Girls und Panzer Episode 9 Discussion

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

An article in the December 2012 issue of Dengeki Hobby Magazine (電撃ホビーマガジン / Dengeki Hobii Magajin) estimates that the Ooarai Girls' Academy school ship is 7600 m long. A November 20th tweet from the GaruPan producers says that the ship's hull is based on the Shoukaku class (翔鶴型) of Japanese aircraft carriers, both of which were 257.5 m long. So they scaled it up by a factor of 30.

By the way, the bridge of the girls' ship is based on a different Japanese aircraft carrier: the famous Akagi.

In other words, the mass of the girls' ship is 30 x 30 x 30 = 27000 times the mass of a real-life Japanese aircraft carrier. It would be expensive to maintain. It's no surprise that the government insists that Ooarai wins the Senshadou competition this year.

okanaganDec 12, 2012 4:25 AM

Dec 12, 2012 5:04 AM

#103

Aversa

Offline

Apr 2010

9577

nseika said:
What's the legal age for drinking in Soviet Russia ? ^^;

Do they even have a legal drinking age there?
I mean Russia is more tolerant then my country towards alcohol and my country doesn't have a drinking age.

Dec 12, 2012 5:55 AM

#104

huntx

Offline

Mar 2012

620

holyyyyyyyyy shit... I cant believe what i just saw. Never dull.

huntxDec 12, 2012 6:00 AM

Dec 12, 2012 6:42 AM

#105

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

zenjamibu said:
There's the youtube version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2dHpF0VSdE

Watching Mikako Takahashi did the Anko Dance makes me realize that the dance is pretty good exercise and the girls in the anime made it look so effortless. Thumbs up for Takahashi for trying it, and of course for Director Mizushima who not only wrote the song but came up with the dance choreography for this Anko Dance. Now he is looking for the next seiyuu who is willing to give it a try LOL.

Jyuu-niDesu said:
I've just completed 6 of the 7 chapters Girls Und Panzer: Little Army manga.
From there I can deduce that Maho actually is sympathetic towards the her little sister Miho and very close to her since childhood. She is like Miho, but much more calm and precise and focused, not to mention humorless and deadly

Well, among fans in Japan, Maho is now turned into a tsundere siscon character, somewhat similar to what happened for Homura in the Madoka anime, when she loved Miho so much that she would steal her clothes (of course panty is a main target, YuruYuri style) but could not bring herself to say it in front of Miho. All wild and crazy imagination from fans of course but I find it kind of funny. One pic that came out from this siscon Maho fantasy is this:

Magito said:
They said, back then Oorai had eight tanks.

Where did they say Ooarai used to have eight tanks?

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 6:59 AM

#106

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

symbv said:

Magito said:
They said, back then Oorai had eight tanks.

Where did they say Ooarai used to have eight tanks?

Not said, but it is certainly implied. The highest number shown on an Oorai tank in episode two was eight. This implied that they at least went up to that number. That it seems like they are going to find 3 additional tanks to the five they had originally found would suggest that they did have eight (Renault, Tiger, and someone said that the tank in the ED was something different from the Tiger).

No exact number has been given though. Neither Yuzu, Hana, or Anzu mentioned how many they used to have, and Anzu stated that the school had sold some tanks (I think they probably also sold better tanks to downgrade to cheaper tanks, which is why they have such an odd assortment of tanks). But right now 8 seems to be the right figure, which given the size of their carrier compared to the others would make a rough amount of sense.

Takuan_SohoDec 12, 2012 7:05 AM

Dec 12, 2012 7:29 AM

#107

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

nseika said:
Seeing this is the national tournament, those are actually Japanese.
There's also a 4koma series in Pixiv that keep a running joke that Daarjeling is just a Japanese girl pretending to be British (and her real name is Dajiri ^^; )

That does though raise the question as to why the Japanese participants are acting so "hetalia-esque" in their desire to imitate the country of their tanks. It also raises the question as to what the other countries are doing.

The first can be passed off as the Japanese passion for hyper-authenticity. One of the fun things about Japan is that they have so many people who have some sort of fetish: not just sexual mind you, but an intense passion for a single topic. I read a story in the WSJ about a Japanese man who passion for Spanish Tapas restaurants was so great that when he opened his restaurant he imported crappy Spanish wax napkins so his guess could have the exact experience such places have. That is the level of detail they bring to such things.

This passion creates what I call "hyper-authenticity", it is accurate but it is a bit too accurate. It isn't exactly stereotyping, which is a shallow two dimensional characterization, but achieves a similar feeling because the pasting together of so many details creates a pastiche that doesn't exist in the reality. Darjeeling is thus more British than the British, Kei more American than Americans, etc.

The second question though has me wondering. What is the rest of the world like? We are all assuming that there is still an America, still a Russia, etc. If this assumption is true, then what would it be like when the Japanese versions meet the originals?

