Spotlight Character: Johan Liebert (Monster) MAL Character Information Page: Johan "Johan Liebheart" Liebert MAL Favorites: 424 For the next two weeks I would like to have everyone familiar with this character discuss what they think makes it an exceptional character. What attributes make it stand out in the ocean of interesting characters that exist in the realms of anime and manga. Unlike the other two subjects I will not force this conversation to fall into any set structure. Characters that are nominated typically get here because they are adept at breaking the existing character moulds and defying definition. Because of this freedom I encourage everyone to do their very best to stay on topic and keep any and all debate civil. Have fun and I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about this character. *Due to voting rule changes, this character is permanently inducted from its first poll data. RESULTS OF THE YOU DECIDE POLL Johan Liebert was inducted into the club Character list: 48 Yes - 81.3% 11 No - 18.7% 27 Don't Know - 31.3% of the total number polled On 02/12/2010 Johan Liebert will be voted on for a second and final time |
Dark-EvolutionNov 6, 2010 9:29 PM
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
| greatest villain ever = yes |
| What makes this character and many other characters from Monster exceptionally good is the amount of work that's been put on creating and defining them. The creator of Monster has taken a very realistic approach in creating the characters. Most of the characters are so believable that I thought they might have been based on real characters and I loved them for that. However, Johan did not leave the same impression on me from the start. He didn't feel as real to me as others but at the same time I liked how his almost unreal presence was the most powerful drive for the amazing plot. But as I watched more episodes and as the facts about Johan's past and present were revealed one after the other, his character became more believable but it never lost the powerful presence it had. Although all along Johan is regarded as a monster and despite the fact that we see how cruel and evil he can be, you can never refuse to realize that even the darkest character of Monster is not totally black on his own. That's what makes Johan one of the best villains ever. He is charismatic , evil and powerful but those aspects are not the only aspects of his character (as opposed to so many other villains we've seen before) He's the most believable "bad guy" I've ever seen in an anime. |
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| It's been a year, so my memory maybe a little fuzzy, but this is the way I understood how Johan came into being. After being born as a controlled genetic experiment, he and sister, who was taken to be conditioned by Franz Bonaparte in the Red Rose Mansion, escaped their captors. Because Anna told Johan about all of what happened at the mansion, those memories became his, as he must have felt that he should protect Anna, and that he was more capable of dealing with those actions. Thus he was motivated to kill to protect Anna. After being split up, he was raised in Kinderheim 511 where he was further conditioned to do think and do in a manner that he had already become accustomed to, and hence, set fire to the place, and was raised by the Lieberts. After Tenma saved him, my guess is that Johan decided that he had to know the truth about himself and spent the next years erasing his existence as he became closer, and sickened by the truth colored by his adoption of Anna's memories. He used any and everyone, including the Nazis to get to the heart of the genetic experiments, the Red Rose Mansion, and Franz Bonaparte/Klaus Poppe, the architect behind his psyche. The important thing is that Johan is always on a path of self-discovery, and that he is leading Tenma and Anna to his very scripted death. We know that from quite early on, he realized that he was monster, and sought assurance, and even death from Anna. Once he was saved by Tenma, he saw meaning in his bleak existence and decided that he would create his own death only after destroying the institutions that created him. He's a great character to me because he is given great depth to his convictions, other than pure mania or what could have been an emo, "I was created to kill! I'm not good for anything else, so I'll just die!" mentality. We see through flashbacks how Johan became the cold manipulator he is as a young adult, but, like Griffith in Berserk, there is naive innocence about everything that he has done. |
noteDheroAug 9, 2009 11:21 AM
Anime-Destiny said: When it comes to deciding whether Johan should be voted in the relations list or not, there are times that I'm impress with his character and other times that I felt taken aback. As the antagonist, Johan certainly is a very gifted manipulator based on attempting ways he hopes to achieve from his words alone. This obviously makes him a dangerous individual where he ensures the fact that destruction should happen in society. Even with that being said, there is hardly an explanation on how Johan acquires these skills especially from the fact it came from a young age. Johan does stand out as a manipulator, a very persuasive one at that, but a manipulator with no clear reason of how he acquires it (even though the audience just knows it possibly came from a place called Kinderheim 511 or some other place). Note: using 'possibly' is not something I consider a good way of accuracy when determining how a character acquires his skill. In my opinion, Johan did not acquire his charisma or manipulation skills from anywhere. People are born with those abilities most of the time. Some people have the leader personality within them but how they are directed or raised defines the way they're gonna use those skills. Johan is a talented kid with psychological issues