on this site, which usually when you come on to voice your opinion in a forum is the case.

Which is why i focus on THE CONTENT and not the way it's presented ... in other words i want to be taken seriously by some one who is equaly serious, in the sense that he too will care about the content nothing else, but in any case i appreciate the advice and i took it into consideration :) ....

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:34 PM

Jun 6, 2014 4:51 AM

#114

Grunbeld

Offline

Jan 2014

3077

judals said:

MoeGod said:

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

Naruto never did find the solution with Pain, what was determined with his interactions with Nagato was that one day he would find the answer, and that Nagato should put his faith in him. He didn't fully develop his answer to what he would do if he lost his friends until this very episode, and we'll see it in full effect next week as well. Also you keep pulling out the bad writing card, and how Neji was a bad choice, but you're not providing examples as to why this is bad or what choices would have been better from a writing perspective.

Of course I don't expect you can provide me an answer because it seems like you're talking out your ass. You're no writer, but it's easier to criticize someone else's work while not providing any clear cut reasoning to why your thought process is superior I guess.[/quote]

Yes I already addressed that if he did not get the answer then, then the answer itself would have been absolutely irrelevant. Since he already seemed to have dealt with it.

Another point I'd like to add to MoeGod, you're wrong, Hinats is not the only one who'd give her life for naruto.

Back to you, Neji was bad writing because he had been absent for ever. And now he's suddenly here, only to INDUCE and force the already not so relevant, as mentioned above, Naru x Hina "development" which is a terrible excuse for a shipping. That forcing ultimately is far far away from good writing.

WAD, you're right but I still blame him for not planning it.

TyrelJun 7, 2014 12:31 AM

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Jun 6, 2014 5:01 AM

#115

Arisaka47

Offline

May 2013

11

Rip Neji. Good Neji gone too soon

Jun 6, 2014 5:05 AM

#116

Offline

May 2014

5645

judals said:

Jouten said:

judals said:

MoeGod said:

judals said:

No but I have heard of the term character consistency. Being inconsistent along the story doesn't equate to development.
You really wanna start about tern angst, defending someone who hyperventilated?
Well, yes humans are complex, and to show rage in such depth reflected that perfectly. This half-assed situational despair with no build up, that happened within two scenes, was a failure in that regard.

Funny how you claim it isn't all about rage when he raged the same way Pain taunted him, (spare me the technicalities of the dialogue), in a very simple minded way.

I didn't say Naruto had to care about them, but other ninja must have. It's a good thing every one who lost someone had his own personal Hinata.

As for your question, I don't care for a 'better choice', I want better writing. With that ai'd probably be fine with Neji.

I know it's like that from the beginning. Here is the catch: kishi wants their beliefs to go head to head, but doesn't know how, so he forces moments like these to make it play out. No grace whatsoever. And quite unprofessional.

Another problem is how this is ALWAYS the plot of naruo, how is up against a parallel life-opposite decisions type of shit.

I'm not sure what do you expect but Naruto has gone a long way since Pain. He has fought his evil and insecure side in the waterfall of truth and tamed Kyuubi perfectly. I'd say that's quite a development that you conveniently ignored using the term "inconsistency". It's like you're surprised that he (and Kyuubi, mind you) has somehow matured. You also forgot that at that time Naruto had no answer to Pain, which makes Hinata's speech all the more important because it's the answer Naruto has been searching all along.

In case you also haven't noticed, Naruto is pretty much the rallying point of the Shinobi alliance. Shikaku's last strategy that he relayed to the entire army was based on Naruto. Sure, some of them would have despaired seeing their friends died but they would have been rallied by Naruto going Kyuubi mode. Not to mention, some of the shinobi despairing over their fallen friends has actually been shown before and must have happened often during the whole war while Neji is Naruto's FIRST fallen close comrade during the war. He's also the one among the countless shinobi whose believe and experience is the most similar to Obito and that's why it had more impact to him than the rest.

You're also contradicting yourself, saying Neji is the worst choice yet now you claim you don't care about the better choice. You yourself can't answer who would be more fitting to the story than the two of them.

Naruto's and Obito's belief is a recurring theme throughout the entire series. From the first arc, during Kakashi gaiden, Jiraiya's past, Pain's motivation, all the way to Obito and even Madara. You somehow seemed surprised that Kishi created a storyline to play this out during the war when this is a point in the war where all hopes are supposed to be gone. The "brains" eliminated & Naruto's belief rocked, it's supposed to be the turning point of the war and also so that Naruto may never waver in his belief again.