But a thought that I have been having for a couple of weeks, but was really driven home when Okan posted the comment about warships and I replied was, what if this assumption is false? What if the reason Japan is copying other nationalities is because they are preserving them? And that this "international tournament" is something far more important. This would explain why Japan has invested such huge resources into "Academy Warships", why securing "laurels" is so deathly important, and why the entire civilization has senshadou, is willing to risk life and limb for it, and is focused so much on winning that tournament.

Just some random thoughts, I have no idea what could happen in the proposed 2nd season. I just like thinking about what could be because it forces me to pay more attention to what is to see if it does support this theory or not.

Dec 12, 2012 7:31 AM

#108

mutopis

Offline

Sep 2008

28

Books are gateways to new worlds...

Dec 12, 2012 7:37 AM

#109

SayuriUliana

Offline

Nov 2012

58

^ Well, the Little Army manga confirms that Germany as a country still exists - the character Emi was raised there. And I'm more inclined to believe that all the other countries exist too.

Dec 12, 2012 7:40 AM

#110

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

In Post #89 Takuan_Soho said:
Remember in episode 7, Saori said that the purpose of the "Academy Warships" were to train future world leaders and to strengthen independence, but she thought it was probably some bad politics.

This is extremely different from what Saori said in the subtitles that I saw. (commie) it is only vaguely similar.

I guess that the original Japanese dialog was very difficult to translate.

Can any Japanese-speaking fan explain more about what Saori was saying about the history of girls' academies being located on ships?

Dec 12, 2012 7:42 AM

#111

Offline

Nov 2012

95

symbv said:

Well, among fans in Japan, Maho is now turned into a tsundere siscon character, somewhat similar to what happened for Homura in the Madoka anime, when she loved Miho so much that she would steal her clothes (of course panty is a main target, YuruYuri style) but could not bring herself to say it in front of Miho. All wild and crazy imagination from fans of course but I find it kind of funny. One pic that came out from this siscon Maho fantasy is this:

mutopis said:

Haha, Serious and cold Maho stealing Miho pantsu, kinda hard to believe.And Maho suporting her sisters in the tournament.
But Maho does seriously care for a sister, more than their own mother actually. The only difference is that Maho holds the Nishizumi way of fighting, a bit like Blitzkrieg like fighting with less mercy, while Miho completely dose't.

Takuan_Soho said:

Not said, but it is certainly implied. The highest number shown on an Oorai tank in episode two was eight. This implied that they at least went up to that number. That it seems like they are going to find 3 additional tanks to the five they had originally found would suggest that they did have eight (Renault, Tiger, and someone said that the tank in the ED was something different from the Tiger)

Which part of episode 2? And I think the tank you are trying to say that't in the ED is the Type 3 Chi Nu. A Japanese Medium tank with enough firepower to go up againts M4 Shermans.

Jyuu-niDesuDec 12, 2012 7:45 AM

Dec 12, 2012 7:51 AM

#112

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Is Miho eating enough?

Miho's voice actress (Mai Fuchigami) just tweeted this:

渕上舞 ‏@fuchigami_mai
き、今日はサラダ食べたよ！(汗) RTコンビニ弁当を召し上がる場合は野菜サラダを必ず付け合わせとして召し上がって下さい。

Apparently a fan tweeted Mai, saying, "You should have something besides salad together with the bento box that you bought in the convenience store."

Reading between the lines, it seems that the fan is worried that Mai will starve.

Mai answered, "Today I ate salad."

But in addition, at the beginning she adds き
What does that mean?

At the end of her sentence she also adds (汗)
What does that mean?

okanaganDec 12, 2012 7:55 AM

Dec 12, 2012 7:59 AM

#113

SayuriUliana

Offline

Nov 2012

58

Jyuu-niDesu said:

Which part of episode 2? And I think the tank you are trying to say that't in the ED is the Type 3 Chi Nu. A Japanese Medium tank with enough firepower to go up againts M4 Shermans.

When you first see the tanks in episode 2, you see that the tanks all have Japanese characters on their side, and said characters are actually numbers. Don't remember the exact order, but IIRC the Type 89 was #1, and the Pz38(t) was #8.

Dec 12, 2012 8:00 AM

#114

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

Takuan_Soho said:

symbv said:

Magito said:
They said, back then Oorai had eight tanks.

Where did they say Ooarai used to have eight tanks?

Not said, but it is certainly implied. The highest number shown on an Oorai tank in episode two was eight. This implied that they at least went up to that number.