caused by his upbringing. At the very end of the last episode, when Johan asked Tenma if his mother had handed Anna to Bonaparta due to mistaking him with her or not, all his actions are kind of explained. He struck me as the more emotional one of the twins at that moment. He grew up with a doubt that he's the unwanted child (even with the way their mother dressed them both as girls) and with the guilty feeling that Anna will never forgive him for crying at that time and knows that Anna blames him for those horrible days she had at the Rose mansion and while he's waiting for his mother and sister to come back all he reads is that "Monster with no name" picture book. He hears all Anna has experienced at the red rose mansion from her but never hears how Bonaparta wishes for them not be monsters from Anna. Later add all the hardship they went through to get to the border on their own while they almost faced death only to be separated and sent to different orphanages. There's no wonder why such a child should be an angry child with destructive behavior not to mention how his character fits with the monster from the story. Here Johan is sent to 511and is given the name Johan from the very same book he used to read as if this monster is now awakened in him or he truly believes that he's the same monster and hence the idea of being the last survivor in the end is burnt to his mind. At 511 they try to brainwash the boys into perfect soldiers without giving them any love. So he forgets that it's been Anna who'd been through all those hardship at the mansion. Due to his charismatic character and leadership abilities he starts a riot in the 511 orphanage and from there all his actions are based on that monster book. He just destroys whatever he reaches. Anime-Destiny said: I also find it highly unusual and strange when Johan is called the next Adolf Hitler, based on the fact that he is charismatic. The problem I have with this situation is there isn't a whole lot to witness on Johan's charisma other than the fact that he has these manipulating skills to use on other individuals. One question I usually ask to myself is how Johan gets a Neo-Nazi group to worship him as the next Aryan leader. In my mind, this could of have been where we recognize how charismatic Johan turns out to be but it never becomes clear so labeling him as the next Adolf Hitler is not something I felt came out as strong nor accurate as it presented. Unfortunely even though Johan is a fairly good antagonist, he hits some areas that I felt were misses so it is a likely 'No' vote. ^^ As for the basis of him being compared with Hitler, there are enough reasons given in my opinion. He has shown great leadership abilities not only at 511 but also as a teenager who created and run that Banking system to help criminals with money laundering only to disappear with lots of money when things get rough. He's been influencing the underground economy and taking advantage of people by either manipulating them or affecting them by his charisma as we see how he can make people do whatever he wants (kill people for him or give him money etc.) "The baby" and those other two men run a huge underground system of their own and there's no wonder that they know about Johan and his doings all over the years therefore they know about his leadership abilities and how charismatic he is and those are the two characteristics that Hitler is well known for them. Besides they know that Johan is the child produced to be the next Hitler by Bonaparta and they all think that it was Johan who went through the experiments at the mansion. I don't think if we put all the little bits of information about Johan there would be any exaggerations or great vagueness in his character development. The only thing is that most of his actions are just talked about instead of being shown and that's the best way in my opinion cause Johan's power is to do whatever he pleases without anyone being able to catch him in action. He's like Keyser Söze for "The Usual Suspects" He erases whoever knows anything about him so it's not easy to get to see parts of his life since Monster only shows parts of Johan's life that's been witnessed by the other characters of the story (That's one of it's strengths as a thriller) . If Johan's past was reachable as easily as any other character's then the whole plot would become one lame story better to be forgotten. Sorry for the long post ^^' |
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| I think that if you want a good look at the way that Johan worked, then it's almost all presented in the Munich arc. We see Johan make "friendships" with people close in his age to target people and information. We see just how Johan uses his charisma to entwine himself into the lives of rich, older people, by using their background to becoming a surrogate son to them; all the while whittling away at their finances. We see him use drag as a means to open up a variety of ways in obtaining information. And we see how he likes to dispose of his presence: ie. with fire. As for Kinderheim, we know that it wasn't his leadership abilities that destroyed the place. It was his ability to know people's emotional triggers. We are aware that the children had been on edge from being treated poorly, so Johan's words were just a spark, that's the way he works. He makes seemingly innocent comments here and there, and then creates a desired outcome with twisted logic. Just like when he was getting the children to play those suicide games. Those are the most important places where we see exactly how he works. We find it very clearly through characters that he had severely affected. |
noteDheroAug 10, 2009 8:59 AM