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" clich crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

Naruto never did find the solution with Pain, what was determined with his interactions with Nagato was that one day he would find the answer, and that Nagato should put his faith in him. He didn't fully develop his answer to what he would do if he lost his friends until this very episode, and we'll see it in full effect next week as well. Also you keep pulling out the bad writing card, and how Neji was a bad choice, but you're not providing examples as to why this is bad or what choices would have been better from a writing perspective.

Of course I don't expect you can provide me an answer because it seems like you're talking out your ass. You're no writer, but it's easier to criticize someone else's work while not providing any clear cut reasoning to why your thought process is superior I guess.

Yes I already addressed that if he did not get the answer then, then the answer itself would have been absolutely irrelevant. Since he already seemed to have dealt with it.

Another point I'd like to add to MoeGod, you're wrong, Hinats is not the only one who'd give her life for naruto.

Back to you, Neji was bad writing because he had been absent for ever. And now he's suddenly here, only to INDUCE and force the already not so relevant, as mentioned above, Naru x Hina "development" which is a terrible excuse for a shipping. That forcing ultimately is far far away from good writing.

WAD, you're right but I still blame him for not planning it.

Could be that Kichi is expecting the series to thrive on the all ready established popularity, or may be we're all expecting too mush because it's naruto :P ...
Btw regarding naruto's answer to PAIN, at the end of the arc he DID NOT provid an answer but only a promise to find one

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:24 PM

Jun 6, 2014 5:11 AM

#117

Offline

Jul 2013

2330

judals said:

His "evil" side which suddenly popped out of nowhere. This was supposed to be someone psychological not some literal "dark naruto" cliche crap, which, was also strictly situational and not a development.

So wait, Naruto did not find the answer at the end of the pain fight? Because he seemed to walk out perfectly fine out of that.

That's why I called it bad writing. Everyone seemed to be perfectly fine despite Obito's "proof" that he is right, conveniently and forcefully affecting naruto selectively because kishi wanted to write that plot and get it over with.

Yes, Neji is a bad choice from a writing perspective, not because of him being... Neji.

Here's the problem: Kishi is obviously trying to create parallels between naruto and his enemies as well as this gen with past generations. But due to the bad writing, what he's really doing is just replicating the same plot over the course of many arcs. The gist of every major villain is how naruto empathizes with them and them having a similar past but different results, beating them to show how he is right, all the while having flashbacks of how past generations, it was just like that.

I repeat: yes, it is a "theme" that they compare the pasts, but how they put them head to head for comparisons is forced and lacks effort.

Coming to terms with your dark side is not a progress? what glasses do you use to judge that? you're just adamantly refusing to see that Naruto has grown while all the evidences point towards that. Situational? how does that even relevant? the point is Naruto came out of that encounter a better person.

Naruto didn't really have a clear answer when Nagato confronted him about achieving peace and coming to terms with death. He simply said he won't give up on finding the way, drawing parallels with Jiraiya's book and Nagato chose to believe that.

So let me rephrase that question, who do you think is the best choice from "writing" perspective?

Forcefully and selectively? It seems that you're having a hard time coming to terms with Naruto being the main character (which is why almost everything revolves around him). In case you haven't noticed the parallels between his life and Obito is astounding because that's how the story was set up from the very beginning! To other people, Obito is just a mad man who killed their friends and trying to destroy their life. To Naruto, Obito's objective is a lot more personal because he is his father's former student who was similar to him yet chose a completely different path. See the difference? obviously you can't compare how the alliance sees Obito with Naruto's point of view. To the common people what Obito's speech would just be gloating over their comrade's death but to Naruto, it destroys everything that he believes in.

It seems that you also haven't noticed that Naruto was always about achieving peace by coming to an understanding (as if there wasn't enough "Talk no Jutsu" for you to notice this). The parallels between two different yet similar sides has always been present in Naruto. It's not just for Naruto and Obito, it also applied for the similarity between Jiraiya's & Naruto's life, the rivalry between Uchiha and Senju that's passed down all the way to Naruto and Sasuke, Minato and Kakashi, Nagato and Naruto, Team 7 and Sannin, even back to Sasuke and Haku. I think it's more surprising that we're this far into the story and you only complain about it now. For me the parallels have always been portrayed nicely and the events that led to the clash & comparison between the two sides have always been foreshadowed earlier. How you see it as forced and lack effort is beyond me. It has always happened and is bound to happen again in the future. If it doesn't suit your taste then I can't do anything about it.