That is as far as the implication goes, but what Magito seemed to be saying is Ooarai had exactly 8 tanks "back then". I don't see any evidence that they do not have more. In fact since Anzu said that those tanks that were found were proabably "leftover" from sale off when the senshdo activity ended in Ooarai, I would say Ooarai once had a lot more tanks than 8.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 8:07 AM

#115

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

SayuriUliana said:
^ Well, the Little Army manga confirms that Germany as a country still exists - the character Emi was raised there. And I'm more inclined to believe that all the other countries exist too.

Very true, that would seem to be an argument against no "other country theory". But to date that is the only discordant bit of information out there, and if I really wanted to go hog wild, I could easily explain that into my "theory".

You are very probably right, and I am very probably wrong, it is probably the "hyper-authenticity" I mentioned, and Japan is spending the resources they are on these ships because Senshadou is this world's equivalent to war, and winning probably brings a ton of "war reparations" to the winning side.

This series is fun to theorize about, because I am very sure that the writer and director have already worked out these details. As the first in-house series this company has done, I am pretty sure that they hope it will turn into a flagship brand for them: that there is already 2 manga series, a ton of merchandising deals already in place, and a first rate team on board, point in this direction. If so, then they already have the world view in place, and will continue to slowly reveal it in upcoming episodes and the second season (which I think it is safe to say is in the bag). A good indication of this is that the final episode will be broadcast instead of stuffed on the blue ray (thank god). They are looking long term on this.

Dec 12, 2012 8:09 AM

#116

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
Miho's voice actress (Mai Fuchigami) just tweeted this:

渕上舞 ‏@fuchigami_mai
き、今日はサラダ食べたよ！(汗) RTコンビニ弁当を召し上がる場合は野菜サラダを必ず付け合わせとして召し上がって下さい。

Apparently a fan tweeted Mai, saying, "You should have something besides salad together with the bento box that you bought in the convenience store."

Reading between the lines, it seems that the fan is worried that Mai will starve.

No, the fan just advised that when one took the lunch box from convenience store, one should always have veggie salad as well. I guess it is for healthy eating purpose. The fan's concern is healthy eating, not that she may be starving.

okanagan said:

But in addition, at the beginning she adds き
What does that mean?

Ki き as in the first word of Kyou (きょう/今日). It is a way to simulate stuttering speech online, just like "To..Today I..." in English.

okanagan said:
At the end of her sentence she also adds (汗)
What does that mean?

To simulate "sweating" as 汗 means sweat. So it is her attempt to give a sweating face to what she is saying, like she is sweating because she feels a bit guilty that her life habit (or the impression of it) may be giving concern to her fans.

symbvDec 12, 2012 8:14 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 8:14 AM

#117

zenjamibu

Offline

May 2012

381

No. 1 (壱) – Type 89
No. 2 (弐) – Tiger (P)
No. 3 (参) – Type 3 Chi-Nu(?)
No. 4 (四) – M3 Lee
No. 5 (五) – B1 Bis
No. 6 (六) – Panzer IV
No. 7 (七) – Stug III
No. 8 (八) – 38(t)

Dec 12, 2012 8:15 AM

#118

bippo

Offline

Sep 2012

846

^ Thanks!
I've been searching for this in 2ch but the Panzer threads there move too fast.

Dec 12, 2012 8:16 AM

#119

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Takuan_Soho wrote:
Senshadou is this world's equivalent to war,

Interesting !

In our real world, I suggest that one representative from each of the major ( i.e. nuclear-armed ) powers in the world (USA, China, Russia) should get together in a room. They play one round of rock scissors paper.

The winner rules the world. They write the constitution. Everybody else has to go along with it.

Nuclear weapons, tanks, guns, etc. are all used as necessary only to quell local uprisings against the global government. So there are no longer soldiers. There are only policemen.

Does anybody have a better idea ?

Dec 12, 2012 8:24 AM

#120

Offline

Nov 2012

95

zenjamibu said:
No. 1 (壱) – Type 89
No. 2 (弐) – Tiger (P)
No. 3 (参) – Type 3 Chi-Nu(?)
No. 4 (四) – M3 Lee
No. 5 (五) – B1 Bis
No. 6 (六) – Panzer IV
No. 7 (七) – Stug III
No. 8 (八) – 38(t)

bippo said:
^ Thanks!
I've been searching for this in 2ch but the Panzer threads there move too fast.

I tried going into 2ch.....But there are just too many threats, either that or I'am confused

Dec 12, 2012 8:24 AM

#121

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

mutopis said:

Jyuu-niDesu said:
Haha, Serious and cold Maho stealing Miho pantsu, kinda hard to believe.And Maho suporting her sisters in the tournament.

There are actually a bunch of fan creation of siscon Maho doing the round in places like 2ch.Here are two more, one purports to show what Maho was really doing when she was in the Ooarai vs Saunders match, the other is Maho's reaction when her mom declared she did not want Miho to be her daughter any more:

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 8:27 AM

#122

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

Jyuu-niDesu said:
Which part of episode 2? And I think the tank you are trying to say that't in the ED is the Type 3 Chi Nu. A Japanese Medium tank with enough firepower to go up againts M4 Shermans.