| @ Anime-Destiny: Before I mention anything I should say that I'm just presenting my personal opinion on everything. Some of what I wanted to say is already said in noteDhero's post so I just won't repeat that post. Thanks noteDhero. Well to be honest when a plot takes a certain path in its narration and changes its logic of story telling just in the middle of the story, it loses a great deal of power. Monster chooses to tell the story through witnesses. As a result we get to know many supporting characters (I really loved that about Monster) who play as pieces of a puzzle. All along Tenma is running after these pieces and as he gets his hands on them another fact is revealed however don't forget that he just starts looking for those pieces when Johan is almost 20 and has already started wiping out his traces therefore Tenma begins to put together pieces of a puzzle that he already know is missing some important parts. This is the logic of the story. Some may like it and some may not but I really appreciate how Monster sticks to this narration style while giving us enough chances to take a glance at how Johan executes his plans. This is when we get to the witnesses (Tenma gets there) before Johan gets the chance to destroy all evidence (The Munich arc, The childhood Anna remembers, Bonaparta's story and etc.) When I say "If Johan's past was reachable as easily as any other character's then the whole plot would become one lame story better to be forgotten." I'm referring to the logic of story telling that Monster has. If all of a sudden we could see parts of Johan's life while there are no witnesses to tell the story, Monster would have lost lots of points due to braking its own rules and if there were many witnesses left form Johan's past (from the time he ran away from the hospital to the time Tenma started his journey) then he wouldn't deserve to be considered as powerful as he was and hence the whole fuss about him being a great leader and all would be just mere exaggerations. I for one would have loved to know Johan better but when I look at the big picture he perfectly fits the style of the story. Johan's motive is to erase his past and become the nameless monster and he is good at it but unlike many other villains he's got enough depth to him not to become a 2D presence on the screen who's given great powers with no clear purpose. Many of the villains are just after power or destruction but you'll never get to know their motives but Johan's motives and goals are perfectly clear and that makes him a good antagonist in my opinion. |
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| My thing is that, as I said before, Johan was fully developed as a character by the time that Tenma saved him. It was that revelation, and that revelation only that we actually witnessed. Everything else throughout the course of Monster (except maybe the ending depending on the way you read into it) is an exercise in straightforward mystery and characterization. I think that's what Kokuro was trying to say. Since Johan was already developed, and because of the manner in which we find out about all his dastardly deeds, there are holes that allow us as the viewer to fill in with our imagination, leaving a deeper and more psychologically haunting portrait of Johan that is personalized. The way I see it is that Johan carried out the disaster at Kinderheim in the same manner that he did years later with the children's suicide game. I think that the story shows us that Johan's bag of tricks is relatively small, but because he goes through the detail of making it personalized for each of his victims, the results are extraordinary. I think that this can also be said for the way that Johan used the Big Four. As he did with every other crime lord and conspirator, he throws around very powerful names around the right people, along with the fact that he had organized a highly successful underworld money laundering scheme to show proof of his abilities. All of that topped off with his charisma that does have a practical mean streak allowed me to connect the dots as to how he got their approval. I do agree with you regarding Roberto though. I would like to know his reasons for staying loyal to Johan for so long. Those however, are more questions concerning Roberto as a character more than Johan. I think it's short sighted to say that Johan will do what is called upon for the plot to do because he is given great motivation for everything that he does. His quest for vengeance, questioning his existence, and acceptance of himself are all great components for a character that are fleshed out very well. All of his actions throughout the story are rooted in this, and he never really strays from that except for those cryptically tender moments with Nina...the only other person that would truly understand him. |
noteDheroAug 12, 2009 1:03 PM
| Again, I think we are given a clear picture. We just aren't given each and every detail to spare Johan from seeming redundant. Because I think the manner in which he deceives people is one of the same 3 or 4 ways, depending on the age (younger, peer, older) the lines are easy to fill because we've seen him use the same tactics at least twice on those kinds of people. As far as development goes, throughout the course of the show, we clearly see the path that Johan walked up until the brain surgery throughout various flashbacks and revelations on Anna's part. Separate from that we are given the Munich arch which is a total characterization and unmasking of Johan's process. These are all very concrete details that, when combined with a lot of his other actions in various places, give a clear picture of his motivations and actions. That we don't know exactly how he did a few things is a little irrelevant comparatively and is far outweighed by what we do see him go through. |
noteDheroAug 12, 2009 1:02 PM