If you're talking about pattern then almost every shounen has that. This post by Mangastream http://mangastream.com/blog/41 perfectly sums that up.

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:35 PM

Jun 6, 2014 5:16 AM

#118

Offline

Jul 2013

2330

judals said:

Yes I already addressed that if he did not get the answer then, then the answer itself would have been absolutely irrelevant. Since he already seemed to have dealt with it.

Another point I'd like to add to MoeGod, you're wrong, Hinats is not the only one who'd give her life for naruto.

Back to you, Neji was bad writing because he had been absent for ever. And now he's suddenly here, only to INDUCE and force the already not so relevant, as mentioned above, Naru x Hina "development" which is a terrible excuse for a shipping. That forcing ultimately is far far away from good writing.

WAD, you're right but I still blame him for not planning it.

Well so far Hinata's the only one who has jumped to protect Naruto from certain death so I'll leave it at that. As someone else have pointed out, Naruto only promised to find the answer. How does that suddenly become irrelevant? it's not like Naruto has to mull over it all the freaking time (who wants to read that?). Obviously he hasn't forgotten it because Obito's words rocked his belief that he'd ever found an answer.

I also don't see how Naruto despairing over Neji, the guy who used to be his rival and also fought alongside him against the Sound Five, is any worse than Gon grieving over Kite, the guy he barely knew who he only met once and happened to meet again for a brief time. That's why I mentioned double standards in my earlier post. While I already mentioned that Neji could've been given more screen time before his death, it served its purpose. Go read my first explanation (that you challenged) again to see why it's not necessarily important to prolong Neji's death because it's not suppose to give you the "feels" or to shock you.

MoeGodJun 6, 2014 5:50 AM

Jun 6, 2014 5:34 AM

#119

Dimitrije1606

Offline

Jun 2013

1426

After that shitty chapter 2 days ago, this episode had no impact whatsoever....

Ad Astra Per Aspera

Jun 6, 2014 5:46 AM

#120

PrimeX

Offline

Jul 2013

8999

yeah baby! Naruto and Hinata! Neji's death was I think anti climatic and had no impact to me.. well I've read the manga up to his death so maybe that's why anyway at least now that I don't know what will happen next that I'm all pumped up!

Jun 6, 2014 5:53 AM

#121

Offline

May 2014

5645

MoeGod said:

judals said:

Yes I already addressed that if he did not get the answer then, then the answer itself would have been absolutely irrelevant. Since he already seemed to have dealt with it.

Another point I'd like to add to MoeGod, you're wrong, Hinats is not the only one who'd give her life for naruto.

Back to you, Neji was bad writing because he had been absent for ever. And now he's suddenly here, only to INDUCE and force the already not so relevant, as mentioned above, Naru x Hina "development" which is a terrible excuse for a shipping. That forcing ultimately is far far away from good writing.

WAD, you're right but I still blame him for not planning it.

Well so far Hinata's the only one who has jumped to protect Naruto from certain death so I'll leave it at that.

I also don't see how Naruto despairing over Neji, the guy who used to be his rival and also fought alongside him against the Sound Five, is any worse than Gon grieving over Kite, the guy he barely knew who he only met once and happened to meet again for a brief time. That's why I mentioned double standards in my earlier post.

Kite the man that he only met twice who also saved his life TWICE, and since it's Gonn it was a perfectly normal reaction (not to mention it was one of the best anime reactions to death, you don't see that in just any anime) his charecter was verry veryy WELL developt in that direction, Gon by nature can make freinds very quickly like his father and he gets atashed also very quickly, hence the guilt ... so it does add up in a way

Jun 6, 2014 6:01 AM

#122

Offline

May 2014

5645

PrimeX said:
yeah baby! Naruto and Hinata! Neji's death was I think anti climatic and had no impact to me.. well I've read the manga up to his death so maybe that's why anyway at least now that I don't know what will happen next that I'm all pumped up!