Anytime they show the whole tank before the paint jobs. The white characters on the tank are Japanese numbers. The 38(t) for instance has the character 八 on the side of the turret. That is eight.

The M3 Lee is four.四
The Stug is seven: 七
The Panzer is six: 六
The Type 89 is the old version of one, it has been replaced by 一in most cases, but you can still see it on the currency.

The Rennault in episode 7 is 5: 五
The Tiger is the archaic version (similar to the Type 89) 2.

So that leaves at least the number 3 tank out there (which have the archaic number for 3 on it).

This was a great example of "foreshadowing" by the staff. In that we could have deduced more tanks from this point on, but we only understood the real importance of the numbers 5 episodes later. This is why I know they put a lot of thought into this series before making it.

Edit: should have known there was someone out there who had already done the legwork! One of the many reasons I love this thread.

Takuan_SohoDec 12, 2012 8:31 AM

Dec 12, 2012 8:36 AM

#123

Offline

Nov 2012

95

symbv said:

mutopis said:

Jyuu-niDesu said:
Haha, Serious and cold Maho stealing Miho pantsu, kinda hard to believe.And Maho suporting her sisters in the tournament.

There are actually a bunch of fan creation of siscon Maho doing the round in places like 2ch.Here are two more, one purports to show what Maho was really doing when she was in the Ooarai vs Saunders match, the other is Maho's reaction when her mom declared she did not want Miho to be her daughter any more:

Great and epic little comics. But I have to slowly type out the Japanese words in Google Translate to find out more [My Japanese is at baby level]

Edit: I just notice they also change the background of the Nishizumi wall from a WW1 tank to a Gundam?

Jyuu-niDesuDec 12, 2012 8:40 AM

Dec 12, 2012 8:37 AM

#124

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Takuan_Soho:
The Type 89 is the old version of one, it has been replaced by 一

I am glad that you think so!

The next time we meet in Japan, I'll give you $100 cash.

Then you write me a check for $100 and give it to me.

That's fair ! Right ?

But just before I deposit the check into the ATM I will change your "1" into a "3". That is how bad a guy I am !

Dec 12, 2012 8:40 AM

#125

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

Takuan_Soho said:
Senshadou is this world's equivalent to war

The theory is innovative and interesting, but this goes against the concept of senshado as a way for peace not war according to what I read from staff's interview. The concept is that tanks became senshado because tanks have been deemed to have brought misery to people via its use in war. It became a sports for women because it is believed that men, who always operated tanks in the past, were a barbarous and uncivilized match with tanks. So tanks were used in senshado instead as a female sports to bring out the "virtues in female". And Miho also said Senshadou is not war. I don't see how "ton of war reparations" comes into picture.

I would say that those huge carrier ships are just a way to give us a hint that it is time for us to suspend our disbelief for some of the details in the anime. The ship is just a huge floating school-town, that's it. The theme of school being closed down because of declining student population is also brought up in anime like Tari Tari because it is really a much talked about topic in Japan as school after school was closed down and merged because of the population decrease in recent years. I think the staff came up with this ship idea so that it makes it easier to shift the team to different tournament location (including the deep north) with the whole school and community together. It will not be realistic to use a huge ship anyway but my guess it is still better than a huge vehicle or a huge airship. Besides, there may be some in the staff that who just wanted to draw ships (and its interior like the search for additional tanks or the Saunders briefing scene).

symbvDec 12, 2012 8:45 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 8:41 AM

#126

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

okanagan said:
This is extremely different from what Saori said in the subtitles that I saw. (commie) it is only vaguely similar.

I guess that the original Japanese dialog was very difficult to translate.

Can any Japanese-speaking fan explain more about what Saori was saying about the history of girls' academies being located on ships?

My listening comprehension frankly sucks, Symbv would be the best person to ask, but I am pretty sure that is the gist of what she said.

As for Commie, I stopped using them in 3 when I noticed that they completely screwed up Ami's discussion with Miho (they confused her using Nishizumi-san to mean Miho instead of her mother). I think they occasionally translate a bit too fast for their own good.

Dec 12, 2012 9:01 AM

#127

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Takuan_Soho:
My listening comprehension frankly sucks, Symbv would be the best person to ask,

Symbv is always working so hard to help us ! There must be some Japanese fans who are reading this thread but not posting. Please give us a hand ! よろしく！

Dec 12, 2012 9:03 AM

#128

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

symbv said:

I should have said "replace war" to make my point. Using Senshado as a means of "counting coup" (American Plains Indian concept where being able to "touch" the enemy without harming him was even more prestigious than killing him), would still be in keeping with the peaceful intent of the staff. It is a friendly way for nations to compete.