| Having discussed his character with my housemate, whose professional competence proved insightful, I'd like to add a few cents' worth to what noteDhero has mentioned. By and large, the latter-named managed to describe the man very well in a few sentences. However, I'll be going a step further and proclaim that Johan Liebert is the most faithful rendition in anime and manga of a true psychopath of the type made famous by Hannibal Lector. He is intelligent, insightful and focused, and also manipulative and ruthless. Most importantly, and the true hallmark of the psychopath, he seems to completely lack a conscience, not only towards others, but also towards himself. It's not sure whether he has no ability to understand what suffering is or whether he simply doesn't care about it, but what does seem clear is that he does not value what is commonly understood as happiness and well-being as something worth gaining or preserving. His personality, while certainly to an extent shaped by what happened to him in the course of his childhood, cannot be solely the result of this, and neither can each of the happenings be considered to leave an irreversible impression. At least in a latent sense he must have already have a psychosocial disorder and, if nothing else, the completely different way he has of coping with what happened when compared to Anna/Nina, whose reaction is more usual, goes a long way to showing this. It should not be forgotten that the total ordeal behind the Iron Curtain took place when he was still very young and an average child, while most likely suffering from some trauma (as Nina/Anna does), can generally still be brought up in and adapt to society: their thoughts and moral standards are still malleable enough. It should also be remembered that simple conditioning and brainwashing cannot breed intelligence and the ability to adapt to different modi of society and make use of them, in the way Johan does. What characterises Johan already at quite a young age, as far as we know, is the ability to see what other people want and make use of it. Partly through copycat behaviour when very young and partly through natural insight and intelligence he seems able to understand, at some instinctual level, how people react to desire and how to make them react in a certain fashion. Like quite a few psychopaths, he has become very skilled at making people like him and blend in, mostly because he really has no scruples or pangs of conscience. Perhaps he delights in some fashion in being able to influence others, but that doesn't seem to be his main drive. I think that noteDhero nailed his motivation when he said that all he does is from a need to discover. Partly, this is self-discovery, indeed. Being treated as his twin sister and suddenly finding himself as a number, there must have been a lack of a notion of self at an early age and perhaps a resulting need to find what defines him. Partly, this is discovery of what makes people tick, from which perhaps can be deducted what people (and he, as well) should be. Monster refers to Johans actions as 'experiments' at times and I believe that this is exactly what all he does is about. While it certainly is true that part of what Johan does is wiping out the past, I do not buy into the idea that this is his main reason for acting: his methods are simply far too roundabout for that. If he wanted to have everything destroyed, the easiest way to have done this was to bring it all out in the open: the political environment in Germany and the Czech Republic at the time in which Monster plays was, as Urasawa undoubtedly knew, ripe for such an action. If he wanted to have it done clandestinely, he wouldn't have involved so many different parties in so many different ways but simply use his considerable clout in the underworld. Instead, he meanders through different parts of society and influences decisions, finding out how and why people do what they do and how to goad them. As such, the cry for help (the 'Hilfe! Das Monstrum in mir wird explodieren!') I mainly see as a means to pull Tenma further along and see what it does. As noteDhero has noted, almost anything he did was scripted and it is clear that he took particular interest in Tenma, so it stands to reason that he sends a message directly to him. In the end, there is a curious lack of purpose to what Johan does apart from it serving as experiments. Even if we assume that the creation or destruction of a 'monster' might be the goal, there is very little of an answer to the purpose thereof. As kokuro has noted, rather little is known of this purpose because everything that is known about Johan is known through snippets of information found or deducted by others. Indeed, this makes him something of a mystery and thereby a good villain of the plot. And, as Anime-Destiny pointed out, this in itself means that there is rather little to be seen of the man behind the mystery. There is a lot that can with varying degrees of plausibility be inferred from what is known about his character, his state of mind and his patterns of thought, but the fact remains that he himself really builds no character. As aforementioned housemate pointed out, it makes him more of an interesting object of study than a grand literary character. What makes him tick? Why did he become what he became while his sister developed in a completely different manner? Urasawa himself most likely would be unable to provide an in-depth answer, as these things are simply unknowns (anyone who could provide such an answer would be looking at a Nobel Prize). Discussing Johan as a character for the purposes of this club in a sense means either discussing what little we have about the character directly, or discussing the character that stems from the imaginations and deductions of all who have had dealings with him, that is, a constructed character. Personally, I can find some charm in inducting a character that does not really exist, but I must admit I have something against characters that act without any stated purpose, as it marks the net result of whatever it is they're doing as something of little importance. |