That is why some are saying they should have ended the episode at neji's death, at the very least do it as tribute for neji .... this is what it looked like: neji is dead ohh noo... every one was like: oh no neji is dead -_- ... mooving on...don't give up naruto .... okay naruto is on his feet ...
The hyuga was all ready underdevelopt and this was like the finiching blow, very sad

Jun 6, 2014 11:12 AM

#123

Dark_Chaos

Offline

May 2013

4712

It's a shame, really. I mean for the past few weeks I've been hoping that Sasuke would have swooped in and lent some help after his heel-face turn. Then again, I guess they did have to differentiate Naruto and Obito somehow, so it had to be done.

Oh, and this was so poorly executed. It pales in comparison to Jiraiya's death scene.

Jun 6, 2014 11:27 AM

#124

Offline

Dec 2009

1718

Dark_Chaos said:
It's a shame, really. I mean for the past few weeks I've been hoping that Sasuke would have swooped in and lent some help after his heel-face turn. Then again, I guess they did have to differentiate Naruto and Obito somehow, so it had to be done.

Oh, and this was so poorly executed. It pales in comparison to Jiraiya's death scene.

The circumstances are entirely different. Jiraiya was fighting a life and death battle alone against Pain. Neji was fighting in a large scale conflict and in the chaos sacrificed himself so Naruto and Hinata wouldn't be killed. It was never supposed to be as over the top and dramatic as Jiraiya's death was, it was supposed to be sudden and brutal, because they're in a fucking war. Also Sasuke hasn't had a heel face turn, what the fuck are you talking about? He's unsure about what he wants to do, so Orochimaru is taking him to the ones that know everything. That has nothing to do with the current war, Sasuke is still choosing to do his own thing currently.

Jun 6, 2014 12:25 PM

#125

removed-user

Offline

Jul 2018

564540

WTF this was ridiculous, did Neji really have to jump in the spikes? Couldn't he hit them or use some jutsu to throw them away?

Orochimaru is the only thing that can still make this anime a bit interesting, wtf kishimoto, wtf

Jun 6, 2014 1:04 PM

#126

Zeus97

Offline

Apr 2014

128

In the manga I was: NO NEJI!

In this episode I was: Aww man that sucks...oh well..this is war after all.

I guess it was because I knew what was going to happen but I somehow feel like the anime had something to do with it. It just felt so fast in the anime that emotions couldn't really come through.

Jun 6, 2014 2:01 PM

#127

Esheraz

Offline

May 2013

1310

omg Neji ._.

Jun 6, 2014 2:16 PM

#128

Offline

Jul 2007

6108

Minagatachi said:

MoeGod said:

I think a lot of people missed the point of Neji's death. Naruto has been fighting this war by clinging to the words "I won't let my comrades die". This is the exact word that Obito taught to Kakashi, who then taught it to Naruto. Neji didn't die simply because he's a casualty of war, not even for the shock value (although it was quite shocking in the manga when it happened). He died so Obito can have a reason to shake Naruto's resolve because Naruto is similar to how he was when he was young. He wants Naruto to realize that he's naive just like when Obito was young, that you can't always protect all of your comrades. Obito is bitter about not being able to protect Rin and he wants Naruto to experience the same thing.

Why Neji then? it makes perfect sense because among everyone in that battlefield Hinata is the only one who can snap Naruto back and make him realize that his words was not just empty words, that everyone believes the same thing and that's why Neji sacrificed himself. Sakura isn't nearly as kind or as calm as Hinata and you can argue that no one understands Naruto better than Hinata, the one who has watched him for the longest time. Neji was chosen because his death should've impacted Hinata just as much as Naruto yet while Naruto was crumbling because of Obito's words, she remained unwavering and that's how Naruto is able to realize that his believe was not just empty words. This definitely wouldn't work with Sakura, Kakashi, or even Lee. Not only that, Neji's death also pretty much gave him a conclusion of finally understanding how his father felt when he sacrificed himself for the Hyuuga. Pretty much two birds with one stone.

The way Neji's death was executed certainly can be better by giving him more screen time but in all intents and purpose, it fulfilled what it's supposed to do.

Well said.

Indeed, your exactly right. I couldn't of said it better my self.

Jun 6, 2014 2:26 PM

#129

Offline

Dec 2009

1718

I honestly enjoyed the episode. It doesn't live up animation wise to the glorious previous episode, but at least things flowed smoothly and the regular animation is decent enough. I cried for a long time for Neji, because he's a character I have gotten to know for 14 years now so it hit me pretty hard.