The "war reparations" was not to be taken too seriously (why I put it in quotes), but I do think there could be some economic benefit to winning because the Japanese government is spending a fortune on Senshadou (so much that they will repair damaged buildings and Ami felt no issue pancaking the principal's car just to make an entrance), so perhaps this is how they settle trade disputes. But your explanation is probably more accurate: countries spend a fortune on winning Olympic medals, so perhaps that is all there is too it.

While your explanation for the "academy warships" could be very true, the thing that counters it is that they specifically decided to use the character for "warship" instead of the character of "ship". This does beg the question as to "why". This staff has shown a great attention to detail, so they selected that Kanji for a reason. What reason? Who knows.

But I should probably temper my speculations, this animation has too date purposely avoided bringing in anything to darken the mood. Mako's grandmother was perfectly fine, Miho did not go into berserk mode and used the Ankou Dance to rally the troops. So to think that they would bring in such heavy topics is probably wrong.

Still, I am having fun doing it, I love to have people point out why I could be wrong, it helps to improve my understanding of things and I hope sparks similar interest in other people.

Dec 12, 2012 9:28 AM

#129

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Takuan_Soho wrote:
"counting coup" (American Plains Indian concept where being able to "touch" the enemy without harming him was even more prestigious than killing him),

Didn't know that phrase. It sounds like a great way of describing a much broader concept in our modern world. Think of all the things that happened between the Soviet Union and the West that did not involve nuclear weapons. It is a very long list. "Counting coup" could, to my mind, apply to every single one of them.

People talk about the "space race". That is one good example.

Also, think of all that stuff that the submarines were doing. It is exactly what you describe.

Or the incursions by spy planes, such as the Hainan incident.

Even the Korean and Vietnam conflicts would fall into this category. Horrible to say. But it didn't come to exchange of thermonuclear weapons.

Any time you don't detonate an H-bomb you are basically play-fighting. That is the horrific reality of the world in which we live.

Note that I am very specifically saying "thermonuclear" and "H-bomb". I am NOT talking about those 10 kiloton bombs that small countries can build. (A-bombs) Up until today, there is only a very small group of countries with H-bombs as well as delivery systems. If there are any H-bomb experts out there, please forgive me for my careless use of these terms, but I don't want to get unnecessarily technical.

POSSIBLY what we are seeing in GaruPan is precisely this. But to know, we have to understand for sure whether these other teams are coming from different countries.

There was also quite a lot of "counting coup" prior to World War II.

Great phrase ! I'll keep using it !

okanaganDec 12, 2012 9:33 AM

Dec 12, 2012 9:31 AM

#130

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

^ I would hesitate to place any role in world politics for senshadou because to do so will only mean that Miho's insight of Senshadou should be something fun to do with friends is unrealistic and naive. I would prefer the world of GirlPan not going that way. I'd rather Senshadou is just like another school sports that is not linked to something major like running a country etc.

Takuan_Soho said:
While your explanation for the "academy warships" could be very true, the thing that counters it is that they specifically decided to use the character for "warship" instead of the character of "ship". This does beg the question as to "why". This staff has shown a great attention to detail, so they selected that Kanji for a reason. What reason? Who knows.

As I said, some of the staff may just want to draw warship, and if they like it so much of course they would put a lot of effort into the details. They even went to visit real cruiser just to be able to draw those ship interior scenes like the Saunder briefing scene. Besides it is not as if the word 艦 is used all the time. The students used the kanji for ship 船 all the time (like the scene when they were searching for additional ships). My take is that they use 艦 only because the ship looks like an aircraft carrier and since an aircraft carrier uses the word 艦, it is how the ship is described, but I doubt it is a real warship capable of waging war.

symbvDec 12, 2012 10:28 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 9:38 AM

#131

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Symbv wrote:
I would hesitate to place any role in world politics for senshadou because to do so will only mean that Miho's insight of Senshadou should be something fun to do with friends . . .

But any kind of international sport activity falls EXACTLY into Takuan_Soho's general concept of "counting coup".

Tennis, ice skating, 仙道, hockey, fencing, boxing, diving, ping pong, whatever . . .

So Senshadou would be just another perfect example . . .

okanaganDec 12, 2012 9:43 AM

Dec 12, 2012 9:39 AM

#132

Cratex

めんどくさい

Offline

Sep 2011

2874

Takuan_Soho said:
You are very probably right, and I am very probably wrong, it is probably the "hyper-authenticity" I mentioned, and Japan is spending the resources they are on these ships because Senshadou is this world's equivalent to war, and winning probably brings a ton of "war reparations" to the winning side.