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
| It's gonna' be a bit hard for me to put this into words... This guy, Sweetheart Johann, he's the antagonist, right? He's the guy everybody's trying to kill/neutralise, right? He's the one leading everybody else through half of Europe, right? Johann Liebert is not just the bad guy in Monster. He is THE bad guy. He is the absolute epitome of what people call a villain. The guy has no remorse, no conciense, nothing that holds him back. The dude has an agenda, and he's gonna complete that agenda, because he deels like it. Johann Liebert isn't so much a human being as a force of nature. A near mythical figure shrouded in mistery, who's every single appearence is a major event in itself. And everywhere he goes, people obey him. If he wants something, they will do as he pleases. And he's practically untouchable. Nobody can do anything against him. But what sets our sweetheart apart from every other villain ever concieved is that no method of trolling is alien to the guy. He'll get the elderly to give out handguns to people to kill eachother, he'll talk an entire orphanage into slaughter, and he will crosdress as his little sister to get information out of police officers. Furthermore, he's not even doing it for the lulz, he's doing it because he's getting revenge on the fucks that screwed up his little sister. And he doesn't give a damn about how he does it either. Have I been understood? There is nothing Johan Liebert can't do, nothing Johan Liebert won't do, and nothing that would seem unnatural for him to do. We don't get to know much about him, but that's exactly what makes him effective. Johan Liebert doesn't belong here because he's a character. He belongs here because he is the absolute pinnacle of antagonists in fiction. He's a guy with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and yet you still wouldn't mind dying by his hands. If he isn't entertainig then I don't know what is. And Monster IS entertainment, isn't it? |
| I am probably stupid because I don't get why does he have a purpose at all in being evil. Traumatized childhood? Does not connect. Even the most paranoid cuckoo has some meaning behind the madness. Johan has it all, except this. So... idk. Probably no. |
 Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| Ah been busy these days and totally missed out on the rest of the discussion. @ladyxzeus: Are you looking for his purpose and reasons behind his acts or are you looking for his goals? I just ask because I think there are enough reasons for him to act that way as though his goal might not be so clear at some point. I have a friend who works with criminals with mental issues and from what I hear from her, human beings are capable of convincing themselves to do even the most horrible crimes just for reasons that might seem too stupid to a regular/rational (more close to the norms of society) people. There was this guy who killed his aunt whom he hadn't seen for 14 years just for the mere reason that she had slapped him in the face when he'd been a kid. So I don't think Johan's reasons need to be too complicated although they kind of are. Along some other facts of Johan's life that we get to know about, his traumatized childhood is the most common among the real criminals so in my opinion it does connect properly. |
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| Taken very strictly, it is exactly this lack of purpose and goal that is what makes an act unequivocally 'evil'. To explain it by turning it about: look at the anti-hero and criminal as protagonists in stories. Their very existence is possible because a public is able to, in some fashion, connect with these persons and their motivations and goals. Yes, one might do horrible deeds, but often there is something of a goal or meaning and it is difficult to proclaim these people wholly 'evil'. The wholly insane, though? Now that's more difficult. In a sense, what kokuro mentions is very much true. Criminal acts and horrid deeds are often justified, even if most people have problems accepting the justification. (But then: what, objectively speaking, makes it so much worse to act from simple greed than from, say, revenge or trauma? In each case a simple desire forms the root.) Again, though, I cannot wholly agree with kokuro's take on what the purpose might be, as I still believe his plans to be more convoluted than necessary. To me, there are also too many experiments, seemingly instigated solely from a desire to 'see what happens'. Not that that's a bad thing, as it probably show more clearly just what makes Johan ticks. From the perspective of storytelling, there is a problem I have with exactly Johans apparent insanity. Dozer's remarks on how Johan is more of a perfect antagonist than a character hit the mark: as he says, it is exactly this lack of rhyme and reason which makes him 'evil'. Lacking all sense of conscience or remorse? Evil. Simple as that. Which calls forth the problem with insanity: it is too easy to consider it something akin to a disease, something over which the insane person has no control. Leaving aside the real world-effects thereof, within a story this, to quite an extent, tends to absolve the insane person from responsibility for his crimes and presents us with too easy a way out of moral dilemmas: he is insane, what did you expect? That said, it does make him less predictable, in which sense Johan truly delivers. |
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