Jun 6, 2014 2:32 PM

#130

Mizzo

Offline

May 2012

16

NAKAMA this,NAKAMA that....NAKAMA my ass !! seriously WTF is this shit.. why did they make Neji die in such a lame way !!! couldn't he just push Naruto away or something. they had enough time to do so many things other than jump and stand in front of him like good for nothing cardboard cutouts !!! seriously WTF !!! i have enough of this shitty clichÃ© i'm gonna stick to the manga at least things there are way less crappy than the anime.OVER AND OUT

Jun 6, 2014 2:43 PM

#131

Offline

Jul 2007

6108

Mizzo said:
NAKAMA this,NAKAMA that....NAKAMA my ass !! seriously WTF is this shit.. why did they make Neji die in such a lame way !!! couldn't he just push Naruto away or something. they had enough time to do so many things other than jump and stand in front of him like good for nothing cardboard cutouts !!! seriously WTF !!! i have enough of this shitty cliche 'm gonna stick to the manga at least things there are way less crappy than the anime.OVER AND OUT

How is that argument even relevant to what your stating, the anime and manga is going to be the same lol. So nothing is going to change, unless your comparing pacing or production quality. But you didn't state that. You simply complained bout the way neji's death was handled.

I think what some people need to understand is neji's death was kind of characterized as symbolism for the most part. Its supposed to symbolize obito's ideology and his reasoning behind his actions and what he did in his past life and that intern affects his ideal's and naruto's ideal's. Neji was kind of just thrown in the middle as part of that plot thread. But neji's death was really about obito and naruto's conflicting reasoning behind what it means to experience the loss of some one and what course of action to take in order to rectify that situation.

I think that is what kishimoto is trying to get across to the viewers and if you look at from that perspective, it makes sense and it actually fits pretty well.

Obito's views are to create an utopia free of this kind of bloodshed, war and people being killed. Thats the whole point behind it. Its basically stating, that, here is obito a man who wants to create a world with no deaths. Madara was the one that initially layed out this plan for him, so obito took the bait. The concept and idea behind this might seem cliche, but if you think bout it. If you were able to never experience bloodshed, war and just a life of complete luxury and happiness, you can kind of see why he is doing that. Naruto's conflicting reasoning is he will always protect his friends no matter what regardless of what dangers lie in the world.

Both of there ideal's conflict with each other but obito wanted to show naruto what it means to loose a loved one or a friend because there is nothing you can do during these war times. People die, thats a fact. But everything can be remedied if only you lived in such an atupia. This is the kind of world that obito believed in and wanted to show naruto, this kind of escape where obito had suffered from isolation and loss of loved ones just the same as naruto did.

So well both of them experienced major loss, naruto his parents and obito his crush. Neji's death was like the key point in the middle, that kind of elaborated on this concept and plot thread in the story. This theme is also much more prevalent as the story moves on. Right now its kind of barely touched upon but it will be more expanded upon later on.

Someone else could probably explain it better then i can, but that is my whole outlook on the situation.

TyrelJun 6, 2014 3:36 PM

Jun 6, 2014 3:50 PM

#132

Mizzo

Offline

May 2012

16

link9us said:

Mizzo said:
NAKAMA this,NAKAMA that....NAKAMA my ass !! seriously WTF is this shit.. why did they make Neji die in such a lame way !!! couldn't he just push Naruto away or something. they had enough time to do so many things other than jump and stand in front of him like good for nothing cardboard cutouts !!! seriously WTF !!! i have enough of this shitty clichÃ© i'm gonna stick to the manga at least things there are way less crappy than the anime.OVER AND OUT

How is that argument even relevant to what your stating, the anime and manga is going to be the same lol. So nothing is going to change, unless your comparing pacing or production quality. But you didn't state that. You simply complained bout the way neji's death was handled.

I think what some people need to understand is neji's death was kind of characterized as symbolism for the most part. Its supposed to symbolize obito's ideology and his reasoning behind his actions and what he did in his past life and that intern affects his ideal's and naruto's ideal's. Neji was kind of just thrown in the middle as part of that plot thread. But neji's death was really about obito and naruto's conflicting reasoning behind what it means to experience the loss of some one and what course of action to take in order to rectify that situation.

I think that is what kishimoto is trying to get across to the viewers and if you look at from that perspective, it makes sense and it actually fits pretty well.