As in from the movie "Rollerball" (1975 version) - "Game? This wasn't meant to be a game. NEVER. "

symbv said:
...it is believed that men, who always operated tanks in the past, were a barbarous and uncivilized match with tanks.

I don't know, that seems about right to me ;)

Dec 12, 2012 9:45 AM

#133

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
In Post #89 Takuan_Soho said:
Remember in episode 7, Saori said that the purpose of the "Academy Warships" were to train future world leaders and to strengthen independence, but she thought it was probably some bad politics.This is extremely different from what Saori said in the subtitles that I saw. (commie) it is only vaguely similar.

okanagan said:
Takuan_Soho:
My listening comprehension frankly sucks, Symbv would be the best person to ask,Symbv is always working so hard to help us ! There must be some Japanese fans who are reading this thread but not posting. Please give us a hand ! よろしく！

OK, I have just watched the relevant part of Ep.7 again. I would say that while it is not entirely wrong to say what Saori said was about "training future world leaders" I think that is an interpretation that may have been taken a bit far and thus may cause a misunderstanding that the school is an elite school to train world leaders like future president/prime-minister.What Saori said was basically repeating what she had heard, that the ship was built by the school with the purpose of training people who can shine on a world stage (my interpretation: the travel around of the ship can make it happen easier) and fostering the student's sense of self-dependence and independence (well, the ship is just like a huge dormitory so of course this makes sense).

Also I do not see where Saori said it was probably some bad politics. If anything, the first year student followed Saori by saying "So this is part of the scope for the non-discrimination education policy", which does not sound disproving to me. It also makes it clear that the school is not an elite school like one to train future world leaders.

symbvDec 12, 2012 10:30 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 9:47 AM

#134

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

symbv said:
but I doubt it is a real warship capable of waging war.

There is no doubt about that. The places where the aa guns used to be are now observation desks. When I replied to Okan about these ships being "warships", my point was that the schools themselves were considered the "warships" i.e. they competed against other schools, not that the ships were actual warships (for one they are just too big and expensive a target).

As for the kids, that very well could be the point of the manga. Nishizumi's mother definitely treats Senshadou as "war" where "winning is everything" and "no sacrifice is too great". So this could very well be a situation where the adults are trapped in the old way of thinking, but the kids see it as something else. Note that when Saori gave the explanation in episode 7 as for why they were on the ship, she gave the "official" explanation, and then added her personal explanation that it was probably personal politics.

If this is the case, then the great conflict that Miho will have to find a resolution to would be at "what price victory". Little Army Manga shows that what started her disliking Senshadou was that her sister was perfectly willing to "gun down" a helpless foe, and Miho lost last year's competition because she put the lives of her comrades above that of the school winning. It is clear though that her Mother did not like this and this is where the breach about being disowned first started.

Miho's attitude during the first three rounds could be explained that she didn't care about winning, but about having fun. This is why she gave into her team's desire to charge in. She wasn't being wishy washy (as some of claimed), but she was applying a different standard. But now the adults are making it that she HAS to win to save the school. So how is she going to resolve those two very opposing realities? Episode 12 will probably have this very situation: Miho being forced between saving a comrade and winning the battle.

I have no doubt that the animation team wants to show a peaceful resolution to this conflict, and that the kids view (in the form of Miho) of senshado as an enjoyable past time and not as "alternative war" will triumph over the adults version (in the form of Nishizumi herself), but how is up to the staff to figure out.

Edit: I want to again point out that I enjoy going on about a topic to increasingly trivial and what many others consider a pointless extreme. So please let me know if I am taking things too far. For me this is fun, and I don't take my theories too seriously, but I have often been told in the real world that I do need to notch it down 90%, so I will never take a "could you please drop it" as a personal rebuke :-)

Edit 2: just read Symbv's translation of episode 7, that would strike my comments about what Saori said, however it still does affirm my point that adults take this more seriously than the kids.

Takuan_SohoDec 12, 2012 9:54 AM

Dec 12, 2012 9:48 AM

#135

Cratex

めんどくさい

Offline

Sep 2011

2874

One other note about the KV-2 (and thanks to the fellow above he emphasized the very slow turret traverse, I didn't get around to saying it myself), the Soviets built the KV-2 in response to one of the things they learned from the Winter War with Finland in that they needed a direct fire bunker buster. They learned from the Germans that the KV-2 simply wasn't a solution to any problem and stopped production very quickly in 1941. The 'replacements' would be the SU 122 and SU 152, much better vehicles that were able to perform well as assault guns and still mix it up with German armor under the right conditions.

Dec 12, 2012 9:51 AM

#136

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
Symbv wrote:
I would hesitate to place any role in world politics for senshadou because to do so will only mean that Miho's insight of Senshadou should be something fun to do with friends . . .But any kind of international sport activity falls EXACTLY into Takuan_Soho's general concept of "counting coup".