| I think I got that his goal was just to kill the world and then see the outcome. Since he does not do anything at all, he only makes other people do it. However why? Nobody ever says something as simple as "because he wants to", which would be a valid justification anyway. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| @ santetjan: I do agree with your point about Johan doing experiments along the way. It is clearly mentioned several times that Johan is like a kid who's playing with the line of ants. He is curious to see what might happen once the norms are broken or if the conditions are changed. I once read about him as being the monster or the catalyst to bring out monsters hidden within other people and when he's playing the role of a catalyst he's also experimenting. However I don't think that performing experiments is Johan's main goal. There are some characters who might set experimenting as their goal (many "mad scientist" type of characters do that) but Johan doesn't seem to be like them. Johan's actions, to me, seem to go towards destruction. The monster is looking for a name, a place to belong, a character to be, (therefore gaining existence by being perceived by others) but each time he tries a new life style or a new name, he gets bored and hungry and ends up eating/ destroying that person. Although all the monster is doing is experimenting, his goal is not "the experiment" but to find a name and gain existence through it. Once he finds the name/ character he likes (Johan the prince) however, he stops experimenting and soothes his urge to destroy his new self and going back to being nameless by destroying the lives of whoever he gets in contact with. Here now his goal somewhat changes under the influence of his urge to destroy. As if now after all those efforts to gain existence and recognition he realizes that he can't change his nature, now he has a name but there is nobody to call him by that name hence him being nameless again. Now if we set Johan as the monster with no name, all he does is trying to find a new home/name and experimenting is a huge part of this process however once he decides who he wants to be his actions consist of more destruction and less experiments although he still might enjoy or rather be interested to see how people might react in different situations but his actions are not defined by this tendency in my opinion. Since no matter what answer he gets from his observations, the end result is still the same; He will destroy the subject of his observations one way or another. So to me his goal seemed to be erasing evidences of his existence to become nameless again and finally ceasing to exist (as he attempts to commit the perfect suicide by not leaving any memories of himself to live on). |
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| @kokuro: You're certainly right to think that the experiments aren't a goal in and of themselves, but neither are they to the mad scientist you refer to: in the end, all experiments are carried out in the hope of discovery and acquiring knowledge. To my mind, noteDhero summed up Johan's primary motivation quite well when he said that all he does is about (self-)discovery (my parentheses). Like I said before, I consider it highly likely that Johan doesn't have too strong a 'self' and, like the nameless monster, is looking into what humans do and can do - and what he can make them do. Utter destruction doesn't strike me as a main motivating factor, for the simple reason that he goes about in a rather ineffective manner. @ladyxzeus: Now that's just cheating. Not only because 'because I want to' in itself begs the question for justification of the desire, but also because every motivation can be reasoned back to exactly such a primary desire. One should always assume that a 'because I want to' (or, put more stringently, 'because I believe it to be the better option') lies at the foundation of every single motivation out there. |
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
| Oh, he is ressurrected. Do you know when you need just one little thing that you're not sure what it is to grow from "yeah, he's good" to "omg, perfect character"? Nurse uniform did it for me, I'm voting yes now. |
Waratte Oemashou Sore ha Chiisana Inori |
| I'll vote yes again. Just one more thing to mention in response to santetjan's last comment: Johan's way of destroying all he's been in contact with does not seem ineffective to me. Bare in mind that he's just recently decided to do this and before that he's been trying out all those new "selves" with different families and people. And of course somebody like him does not have a very strong self. The whole childhood trauma he experienced doubting his worth and always being dressed to look like somebody else , he's never had a strong self and that's why he tries to look for a new existence and obviously he fails. |
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| Johann and Monster comes out a few years later than it did, he doesn't work or gain his rightful noteriety. People can't see past the character designs to the character writing and development these days. Shame.....however the true cold calculating monster that lies beneath this innocent pretty boy exterior and which shines through during his key scenes absolutely makes Johann an unforgettable "villain". |
| @kokuro: Re-reading this discussion, I think we actually just might be talking about the same thing, but use a different name. To me, an urge to 'destruct' would mean to have as much destruction as possible, as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible: bash in skull, blow up train, release virulent disease. Johan is, however, far more roundabout, his wish generally seeming to be to try and set others to destroy themselves and each other, that is, to find out how and at what point others will be brought to overcome their inhibitions. Clearest case in point would be Tenma, as Johan seems to continuously tempt him to forgo his ingrained moral views. Sure, destruction is the end result of most of his plays, as Johan always wins, but to me it seems that 'how to bring others to destroy' is far more interesting to him than 'destruction' itself. |
| You do not beg the sun for mercy. |
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