Obito's views are to create an utopia free of this kind of bloodshed, war and people being killed. Thats the whole point behind it. Its basically stating, that, here is obito a man who wants to create a world with no deaths. Madara was the one that initially layed out this plan for him, so obito took the bait. The concept and idea behind this might seem cliche, but if you think bout it. If you were able to never experience bloodshed, war and just a life of complete luxury and happiness, you can kind of see why he is doing that. Naruto's conflicting reasoning is he will always protect his friends no matter what regardless of what dangers lie in the world.

Both of there ideal's conflict with each other but obito wanted to show naruto what it means to loose a loved one or a friend because there is nothing you can do during these war times. People die, thats a fact. But everything can be remedied if only you lived in such an atupia. This is the kind of world that obito believed in and wanted to show naruto, this kind of escape where obito had suffered from isolation and loss of loved ones just the same as naruto did.

So well both of them experienced major loss, naruto his parents and obito his crush. Neji's death was like the key point in the middle, that kind of elaborated on this concept and plot thread in the story. This theme is also much more prevalent as the story moves on. Right now its kind of barely touched upon but it will have more significance later on.

Someone can probably explain this alot more then i can, but thats my thoughts on the whole thing.

i'm not against Neji's death as a key event in the plot thread. i mean that's how the story goes and develop but what pissed me off was the way they (kishi for the plot and studio Pierrot for the crappy animation) have done it. it was way too worse than the manga. how can i describe this.. It was pathetic !! it was cliche to the point of making me wanna punch the screen !!! seriously i still dont get it !! what was kishimoto thinking when he wrote this. is that the best idea he could come up with. i mean there isnt a more cliche way to kill the protagonist friend than jumping in between and taking the death blow instead of him !! that's so dem irritating. whatever!!
i can sum up my deep disappointment in two thing;first the lame clichÃ© death way that kishimoto had put in and second the low unworthy directing of the episode.OVER AND OUT

Jun 6, 2014 4:16 PM

#133

shouyo

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Aug 2011

90

good episode, although very sad from all those deaths ;-;

Jun 6, 2014 4:17 PM

#134

Archadian

Offline

Jan 2014

314

EuTenhoBomGosto said:
WTF this was ridiculous, did Neji really have to jump in the spikes? Couldn't he hit them or use some jutsu to throw them away?

Orochimaru is the only thing that can still make this anime a bit interesting, wtf kishimoto, wtf

The guy who could aim at your insides and hit 64 points at a time.

Jun 6, 2014 8:13 PM

#135

Offline

Jul 2007

6108

Archadian said:

EuTenhoBomGosto said:
WTF this was ridiculous, did Neji really have to jump in the spikes? Couldn't he hit them or use some jutsu to throw them away?

Orochimaru is the only thing that can still make this anime a bit interesting, wtf kishimoto, wtf

The guy who could aim at your insides and hit 64 points at a time.

I really miss how naruto use to use sensible logic like that. Now that entire concept bout blocking chakra walls and causing internal bleeding is kind of void at this point.

Jun 6, 2014 8:43 PM

#136

Offline

Jul 2007

6108

Here is the manga images of neji's death, you be the judge rather you think is more carefully handled then the anime is.

Thank god for the return of IMG tags

I will tell you one thing, they added an additional panel where neji stood up just like hinata did which kind of felt awkward. In the magna, it just simply switched to that scene and he was already speared. The way kishimoto drew it, i guess gave it more shock value that way.

Also his death was not really handled that wall, he got stuck with two spears and dropped dead, as he fell off screen, in the manga, its full center. You see everything and he does not just drop dead like some puppet on strings.

ArtimesGamerJun 6, 2014 9:30 PM

Jun 6, 2014 10:51 PM

#137

lakshika

Offline

Dec 2011

889

i just cant believe it ........ oh...my... god....i think i am going to be very sick NEJI just died .......... i cant stop crying and also shikakuand inoichi ...why??? its just not fair..
my head , heart mind is in so much pain i never felt like this before :3 i couldn't focus on anything else in the story :3

Jun 7, 2014 1:11 AM

#138

peachisoda

Offline

Jun 2013

117

It was a okay episode for me.
Neji's death was poorly executed though..the manga hit me harder.
I'm not a Naru x Hina fan so I had a straight face through out the whole part of her speech. Hope next week's episode is better though.

If you feel attacked, you're part of the problem.

Even if things are painful and tough, people should appreciate what it means to be alive at all. — Yato

Jun 7, 2014 2:09 AM

#139