Tennis, ice skating, 仙道, hockey, fencing, boxing, diving, ping pong, whatever . . .

So Senshadou would be just another perfect example . . .

NO!!!!!

Why do we want to bring politics into this anime? Why should we want sports to be an instrument of power play to alter the power balance of one country versus another??? Why can't we keep the high school girls out of this? If there is a professional sports league of senshado, yes I will say that in this adult world perhaps money and politics (and exploitation by governments) will be inevitable. But I damn dislike the notion that some sports played by a bunch of school girls can reach such level. Do we see Naginata game go to that level of "counting coup" in world politics?? Your examples of other kind of international sport activity is also perfect example are quite off in this regard too. (and I hope you were joking when you included 仙道 as one of the examples).

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 9:56 AM

#137

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Takuan_Soho wrote:
I have often been told in the real world that I do need to notch it down 90%, . . .

Increase by 5% please !

Dec 12, 2012 9:59 AM

#138

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Symbv wrote:
Why can't we keep the high school girls out of this?

There are some countries close to you that don't. Watch the Olympics more closely next time.

Oh . . . wait . . . I mean to write "junior high school girls".

(and I hope you were joking when you included 仙道 as one of the examples).

It was an uninformed comment since I don't know the international Olympic rules for 仙道. But in principle I can't see why not. Have you ever watched biathalon?

But I damn dislike the notion that some sports played by a bunch of school girls can reach such level.

That is why it works best if you take the girls away from their parents when they are still elementary school age. Then train them until they are teenagers.

Do we see Naginata game go to that level of "counting coup" in world politics??

Naginata looks quite a lot like Fencing to me. And Fencing is an olympic sport with all of the associated politics. So . . . yeah . . . counting coup . . .

Why do we want to bring politics into this anime? Why should we want sports to be an instrument of power play to alter the power balance of one country versus another???

. . . better girls riding tanks than 30 megaton H bombs . . .

okanaganDec 12, 2012 10:12 AM

Dec 12, 2012 9:59 AM

#139

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

Takuan_Soho said:
Note that when Saori gave the explanation in episode 7 as for why they were on the ship, she gave the "official" explanation, and then added her personal explanation that it was probably personal politics.

Her personal explanation? I did not hear that. She gave the explanations, and then someone else followed by saying it was part of the education policy. I did not hear anything about Saori's personal explanation or personal politics.

Takuan_Soho said:
Edit: I want to again point out that I enjoy going on about a topic to increasingly trivial and what many others consider a pointless extreme. So please let me know if I am taking things too far. For me this is fun, and I don't take my theories too seriously, but I have often been told in the real world that I do need to notch it down 90%, so I will never take a "could you please drop it" as a personal rebuke :-)

The speculation about how the governments got the fund to build such huge ships and how senshadou may play a role in global politics is way too drill-down and far-off for me. Just my personal opinion.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 10:01 AM

#140

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
Why can't we keep the high school girls out of this?

There are some countries close to you that don't. Watch the Olympics more closely next time.

Oh come on, I watch the olympics REALLY CLOSELY, right down to the curling match in winter olympics. You think I don't know some countries exploit young girls in sports for their own gain? Your remark sounds condescending to me. Do you want to start an argument??? If I want to watch real world politics at play I can watch the news program at any time. I just don't think international power politics is the point for this anime! Besides, whether those pursuit of glory in Olympics amounts to a "counting coup" is much in doubt though. For those countries, gaining vanity and boosting rights, yes, but changing power balance like "counting coup"? Nah.

symbvDec 12, 2012 10:12 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 10:02 AM

#141

Cratex

めんどくさい

Offline

Sep 2011

2874

My personal opinion, as of right now, is that this tank sport is very, very important to certain elite circles in terms of "Face" and "Tradition", important to the general population as entertainment and local "pride" much as is soccer and US football, and thus commands a substantial influence on the flow of money and possible some careers. But I don't yet see any evidence of this tank sport having an impact politically in this make believe world beyond possibly such things as election campaigns being run on, and won or lost on, such things as tax levies / use of public funds for new stadiums are in our world and the prestige the wealthy may gain from sponsorships.

Dec 12, 2012 10:07 AM

#142

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
(and I hope you were joking when you included 仙道 as one of the examples).
It was an uninformed comment since I don't know the international Olympic rules for 仙道. But in principle I can't see why not. Have you ever watched biathalon?

My question: Do you know what is 仙道?

okanagan said:
But I damn dislike the notion that some sports played by a bunch of school girls can reach such level.
That is why it works best if you take the girls away from their parents when they are still elementary school age. Then train them until they are teenagers.

I don't see your point in the context of this anime. If you try to insinuate that international politics is really the point of building those huge school ship, then I guess there is not much I would say besides that I absolutely cannot agree with such view and it is best that we agree that we disagree over what the purpose of this anime is for.

symbvDec 12, 2012 10:11 AM

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 10:14 AM

#143

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
Do we see Naginata game go to that level of "counting coup" in world politics?? Naginata looks quite a lot like Fencing to me. And Fencing is an olympic sport with all of the associated politics. So . . . yeah . . . counting coup . . .

Where does Counting Coup come in for fencing? How much world politics and power balance is affected by Fencing?? The fact that fencing has lots of politics in it is not the same as actual global politics being affected by fencing.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 10:15 AM

#144

Offline

Nov 2012

95

Damn, this threat is going from Garupan, an anime, to what seems like politics and debates.
Anyway, about the fact weather those school-carrier can fight. Ooarai is based on a World War 2 Carrier which obviously meant for launching fighter airplanes. But since the deck is taken up by towns and there is no Airport in sight [boosted by the fact that the instructor has to be send down via parachute]. Oaorai carrier is not design for ship combat.

However, I do spot the forward AA gun in placed on the Ooarai. In the original Shokaku class ships, this would be 127mm Dual purpose gun placed in the latter years of the war. But since Ooarai is a scaled up version of the Shokaku, these guns could easily be a 18in from the Yamato class battleship.
.
.Some interesting fact.

Dec 12, 2012 10:19 AM

#145

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Symbv wrote:
My question: Do you know what is 仙道?

No. But I don't know what long jump is either. If you make up a committee with one member from each country in the world then they will define the rules, including how the judges are appointed, etc. Lots of international politics is involved.

Some countries would push hard for 仙道 to become an olympic sport, I am sure !

okanaganDec 12, 2012 10:22 AM

Dec 12, 2012 10:23 AM

#146

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

Jyuu-niDesu said:
Anyway, about the fact weather those school-carrier can fight. Ooarai is based on a World War 2 Carrier which obviously meant for launching fighter airplanes. But since the deck is taken up by towns and there is no Airport in sight [boosted by the fact that the instructor has to be send down via parachute]. Oaorai carrier is not design for ship combat.

We should never forget that those ships are much much bigger than any real carrier too. So it is just the external form that is looking like an aircraft carrier but most likely it was never built to function like a real aircraft carrier. This is also why I have my doubt why someone wrote that the Ooarai is an old ship -- we can see the ship was based on a WWII carrier appearance instead of a modern carrier but that is no evidence that the ship was built in an older time than other school-ships.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 10:25 AM

#147

Offline

Sep 2012

10121

okanagan said:
Symbv wrote:
My question: Do you know what is 仙道? No. But I don't know what long jump is either. If you make up a committee with one member from each country in the world then they will define the rules, including how the judges are appointed, etc. Lots of international politics is involved.
Some countries would push hard for 仙道 to become an olympic sport, I am sure !

仙道 is clearly meant as a joke by the staff. If you seriously want to draw even this into international politics, then I am done talking to you, as this is really becoming a pointless thing for me to go further.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Dec 12, 2012 10:25 AM

#148

Offline

Oct 2012

1917

Symbv wrote:
Your remark sounds condescending to me. Do you want to start an argument???

No. Sorry. Poor wording.

okanaganDec 12, 2012 10:28 AM

Dec 12, 2012 10:31 AM

#149

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

Jyuu-niDesu said:
But since the deck is taken up by towns and there is no Airport in sight [boosted by the fact that the instructor has to be send down via parachute]. Oaorai carrier is not design for ship combat.

However, I do spot the forward AA gun in placed on the Ooarai. In the original Shokaku class ships, this would be 127mm Dual purpose gun placed in the latter years of the war. But since Ooarai is a scaled up version of the Shokaku, these guns could easily be a 18in from the Yamato class battleship.

Actually the scale tricked you. Though most of the deck is taken up by the town, in episode 1 when they do the pull back there is quite clearly (er, if you are obsessed like me and pause it that is :-) a runway on the left side of the ship, takes up the middle third of that side of the ship.

I actually paid close attention to those AA placements after watching the first episode. In the second episode Miho is standing on one of them and it is quite clear that they are scenic observation decks.

I have to agree more with Symbv, why ruin a fun show by bringing politics into it. So I doubt they will do so overtly. Symbolically though is a different matter.

We should probably step away from the "alternative to war" motif and just focus on the idea of parents taking sports a tad too seriously, where as kids usually play sports for fun. When you go to a pop warner football game (here in the US, I imagine Hockey in Canada is the same), it isn't the kids who are screaming and yelling at the ref or making a big deal about losing, its the parents. This is probably the point of the animation. Of course it is easy to see that for many people, particularly in international competition, they view it as "akin to war" than a good nature competition.

Dec 12, 2012 10:36 AM

#150